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On May 18 2012 05:23 Arolis wrote:Also I'd like to comment on how ladder without an ELO rating is silly. The margin between first place and 20th place seems really close to me. But I guess it's thematically apropriate with an RNG style game like this.
Amen. I've been very disappointed by this aspect, because it really isn't a contest of who has the best deck, but instead who can beat up on people with poor decks the most effectively. Playtesting against my friends is basically useless unless I can convince them to play intentionally bad decks.
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Deck construction is actually really similar to mtg. The biggest difference is that there is only one resource in sg, the deck, compared to mtg, which has land and cards in the deck/hand.
For PvP, you want to both have answers, and threats. Strong followers and buffs fall into the threats category, while removal, debuffs, and fodder fall into the answers category. Your answers will be either played as responsive, or blindly. It all boils down to reading your opponent at that point. The main thing that makes PvP complex in sg is the mind games and being able to read plays, since information is not disclosed until the turn starts. The ratio of threats to answers is completely dependant on the style of play you are going for. Keep in mind though, this is just the bare skeletons of PvP.
For PvE, you really just want a deck that can clear floors extremely fast, most effectively through the use of snowballing, and then fixing up our deck to deal with specific bosses (siding in heal spells or balance against aggressive bosses such as vamp god for example).
The main difference is the goals you want to achieve between the two modes. PvE, you want to go for the highest wins/time, while for PvP it depends on your strategy (swarm, stall, midrange, etc).
About the ladder thing, that is the main thing I don't understand about the whole event. There is a supposed hidden elo for fight, where you will get matched based on dp, but also based on how many wins you have (unconfirmed, I could be wrong). Why wasn't there such a system for ladder?
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fun game
new players: DO not spend tokens on boosters and shit, spend them on the bronze premium select screens after battles for materials
then craft the deck you want
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Getting a problem, I click Play Now and the popup window shows up, I pick my channel, and it loads, but after that all I have is a yellow screen. Any help?
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For PvE, does getting a better rank give better materials? If rank B is better than D, should I make a deck doesn't win in less than 3 turns?
And by snowballing, do you mean buffing one single fellower?
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No, getting a higher rank in dungeons will not get you more materials. The floors have preset rewards.
Yes, snowballing is buffing 1 or 2 followers to the point of unstoppable.
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Ah I see. So rank only matters in PvP. I am beginner crux (knight deck with luthica), and I think I have some good spells for snowballing:
Education Results,
Meadow Leisure,
close encounter,
saint's blessing,
Any other spell rec?
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PVP constantly changes all the time and it's really hard to pinpoint exactly what makes it
Generally wha tmakes PVP decks not work in PVE is that PVE decks are crammed full of expensive d-rares and overlimit cards, as well as the fact that PVE characters have waaay more life than usual
Also i barely made top 100 i think (lol) with my mishmash of crap and awesome decks that i tried out. It was mostly a learning experience (though i could have run the wedding dress rosa deck and gotten first and second with sharp :D but i didnt  )
One deck i was running for a large portion of it was basically a NDV swarm deck (a classic)
NDV character hits for 3 stam and gains 1 life every turn. Your deck is basically chock full of high attack, low size (needs 7 attack if size 2 minimum, needs 5 atk for size 1 minimum)
The main advantages of this are fairly simple
Firstly, your size to attack ratio is very efficient. Thus you can take out a size 4 with just 2-3 attacks, and if you lose two followers in the process, thats OK, you've done more damage than you've lost.
You're mostly safe vs direct damage, except from AOE removal like meteor call or mass recall
In general you jus tspam out high attack followers and hope to kill whatever you can, and if you're left with guys on your side afterwards, thats a bonus. NDV on her own has a decent ability which will usually kill off a follower for you since it's common to get high def followers to low life like that
You also have a lot of followers which makes it good synergy with meteor call
You also are very likely to cycle through your entire deck just playing all the cards because you wont lose much life from having them die, so you have a lot of control over your deck, making certain cards like genius student nanai and crux command and sacrifice, much more powerful cards than they usually are.
Disadvantages are obviously losing to followers that can easily tank all the damage and auto snowball (so sita, cinia, iri etc. - a lot of the ep 5 stuff)
Vita is particularly good at doing this
Any kind of aoe removal will screw you since the majority of your followers wont have more than 4 STA, so meteor call = you lose your board. Mass recall screws you too
Also you run out of deck very quickly, so lifegain decks are very strong vs you as they will deck you out fast.
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Another deck was marlis's deck which basically took all the OP followers (about 8 of them) and then shoved in onsen sita, swap spell, and occult jarvis (tank), feast, curse of mistrust, hartoless bulo
Basically, onsen sita destroys any swarm/board filling
It also targets slots 2-4, and swap spell targets slot 1, so you can deal with most of the board
OP followers wipe boards on their own generally
Feast is just imba life gain, as is heartless blow for removal
Swap spell is used together with jarvis to basically tank damage, stop yourself from taking damage etc. You can also use curse of mistrust to sacrifice low hp followers to avoid damage
So it's a deck with lots of strong followers and killing power, but also a lot of life gain and lifeloss prevention
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Then theres the wedding rosa deck which basically rapes the shit out of everything and got no 1 on ladder, and i was too pussy to use it D:
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That pretty much covers the essentials.
I picked up enough seeker followers to enable me to play power control, which I added to my collection of buff spells.
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On May 18 2012 06:43 nosliw wrote:
Ah I see. So rank only matters in PvP. I am beginner crux (knight deck with luthica), and I think I have some good spells for snowballing:
Education Results,
Meadow Leisure,
close encounter,
saint's blessing,
Any other spell rec?
If you want to keep going down the crux route (up to you, i think pve is easiest with vita) you should start picking up the good followers (luthera, vanguard, sinclair, lydia come to mind)
If you REALLY wanna go down the route, you can also pickup all the buffing d-rares that crooks gives to replace your weaker buffs
Personally i used 3x chrono clock, 2x kana, 3x education, 3 meadow leisure
Chrono clock is the best buff because eventually your followers are just big fatties that self snowball, so -size is a big deal (also saves you a lot of hp in dungeons that matters)
In general, d-rares are a good idea to get as they are great for both pve and pvp
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On May 18 2012 07:03 BrTarolg wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2012 06:43 nosliw wrote:
Ah I see. So rank only matters in PvP. I am beginner crux (knight deck with luthica), and I think I have some good spells for snowballing:
Education Results,
Meadow Leisure,
close encounter,
saint's blessing,
Any other spell rec? If you want to keep going down the crux route (up to you, i think pve is easiest with vita) you should start picking up the good followers (luthera, vanguard, sinclair, lydia come to mind) If you REALLY wanna go down the route, you can also pickup all the buffing d-rares that crooks gives to replace your weaker buffs Personally i used 3x chrono clock, 2x kana, 3x education, 3 meadow leisure Chrono clock is the best buff because eventually your followers are just big fatties that self snowball, so -size is a big deal (also saves you a lot of hp in dungeons that matters) In general, d-rares are a good idea to get as they are great for both pve and pvp
Seeker Director is pretty good too. Especially when the computer plays a Vita deck. I only keep one Seeker Director in my deck. I would advice against having more than 2.
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I don't like chrono clock as a buff spell for pve since reducing size also means reducing damage you will deal. I played with it before and it ends up stalling the game longer than without it.
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yay! got an A on my first deck out win!
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Alright so I tried my hand at making a control deck.. it may have a bad follower:spell ratio though
akiSa's deck~
Any suggestions/critique/general hate would be awesome >.>
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On May 18 2012 10:34 akisa wrote:Alright so I tried my hand at making a control deck.. it may have a bad follower:spell ratio though akiSa's deck~Any suggestions/critique/general hate would be awesome >.>
Yeah, there's a lot wrong with that deck. First of all, you only have 10 followers, which is not nearly enough, especially with Nold lowering your field size. 15 should be the bare minimum unless you really know what you're doing, but my Child Nold deck runs 17 relatively high cost followers and that works out fine.
Your deck isn't really control, it doesn't have any particular focus at all to be honest. It's lacking synergy between the cards. Take out Sacrifice, Heartless Blow, and Mother Demon Rumor as they are all rather unplayable. Focus on making a 5-3-2 curve since you're utilizing Nold, you want your followers to mostly cost 3 or 5. 4 is quite bad because it eats -1 size bonuses from Nold after two turns, and it gives you less flexibility than 3 in terms of playing the correct number of cards to utilize Nold. The only 4 I might run is 2S Agent Nine and Fated Rival Seven if you have her. Nold is pretty decent with the starter academy cards; Mop Maid/Guard Maid/Silent Maid/Cultist Maid are all good with her if you want to go for a maid theme. I don't see the reason to be branching out into other factions for followers, especially since you have Mass Recall. 2S Agent Nine is just better than Luthera and most of your off-faction cards don't work particularly well in the deck. Battle Sita is fine of course, you'll also want Crimson Witch Cinia.
For spells, 3 Unionize is too many, they're too situational to play more than 1 or 2 since you often won't be able to cast them. Meadow Leisure is probably a worse buff than Black Magic Plot (which should be an auto-3x) or Shift Change. You can also run some 3-size spells like Maid Revolution or Meteor Call, but don't run too many since it messes with your curve. Shrink and Ward are both great, try to find a couple of 1-cost cards also to abuse Nold more easily. The 1size spells are pretty lacking, so you might have to play a Layna or a couple of Fanatic Sarahs or something. It isn't required, but it does make the deck run smoother.
Edit: Oh, and speaking from personal experience, this deck's biggest weakness is small followers snowballing. Mass Recall is really your only panic button if they get a Wall Climbed Layna, or if your Servant's Ward just misses the problem follower. I never came up with a good answer for it, though I was DP capped. Pilgrimage seems like it deals with the problem okay, but you might also want to consider stuff like Maximum Drive, 1 Dark Secret + 1 Forced Entry + 1 Swap Spell, or other creative solutions. Unionize and Meteor Call simply don't address the weaknesses that I found while playing the deck.
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On May 18 2012 05:18 nosliw wrote:
what would be the biggest difference between a PvP vs PvE deck?
PvP is meant to maximize win % against others with a similar objective. PvE is meant to minimize the average number of turns to victory against oftentimes blatantly cheating NPCs.
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On May 18 2012 19:15 Cel.erity wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2012 10:34 akisa wrote:Alright so I tried my hand at making a control deck.. it may have a bad follower:spell ratio though akiSa's deck~Any suggestions/critique/general hate would be awesome >.> Yeah, there's a lot wrong with that deck. First of all, you only have 10 followers, which is not nearly enough, especially with Nold lowering your field size. 15 should be the bare minimum unless you really know what you're doing, but my Child Nold deck runs 17 relatively high cost followers and that works out fine. Your deck isn't really control, it doesn't have any particular focus at all to be honest. It's lacking synergy between the cards. Take out Sacrifice, Heartless Blow, and Mother Demon Rumor as they are all rather unplayable. Focus on making a 5-3-2 curve since you're utilizing Nold, you want your followers to mostly cost 3 or 5. 4 is quite bad because it eats -1 size bonuses from Nold after two turns, and it gives you less flexibility than 3 in terms of playing the correct number of cards to utilize Nold. The only 4 I might run is 2S Agent Nine and Fated Rival Seven if you have her. Nold is pretty decent with the starter academy cards; Mop Maid/Guard Maid/Silent Maid/Cultist Maid are all good with her if you want to go for a maid theme. I don't see the reason to be branching out into other factions for followers, especially since you have Mass Recall. 2S Agent Nine is just better than Luthera and most of your off-faction cards don't work particularly well in the deck. Battle Sita is fine of course, you'll also want Crimson Witch Cinia. For spells, 3 Unionize is too many, they're too situational to play more than 1 or 2 since you often won't be able to cast them. Meadow Leisure is probably a worse buff than Black Magic Plot (which should be an auto-3x) or Shift Change. You can also run some 3-size spells like Maid Revolution or Meteor Call, but don't run too many since it messes with your curve. Shrink and Ward are both great, try to find a couple of 1-cost cards also to abuse Nold more easily. The 1size spells are pretty lacking, so you might have to play a Layna or a couple of Fanatic Sarahs or something. It isn't required, but it does make the deck run smoother. Edit: Oh, and speaking from personal experience, this deck's biggest weakness is small followers snowballing. Mass Recall is really your only panic button if they get a Wall Climbed Layna, or if your Servant's Ward just misses the problem follower. I never came up with a good answer for it, though I was DP capped. Pilgrimage seems like it deals with the problem okay, but you might also want to consider stuff like Maximum Drive, 1 Dark Secret + 1 Forced Entry + 1 Swap Spell, or other creative solutions. Unionize and Meteor Call simply don't address the weaknesses that I found while playing the deck.
Honestly, the only thing I was thinking of when making it was having somewhat resilient followers who are better when the other side of the field gets debuffed or something. I never knew Sacrifice was unplayable though, but now that you mention it, it's usually a dead card unless it's winning the game, but something else would be better in that situation anyway; from testing with it (in other decks) mother demon rumor whiffs a lot, or hits irrelevant targets (as it's so easy to play around,) so you'd be right again.
Branching into other factions.. I never really intended to, (and I forgot about Agent Nine, even though that's the sort of effect I was looking for in the followers.)
-- "Battle Sita is fine of course, you'll also want Crimson Witch Cinia."
Just fine? Sita seemed absurd to me (I'm fairly new to Sword Girls so my value of certain cards are guaranteed to be wrong.) Cinia's also absurd, I was probably going to work on her after I got my recall (which I plan to get by using the seeker lydia (to make the double rare) I made when I thought crux was where I wanted to be.) (It's hard to get stockings though)
3 Unionize too many? Is it because for it to be the catch-all removal you had to have a relatively low size field/hand? (making it not always hold that level of versatility?)
However, I need to get a taste of higher DP gameplay, so thanks a lot for the reply, it gave me a lot of insight into it.
Edit: Speaking of stockings being hard to get.. is there any way to get them reliably? (I notice that after 10 clears they stop showing up..)
Edit:Edit: What 5 size follower(s) would you recommend? I think I'm being too harsh on the 5 sized ones, they just all seem so vanilla. (not including the crux ones)
Edit:Edit:Edit: Also how bad is exchanging cards for materials?
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Edit: nvm, i just realized how old that news was
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You can always fight vs my NDV deck (it's pretty standard) and my up and coming lig deck if you're looking for some of the common archetypes to test against, just hit me up in the swordgirls irc (not the TL one, since that one died pretty much D
Exchanging cards for materials is TERRIBLE. like, REALLY bad.
In terms of your deck, you have to work out what you're trying to accomplish first, and then you'll end up tweaking it a lot as you playtest it. I find it's better to have an idea in mind and work towards perfecting that idea, as opposed to starting with good cards and finding ideas from it (though each to their own)
You'll often run into dead end ideas though. My origional attempts at st idol clarice tea time/maid revolution decks were pretty horrible, and generally didn't work out since tea time and maid revolution just arn't strong eonugh buffs (compared to lineage for example)
Good ideas are for example, swarm decks, decks based around certain spells (lineage), +size decks
Marlis's deck for example ran a lot of the "strong followers" (sita, gart, iri, nanai etc.) but had a theme of damage avoidance tied around it, with the idea that abusing lifegain with a deck that has a very high power/card efficiency is a good way of outlasting your opponent without being in danger of decking out. He used the advantages of this kind of style (long lasting cards) to help other parts of his deck (STA burn on 2-4 slots, swap on first slot, swap damaged followers away, playing only a few, high size followers, only 13/17 folllowers i believe etc)
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On May 19 2012 03:22 BrTarolg wrote:You can always fight vs my NDV deck (it's pretty standard) and my up and coming lig deck if you're looking for some of the common archetypes to test against, just hit me up in the swordgirls irc (not the TL one, since that one died pretty much D
I'm switching from my terrible crux kana deck to this one so.. I have very few of the cards at the moment, so it'll be a little while before I'm up to speed. zz Which irc server is the swordgirls channel on?
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EPT
