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Koibu0
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States513 Posts
June 05 2013 14:48 GMT
#1601
This is the most common question I get, so forgive me if I'm brief in my answer for I have answered it many times. In my experience, players pick bards thinking they'll be fun, and become disenchanted with them around level 3 or 4. By the time they get a few more levels in, they really dislike their character as they do not excel at anything, and are always playing 2nd fiddle to the rest of their party. They do add RP options, but no more than any other class. My disallowing of bards is simply to prevent players for doing something that in my experience, has never worked and has led to player dissatisfaction.
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
June 05 2013 21:26 GMT
#1602
On June 05 2013 23:48 Koibu0 wrote:
This is the most common question I get, so forgive me if I'm brief in my answer for I have answered it many times. In my experience, players pick bards thinking they'll be fun, and become disenchanted with them around level 3 or 4. By the time they get a few more levels in, they really dislike their character as they do not excel at anything, and are always playing 2nd fiddle to the rest of their party. They do add RP options, but no more than any other class. My disallowing of bards is simply to prevent players for doing something that in my experience, has never worked and has led to player dissatisfaction.

I love playing bards so much. xD i play bards more than any class in 2nd edition. bard > fighter > thief/cleric multiclass.
xPliCt
Profile Joined December 2010
Germany143 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-06 13:02:10
June 06 2013 13:00 GMT
#1603
On June 06 2013 06:26 PrinceXizor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2013 23:48 Koibu0 wrote:
This is the most common question I get, so forgive me if I'm brief in my answer for I have answered it many times. In my experience, players pick bards thinking they'll be fun, and become disenchanted with them around level 3 or 4. By the time they get a few more levels in, they really dislike their character as they do not excel at anything, and are always playing 2nd fiddle to the rest of their party. They do add RP options, but no more than any other class. My disallowing of bards is simply to prevent players for doing something that in my experience, has never worked and has led to player dissatisfaction.

I love playing bards so much. xD i play bards more than any class in 2nd edition. bard > fighter > thief/cleric multiclass.


The problem with bards is, that every character can copy a bards roleplaying potential (singing fighter - why not, womanizer cleric - np in most cases) but there is no category where a bard can compete with another class mechanicswise. A bard is just an allrounder and allrounder suck in DnD cause you will always be outshined by another character and this just sucks.

I think the only good use for a bard was presented in The Gamers 2 Movie^^

But I have a question about Druids^^ What was the problem with them in 2nd Edition? Ich know them from 3.5 and they kick ass (combination of healer, with good all around spells and fighting abilites)
GoldenH
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
1115 Posts
June 06 2013 14:55 GMT
#1604
Eh, bards are just multiclass fighter/wizards with some fluff about music. Arcane Clerics, if you will.

But I guess some people just hate bards.
"(Dudes are) not going to say "Buy this game — I cried at the end". (...) I suppose the secret is to find a game that makes you shoot eight million fuckin' dudes and then cry about how awesome it is to shoot eight million fuckin' dudes." - Tim Rogers
Koibu0
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States513 Posts
June 06 2013 20:57 GMT
#1605
Druids (in 2nd) have this whole hierarchy thing where you advance in rank with the rest of the druids and that's really messy, boring, and requires whatever the campaign you're in to have a druid focus to it - where the party must go into the druid's lands to do XYZ so he can attain the next rank. blah.

Also, they don't really get anything more useful than a normal cleric.

Just make a cleric that is into nature, has a nature god, and hangs out in the woods. Call his order "Druids" and there you go.

I'm just talking about the class defined as "Druid". The concepts behind the modern idea of "druid" are fine. Just the mechanics of the 2nd edition druid are lame.
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
June 06 2013 22:21 GMT
#1606
On June 07 2013 05:57 Koibu0 wrote:
Druids (in 2nd) have this whole hierarchy thing where you advance in rank with the rest of the druids and that's really messy, boring, and requires whatever the campaign you're in to have a druid focus to it - where the party must go into the druid's lands to do XYZ so he can attain the next rank. blah.

Also, they don't really get anything more useful than a normal cleric.

Just make a cleric that is into nature, has a nature god, and hangs out in the woods. Call his order "Druids" and there you go.

I'm just talking about the class defined as "Druid". The concepts behind the modern idea of "druid" are fine. Just the mechanics of the 2nd edition druid are lame.

The level up issue is the only issue i see with druid. its damn annoying. But i love bards T_T. if you DM'd a group of mine i'd just say every time i complain about being a bard i'll buy you guys beer/pizza, and i think you'd let me be a bard. lol
xPliCt
Profile Joined December 2010
Germany143 Posts
June 07 2013 08:28 GMT
#1607
These addional rankings for specific classes suck in every system. Don't know how anybody could think this is a good and playable idea :/

Well imho a druid cant really be copied by a cleric, The shapechanging stuff is pretty unique and can make this caster a really good fighter (at least in 3.5)
Koibu0
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States513 Posts
June 07 2013 18:49 GMT
#1608
Yes. I'm talking ONLY about 2nd edition. ONLY 2nd.
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
June 07 2013 20:02 GMT
#1609
On June 08 2013 03:49 Koibu0 wrote:
Yes. I'm talking ONLY about 2nd edition. ONLY 2nd.

2nd edition druids are really cool for the languages bonuses from swamp and mountain druids, and for lost druids. but outside of those really cool things the arbitrary circle requirements suck
TheUltraViolent
Profile Joined January 2012
United States45 Posts
June 08 2013 01:41 GMT
#1610
You asked about druids. He said he doesn't like druids. You keep bugging him about druids. o.o

Let it go man.
Zealos
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United Kingdom3576 Posts
June 08 2013 02:12 GMT
#1611
DRUIDZZZZZZZZZ PLSSSSSS
On the internet if you disagree with or dislike something you're angry and taking it too seriously. == Join TLMafia !
quirinus
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Croatia2489 Posts
June 08 2013 07:39 GMT
#1612
I finally got some time and motivation to write what I always wanted. A script that filters out links from chat logs. I'm using mIRC to connect to twitch to log the chat and then I use the script to get links from the log file.

Now I'll be able to just watch RollPlay and relax, without having to click on everything all the time to archive it. :D

Can't wait for the next session/episode.
All candles lit within him, and there was purity. | First auto-promoted BW LP editor.
Hitch-22
Profile Blog Joined February 2013
Canada753 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-08 20:05:59
June 08 2013 19:56 GMT
#1613
Questions about last hour (pours one out)
+ Show Spoiler +
Is it possible to save tugabutt? I mean hypothetically Dalamar can fucking warp through space and they just slayed a dragon for him so they can maybe say "We'll be in your debt" or some shit.

I dunno but Tugabutt made the show, pouring one out... This is more devastating then Ned Stark dying in GoT ffs and that was devastating. I just feel like Oris and Dalamar have the power to do shit like this but the question is what is the reprecussions of doing so? I mean Dalamar hates Tugabutt t.t

I dunno, I'm pretty upset so I can't think, I just poured on out for the best character to ever be in any genre of anything;

Fucking Jexel.

Also I knew that slut betrayed them when they went to the "HQ" and found a fucking empty cave and a giant strolling at them. I wish they were less trusting I mean the leader giant knew everything about livinpink so it makes sense he'd know her best friend.

Also like fucking GoT (best example I can think of) has a guy who was resurrected 6 fucking times and we all go along and say "yeah magic in a magic world" so it's not crazy)

I just hope Neil finds the balance between keeping it realistic (with regards to the world) and punishable.

THIS SUCK! : ( Sad fucking panda



Everyone watch this
"We all let our sword do the talking for us once in awhile I guess" - Bregor, the legendary critical striker and critical misser who triple crits 2 horses with 1 arrow but lands 3 1's in a row
GoldenH
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
1115 Posts
June 08 2013 20:19 GMT
#1614
+ Show Spoiler +
It really depends on how resurrection works in their world. He's made changes to so much else, I wouldn't be surprised if he could be resurrected. However I doubt the party has enough gold at this point to pay for it.

If it were my game.. I'd have there be an ogre priest on the island who is incapable of resurrection but totally could reincarnate him in exchange for his life. Reincarnation is a fun spell with lower level requirements and less long term downsides.

But I doubt I'd budge on him dying. He could have taken the tactically smart option and healed himself, then healed Vincent after the fight. (Assuming Vincent didn't get coup de gras'd). Actions in a roleplaying game have no risk or meaning without loss.

That said, there is no chance of dalamar or oris being able (much less willing) to do anything for them, IMO. Restoring lost levels is less of a deal than full resurrection, and oris couldn't even do that
"(Dudes are) not going to say "Buy this game — I cried at the end". (...) I suppose the secret is to find a game that makes you shoot eight million fuckin' dudes and then cry about how awesome it is to shoot eight million fuckin' dudes." - Tim Rogers
Hitch-22
Profile Blog Joined February 2013
Canada753 Posts
June 08 2013 20:35 GMT
#1615
On June 09 2013 05:19 GoldenH wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
It really depends on how resurrection works in their world. He's made changes to so much else, I wouldn't be surprised if he could be resurrected. However I doubt the party has enough gold at this point to pay for it.

If it were my game.. I'd have there be an ogre priest on the island who is incapable of resurrection but totally could reincarnate him in exchange for his life. Reincarnation is a fun spell with lower level requirements and less long term downsides.

But I doubt I'd budge on him dying. He could have taken the tactically smart option and healed himself, then healed Vincent after the fight. (Assuming Vincent didn't get coup de gras'd). Actions in a roleplaying game have no risk or meaning without loss.

That said, there is no chance of dalamar or oris being able (much less willing) to do anything for them, IMO. Restoring lost levels is less of a deal than full resurrection, and oris couldn't even do that


+ Show Spoiler +
I'd argue that the Wizard could put them in his pocket by doing so and Oris couldn't restore levels because it was approx 3-4 months after the fact.
"We all let our sword do the talking for us once in awhile I guess" - Bregor, the legendary critical striker and critical misser who triple crits 2 horses with 1 arrow but lands 3 1's in a row
Daogin
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Canada2308 Posts
June 08 2013 20:38 GMT
#1616
On June 09 2013 04:56 Hitch-22 wrote:
Questions about last hour (pours one out)
+ Show Spoiler +
Is it possible to save tugabutt? I mean hypothetically Dalamar can fucking warp through space and they just slayed a dragon for him so they can maybe say "We'll be in your debt" or some shit.

I dunno but Tugabutt made the show, pouring one out... This is more devastating then Ned Stark dying in GoT ffs and that was devastating. I just feel like Oris and Dalamar have the power to do shit like this but the question is what is the reprecussions of doing so? I mean Dalamar hates Tugabutt t.t

I dunno, I'm pretty upset so I can't think, I just poured on out for the best character to ever be in any genre of anything;

Fucking Jexel.

Also I knew that slut betrayed them when they went to the "HQ" and found a fucking empty cave and a giant strolling at them. I wish they were less trusting I mean the leader giant knew everything about livinpink so it makes sense he'd know her best friend.

Also like fucking GoT (best example I can think of) has a guy who was resurrected 6 fucking times and we all go along and say "yeah magic in a magic world" so it's not crazy)

I just hope Neil finds the balance between keeping it realistic (with regards to the world) and punishable.

THIS SUCK! : ( Sad fucking panda


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfqTrtcL7pg&feature=youtu.be
Everyone watch this

That music is fucking awesome, gives me shivers.
Leenoctopus <3, master of foreign events.
GoldenH
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
1115 Posts
June 08 2013 20:42 GMT
#1617
On June 09 2013 05:35 Hitch-22 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 09 2013 05:19 GoldenH wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
It really depends on how resurrection works in their world. He's made changes to so much else, I wouldn't be surprised if he could be resurrected. However I doubt the party has enough gold at this point to pay for it.

If it were my game.. I'd have there be an ogre priest on the island who is incapable of resurrection but totally could reincarnate him in exchange for his life. Reincarnation is a fun spell with lower level requirements and less long term downsides.

But I doubt I'd budge on him dying. He could have taken the tactically smart option and healed himself, then healed Vincent after the fight. (Assuming Vincent didn't get coup de gras'd). Actions in a roleplaying game have no risk or meaning without loss.

That said, there is no chance of dalamar or oris being able (much less willing) to do anything for them, IMO. Restoring lost levels is less of a deal than full resurrection, and oris couldn't even do that


+ Show Spoiler +
I'd argue that the Wizard could put them in his pocket by doing so and Oris couldn't restore levels because it was approx 3-4 months after the fact.


+ Show Spoiler +
I doubt it. That's what Neil said, but Oris didn't even think he could do it even if they had been there sooner. Also I don't think recovering lost levels is even a thing in 2e, though it might be available at higher levels via a wish or something. I mean, if I were the GM, the reason Dalamar wanted Oris around was so he could resurrect Brightblade. But we haven't had any hint of that., so Oris seems to not be higher level than the party.

Best thing to do is to let JP control a npc until they get a chance to get tudagub ressed, if he even decides to.

What does Dalamar want with dead heroes anyway? And of all the PCs, Dalamar is the least likely to res tudagub after the way he acted :p
"(Dudes are) not going to say "Buy this game — I cried at the end". (...) I suppose the secret is to find a game that makes you shoot eight million fuckin' dudes and then cry about how awesome it is to shoot eight million fuckin' dudes." - Tim Rogers
Mothra
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States1448 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-08 21:02:34
June 08 2013 21:00 GMT
#1618
On June 09 2013 04:56 Hitch-22 wrote:
Questions about last hour (pours one out)
+ Show Spoiler +
Is it possible to save tugabutt? I mean hypothetically Dalamar can fucking warp through space and they just slayed a dragon for him so they can maybe say "We'll be in your debt" or some shit.

I dunno but Tugabutt made the show, pouring one out... This is more devastating then Ned Stark dying in GoT ffs and that was devastating. I just feel like Oris and Dalamar have the power to do shit like this but the question is what is the reprecussions of doing so? I mean Dalamar hates Tugabutt t.t

I dunno, I'm pretty upset so I can't think, I just poured on out for the best character to ever be in any genre of anything;

Fucking Jexel.

Also I knew that slut betrayed them when they went to the "HQ" and found a fucking empty cave and a giant strolling at them. I wish they were less trusting I mean the leader giant knew everything about livinpink so it makes sense he'd know her best friend.

Also like fucking GoT (best example I can think of) has a guy who was resurrected 6 fucking times and we all go along and say "yeah magic in a magic world" so it's not crazy)

I just hope Neil finds the balance between keeping it realistic (with regards to the world) and punishable.

THIS SUCK! : ( Sad fucking panda


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfqTrtcL7pg&feature=youtu.be
Everyone watch this


Wow love that music and the voiceovers... damn, people are talented.
xPliCt
Profile Joined December 2010
Germany143 Posts
June 08 2013 21:27 GMT
#1619
On June 09 2013 05:42 GoldenH wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 09 2013 05:35 Hitch-22 wrote:
On June 09 2013 05:19 GoldenH wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
It really depends on how resurrection works in their world. He's made changes to so much else, I wouldn't be surprised if he could be resurrected. However I doubt the party has enough gold at this point to pay for it.

If it were my game.. I'd have there be an ogre priest on the island who is incapable of resurrection but totally could reincarnate him in exchange for his life. Reincarnation is a fun spell with lower level requirements and less long term downsides.

But I doubt I'd budge on him dying. He could have taken the tactically smart option and healed himself, then healed Vincent after the fight. (Assuming Vincent didn't get coup de gras'd). Actions in a roleplaying game have no risk or meaning without loss.

That said, there is no chance of dalamar or oris being able (much less willing) to do anything for them, IMO. Restoring lost levels is less of a deal than full resurrection, and oris couldn't even do that


+ Show Spoiler +
I'd argue that the Wizard could put them in his pocket by doing so and Oris couldn't restore levels because it was approx 3-4 months after the fact.


+ Show Spoiler +
I doubt it. That's what Neil said, but Oris didn't even think he could do it even if they had been there sooner. Also I don't think recovering lost levels is even a thing in 2e, though it might be available at higher levels via a wish or something. I mean, if I were the GM, the reason Dalamar wanted Oris around was so he could resurrect Brightblade. But we haven't had any hint of that., so Oris seems to not be higher level than the party.

Best thing to do is to let JP control a npc until they get a chance to get tudagub ressed, if he even decides to.

What does Dalamar want with dead heroes anyway? And of all the PCs, Dalamar is the least likely to res tudagub after the way he acted :p



+ Show Spoiler +
I think we can stop the spoilers cause the last part of the episode was released today

Allowing resurection (at this level) is a hard choice. It can destroy games when it is to easy to afford cause there is nearly no fear of dying and the players stop being to careful (imho it was a miracle that with their style of play they needed 17 sessions until the first one of them died).

I also think that Neal is changing dalamars role to a potentional antigonist. Perhaps they will meet his "master" and get to know why he was cursed and that he has to stopped or something.

Another point is: the whole dalamar ex machina stuff is getting a bit out of hand while he had selfish reasons for helping them out before i think this is over now plus it's becoming a bad habit that when something fails they call for him (which i think abi was doing the last two sessions) and he helps them out. It doesn't benefit the game either when you always can relay on a single uber-npc-ally (I think dalamar seems like a dick the last time so this alliance might be cancled)
imJealous
Profile Joined July 2010
United States1382 Posts
June 08 2013 21:57 GMT
#1620
On June 09 2013 04:56 Hitch-22 wrote:
Questions about last hour (pours one out)
+ Show Spoiler +
Is it possible to save tugabutt? I mean hypothetically Dalamar can fucking warp through space and they just slayed a dragon for him so they can maybe say "We'll be in your debt" or some shit.

I dunno but Tugabutt made the show, pouring one out... This is more devastating then Ned Stark dying in GoT ffs and that was devastating. I just feel like Oris and Dalamar have the power to do shit like this but the question is what is the reprecussions of doing so? I mean Dalamar hates Tugabutt t.t

I dunno, I'm pretty upset so I can't think, I just poured on out for the best character to ever be in any genre of anything;

Fucking Jexel.

Also I knew that slut betrayed them when they went to the "HQ" and found a fucking empty cave and a giant strolling at them. I wish they were less trusting I mean the leader giant knew everything about livinpink so it makes sense he'd know her best friend.

Also like fucking GoT (best example I can think of) has a guy who was resurrected 6 fucking times and we all go along and say "yeah magic in a magic world" so it's not crazy)

I just hope Neil finds the balance between keeping it realistic (with regards to the world) and punishable.

THIS SUCK! : ( Sad fucking panda


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfqTrtcL7pg&feature=youtu.be
Everyone watch this

Oh my fucking god this is so good...
... In life very little goes right. "Right" meaning the way one expected and the way one wanted it. One has no right to want or expect anything.
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