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Europa Universalis IV - Page 140

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Broetchenholer
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany1961 Posts
July 12 2015 16:27 GMT
#2781
Those 46k troops would be a lot more beneficial, if the AI would actually take attrition based on all armies and not based on the individual army sizes But pretty cool nonetheless. Do you even have the money for Quantity? It's one thing to have your manpower never run out and another to pay for that. I always feel like the early game is about winning as cost efficient as possible, quality might be quite good for that.

Short rant: why can't the ai not have a trigger not to take more land then appropriate? Taking 61 AE in a peacedeal is just plain retarded. Doing it next to the HRE makes it less intelligent...
419
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Russian Federation3631 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-07-12 21:27:32
July 12 2015 20:29 GMT
#2782
Those 46k troops would be a lot more beneficial, if the AI would actually take attrition based on all armies and not based on the individual army sizes

This was fixed in 1.12, I'm almost certain they take full attrition damage.

Short rant: why can't the ai not have a trigger not to take more land then appropriate? Taking 61 AE in a peacedeal is just plain retarded. Doing it next to the HRE makes it less intelligent...

Burgundy in particular is hardcoded to act suicidally so as to railroad the inheritance. "Annex Liege"

Do you even have the money for Quantity?

Quantity is money - more manpower, less mercs = big savings, in addition to dual maintenance modifiers.
?
Broetchenholer
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany1961 Posts
July 12 2015 21:48 GMT
#2783
Well, yes, your troop maintenance is 20% cheaper, but you still take the same amount of damage and you suddenly have more troops then you can actually afford to reinforce. In peacetimes you save money but in wartimes relying less on mercs should increase your spendings by alot. If you take less damage, your monetary situation would be more stable. On the other hand, even if the money argument is slightly valid, quantity offers so much more that it's probably safest to just take it.

For the attrition, i would be very very surprised if they fixed that. I think i read in a thread that this behavior was intentional because the AI was very bad at avoiding attrition and my last games have shown absolutely no sign of attrition for the AI. But maybe i am too used to watch France defy the laws of physics that i misinterpreted that. Would be so cool though, i'll check.
Archeon
Profile Joined May 2011
3265 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-07-12 22:00:20
July 12 2015 21:58 GMT
#2784
On July 11 2015 20:26 Skilledblob wrote:
...

Over the course of 100 years I barely managed to annex all of Korea with the help of Manchu because Korea is always allied to Ming and Ming fields 100k troops.

in the last patches if you managed to beat ming a couple times their country would break down and rebels would pop everywhere but in my game Ming has 0 manpower and just runs around with 60000 mercs and 40000 normal troops and kills everything.

Tbh I would just go through the north or try to go south through SEA, dodge Ming for as long as they dont collapse.

Ming is now a lucky nation, so they dont collapse unless mandate of heaven lost procs, which is only based on legitimacy and stability, effects that you can pretty much only influence by hoping that their king dies in a battle (not very likely).

Overall they get -4 for tolerance,-5 for mandate of heaven, -1 for lucky nation, -up to 2 for legitimacy, an average of -1 for stability and -5 for accepted culture in a defensive war for a total of up to -18 revolt risk in every province that is confucian and accepted (about 3/4 of their provinces at the start of the game).
low gravity, yes-yes!
419
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Russian Federation3631 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-07-13 00:37:41
July 13 2015 00:33 GMT
#2785
[image loading]
none of my 7 allies were interested so decided to solo-fight the coalition.

I've got Aland and Osel this time so that's three times more places I can trap troops on. Galley blocking is amazing.
?
[UoN]Sentinel
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States11320 Posts
July 13 2015 01:30 GMT
#2786
[image loading]

Holy shit, I've never seen the Ottomans get this big so fast. They ate Hungary and a piece of Bohemia by 1515, and they just finished their latest Egyptian incursion by the end of 1522. Any advice on dealing with them? My strategy was going to be to conquer a bunch of their Muslim provinces so they convert to Christianity.
Нас зовет дух отцов, память старых бойцов, дух Москвы и твердыня Полтавы
419
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Russian Federation3631 Posts
July 13 2015 01:56 GMT
#2787
Ottomans won't convert - humanist ideas + ottoman ideas = really high tolerance to heretics / heathens.

Here's my clinic on breaking Ottomans:

http://imgur.com/a/WkNOI

TL;DR use conquest CB, do not take wargoal, occupy Turkish cores, wait.
?
nimbim
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany985 Posts
July 13 2015 10:26 GMT
#2788
Is this just 1.13 AI being mean or has it always behaved like this? I have overextension, 0 manpower and currently in the civil war disaster, but Muscovy thinks I want to join their offensive war. They are such an awful ally, I should have ditched them after they made that suicidal attack on Novgorod+Commonwealth, but tribal government with -2 relations kinda got me stuck with them (I also have their dynasty) and Poland is only friendly 1month every 2-3years, so I have to get the timing right -_-
Skilledblob
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany3392 Posts
July 13 2015 10:39 GMT
#2789
On July 13 2015 06:58 Blackfeather wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 11 2015 20:26 Skilledblob wrote:
...

Over the course of 100 years I barely managed to annex all of Korea with the help of Manchu because Korea is always allied to Ming and Ming fields 100k troops.

in the last patches if you managed to beat ming a couple times their country would break down and rebels would pop everywhere but in my game Ming has 0 manpower and just runs around with 60000 mercs and 40000 normal troops and kills everything.

Tbh I would just go through the north or try to go south through SEA, dodge Ming for as long as they dont collapse.

Ming is now a lucky nation, so they dont collapse unless mandate of heaven lost procs, which is only based on legitimacy and stability, effects that you can pretty much only influence by hoping that their king dies in a battle (not very likely).

Overall they get -4 for tolerance,-5 for mandate of heaven, -1 for lucky nation, -up to 2 for legitimacy, an average of -1 for stability and -5 for accepted culture in a defensive war for a total of up to -18 revolt risk in every province that is confucian and accepted (about 3/4 of their provinces at the start of the game).


had to restart the game because at that point Ming was so hyper agressive towards me they attacked me every chance they got.

In my new attempt I managed to trap 30000 Ming troops on Sakhalin because the vastly superior Ming fleet thought it was more important to blockade my 20 Galleys instead of killing that 1 transport that blocks a third of his army on an island.

This time I didnt let Ming peace out until I had so much of his shit sieged down that he was at 20 war exhaustion and seperatist rebels were popping all over his lands. Which thankfully ripped his lands apart.
If you can manage to get Wu and Shun and maybe Yue to seperate from Ming you are golden. At that point Ming becomes managable.

Also something I noticed is that the 1.13 patch massively increases the coring costs for non-overseas colonies. So for example before the patch it would cost around 4 admin points to core a province in Taiwan after the colony finishes, now it is tied to development the same way you have to pay for coring enemy lands. So suddenly you have to pay 50-150 admin points to core these colonies. This is a huge nerf to Japan and Russia and especially to Japan because outside of Manchu everything costs ridiculous amounts of admin now to core.
Broetchenholer
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany1961 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-07-13 12:40:54
July 13 2015 10:40 GMT
#2790
Okay guys, i need help on a mechanic I am Castille and i just became the emperor. YAY Now, if i understand it correctly, i can add every province to the HRE that is adjacent to the HRE and if i will add my capital to the HRE, that makes me join it. Now, will they let me do it? Me being emperor and all that? I would transfer my capital to Calais after i conveniently finished my war with England, change the capital to Calais and join the empire. Will that work?

Edit: Yaaaaaaassss! It worked.
419
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Russian Federation3631 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-07-13 10:47:52
July 13 2015 10:47 GMT
#2791
On July 13 2015 19:26 nimbim wrote:
Is this just 1.13 AI being mean or has it always behaved like this? I have overextension, 0 manpower and currently in the civil war disaster, but Muscovy thinks I want to join their offensive war. They are such an awful ally, I should have ditched them after they made that suicidal attack on Novgorod+Commonwealth, but tribal government with -2 relations kinda got me stuck with them (I also have their dynasty) and Poland is only friendly 1month every 2-3years, so I have to get the timing right -_-

Circassia is the worst start in the Caucasus imo, it actually gets completely hosed diplomatically.

AIs just going crazy this patch in general, haven't seen so many AI on AI coalitions so far.
?
Fildun
Profile Joined December 2012
Netherlands4123 Posts
July 13 2015 10:51 GMT
#2792
AIs are just going crazy in peacedeals, they take so much more AE then previously and it's not just Burgundy who does that.

Just had Austria basically full annex Bavaria in around 1460 or so (don't remember exactly) after which they got the entire HRE in a coalition against them and were forced to spit out Tirol.
It's just crazy how stupid the AI got this patch.
nimbim
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany985 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-07-13 11:51:05
July 13 2015 11:50 GMT
#2793
On July 13 2015 19:47 419 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 13 2015 19:26 nimbim wrote:
Is this just 1.13 AI being mean or has it always behaved like this? I have overextension, 0 manpower and currently in the civil war disaster, but Muscovy thinks I want to join their offensive war. They are such an awful ally, I should have ditched them after they made that suicidal attack on Novgorod+Commonwealth, but tribal government with -2 relations kinda got me stuck with them (I also have their dynasty) and Poland is only friendly 1month every 2-3years, so I have to get the timing right -_-

Circassia is the worst start in the Caucasus imo, it actually gets completely hosed diplomatically.

AIs just going crazy this patch in general, haven't seen so many AI on AI coalitions so far.


Well, it wasn't so bad until Muscovy started their suicide attack, they really saved me when the hordes came knocking. I've allied Novgorod now who got even more Muscovy land from the last war and somehow they got the same dynasty too.

I was constantly losing stability to those awful tribal events, so this made me very sad:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

I would have liked that when I got the remaining 200admin to reform government

By the way, your horde Poland AAR was amazing cool.
Broetchenholer
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany1961 Posts
July 13 2015 17:07 GMT
#2794
On July 13 2015 19:51 Fildun wrote:
AIs are just going crazy in peacedeals, they take so much more AE then previously and it's not just Burgundy who does that.

Just had Austria basically full annex Bavaria in around 1460 or so (don't remember exactly) after which they got the entire HRE in a coalition against them and were forced to spit out Tirol.
It's just crazy how stupid the AI got this patch.


Exactly, after i destabilized the french region it's a complete clusterfuck of Coalitions. Toulouse, Burgundy, Auvergne, Nevers, they get created from thin air by me or a coalition war, then they blob themselves as everyone else is weak as well and then they get killed off by a coalition that creates another minor that blobs out afterwards and gets coalitioned again. The new mechanic for the AI must be: See 90 development in basetaxe with no allies laying around? Better eat it whole! It's funny to see the different colors i should just make a fast forward video of france being a christmas tree
Archeon
Profile Joined May 2011
3265 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-07-13 18:33:53
July 13 2015 18:18 GMT
#2795
On July 13 2015 10:30 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
[image loading]

Holy shit, I've never seen the Ottomans get this big so fast. They ate Hungary and a piece of Bohemia by 1515, and they just finished their latest Egyptian incursion by the end of 1522. Any advice on dealing with them? My strategy was going to be to conquer a bunch of their Muslim provinces so they convert to Christianity.

Another little hint to beat Ottoblob: Similarily to Russia, the Ottomans have a lot provinces in Asia, while their capital is in Europe. So if you cut their lands in half at near the Asian border, suddenly half of their provinces are distant over sea, produce next to nothing and cost you nothing in the next peacedeal.

419's method is obviously more throughrout, but takes more time and weakens your own country more. So it depends on how much you want to commit to beat them.
However if you follow 419's method, there is little that speaks against combining the two.

On July 14 2015 02:07 Broetchenholer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 13 2015 19:51 Fildun wrote:
AIs are just going crazy in peacedeals, they take so much more AE then previously and it's not just Burgundy who does that.

Just had Austria basically full annex Bavaria in around 1460 or so (don't remember exactly) after which they got the entire HRE in a coalition against them and were forced to spit out Tirol.
It's just crazy how stupid the AI got this patch.


Exactly, after i destabilized the french region it's a complete clusterfuck of Coalitions. Toulouse, Burgundy, Auvergne, Nevers, they get created from thin air by me or a coalition war, then they blob themselves as everyone else is weak as well and then they get killed off by a coalition that creates another minor that blobs out afterwards and gets coalitioned again. The new mechanic for the AI must be: See 90 development in basetaxe with no allies laying around? Better eat it whole! It's funny to see the different colors i should just make a fast forward video of france being a christmas tree

Tbh it feels less like the AI is behaving differently and more like AE is finally calculated right for the AI. Before 1.12 nobody gave two shits about AI France eating half of Italy. Now they do the same thing, but immediately get killed by a giant HRE-coalition.

I hate coalitions in the new patch. They want nothing and they dont chicken out if you hold their mainland, so you cant get out of the war early by just giving them what they want. Instead you get 100% sieged and are done for the next 10 years. That's exactly why France and Burgundy do nothing most of the time this patch, they just collapse after a single war.
low gravity, yes-yes!
[UoN]Sentinel
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States11320 Posts
July 13 2015 18:33 GMT
#2796
On July 14 2015 03:18 Blackfeather wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 13 2015 10:30 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
[image loading]

Holy shit, I've never seen the Ottomans get this big so fast. They ate Hungary and a piece of Bohemia by 1515, and they just finished their latest Egyptian incursion by the end of 1522. Any advice on dealing with them? My strategy was going to be to conquer a bunch of their Muslim provinces so they convert to Christianity.

Another little hint to beat Ottoblob: Similarily to Russia, the Ottomans have a lot provinces in Asia, while their capital is in Europe. So if you cut their lands in half at near the Asian border, suddenly half of their provinces are distant over sea, produce next to nothing and cost you nothing in the next peacedeal.

419's method is obviously more throughrout, but takes more time and weakens your own country more. So it depends on how much you want to commit to beat them.
However if you follow 419's method, there is little that speaks against combining the two.

I don't know how much will actually pop, or how effective it'll be. A lot of the nationalist rebels have become particularists, and if anyone will declare independence it'll be countries like Hungary which are on the wrong side for me to eat. Ottomans have a pretty big force, and I can't even do my favorite trick where I split them with a bunch of galleys because they have the largest navy in the world.

But I think I can definitely claim some quick Turkish land, have a not-too-long truce during which I can finish eating Lithuania or whatever, and then push them into Europe.

@419 I know you mentioned Humanism and Ottoman tolerance, but what would happen if I were to theoretically take all of their Sunni provinces, maybe even including Constantinople?
Нас зовет дух отцов, память старых бойцов, дух Москвы и твердыня Полтавы
Archeon
Profile Joined May 2011
3265 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-07-13 18:46:36
July 13 2015 18:43 GMT
#2797
On July 14 2015 03:33 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 14 2015 03:18 Blackfeather wrote:
On July 13 2015 10:30 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
[image loading]

Holy shit, I've never seen the Ottomans get this big so fast. They ate Hungary and a piece of Bohemia by 1515, and they just finished their latest Egyptian incursion by the end of 1522. Any advice on dealing with them? My strategy was going to be to conquer a bunch of their Muslim provinces so they convert to Christianity.

Another little hint to beat Ottoblob: Similarily to Russia, the Ottomans have a lot provinces in Asia, while their capital is in Europe. So if you cut their lands in half at near the Asian border, suddenly half of their provinces are distant over sea, produce next to nothing and cost you nothing in the next peacedeal.

419's method is obviously more throughrout, but takes more time and weakens your own country more. So it depends on how much you want to commit to beat them.
However if you follow 419's method, there is little that speaks against combining the two.

I don't know how much will actually pop, or how effective it'll be. A lot of the nationalist rebels have become particularists, and if anyone will declare independence it'll be countries like Hungary which are on the wrong side for me to eat. Ottomans have a pretty big force, and I can't even do my favorite trick where I split them with a bunch of galleys because they have the largest navy in the world.

But I think I can definitely claim some quick Turkish land, have a not-too-long truce during which I can finish eating Lithuania or whatever, and then push them into Europe.

@419 I know you mentioned Humanism and Ottoman tolerance, but what would happen if I were to theoretically take all of their Sunni provinces, maybe even including Constantinople?

If they took Hungary, I take that Austria is mad at them and you can get an alliance?
How much bigger are they? At some point their units get bad, so it might be advised to just dodge them until that happens. Russia has lots of options for expanding, going through timmy or oirat to India is going to give you a lot power relatively fast. Or just take Scandinavia and GB.
Ottomans on the other hand dont have that many options left, the HRE is still the biggest coalition blob in the game, even Ottomans will get a bloody nose if they try to expand there to fast, which might give you an easy option once in a while to beat them. They sometimes take Poland, but if you are in Lithuania you should be able to cut their options down.

Nations that have their capital next to a strait now produce infinite amounts of galleys. They patched the old trick out.
low gravity, yes-yes!
[UoN]Sentinel
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States11320 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-07-13 18:52:30
July 13 2015 18:51 GMT
#2798
On July 14 2015 03:43 Blackfeather wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 14 2015 03:33 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
On July 14 2015 03:18 Blackfeather wrote:
On July 13 2015 10:30 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
[image loading]

Holy shit, I've never seen the Ottomans get this big so fast. They ate Hungary and a piece of Bohemia by 1515, and they just finished their latest Egyptian incursion by the end of 1522. Any advice on dealing with them? My strategy was going to be to conquer a bunch of their Muslim provinces so they convert to Christianity.

Another little hint to beat Ottoblob: Similarily to Russia, the Ottomans have a lot provinces in Asia, while their capital is in Europe. So if you cut their lands in half at near the Asian border, suddenly half of their provinces are distant over sea, produce next to nothing and cost you nothing in the next peacedeal.

419's method is obviously more throughrout, but takes more time and weakens your own country more. So it depends on how much you want to commit to beat them.
However if you follow 419's method, there is little that speaks against combining the two.

I don't know how much will actually pop, or how effective it'll be. A lot of the nationalist rebels have become particularists, and if anyone will declare independence it'll be countries like Hungary which are on the wrong side for me to eat. Ottomans have a pretty big force, and I can't even do my favorite trick where I split them with a bunch of galleys because they have the largest navy in the world.

But I think I can definitely claim some quick Turkish land, have a not-too-long truce during which I can finish eating Lithuania or whatever, and then push them into Europe.

@419 I know you mentioned Humanism and Ottoman tolerance, but what would happen if I were to theoretically take all of their Sunni provinces, maybe even including Constantinople?

If they took Hungary, I take that Austria is mad at them and you can get an alliance?
How much bigger are they? At some point their units get bad, so it might be advised to just dodge them until that happens. Russia has lots of options for expanding, going through timmy or oirat to India is going to give you a lot power relatively fast. Ottomans on the other hand dont have that many options left, the HRE is still the biggest coalition blob in the game, even Ottomans will get a bloody nose if they try to expand there to fast.

Nations that have their capital next to a strait now produce infinite amounts of galleys. They patched the old trick out.

Austria tends to ally the European countries I get into wars with. Maybe if they get into a war I can attack the Ottomans on the other side.

I can play the time game. Denmark is a shell of its former glory and my ally Sweden will gladly join me if we wage war Denmark and Norway (Norway's only ally atm). I've been having some crazy luck with my rulers, 5/6 admin points on each guy, so I've been able to core a lot of territory in the Caucasus and central Asia. I have a lot of options in Asia, with my only real threat being Yarkand (who is now the size of the Ming). I can finish my Lithuania conquest (PU was broken a while back). Really for now I can just freestyle and keep going for the low hanging fruit while I have all this paper mana lying around.

And fuck, that was my go-to for dealing with Ottomans for so long.
Нас зовет дух отцов, память старых бойцов, дух Москвы и твердыня Полтавы
[UoN]Sentinel
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States11320 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-07-14 01:04:12
July 13 2015 23:07 GMT
#2799
[image loading]

And another ruler with high admin. The EU gods must really want my WC to happen. I'm pretty sure Russia had a historically shitty bureaucracy too; I remember reading somewhere that they conquered a Swedish town and found that the Swedes had as much administration in that one town as the Russians did in their whole country.

Edit: Been at war with Ottomans for 3 years. I tried taking my wargoal, Kefe, as a quick endgame boost to warscore, but when I took the two Asian provinces of the Ottomans that connect the Asian part to the European part, the autonomy didn't go to 75% for the rest of the Asian part. How much do I need to take to make the Asian part count as overseas provinces?

I'm going to go back and sit on more provinces for extra warscore (so, 419's strat), and see if I can't somehow wall them off and connect my wall to the Russian mainland.

Edit2: Apparently Anatolia is considered European in EU. Found the new Asian boundary, and it works now!
Нас зовет дух отцов, память старых бойцов, дух Москвы и твердыня Полтавы
nimbim
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany985 Posts
July 14 2015 09:14 GMT
#2800
This is so silly + Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

I'll have to try Circassia again, but for now I'm done.
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