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On September 04 2013 18:29 Sayle wrote:
Am I the only one that thinks the first-person control of siege weapons is the coolest (although mostly useless) feature? I've only played a couple of hours of the prologue, but I spent the majority of the first siege battle giggling while lobbing rocks at people.
I learned last week that they had this in Fall of the Samurai too. Didn't actually originate with Rome II, believe it or not, but I hadn't seen that option yet in this game, so I'm "kinda" glad that's returned.
Attila16 is making a guide for Legendary difficulty already. He probably got early access too. http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=175475859
Food Surplus and City/Province Growth guide too: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=175439507
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I'm done with this game until they start rolling out major patches. I am not particularly hopeful that patches can fix anything but the bugs and some of the AI, however the real reason I don't like the game is what to me appears to be a total lack of quality compared to previous titles.
Right from the start, the intro video was crap. I won't speak of the menu because Shogun 2's animated menu was as much an annoyance as it was pretty to look at. However the overall presentation of this game is a huge step back. The music is completely forgettable and boring. The art is poor, especially unit icons. The UI is a complete mess. It's so many steps back from previous games. It offers almost no information, it takes up more screen space than any previous UI in TW games that I can recall. It's awkward to use. Why are there no family trees? How is removing things like that an improvement to the game?
I could go on and on about performance and bugs but we already know about those. Or how broken the AI is for some reason. Why is diplomacy essentially useless? Could they seriously not notice how having the AI reject everything but the most absurdly unrealistic offers is ridiculous? Visually I also think the game offers nothing. I honestly think Shogun 2 looked better, and didn't suffer from crazy pop ins and LOD issues like this game seems to. I zoom in on my army and suddenly tons of foliage appears, trees and bushes changing shape, etc. It just ruins the look of the game.
This whole game feels like they hired an outside developer to either make or finish large components of the game. For me it's not the bugs, or the performance, it's what seems to be a complete lack of effort. This isn't what they promised at all, this isn't even as good as Shogun 2. If this was a re-skinned Shogun 2 they'd have a significantly better game.
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I find the art quite beautiful, and very well matched with the period
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played it a little and I am really disappointed. Glad I tried it before buying. Not worth getting in my opinion I have more fun playing EB.
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On September 04 2013 22:33 floor exercise wrote:
I could go on and on about performance and bugs but we already know about those. Or how broken the AI is for some reason. Why is diplomacy essentially useless? Could they seriously not notice how having the AI reject everything but the most absurdly unrealistic offers is ridiculous? Visually I also think the game offers nothing. I honestly think Shogun 2 looked better, and didn't suffer from crazy pop ins and LOD issues like this game seems to. I zoom in on my army and suddenly tons of foliage appears, trees and bushes changing shape, etc. It just ruins the look of the game.
Music and UI are not as good, AI in diplomacy is a red herring, you must be doing something wrong because they are the most reasonable of any Total War I have played. Random bugs are expected, reminds me of Empire. It's going to be another one of those games that has masses of depth but people like you are going to miss out...there is SO much to enjoy in this game!!! Oh well, bad luck for people like you...
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On September 04 2013 23:08 sc4k wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2013 22:33 floor exercise wrote:
I could go on and on about performance and bugs but we already know about those. Or how broken the AI is for some reason. Why is diplomacy essentially useless? Could they seriously not notice how having the AI reject everything but the most absurdly unrealistic offers is ridiculous? Visually I also think the game offers nothing. I honestly think Shogun 2 looked better, and didn't suffer from crazy pop ins and LOD issues like this game seems to. I zoom in on my army and suddenly tons of foliage appears, trees and bushes changing shape, etc. It just ruins the look of the game. Music and UI are not as good, AI in diplomacy is a red herring, you must be doing something wrong because they are the most reasonable of any Total War I have played. Random bugs are expected, reminds me of Empire. It's going to be another one of those games that has masses of depth but people like you are going to miss out...there is SO much to enjoy in this game!!! Oh well, bad luck for people like you...
lol depth... its total war...
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On September 04 2013 23:08 sc4k wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2013 22:33 floor exercise wrote:
I could go on and on about performance and bugs but we already know about those. Or how broken the AI is for some reason. Why is diplomacy essentially useless? Could they seriously not notice how having the AI reject everything but the most absurdly unrealistic offers is ridiculous? Visually I also think the game offers nothing. I honestly think Shogun 2 looked better, and didn't suffer from crazy pop ins and LOD issues like this game seems to. I zoom in on my army and suddenly tons of foliage appears, trees and bushes changing shape, etc. It just ruins the look of the game. Music and UI are not as good, AI in diplomacy is a red herring, you must be doing something wrong because they are the most reasonable of any Total War I have played. Random bugs are expected, reminds me of Empire. It's going to be another one of those games that has masses of depth but people like you are going to miss out...there is SO much to enjoy in this game!!! Oh well, bad luck for people like you...
Im as big a rome fan as the next but please care to give me a few examples of what makes this any deeper then any other total war game? Evrrything ive seen up to now from videos to previews to streaming suggest this is basically the typical total war experience nothing omfgwtfbbq groundbreaking for the franchise or genre.
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On September 04 2013 23:14 FromShouri wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2013 23:08 sc4k wrote:On September 04 2013 22:33 floor exercise wrote:
I could go on and on about performance and bugs but we already know about those. Or how broken the AI is for some reason. Why is diplomacy essentially useless? Could they seriously not notice how having the AI reject everything but the most absurdly unrealistic offers is ridiculous? Visually I also think the game offers nothing. I honestly think Shogun 2 looked better, and didn't suffer from crazy pop ins and LOD issues like this game seems to. I zoom in on my army and suddenly tons of foliage appears, trees and bushes changing shape, etc. It just ruins the look of the game. Music and UI are not as good, AI in diplomacy is a red herring, you must be doing something wrong because they are the most reasonable of any Total War I have played. Random bugs are expected, reminds me of Empire. It's going to be another one of those games that has masses of depth but people like you are going to miss out...there is SO much to enjoy in this game!!! Oh well, bad luck for people like you... Im as big a rome fan as the next but please care to give me a few examples of what makes this any deeper then any other total war game? Evrrything ive seen up to now from videos to previews to streaming suggest this is basically the typical total war experience nothing omfgwtfbbq groundbreaking for the franchise or genre.
I gave loads of examples of pros on the last page and they are all examples of things that this has which Rome didn't have. Not to mention the obvious graphical boost. The depth of the game when compared to Rome 1 comes from things like the limited armies, the factions within your faction, the complicated diplomacy relations, the new victory conditions, the more developed agents...the list goes on and on really. This game is going to have A LOT to offer. Considering that Empire was received the same way people are receiving it now, and when one looks back at it, even though it has its problems, it's ludicrously big and rewarding if you invest thought and effort into it!!
+ Show Spoiler +Pros:- new agents are AWESOME and their upgrades are fantastic. So many different things they can do, it's wonderful. - tech tree, upgrade tree etc are great. - diplomacy is better and more varied (and more necessary) - having a limit on the amount of armies, having it tied to the generals, having the generals part of different political families, it's all incredibly brilliant. I absolutely love these features. - naval battles are hard but extremely fun once you get the hang of things. - the fact that you have different families within your own faction is extremely intriguing and the fact that you can assassinate or spread rumours about your rivals is hilarious (I know this is copied from another game but I can't remember which) - God damn it is NOT easy to expand, that is fucking awesome. Playing as Athens on vh (because I consider any easier difficulty the equivalent of wearing a dunce cap), and any direction I try to expand in is bristling with troops. Even the islands of Rhodes and Knossos are stacked with troops. You have to really prepare yourself or catch an aggressor off balance. Cons:- The UI is indeed bizarrely restrictive and less informative and useful than the Rome 1 UI. But more in line with Shogun, it's kind of got a 'streamlined FPS' feel to it. Which is weird because with how little this game explains itself in general, it's not exactly noob friendly! However it's not that confusing if you have played upwards of 1000 hours on total war games as any true fan should have  - My machine is struggling with it - quite big slowdown on the campaign map with high settings although good in battles - didn't experience this with Shogun but did with Empire. - No merchants makes me a sad panda. They were fairly useless but they looked cool >:D. I hoped they would bring over the idea from M2TW. However I haven't played that much, I'm sure there are more pros and cons to be discovered. I have to say that many of the complaints I have seen from people make me think they haven't played previous total war games. Especially the comments about AI. If I had to say what this game feels like, it is something like a mix between Shogun 2 and Empire. It's definitely one of the more ambitious games.
On September 04 2013 23:13 dwoobydoo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2013 23:08 sc4k wrote:On September 04 2013 22:33 floor exercise wrote:
I could go on and on about performance and bugs but we already know about those. Or how broken the AI is for some reason. Why is diplomacy essentially useless? Could they seriously not notice how having the AI reject everything but the most absurdly unrealistic offers is ridiculous? Visually I also think the game offers nothing. I honestly think Shogun 2 looked better, and didn't suffer from crazy pop ins and LOD issues like this game seems to. I zoom in on my army and suddenly tons of foliage appears, trees and bushes changing shape, etc. It just ruins the look of the game. Music and UI are not as good, AI in diplomacy is a red herring, you must be doing something wrong because they are the most reasonable of any Total War I have played. Random bugs are expected, reminds me of Empire. It's going to be another one of those games that has masses of depth but people like you are going to miss out...there is SO much to enjoy in this game!!! Oh well, bad luck for people like you... lol depth... its total war...
Ok so it's far lighter on the campaign map than a universalis or a victoria, and maybe even than civ...but it has an extra HALF GAME which none of those have - the battles. It is the holy grail of its genre, like what would happen in soccer if football manager combined with fifa.
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On September 04 2013 23:14 FromShouri wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2013 23:08 sc4k wrote:On September 04 2013 22:33 floor exercise wrote:
I could go on and on about performance and bugs but we already know about those. Or how broken the AI is for some reason. Why is diplomacy essentially useless? Could they seriously not notice how having the AI reject everything but the most absurdly unrealistic offers is ridiculous? Visually I also think the game offers nothing. I honestly think Shogun 2 looked better, and didn't suffer from crazy pop ins and LOD issues like this game seems to. I zoom in on my army and suddenly tons of foliage appears, trees and bushes changing shape, etc. It just ruins the look of the game. Music and UI are not as good, AI in diplomacy is a red herring, you must be doing something wrong because they are the most reasonable of any Total War I have played. Random bugs are expected, reminds me of Empire. It's going to be another one of those games that has masses of depth but people like you are going to miss out...there is SO much to enjoy in this game!!! Oh well, bad luck for people like you... Im as big a rome fan as the next but please care to give me a few examples of what makes this any deeper then any other total war game? Evrrything ive seen up to now from videos to previews to streaming suggest this is basically the typical total war experience nothing omfgwtfbbq groundbreaking for the franchise or genre.
Province system is groundbreaking. Not only does it add a real difficulty to correctly manage your cities, but it also totally prevent to go full war & snowball effects. You need to macro in this game.
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I really don't understand how building placement works in the province system. Like, sometimes I can build a forum, and sometimes I can't. Same thing with industrial buildings. Has anyone figured out how this works?
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On September 04 2013 23:31 xDaunt wrote:
I really don't understand how building placement works in the province system. Like, sometimes I can build a forum, and sometimes I can't. Same thing with industrial buildings. Has anyone figured out how this works?
Only the capital of the province can build forum, aqueduc etc..
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Does anyone know if you can get the province bonus if you don't actually own one of the regions?
Like through diplomacy or client state?
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On September 04 2013 23:37 sc4k wrote:
Does anyone know if you can get the province bonus if you don't actually own one of the regions?
Like through diplomacy or client state?
you can't. Have to own it. Meaning its better not to make client state with someone who share a province with you
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On September 04 2013 23:43 aXa wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2013 23:37 sc4k wrote:
Does anyone know if you can get the province bonus if you don't actually own one of the regions?
Like through diplomacy or client state? you can't. Have to own it. Meaning its better not to make client state with someone who share a province with you
God damn, well that means I won't get Hellas, because I am bound not to hurt Sparta! The Athenians may look down on the Spartans but they will not turn their blades upon them...I will have to look for sport elsewhere.
Also can anyone flesh out what can happen with your rival families within your faction, can they actually start a civil war?
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On September 04 2013 23:45 sc4k wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2013 23:43 aXa wrote:On September 04 2013 23:37 sc4k wrote:
Does anyone know if you can get the province bonus if you don't actually own one of the regions?
Like through diplomacy or client state? you can't. Have to own it. Meaning its better not to make client state with someone who share a province with you God damn, well that means I won't get Hellas, because I am bound not to hurt Sparta! The Athenians may look down on the Spartans but they will not turn their blades upon them...I will have to look for sport elsewhere. Also can anyone flesh out what can happen with your rival families within your faction, can they actually start a civil war?
I'd like to know aswell. Still didn't figure out how senate influence, factions and all the jazz works.
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On September 04 2013 23:46 aXa wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2013 23:45 sc4k wrote:On September 04 2013 23:43 aXa wrote:On September 04 2013 23:37 sc4k wrote:
Does anyone know if you can get the province bonus if you don't actually own one of the regions?
Like through diplomacy or client state? you can't. Have to own it. Meaning its better not to make client state with someone who share a province with you God damn, well that means I won't get Hellas, because I am bound not to hurt Sparta! The Athenians may look down on the Spartans but they will not turn their blades upon them...I will have to look for sport elsewhere. Also can anyone flesh out what can happen with your rival families within your faction, can they actually start a civil war? I'd like to know aswell. Still didn't figure out how senate influence, factions and all the jazz works.
Edit: Just noticed i had a -4 faction in public order. Unsure why.
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Sorry for double post, pressed "quote" instead of edit ..
Edit: Just noticed i had a "-4 faction" in public order. Unsure why.[/QUOTE]
Had also my first crash when switching units between generals
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Only got to play for a couple hours last night sadly, but ill sum things up for my opinion:
I miss the family tree, really liked it in Shogun.
The new battle UI is terrible, not being able to see stats that were given in Shogun 2, with a bigger UI is strange. Also there are simply less things you can do with the new battle UI, is really mouse dependent,
I hate the new "only 3 armies" thing... I am one of those people who likes to spread my armies as thin as possible meaning i have to outplay in the actual battles to achieve victory... but requiring 2 of my generals to stand side by side just to exchange army tiles, is really annoying. Sometimes a sieging general just needs 1-3 more tiles of troops... I shouldnt have to send a 2nd general just to give him 3 more troop tiles.
I dont understand/prefer the new method/UI for city building... its overly complicated, with a worse UI again than Shogun 2.
I do like that the size of your city actually grows on the in-game map tho, pretty cool.
IDK i really hate the new UI for everything... the campaign map, the battle maps, etc. The UI overrall is a definite step backwards. I have yet to find out how to see the TRUE status of my units in a fight (how in Shogun it would say things like "Winded" "Sustaining casualties" "Winning Slightly" etc... in this game its just a "morale" bar.
Also dont understand why they decided to give less information than they did in Shogun for things like family, morale, background etc.
Also I like the map, there are a LOT more significant choke points on the map (which i guess is how they made only having 3 armies managable). Map placement is definitely bigger and more important than it was in shogun 2.
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So what exactly do I have to do to expand the number of edicts and armies that I am allowed? I own 4 provinces (Italia, Magna Graecia, Corsica et Sardinia, and Cisalpina), yet I only get 2 edicts and 6 armies. Is there another cap based upon the number of provinces that you own? Is there something that you have to upgrade in the provincial capitals?
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On September 05 2013 00:25 MaestroSC wrote:
I hate the new "only 3 armies" thing... I am one of those people who likes to spread my armies as thin as possible meaning i have to outplay in the actual battles to achieve victory... but requiring 2 of my generals to stand side by side just to exchange army tiles, is really annoying. Sometimes a sieging general just needs 1-3 more tiles of troops... I shouldnt have to send a 2nd general just to give him 3 more troop tiles.
You get more armies the bigger you grow. And yeah of course you like to spread your army, everyone does, it allwos you to gimp your way to victory much more easily. But it's not even remotely realistic. It's far more realistic having legions out in the field that require supply and coordination to get on the go! And the fact that your armies retain character after the general dies is freaking awesome. AND the fact that you can name them is very fun  . I like calling my fleets Kraken and Leviathan.
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EPT
