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Europa Universalis IV - Page 89

Forum Index > General Games
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SKC
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil18828 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-02 18:54:58
November 02 2014 18:54 GMT
#1761
Stuff like how large rebellions work has never been realistic at all in EU4. You could have rebel death stacks in older version as well, so it's not like it was this patch that made it unrealistic. It was always a very gamey mechanic, not really historically accurate.

My first playthrough has been as a fairly boring nation, so I can't really complain so far, but it doesn't look any less realistic than before. Just maybe needs a few adjustments in the numbers.
Yurie
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
12082 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-02 19:33:37
November 02 2014 19:32 GMT
#1762
I think tribal rebels in EU3 were balanced.

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?486346-Rebels-without-a-pause-a-Tribal-AAR&p=12182409&viewfull=1#post12182409

Check totals at bottom of post, this is after a world conquest from prawnstar. (I would never, ever, ever do that WC.)

If I recall correctly that version didn't have auto hunt for rebels, even if it had it wouldn't have worked with some of the numbers when the ruler died.
LaNague
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany9118 Posts
November 02 2014 19:35 GMT
#1763
whats with paradox and their rebellions?

In CK2 they too had (have?) those really unrealistic deathstack armies for rebellions that were bigger than any army any nation fielded since the roman empire.
ShiaoPi
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
November 02 2014 21:41 GMT
#1764
paradox just loves waving the red-black flag for no good reasons :>
I do remember prawnstar's aars in eu3 fondly.

At least from a balance point of view the eu3 one was working much better, but then you did have a simulation of population in eu3 compared to eu4....
LiquidDota Staff@TW_ShiaoPi
TL+ Member
WladimirUN
Profile Joined February 2005
Germany67 Posts
November 02 2014 21:50 GMT
#1765
How does the Papal controller works now? I get that you have the influence and you can spend it on things like a chance to get more cardinals, but how to become controller? I was it once by chance w/o any cardinals... I'm lost
TerransHill
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany572 Posts
November 03 2014 03:07 GMT
#1766
On November 03 2014 02:24 Bojas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 02 2014 22:54 TerransHill wrote:
On November 02 2014 20:05 Bojas wrote:
I like the new rebel system. It feels more realistic, the old system felt like a genocidal whack-a-mole game.

As long as you don't get a new king with low legitimacy you should be fine by raising autonomy/stability. Also -X unrest bonusses are great! When you become bigger you should be able to take on a rebel uprising.
I got unlucky once with bad stability events and a king with 0 legitimacy and I rage quitted out of that game. They should do something about that, and also perhaps other situations that were made for the old rebel system that are now impossible to deal with.

Also, using Harsh treatment should be an "oh shit" button, that you should prevent pressing at all cost.

Have you guys found out wether it's worth it to keep marches around? I made a few, they are useful at first but long term they don't seem to be worth it, because they are hard to integrate.


Its not realistic at all. I have no problem with a little bit of challenge but this rebel system gets it totally wrong. It takes all the credibility and immersion from the game.
Take a look at this situation for example:

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


Those are fraticelli rebels. A minority religion who wanted to be accepted. How on earth would they get a total of 54k units? It is the year 1475 as you can see and my troop limit is 15. Hell they even have more troops than a huge nation like france has at that time.
Removing them drained all my remaining manpower and made me take 3 loans.


Yeah, that might be one of those occasions that need a tweak. But I don't know what you did prior to this.

What I meant by realism is that killing 10.000 of your citizens because they rebelled every few weeks is weird.
The point of this system is that you gradually piss certain factions off more, until at a certain point they snap and rebel against you. That seems pretty realistic to me.

You mean it's not realistic because it's not historical. That's a different debate.


As for army tradition, in my experience rebels don't have good generals anymore, sometimes no general at all. In my Ethiopia game, my generals are on average slightly better.


I get that, I also kinda like how that new system works with the autonomy etc.

The numbers however... totally ridiculous. One thing I like about this game is that I can replay history under kind of realistic circumstances.
Some minority religion fielding 54k men however totally kills that immersive feel.
Respect my authoritah!!
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14107 Posts
November 03 2014 03:41 GMT
#1767
I think rebels are a lot better now then they were before. the ability to predict them coming is better then random chance.

TYW makes all the hype worth it. really fixed the reformation and gives a lot of bite to it developing.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
WindWolf
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
Sweden11767 Posts
November 03 2014 06:26 GMT
#1768
On November 03 2014 06:50 WladimirUN wrote:
How does the Papal controller works now? I get that you have the influence and you can spend it on things like a chance to get more cardinals, but how to become controller? I was it once by chance w/o any cardinals... I'm lost

I think it is this way. If you control a cardinal, you can spend your PI towards becoming the next papal controller once the current pope dies. Once the current pope dies, the next papal controller is randomized among those who spent PI
EZ4ENCE
hfglgg
Profile Joined December 2012
Germany5372 Posts
November 03 2014 06:30 GMT
#1769
On November 03 2014 04:35 LaNague wrote:
whats with paradox and their rebellions?

In CK2 they too had (have?) those really unrealistic deathstack armies for rebellions that were bigger than any army any nation fielded since the roman empire.


its almost impossible to simulate rebellions properly in eu4, especially in the later parts of the game and keep them somewhat fun.
historically, rebellions didnt gather regular armies out of thin air / the population and battleing the rulers on an even battleground and sieging fortresses for years.
it was either groups of untrained peasents that rioted, pillaged and killed officials everywhere, but got dispatched easily by the first army send against them or, if the rebellion had any chance of success, parts of the regular standing army turned against its former ruler. especially the second option would be super frustrating to play against.
Alzadar
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada5009 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-03 06:31:46
November 03 2014 06:30 GMT
#1770
So in my Ethiopia game right now around 1650 the rebels are starting to feel right, because they're still about the same size as they were 150 years ago, but I'm much stronger. Every couple of years 2-4 stacks of 15-20 rebels will spawn, with my force-limit being around 80. This is a good amount: not enough to be a real problem if you have a full strength army, but will quickly add up if you have multiple revolts you can't deal with quickly.

e.g. the Timurids in my game are being torn apart by rebels because their army was battered by successive wars, and several revolts happened at once. I like the new rebel system, the numbers are just too high for the first 100 years.

Other than that and minimum autonomy on same-continent colonies, AoW is great, love all the other new mechanics.
I am the Town Medic.
419
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Russian Federation3631 Posts
November 03 2014 10:00 GMT
#1771
I think given that colonization is a much less monarch point / AE heavy way of expanding, that the autonomy floor is fair.

Given new Westernization mechanics, exploration-first is going to be common again anyways.

I think rebels are not intended to be historical, but from a gameplay perspective they do need to represent an actual threat. The new system is much better though and avoids frustrating things like two stacks chain-revolting in the same province with <3 RR
?
TerransHill
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany572 Posts
November 03 2014 11:31 GMT
#1772
by the way anyone else experiencing alot more lag since the patch?
any tips on how to improve the performance?
Respect my authoritah!!
Silvanel
Profile Blog Joined March 2003
Poland4751 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-03 11:36:44
November 03 2014 11:36 GMT
#1773
I have. I tried to switch of things (like water, shades etc). Doesnt work. Changing the autosave settings helped briefly (for like two in game months). Also sometimes it seems like after loading the game runs better and then clumps up after few months.Dunno, what to do. The game is unplayable for me right now. I might put the game off, till the new patch or untill i get new hardware. (Or someone finds software related solution).
Pathetic Greta hater.
Yello
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany7411 Posts
November 03 2014 11:47 GMT
#1774
On November 03 2014 20:31 TerransHill wrote:
by the way anyone else experiencing alot more lag since the patch?
any tips on how to improve the performance?


I have the same problem. As soon as I am past the early game everything above speed 2 is really laggy. I was on borderless windowed mode, switching to fullscreen helped a little but not by much.
Before the patch everything was running perfectly smooth, even on speed 4 and 5
Just ahead of time, know your addiction's not a crime. It's just a smaller part of who you want to become in the end.
TerransHill
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany572 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-03 12:05:24
November 03 2014 11:54 GMT
#1775
On November 03 2014 20:36 Silvanel wrote:
I have. I tried to switch of things (like water, shades etc). Doesnt work. Changing the autosave settings helped briefly (for like two in game months). Also sometimes it seems like after loading the game runs better and then clumps up after few months.Dunno, what to do. The game is unplayable for me right now. I might put the game off, till the new patch or untill i get new hardware. (Or someone finds software related solution).


Do you have an ATI graphic card aswell? Maybe it has sth. to do with that.
I am now around 1600 and it got unplayable for me aswell. But I also have laggs right from the start (still playable, but annoying).
I also realized that the game crashes alot when minimized. :/

edit: googled a bit and some say that the laggs stopped for them when they bought art oft war. Now that's what I call a sales strategy :D
can any1 confirm that?
Respect my authoritah!!
WindWolf
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
Sweden11767 Posts
November 03 2014 12:27 GMT
#1776
On November 03 2014 20:31 TerransHill wrote:
by the way anyone else experiencing alot more lag since the patch?
any tips on how to improve the performance?

Only when I open the National Ideas tab and doing stuff there, otherwise I'm getting about the same performance as before.
EZ4ENCE
Zaphod Beeblebrox
Profile Joined December 2010
Denmark697 Posts
November 03 2014 13:20 GMT
#1777
Trade view and then zoomed out over Europe makes the game lag like a bad gif for me.

Also, it seems to randomly crash once in a while.
Go try StarBow on the Arcade. TL thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=440661
Alzadar
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada5009 Posts
November 03 2014 15:52 GMT
#1778
On November 03 2014 19:00 419 wrote:
I think given that colonization is a much less monarch point / AE heavy way of expanding, that the autonomy floor is fair.

Given new Westernization mechanics, exploration-first is going to be common again anyways.

I think rebels are not intended to be historical, but from a gameplay perspective they do need to represent an actual threat. The new system is much better though and avoids frustrating things like two stacks chain-revolting in the same province with <3 RR


I don't see how. Most colonizable provinces in Africa for example are 1-2 base tax. What's the appeal of investing an entire idea group so I can grab a bunch of provinces worth 0.25 tax? It will take centuries for the colony to even pay for its own cost.
I am the Town Medic.
Dangermousecatdog
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom7084 Posts
November 03 2014 16:05 GMT
#1779
They raise your land and naval force limits. Also production and trade income. And technically, you don't need to invest in an entire idea group just for Africa, because chances are, if you do invest in Exploration, you've colonised far more than just some African provinces. Plus having even one African province means that you can invade India or Asia just that much earlier/efficiently/cheaper.
Alzadar
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada5009 Posts
November 03 2014 17:36 GMT
#1780
On November 04 2014 01:05 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
They raise your land and naval force limits. Also production and trade income. And technically, you don't need to invest in an entire idea group just for Africa, because chances are, if you do invest in Exploration, you've colonised far more than just some African provinces. Plus having even one African province means that you can invade India or Asia just that much earlier/efficiently/cheaper.


Force limits, production and trade are all reduced by autonomy... literally every valuable stat is (except income from gold mines, I think).

In my case I'm playing Ethiopia, so colonizing won't get me any closer to India! It's about wanting to fill in the few gaps (especially the connection to western Africa), but seeing little incentive to do so at the cost of a whole idea group when I'd only get a bunch of 0.25 tax provinces for it.
I am the Town Medic.
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