|
Kyrgyz Republic1462 Posts
On October 16 2012 21:42 daemir wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2012 20:39 Random() wrote:On October 16 2012 20:29 BlueSpace wrote:
... I don't mind so much that they simplified the classes ... Simplified by adding them?  There was as many classes in original that you cared to invent  and yea, fly up on snipers turn one and deploy scanners, then start moving rest of the squad. Or wait for turn 2 as well to overwatch the snipers before moving at all. It's not like this shit didn't happen in original, first man out of the landing craft gets reaction shot in the back? You threw smoke grenade turn 1 and nothing else.
The "dude with a heavy plasma" class usually solved all your problems. Or would you consider "suicide scout" to be a legit class too? :D
|
On October 16 2012 21:42 daemir wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2012 20:39 Random() wrote:On October 16 2012 20:29 BlueSpace wrote:
... I don't mind so much that they simplified the classes ... Simplified by adding them? There was as many classes in original that you cared to invent
There were no "official" classes in the original XCom, but you had to evaluate the stats of the soldiers and see what they are most suited to do and would then decide which weapon class they should use. Someone with good aim and low strength would usually not end up getting the rocket launcher ("Heavy") because you would have trouble carrying sufficient ammo with him. "Snipers" could live with a bit lower move, while "assault" needed high move and high aim. And then there was also of course reaction...
I also had those specialized grenade "throwers"... One pistol and only grenades... lots of grenades...
On October 16 2012 21:42 daemir wrote:
So my point was that I don't mind, that they standardized this, although it takes away a little from the uniqueness of the soldiers.
It's not like this shit didn't happen in original, first man out of the landing craft gets reaction shot in the back? You threw smoke grenade turn 1 and nothing else.
I didn't say that it didn't happen. It was similar, but now it feels awkward, because there are no incremental moves. I always have to move the "full" way. In fact a lot more in the original was about careful orchestrated positioning. I don't get why they removed the TU, because I think they worked so beautifully in the original. Most of the other changes I can somehow find positive aspects in, but I really struggle to understand why they removed this core mechanic 
|
Canada8033 Posts
While I do agree that the TU system was excellent in terms of encouraging positioning and strategy, I can understand why they removed it. The learning curve was a bit too harsh. I remember getting caught in the open a lot of times when I was first starting out simply because judging TU usage isn't that intuitive at first. In contrast, the two action system in the new game is a lot easier to understand at first glance. Since the entire point of the remake seems to be to make the series more accessible for modern gamers, the TU system just ended up getting cut.
One of the things I wish they hadn't removed is freedom of aiming for regular weapons. It's a simple mechanic, and I feel it really added a lot to the game in terms of strategy. As it stands, the only way to break cover and/or walls is to suppress, miss shots (hitting other objects in the process), or to use explosives. Having to waste explosives just to break through a wall seems like a really expensive price to pay, considering how limited your supply of explosives is to begin with.
Another thing I find a bit odd is the accuracy of rocket usage. For instance, the chance of you hitting a large truck is exactly the same as hitting a floater in mid-air. Having a straight 90% hit chance kinda turns rockets into a get out of jail free card, wherein you can kill groups of enemies away without significant risk to your own troops. A couple of times in my own playthrough, I've used rockets to clear out aliens within inches of my own guys, which is ridiculous. I never would've attempted this in the original due to the fact that my own guys probably would've been blown to kingdom come. All I want is for rocket trajectories to vary by 1-2 squares in any direction, just to add a little bit of uncertainty into the mix. In short, aiming should be less about "how can I maximize damage with this rocket?", and more "how can I guarantee damage with this rocket?"
|
Kyrgyz Republic1462 Posts
On October 16 2012 22:37 BlueSpace wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2012 21:42 daemir wrote:On October 16 2012 20:39 Random() wrote:On October 16 2012 20:29 BlueSpace wrote:
... I don't mind so much that they simplified the classes ... Simplified by adding them? There was as many classes in original that you cared to invent There were no "official" classes in the original XCom, but you had to evaluate the stats of the soldiers and see what they are most suited to do and would then decide which weapon class they should use. Someone with good aim and low strength would usually not end up getting the rocket launcher ("Heavy") because you would have trouble carrying sufficient ammo with him. "Snipers" could live with a bit lower move, while "assault" needed high move and high aim. And then there was also of course reaction... I also had those specialized grenade "throwers"... One pistol and only grenades... lots of grenades... Show nested quote +On October 16 2012 21:42 daemir wrote:
So my point was that I don't mind, that they standardized this, although it takes away a little from the uniqueness of the soldiers.
It's not like this shit didn't happen in original, first man out of the landing craft gets reaction shot in the back? You threw smoke grenade turn 1 and nothing else. I didn't say that it didn't happen. It was similar, but now it feels awkward, because there are no incremental moves. I always have to move the "full" way. In fact a lot more in the original was about careful orchestrated positioning. I don't get why they removed the TU, because I think they worked so beautifully in the original. Most of the other changes I can somehow find positive aspects in, but I really struggle to understand why they removed this core mechanic
While I agree that TUs are somewhat more flexible than the two actions per turn system, there were awkward situations created by the TU system too. For example, it was very hard or impossible to tell how many TUs a soldier would spend walking somewhere. Then you had the "reserve TUs for a shot" button which should in theory have helped with that, but even if you used it and the soldier stopped, often it turned out that he had to turn just a bit to shoot, and well, he no longer had enough TUs. He would also first make the turn, spending that 1 precious TU, and then report that he was unable to shoot. This was frustrating, because if you realized that earlier maybe you could have selected another target.
TU scaling also was not obvious. If a soldiers gets better and becomes able to do more in a given amount of time, isn't it logical that he would be able to aim more quickly? No, TUs for shooting were always calculated as a percentage. However for some reason this didn't affect the Psi-Amp.
|
Anyone else using a support colonel with no medikit upgrades? Seems to be an excellent frontline tank with the upgraded defense smoke grenade and multiple reaction shots on one target. However, I am reconsidering getting "dense smoke" on him as it wastes a turn where he could overwatch; maybe more ideal for the medic support to bring this ability and give the sentinel the offensive / will grenade for "final boss" rooms such as sectoid commanders on UFO missions...
|
As far as tanking goes, Assaults seem much better at it, so I'd rather have a tanky Assault and have my Supports heal.
|
The problem with using the support as a scout/tank/overwatch specialist is his limited weapon choice, and lack of damage increases. Sure, two overwatch shots is nice, but a single overwatch shot from most classes in equivalent weapon tiers will do similar damage. The other problem is that especially for the difficult story missions, which are much longer than the usual missions, you'll absolutely need significant healing, so you'll have to level up at least two supports, if not three if you're using one to do damage.
|
Supports with Sprinter perk and Skeleton Armour have hilarious move range. Hands down best scouts ever. They do lack the damage of an Assault / Heavy, but despite that I always take two with me on missions. Ground coverage they provide is just way too nice to not take.
|
By the way, we don't have green-white police cars in Germany any more since 2006. I just saw a few standing around in Enemy Unknown. In a transition phase in the early 2000s, we've been using green-silver and now we have blue-silver in every single Bundesland.
![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4f/BPOL-BMW-blau-silber.JPG/800px-BPOL-BMW-blau-silber.JPG)
|
On October 17 2012 12:07 Perscienter wrote:By the way, we don't have green-white police cars in Germany any more since 2006. I just saw a few standing around in Enemy Unknown. In a transition phase in the early 2000s, we've been using green-silver and now we have blue-silver in every single Bundesland. + Show Spoiler +
WELL IN THE FUTURE THEY COME BACK OKAY?
|
On October 17 2012 12:23 seRapH wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2012 12:07 Perscienter wrote:By the way, we don't have green-white police cars in Germany any more since 2006. I just saw a few standing around in Enemy Unknown. In a transition phase in the early 2000s, we've been using green-silver and now we have blue-silver in every single Bundesland. + Show Spoiler + WELL IN THE FUTURE THEY COME BACK OKAY?
I'm pretty sure they they don't have coniferous forests in Egypt either, but I killed some aliens there anyways.
I was finally making progress on my Classic Ironman game. Then I was slightly out of position, and managed to spawn in 3 flanking floaters with my last move. Who all got crits. Everyone died, 5 nations left the council immediatly.
After a moment of silence for the doomed world, time to try again I guess.
|
Just got the game today, having a lot of fun with it. Playing on normal because I'm not crazy, and because I want to get a feel for the game before I try a harder difficulty- might do that on a later playthrough. I'm having fun so far- it's really challenging yet I feel like I have a good handle on things. Only one of my dudes died so far, before he specialized though. I like the customization options too, it's fun naming all my dudes after action heroes and stuff.
So far I've been able to make it through with only minor injuries simply by advancing really slowly, although I imagine that this changes later in the game. Having a lot of success with the one sniper that I've managed to get so far, with my heavy providing supporting fire and my assault/supports scouting and tanking damage.
|
On October 17 2012 15:39 DystopiaX wrote:
Just got the game today, having a lot of fun with it. Playing on normal because I'm not crazy, and because I want to get a feel for the game before I try a harder difficulty- might do that on a later playthrough. I'm having fun so far- it's really challenging yet I feel like I have a good handle on things. Only one of my dudes died so far, before he specialized though. I like the customization options too, it's fun naming all my dudes after action heroes and stuff.
So far I've been able to make it through with only minor injuries simply by advancing really slowly, although I imagine that this changes later in the game. Having a lot of success with the one sniper that I've managed to get so far, with my heavy providing supporting fire and my assault/supports scouting and tanking damage.
I started on classic and while the early game was challenging I am now at the point where I have a full squad of colonels and nothing really hurts me if I dont take any riscs. Because of that I decided to start over on impossible ironman. I just dont wanna finish the game feeling completely OP as it leaves an empty feeling behind.
Btw does anyone know how to take a screenshot in this game? Prolly just me thats stupid but I would still like to know how.
|
On October 17 2012 19:56 DaCruise wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2012 15:39 DystopiaX wrote:
Just got the game today, having a lot of fun with it. Playing on normal because I'm not crazy, and because I want to get a feel for the game before I try a harder difficulty- might do that on a later playthrough. I'm having fun so far- it's really challenging yet I feel like I have a good handle on things. Only one of my dudes died so far, before he specialized though. I like the customization options too, it's fun naming all my dudes after action heroes and stuff.
So far I've been able to make it through with only minor injuries simply by advancing really slowly, although I imagine that this changes later in the game. Having a lot of success with the one sniper that I've managed to get so far, with my heavy providing supporting fire and my assault/supports scouting and tanking damage. I started on classic and while the early game was challenging I am now at the point where I have a full squad of colonels and nothing really hurts me if I dont take any riscs. Because of that I decided to start over on impossible ironman. I just dont wanna finish the game feeling completely OP as it leaves an empty feeling behind. Btw does anyone know how to take a screenshot in this game? Prolly just me thats stupid but I would still like to know how.
If you have the game on Steam press F12 to take a screenshot. Otherwise press Print and copy it into Paint or something like that.
|
On October 17 2012 19:56 DaCruise wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2012 15:39 DystopiaX wrote:
Just got the game today, having a lot of fun with it. Playing on normal because I'm not crazy, and because I want to get a feel for the game before I try a harder difficulty- might do that on a later playthrough. I'm having fun so far- it's really challenging yet I feel like I have a good handle on things. Only one of my dudes died so far, before he specialized though. I like the customization options too, it's fun naming all my dudes after action heroes and stuff.
So far I've been able to make it through with only minor injuries simply by advancing really slowly, although I imagine that this changes later in the game. Having a lot of success with the one sniper that I've managed to get so far, with my heavy providing supporting fire and my assault/supports scouting and tanking damage. I started on classic and while the early game was challenging I am now at the point where I have a full squad of colonels and nothing really hurts me if I dont take any riscs. Because of that I decided to start over on impossible ironman. I just dont wanna finish the game feeling completely OP as it leaves an empty feeling behind. Btw does anyone know how to take a screenshot in this game? Prolly just me thats stupid but I would still like to know how.
I ran into same problem and managed to figure out how to fix it. So I started over without using snipers. I only used one for one mission and only because I had nobody else available at the time and I only used his pistol for the whole mission and 1 frag. I also sent him forward to scout and with my best efforts I didn't manage to kill him :D
Anyways, once you get to late game without snipers your whole gameplan changes and the game is more interesting.
|
Ugh how do I beat the first terror mission on classic? I can make it there without getting messed up, but once I get there I either get fucked by RNG or wrecked by massive amounts of zombies due to crysalids. I can kill the crysalids pretty fast but then I get flanked by floaters....help?
|
On October 17 2012 21:56 Coriolis wrote:
Ugh how do I beat the first terror mission on classic? I can make it there without getting messed up, but once I get there I either get fucked by RNG or wrecked by massive amounts of zombies due to crysalids. I can kill the crysalids pretty fast but then I get flanked by floaters....help?
Proceed extremely slowly. Ignore civilians, let them die, it doesn't matter. Chasing civilians is the best way to throw the mission, just go from cover to cover, stick together and when chryssalids appear, throw everything at them.
|
Most frustrating game i've ever played. I actually enjoyed the global strategy part a lot, but the missions are stupid. I guess it's a simple fact the fights are based on percentages and i can't argue against that design decision, but the hit numbers often feel completely random (they hardly have anything to do with what is being displayed by the graphics) and it's not unusual that hit percentages seem to have nothing to do with real occuring things (like shoting twice in a row with 92% and double missing?)
I know my statistics and probabilities, but the fights are way too frustrating.
|
On October 16 2012 23:22 Spazer wrote:
While I do agree that the TU system was excellent in terms of encouraging positioning and strategy, I can understand why they removed it. The learning curve was a bit too harsh. I remember getting caught in the open a lot of times when I was first starting out simply because judging TU usage isn't that intuitive at first. In contrast, the two action system in the new game is a lot easier to understand at first glance. Since the entire point of the remake seems to be to make the series more accessible for modern gamers, the TU system just ended up getting cut.
One of the things I wish they hadn't removed is freedom of aiming for regular weapons. It's a simple mechanic, and I feel it really added a lot to the game in terms of strategy. As it stands, the only way to break cover and/or walls is to suppress, miss shots (hitting other objects in the process), or to use explosives. Having to waste explosives just to break through a wall seems like a really expensive price to pay, considering how limited your supply of explosives is to begin with.
Another thing I find a bit odd is the accuracy of rocket usage. For instance, the chance of you hitting a large truck is exactly the same as hitting a floater in mid-air. Having a straight 90% hit chance kinda turns rockets into a get out of jail free card, wherein you can kill groups of enemies away without significant risk to your own troops. A couple of times in my own playthrough, I've used rockets to clear out aliens within inches of my own guys, which is ridiculous. I never would've attempted this in the original due to the fact that my own guys probably would've been blown to kingdom come. All I want is for rocket trajectories to vary by 1-2 squares in any direction, just to add a little bit of uncertainty into the mix. In short, aiming should be less about "how can I maximize damage with this rocket?", and more "how can I guarantee damage with this rocket?"
Well they did include one (bad) rocket accuracy mechanic that I noticed, which is the possibility of a critical fail. Sometimes your rocket just goes in completely the wrong direction and the game tells you the aiming mechanism slipped or some bullshit.
|
On October 17 2012 21:56 Coriolis wrote:
Ugh how do I beat the first terror mission on classic? I can make it there without getting messed up, but once I get there I either get fucked by RNG or wrecked by massive amounts of zombies due to crysalids. I can kill the crysalids pretty fast but then I get flanked by floaters....help?
I got fucked 4 times on my first terror and had to restart. I basically got 2nd tier armor before it, but then i got lucky on RNG and the chryssalids spawned right in front of me after my first turn, i got a couple potshots on them then used a rocket to finish them, they didnt get any civilians or anything :D
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
