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as someone who plays flight sims somewhat frequently, i always am a bit annoyed by these types of games.
the MOST important thing when making a game like this is having a good flight model. The good gameplay of a dogfighting game comes from having an accurate an complex flight model that allows for the maneuvers and tactics that make the game interesting.
some examples of this are Rise of Flight (world war I sim), IL-2 sturmovik (world war II sim), and the little hidden gem that is FreeAllegiance (Space combat/strategy game).
All of these games have very complex and well developed flight models. In the case of Rise of Flight and IL-2, while they are not perfect to life, any maneuver or tactic used in real life transfers very accurately over to the game. With Free allegiance the flight model is not anything that has been experienced in real life, and probably not accurate to physics, but the model is well designed none the less, and huge variety of tactics and maneuvers that is fun.
What all these games have in common is how difficult it is to learn and master these elements. In RoF/IL-2 You aren't going to be able to execute a decent Chandelle or snap roll until you understand energy management and practice it a lot, and in Allegiance you aren't going to be able to take out an interceptor with a fighter until you master range management, missile usage, and leading (which is incredibly difficult as projectiles move fairly slowly and ships can move on all axis to confuse your aim).
However with these types of "arcade" flight games, the flight model is annoyingly simple, most tactics revolve around circle jerking until someone messes up, or just repeatedly scissoring back and forth shooting head on to your opponent each time, relying on your better aiming skills.
It's really boring and frustrating, and I would highly suggest that you play a more complex flight sim to see the full beauty of the genre. RoF and FreeAllegiance are free 
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@Morton: War Thunder does have a realistic game mode.
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@morton Have you tryed the historical battle mode with the real flight controls in Warthunder? sounds like what you are looking for.
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On January 25 2013 23:58 m4inbrain wrote:Thanks for the info.  Dbars, that's not neccessarily a good thing. At some point i want to smash lvl5 people with my lvl255 plane, i hope there is a sense of, uhm.. "advancement". Like, that you feel you get stronger, and not just a prettier plane (and yes, it's the Diablo/WoW Syndrome -.-) edit: im dl-ing right now, need to go shopping tho. Maybe at some point we'll meet in War Thunder. Will post feedback for others later.
I disagree wholeheartedly. I acknowledge and welcome the sense of progression that leveling, plane variety, weapon diversity and all that jazz beget, I know they're pretty much mandatory for the more casual players who would otherwise not keep playing for long. But at the same time I feel it's quite silly that time spent in a game should be weighed more heavily in lieu of the player's intrinsic ability to play, be it better or worse compared to his adversaries.
I find this to be a massive pitfall of many a modern F2P, the fact that an objectively skilled or talented player in the respective genre can be consistently beaten by a mediocre or even bad player simply by virtue of the latter's 200 hours spent on the game, not through experience but through simply better weapons that the 200 hours rewarded him with. (Obviously this logic can't be applied to MMORPGs in which items can be acquired by random drop through grinding dungeons, but that's beside the point)
As for War Thunder, I'll probably check it out sometime soon, although I don't seem to be having much time for gaming recently. =/
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I find this to be a massive pitfall of many a modern F2P, the fact that an objectively skilled or talented player in the respective genre can be consistently beaten by a mediocre or even bad player simply by virtue of the latter's 200 hours spent on the game, not through experience but through simply better weapons that the 200 hours rewarded him with. (Obviously this logic can't be applied to MMORPGs in which items can be acquired by random drop through grinding dungeons, but that's beside the point)
Guess i could have worded it differently.
There is no point in grinding a game, if you don't get an advantage. Even in World of Tanks (which is imbalanced as hell), you can kill a bad Tiger-driver with a T-34 or even a M4. Or a Maus with nearly everything from T7 on. If the drivers are bad. On the other hand, on equal "skill-level", the player with more "levels" should win.
As i said, there is no point in grinding, if you can achieve everything in the starter-plane. I didn't mean autowin, but if i meet you in the air, you having achieved level whatever the highest is, and i'm in a starter-plane, you should clearly have a noticable advantage. That's actually the point of free to play games. There is no need for premium otherwise, which in World of Tanks just means "getting big things faster".
Also, at your time-spent argument, just because you spend more time in the game, does not neccessarily mean that you have a higher level than other players (in a good system). "Skill" should be rewarded, of course. But just to a certain level, i don't know how to word it properly. Like, the max-level player would need to make big (and stupid) mistakes to lose against a starter-plane, something like that.
Again, i'm not talking autowin here.
And now i'm going to try the game.
Edit: is there a way to switch between shooter and classic controls after the initial startup?
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On January 26 2013 00:08 Morton wrote:as someone who plays flight sims somewhat frequently, i always am a bit annoyed by these types of games. the MOST important thing when making a game like this is having a good flight model. The good gameplay of a dogfighting game comes from having an accurate an complex flight model that allows for the maneuvers and tactics that make the game interesting. some examples of this are Rise of Flight (world war I sim), IL-2 sturmovik (world war II sim), and the little hidden gem that is FreeAllegiance (Space combat/strategy game). All of these games have very complex and well developed flight models. In the case of Rise of Flight and IL-2, while they are not perfect to life, any maneuver or tactic used in real life transfers very accurately over to the game. With Free allegiance the flight model is not anything that has been experienced in real life, and probably not accurate to physics, but the model is well designed none the less, and huge variety of tactics and maneuvers that is fun. What all these games have in common is how difficult it is to learn and master these elements. In RoF/IL-2 You aren't going to be able to execute a decent Chandelle or snap roll until you understand energy management and practice it a lot, and in Allegiance you aren't going to be able to take out an interceptor with a fighter until you master range management, missile usage, and leading (which is incredibly difficult as projectiles move fairly slowly and ships can move on all axis to confuse your aim). However with these types of "arcade" flight games, the flight model is annoyingly simple, most tactics revolve around circle jerking until someone messes up, or just repeatedly scissoring back and forth shooting head on to your opponent each time, relying on your better aiming skills. It's really boring and frustrating, and I would highly suggest that you play a more complex flight sim to see the full beauty of the genre. RoF and FreeAllegiance are free
As someone already said above, WT does have a realistic mode in it, and while i didn't try that extensively tbh (i mostly spent my limited time in game trying to unlock better planes, and having no friends interested in it....) it seems quite accurate (for example, if you're flying planes like the hurricane, you're pretty much forced to do positive G maneuvers as the fuel system fails when you're upside down due to technical shortcomings, can't remember the translation in english >.>)
and besides, Gaijin Entertainment made Il-2 Sturmovik: Wings of Prey, and the engine of WT should be based on that. (I only played Il-2 Forgotten battles, so can't comment on WoP... perhaps someone who played it can?)
PS. in arcade having an higher level plane is not an absolute, as the most noticeable difference is starter plane (biplanes) vs decent fighters (say, spitfire) and while they are outgunned and sluggish in comparison, they do have better turning rates.
Some other planes are higher level but aren't really that different from their lower peer tho (Blenheim vs beaufort, some levels of the beaufighters, and other non-brit planes)
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Man, that carrier landing -.-
Hm.. Do i need to stay in a battle until it ends, or can i leave it when i am dead?
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On January 26 2013 04:20 m4inbrain wrote:
Man, that carrier landing -.-
Hm.. Do i need to stay in a battle until it ends, or can i leave it when i am dead?
You get several replacement airplanes, and when/if they all get shot down, you are free to leave.
And if you're talking about the tutorial mission, yeah, it's a real bitch. Took me like ten tries to do it.
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Yeah, around ten tries. Somehow the command to decrease RPM to 30% was off, just took me a while to realize that i need to ignore it. ^^
Up until now, i really enjoy playing that game, although i don't really get how you can fly PvE Missions, what rewards you get for that, etc.. Tutorial for that would be nice. Also, a special kind of mission seems to be limited per day, i have no clue which one (and why it's limited).
And the game suffers seemingly a bit from the same problem as World of Tanks does (bias). Other than that, i would say that the developers are on a really good way, obviously there are things to improve on (Crew-XP, took me forever to figure out that i even can upgrade them, although for some parts i have no clue what it does), also some planes could use improved textures. But all in all, small stuff, as far as we just talk the game itself, it's alot of fun and i guess i will keep playing it for now (hope it does not get boring, because none of my friends is into flightsims and stuff like that  ).
And yeah, it kinda suffers alot from waiting times (at 21:00 i had to wait ~2 minutes). Guess you need more people, but i believe with the introduction of tanks and battleships, alot of the World of Tanks veterans would switch. The engine at least is so much better than that of WoT or especially WoWp.
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Bias? Dude, you've just started playing and are aleady seeing bias?
As for understanding stuff better, you should go to the forum: http://forum.gaijinent.com/index.php?/forum/27-game-discussion
And the waiting times are one of the main reasons we want more people to join. If you don't get really bad pings to Russia, you can also check "Any available" in the battle que server selection.
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Nah. It's no fun to play with russian people (for me), was the same in World of Tanks. The language barrier is just too big, you can't communicate efficient enough. Also, i don't think i get too good of a ping on russian servers, in WoT it was around 180+, too much.
And well, about the bias, you don't need to play it on top level - in fact, you can already see it if you compare planes. Then again, the biggest whiff was the forum, where that is also discussed, so.. I said seemingly for a reason. 
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I really don't know about any bias. I'm playing mainly Luftwaffe ATM and I don't have any problems against any specific nation.
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On January 26 2013 09:34 Trilandian wrote:
I really don't know about any bias. I'm playing mainly Luftwaffe ATM and I don't have any problems against any specific nation.
Well, i play Luftwaffe as well, as a german.
Guess time will tell, about the bias thing.
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On January 26 2013 10:33 m4inbrain wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2013 09:34 Trilandian wrote:
I really don't know about any bias. I'm playing mainly Luftwaffe ATM and I don't have any problems against any specific nation. Well, i play Luftwaffe as well, as a german. Guess time will tell, about the bias thing.
Ineed.
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I've been playing this for a few weeks now, its a fun game and the mouse controls make Arcade Battle and Historical Battle easy to get into. Haven't tried Full Real Battle since i don't have a stick.
There is some bias in the low tier plane selection, t0 reserve USSR planes out-turn and outgun all their equivalents in the other countries, but once you get a few ranks past that it gets a lot better. Everything around rank6 can beat each other, and have their own strengths and weaknesses... Russian Yaks and Japanese Zeros turning is amazing for arcade battle, but their weaker engines and low ammo reserves make them less powerful on historical battles; opposite of that, American planes and German bf109s can really use their energy fighting strengths in historical battles where the other planes cant follow their dives and climbs, but aren't quite as good at turning, so they suffer a bit in arcade battle. Almost all the planes are viable and you can easily down a higher rank plane with a lower ranked one (use a rocket equipped fighter for bombers if you don't have cannons).
Also some advice for XP gain; once you get your first bomber, go for ground targets - they yield a lot more XP, but less lions than killing airplanes, and there are a ton of them. Tank columns are a priority since they give the most XP for the smallest explosive needed (I think you can take out a heavy tank with a 100kg/250lbs bomb on a direct hit), try not to go for pillboxes until you can carry 500kg/1000lbs bombs to 1shot them.
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I am very impressed with this game. Already quite refined and polished.
With the realistic and historical modes it already offers things that WoT always promised but never delivered.
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I just started playing this game with my friends who have been playing for a bit longer than me.
One thing I want to know is if its OK to leave after you die, my friends told me that you lose alot of EXP if you leave even if all your planes are dead
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On February 03 2013 05:43 jbui wrote:
I just started playing this game with my friends who have been playing for a bit longer than me.
One thing I want to know is if its OK to leave after you die, my friends told me that you lose alot of EXP if you leave even if all your planes are dead
yep u can leave anytime you want and will get exp. Also if u have a expensive plane and know you are going to die you can quit mission to avoid repair costs
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It is an awesome game.;
I ' ll come back with some opinion after some play
But:its AN AWESOME GAME
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Guys i just decided to download this game as it seems quite fun even though i never really was into flight sims.
So i got some questions:
-will there be a wipe (as this is still open beta) before release?
-whats the difference between the game modes (arcade, historical battles, dont know the third)
-what game mode would you suggest for someone that wants piloting skill to play the major role in the fight (not the plane level), i would guess arcade is not that realistic and skill based (following your discussion a few posts above)
-last question and reason im not already checking out the game modes myself is if you guys had problems with downloading/installing the game? My antivirus program rang alarm a few times and the client wont finish downloading.
Tried running it with admin rights and its going good so far but did you guys experience problems (mostly related to virus warnings)?
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EPT
