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On September 12 2013 08:53 Fatalize wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2013 08:48 Leporello wrote:On September 12 2013 08:13 Fatalize wrote:I guess the overall feel is that TDD is a better game whereas AMFP is a better story. There are a lot of mechanics missing, puzzles are really simple and the game has less jumpscares/monsters/chases. However the story in itself is a lot more twisted and deeply wrong compared to TDD. In TDD it's all about killing Alexander and that supernatural shadow following you, but that's it. In AMFP the story is a lot more intricate and well written I feel. Also, the music and voice acting are truly excellent spoiler + Show Spoiler +And the ending scene where you walk to the machine to rip your heart is both beautiful and terrifying in a psychological way. The Machine's monologue is gorgeous. So yeah TDD is probably the better game but AMFP is the better story and narration. Were you to write them as books, AMFP would be a way better read. Also, as a side note, LOL at people complaining about the obsolete words and language. It's supposed to happen in 1899, so the old language IS mandatory to set the atmosphere. It wouldnt be half as good if the english level was that of a 15 yo kid born in the 90s. I've also seen people in streams laugh at the various "I am come" that are in the notes, which is sad. English unfortunately simplified all its grammar and language rules during the last century. No. I get that it's supposed to be obsolete and Dickensian, Old English. The problem is it tries too hard. It embellishes too much. It isn't Dickensian, it's a thesaurus-lover's wet dream. Also, a lot of Victorian literature, especially Dickens, was not at ALL representative of how people actually talked. Like The Pickwick Papers, the abundant formality of language is itself a joke. Dear Esther had the same problem. ...there is no culture of poetry and well-written texts in english compared to...
Yeah, thanks for sharing.
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Finished the game, some last maybe spoilery thoughts. + Show Spoiler +Completed the game in under 4 hours according to steam.. not happy at all. I don't think I got a fright once outside of the jump-loud-noise scares. The original Amnesia took me like 10 hours to complete because I was so scared and moved so slowly. Nothing like that in this game. The flickering light every time an enemy is near? Not only does it feel ripped straight from FEAR, it was the one bad thing about FEAR. Why would you want to know when shits about to go down? Ruins any suspense. I thought the puzzles were bad, not that there was many of them, or any complex. With very limited interactivity with the environment (oil, matches, moving objects, why remove this?) you are just walking from point A to B while someone throws fancy words at you and tries to get you to read notes with more fancy words. One positive thing about this game is the audio. Amazing, Dear Esther had fantastic audio as well, it was to be expected. But this feels like a Dear Esther part 2 with Amnesia slapped across the top. The only relief I have is that this was not developed by the guys who made the first game, and I'm sure the Frictional Games developers will redeem my disappointment with their next game.
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I'm very very torn on this game.
From a narrative stand point I absolutely LOVED this game. From the horrific motive behind everything combined with the old style of writing was a home run for me (even if some parts were predictable). My favorite parts of the game were reading the notes and the dialogue w/ the "bad guy" later on in the game once you know whats going on. + Show Spoiler +My fav. non-note part of the game is the desperate rant at the very end about how bad the 20th century is going to be.
However my joy in the story is tempered by the game play.
- For starters the game is way too short. - The lights flickering whenever enemies are around? Are you fucking kidding me? That may be the worst horror game mechanic ever realized. - The puzzles were really simple. - A lot less things to interact with. - The game just didn't feel as scary despite the much more horrifying story. - A lot of stuff was telegraphed way ahead of time, hurting the fear factor.
For me i'd give the narrative a 10/10. However the game play gets like a 5/10.
They should just turn this into a book or something.
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On September 11 2013 21:36 AnomalySC2 wrote: This game is just as hard to play for long periods of time as The Dark Descent was due to being legitimately scary as hell. I also see a lot of negative reviews from fans of the original blasting the removal of some "gameplay" mechanics. Like having to worry about how much oil you have to keep your lantern going (because that wasn't annoying at all).
That's actually a wholly irrelevant defense of the infinite oil lantern. Refilling your lantern was MEANT to be annoying.
It'd be like if you were playing a zombie survival game where you've got a car to drive and keep you somewhat safe through metropolises and zombie-dense areas, with the catch being that you've gotta stop and scrounge for fuel at any given opportunity, because if your car stops you can't get through these denser areas safely. Your car is your security blanket, but you need to work at keeping it working, and should always be afraid of "oh shit, what happens if I lose my car?" when the obvious answer to that question would be you're on foot and a dead man.
...And then you played the sequel to that game, wherein you got a presumably solar-powered magic car.
"Wow!", you say, "Boy am I sure glad I don't need to refuel this car anymore! I can always feel safe now! Refuelling was -annoying-"
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Sad to hear they dumbed it down.
I loved TDD so much
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On September 11 2013 21:36 AnomalySC2 wrote: This game is just as hard to play for long periods of time as The Dark Descent was due to being legitimately scary as hell. I also see a lot of negative reviews from fans of the original blasting the removal of some "gameplay" mechanics. Like having to worry about how much oil you have to keep your lantern going (because that wasn't annoying at all). That's like saying it's annoying running out of gas in StarCraft. It's an aspect of the game you have to be cognitively aware of when playing that is integral to building the environment of absolute horror that the first Amnesia created.
Without spoiling anything, Machine for Pigs took out some of the really integral aspects of Amnesia. The first is the sanity system. You had to be aware of it because it made the game hard to play because your vision would get blurry and walking would be annoying. When you looked at the monsters you would lose your sanity, to hide from them in the dark would cause you to further lose your sanity. To use light or hide in the light would allow you to regain your sanity, but also expose you to the monsters even more. This creates a really important dynamic where the player has to choose what they think will hurt or scare them less.
Relating to this, when you looked at the monsters your vision would go blurry and the outline of the monsters running at you was absolutely gut-wrenchingly horrifying. It would scare the fucking shit out of you. When you actually look at the monsters they aren't particularly scary, but the sanity system blurs them so you can make out their outlines and let your imagination fill in the rest. It was a truly ingenious mechanic.
To tie a view aspects together, the lantern oil and inventory are a pretty big deal to me. Since you never really picked up items, the developers didn't bother making the environment really interactive. Think of the first Amnesia, you could manipulate almost everything in every room if you wanted to. In this one most doors won't open and pretty much anything that you can actually poke is relevant in some manner. It basically makes it so you are walking through a story and doesn't leave the player any actual room to explore the environment apart from maybe picking up a spare letter or something.
I will spoiler the next part because it's going to be a little more spoiler ridden, but it's about the inventory and puzzles. + Show Spoiler +The lack of inventory in the game seriously took a toll on the puzzles too. The most elaborate puzzle is when you are trying to get the two items in the centrifuge to produce the acid. All you did was walk to two different rooms that took about 2 minutes each and shove something in a wind tube to transport it to the centrifuge. It required minimal effort or thought. Let's compare that with just one puzzle from the dark descent. Towards the middle-endish portion of the game you have to extract something (A poison I think?) from a corpse. Like 45 minutes prior you collected a needle, and somewhere along you got a small vile, and a third item I can't recall. You had to combine these items and jab them into the corpse to extract the blood.
When you actually figure out that puzzle, you feel accomplished because it was out of the ordinary and involved items you almost thought were worthless until this moment. You had to actually think about how these items could feasibly be Macgyver'd into something that helped with your objective. To draw one more comparison, at any time on the road to that task something could seriously fuck with you. You finally extract the blood and monsters come screaming into the room to ruin your accomplishment.
When we compare this to Machine For Pigs, you have really simple puzzles that are all within close proximity. When you find the fuses you need, they are right next to the machine they need to go into, because it would be seriously annoying to walk for more than 10 seconds having to hold something that wouldn't allow you to open doors without dropping it. They made it so it was a mechanical requirement to have things close to each other because they opted out of having an inventory. The further problem is that I knew when I had an item in my hand I am not going to run into a monster because it would be bad for the game. They can't have a monster appear and cause you to drop/misplace a key item in the game, it would just be stupid. So when I got the fuses, I was fairly certain nothing would come running at me. When I dropped the chemicals into the wind tube and headed back I figured the reason the tube was there was because a monster was probably going to attack me, lo and behold I was right.
When we compare the two scenarios, the first Amnesia destroys the second. They are able to set up involved puzzles that you get a real sense of accomplishment for completing, only to then replacement that feeling with one of absolute fear as monsters come to wreck your shit and you need to figure out where and what you have to do in order to survive. Due to not having an inventory all puzzles are very shallow and unsatisfying and don't really enhance the game in any way.
Next bits about the monsters, major spoilers. + Show Spoiler + The monsters were also incredibly shitty compared to Amnesia, and it's not just about the design. If you compare the pigs with the Amnesia monsters, you can probably objectively say the pigs were scarier looking, but the actual appearance wasn't what made the Amnesia monsters scary, it was that they were blurry, shouted at you and caused you to lose your shit. This goes back to how the sanity mechanic played into turning what would be average monsters, into truly scary creatures. The Dark Descent monsters were also much more intelligent and seemed to be a bit more active in pursuing you. You would have to run and hide from them and actively try to avoid them. The first time I encountered the pigs I needed to get past it so I walked up, agro'd the pig and then did some loony toon-ish move by juking him around a crate then running past him. I never once had to hide from a pig, I just ran away and it either stopped following or just magically disappeared with no rhyme or reason. At no point did I ever have to hide in fear, or wait for a monster to pass. I'd either run or juke a monster, which when I can so easily avoid this primary monster in the game it kind of loses the effect since I have no reason to think the pig will ever catch me or ever be in a situation where he can seriously harm me.
To put this in context, I considered the first Amnesia to be genre defining. I don't ever get scared. The first Amnesia had me space it out over several days and during play I would have to get up and just walk around to regain my personal sanity. The game conquered its ambition and was truly great. Machine for Pigs just isn't the same caliber. It's a fun time and it's alright, but to argue the dumbing down and removal of fundamental game mechanics was good is absolutely silly.
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On September 13 2013 13:42 On_Slaught wrote:I'm very very torn on this game. From a narrative stand point I absolutely LOVED this game. From the horrific motive behind everything combined with the old style of writing was a home run for me (even if some parts were predictable). My favorite parts of the game were reading the notes and the dialogue w/ the "bad guy" later on in the game once you know whats going on. + Show Spoiler +My fav. non-note part of the game is the desperate rant at the very end about how bad the 20th century is going to be. However my joy in the story is tempered by the game play. - For starters the game is way too short. - The lights flickering whenever enemies are around? Are you fucking kidding me? That may be the worst horror game mechanic ever realized. - The puzzles were really simple. - A lot less things to interact with. - The game just didn't feel as scary despite the much more horrifying story. - A lot of stuff was telegraphed way ahead of time, hurting the fear factor. For me i'd give the narrative a 10/10. However the game play gets like a 5/10. They should just turn this into a book or something. Or a Blaire Witch style movie. That would probably be cool. I did also enjoy the story/narrative/writing. I play a lot of games for the story though, so that's why I enjoyed it. Totally worth the 16$ I paid just because it was a good story, but I still was expecting more. A friend of mine told me I should play the Penumbra games. They are apparently a bit older and the first one isn't that scary, but the two sequals are apparently close to TDD level scary.
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+ Show Spoiler +WHY THE FUCK DID I JUST PLAY A GAME WHERE I JUST RAN LIKE A PUSSY FROM MANGALORES FROM THE 5TH ELEMENT? WHAT A STUPID STUPID HORRIBLE GAME. SO BAD.
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I played this game for an hour and am disappointed so far. I don't know if I even want to finish the game. I kept going hoping something interesting would happen, but it never did. This is a change from the first Amnesia game because there were different, interesting things happening almost the entire way through. I think I probably should have known it would be like this, given The Chinese Room's history of making museum walking simulator games.
The game is also poorly designed so far. If you walk in a room with six doors, you know exactly two of them will open, the one you came in and the one you are supposed to walk out of. The "scares" so far, in quotations because I was not disturbed at any point in the game, have consisted of children saying children's poems, the narrator making piggy goes to market references, and shaky walls. There was also an orc who made my lantern flicker as I chased him down a dimly lit hallway.
This game should have stayed wee wee wee all the way home. I can also reference pigs and pig-related material repeatedly. This little piggy got none.
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Honestly I just feel like the game was too simple. The beginning was pretty boring and I spent the entire "introduction" just basically trying to figure what the hell was going on. I loved the story/narrative as a lot of people here have agreed, but I think The Chinese Room really took its toll. Also, the graphics weren't impressive at all. I don't usually care about graphics and it doesn't make or break a game for me, but having the graphics advertised as a major selling point is a bit disappointing. The textures looked like a game from 2010, and as you got closer to in game objects it was clear everything was done with very little detail and meant to just look good from afar. This was especially apparent with fire. Not the biggest deal, but after seeing Dear Esther I expected more. Massive spoilers as I just break down most of the parts of the game.
+ Show Spoiler +You're basically tossed into the house with zero explanation as to what the hell was going on and they just expect you to finish simple repetitive puzzles. The first time i had to find a hidden lever it was kind of an "Ah hah!" moment for me, but after that it just degraded to a repetitive experience. The segments that were outside were really cool and interesting and it was a nice divergence from the original. I liked that part of the game and it had some cool environments.
Moving forward, going to the church was another pretty cool environment with lack luster puzzles. I thought there was a lot of potential here to introduce more of the key aspects of the story and explain a little further here. They did a bit of explaining with the document about Father Jeremy or whatever his name is, but I think that it was pretty obvious what had been going on at this point.
Once you enter the machine and get to the meat and potatoes of the game, I feel like the game kind of drops off and loses a lot of what the dark descent had going for it. I never felt at risk, I never felt captivated by the environment (except once you get to the main housing of the machine, that was pretty cool) or too scared to continue, The simplistic puzzles never made me venture through the factory for anything, since you couldn't collect items. The water parts of the game were also disappointing and the implementation of them was pretty stupid, especially when you just fall into the water. It made me a little tense, but not scared.
All in all, the stupid lantern mechanics, lack of inventory, and less than compelling reasons to explore the machine added up to make it a disappointing game. The fact that there were only a couple of sections where you didn't have the use of a lantern was disappointing. In the beginning I kept waiting for the scary parts and waiting for the game to make me jump,. It really never happened and I'm just thoroughly disappointed by the gameplay.
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Wow, for as long as the game was delayed I expected more content at least. Ah well, ManBearPig just didn't do it for me.
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