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United States4471 Posts
On December 28 2011 02:30 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2011 20:52 manicsquare wrote:
The grizzlies looked absolutely horrible last night. Can't believe that Gasol and Randolph combined for only 23 points that game.
What does everyone think of the Vasquez for Pondexter trade? I'm against it mostly because I was a huge fan of Vasquez while he was at Maryland. Also don't see the reasoning in getting another F when they trade their only experienced back up pg. Just my two cents. I think it was a bad idea also. Vasquez as a backup was pretty decent. He looked good in the playoffs and is super young. Memphis did it because they lost Darrel Arthur for the season which was a huge blow to the bench, but you don't give away your backup PG and force Mike Conley into heavy minutes in a somewhat compressed season.
Agreed. I thought Vasquez had some really good potential, particularly as a backup PG. Conley is good, but not THAT good, and Vasquez gave them a different look when he came in.
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Since at some point we'll be throwing statistics around, I just want to get this out of the way now: some stats are complete shit. Don't use them. Some stats are great but get misused. Just some stuff to throw around:
Win Shares and WS/48 are trash. Never, ever use them.
PER is probably the worst statistic ever created. Don't use it. Even though it makes my 2 favorite players (Wade, CP3) look really good, it's pointless to use when comparing players - especially guys that have different roles. Saying Dwight Howard is better than Kobe Bryant based on PER is one of the dumbest things I've ever read. Don't do it.
ORTG and DRTG aren't terrible when using TEAM comparisons. Don't try to apply it to individual comparisons because it doesn't work. Carlos Boozer had a DRTG of 99 last year. It says more about the Bulls defense than Boozer himself
+/-, Adjusted Plus Minus, Relative Adjusted Plus Minus - all of these need a whole lot of games to even begin to tell the story. One game samples and even season long samples are terrible when comparing individual players. If using them, look at 5-man LINEUPS and compare +/-. Even then there are just so many variables that affect it. Sometimes +/- makes sense when watching a game, sometimes the best player on a team is playing well but can have terrible +/- due to who he is playing with. Careful with it.
Last but not least, True Shooting %. This is actually a wonderful stat. It tells a lot about scoring efficiency when taking Free Throws into account. But I've seen this misused a lot in discussions. When comparing TS% at least make it known that some players like Kevin Martin have an absurdly high TS% due to Free Throws. FG%, and eFG% are still the bread and butter when talking about "who is a better scorer". If a player has terrible FG% but a high TS% you should be wary of their ability to score efficiently. People don't pay attention to it but this tends to sink these kinds of players when they go up against top tier defenses and/or hit the playoffs. If you aren't hitting a good % of your Field Goals, no matter what position you play and how many FTs you take, you will look terrible against the best players and teams.
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Just watched OKC vs. Wolves, damn Rubio got flare! So fun to watch players who can pass the ball so well! I think the Timberwolves' fans will have a lot of fun moments this year, regardless of how many wins they get!
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On December 28 2011 05:31 Ace wrote:
Since at some point we'll be throwing statistics around, I just want to get this out of the way now: some stats are complete shit. Don't use them. Some stats are great but get misused. Just some stuff to throw around:
Win Shares and WS/48 are trash. Never, ever use them.
PER is probably the worst statistic ever created. Don't use it. Even though it makes my 2 favorite players (Wade, CP3) look really good, it's pointless to use when comparing players - especially guys that have different roles. Saying Dwight Howard is better than Kobe Bryant based on PER is one of the dumbest things I've ever read. Don't do it.
ORTG and DRTG aren't terrible when using TEAM comparisons. Don't try to apply it to individual comparisons because it doesn't work. Carlos Boozer had a DRTG of 99 last year. It says more about the Bulls defense than Boozer himself
+/-, Adjusted Plus Minus, Relative Adjusted Plus Minus - all of these need a whole lot of games to even begin to tell the story. One game samples and even season long samples are terrible when comparing individual players. If using them, look at 5-man LINEUPS and compare +/-. Even then there are just so many variables that affect it. Sometimes +/- makes sense when watching a game, sometimes the best player on a team is playing well but can have terrible +/- due to who he is playing with. Careful with it.
Last but not least, True Shooting %. This is actually a wonderful stat. It tells a lot about scoring efficiency when taking Free Throws into account. But I've seen this misused a lot in discussions. When comparing TS% at least make it known that some players like Kevin Martin have an absurdly high TS% due to Free Throws. FG%, and eFG% are still the bread and butter when talking about "who is a better scorer". If a player has terrible FG% but a high TS% you should be wary of their ability to score efficiently. People don't pay attention to it but this tends to sink these kinds of players when they go up against top tier defenses and/or hit the playoffs. If you aren't hitting a good % of your Field Goals, no matter what position you play and how many FTs you take, you will look terrible against the best players and teams.
In conclusion, don't use stats to argue with Ace, because he is right, all the time, and assists are actually awesome no matter where they occur on the floor, and having a high eFG% is awesome even if you are Jason Kapono, Actually, Kapono was the best player in the league at one point.
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On December 28 2011 06:14 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2011 05:31 Ace wrote:
Since at some point we'll be throwing statistics around, I just want to get this out of the way now: some stats are complete shit. Don't use them. Some stats are great but get misused. Just some stuff to throw around:
Win Shares and WS/48 are trash. Never, ever use them.
PER is probably the worst statistic ever created. Don't use it. Even though it makes my 2 favorite players (Wade, CP3) look really good, it's pointless to use when comparing players - especially guys that have different roles. Saying Dwight Howard is better than Kobe Bryant based on PER is one of the dumbest things I've ever read. Don't do it.
ORTG and DRTG aren't terrible when using TEAM comparisons. Don't try to apply it to individual comparisons because it doesn't work. Carlos Boozer had a DRTG of 99 last year. It says more about the Bulls defense than Boozer himself
+/-, Adjusted Plus Minus, Relative Adjusted Plus Minus - all of these need a whole lot of games to even begin to tell the story. One game samples and even season long samples are terrible when comparing individual players. If using them, look at 5-man LINEUPS and compare +/-. Even then there are just so many variables that affect it. Sometimes +/- makes sense when watching a game, sometimes the best player on a team is playing well but can have terrible +/- due to who he is playing with. Careful with it.
Last but not least, True Shooting %. This is actually a wonderful stat. It tells a lot about scoring efficiency when taking Free Throws into account. But I've seen this misused a lot in discussions. When comparing TS% at least make it known that some players like Kevin Martin have an absurdly high TS% due to Free Throws. FG%, and eFG% are still the bread and butter when talking about "who is a better scorer". If a player has terrible FG% but a high TS% you should be wary of their ability to score efficiently. People don't pay attention to it but this tends to sink these kinds of players when they go up against top tier defenses and/or hit the playoffs. If you aren't hitting a good % of your Field Goals, no matter what position you play and how many FTs you take, you will look terrible against the best players and teams. In conclusion, don't use stats to argue with Ace, because he is right, all the time, and assists are actually awesome no matter where they occur on the floor, and having a high eFG% is awesome even if you are Jason Kapono, Actually, Kapono was the best player in the league at one point.
About time you recognized the truth
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Reggie Evans has the best Wins Produced ever. Ergo, he's the best player ever. He's on the Clipper. Best team ever? I THINK SO!
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I interrupt this  of Ace (by Ace) to say:
In case you NBA fans haven't seen it and are interested, we are hoping for a few more people to start a fantasy league. Click here for more info! Or PM Doomsville.
... =P...
loving NBA league pass...def will wait till half season like recommended and get it.
And just gotta say-Lakers fan voice ON- I don't care so much they lost yesterday bc I am still upset over the Bulls loss the day before. -OFF- I enjoyed watching the Warriors tear them up yesterday. Curry is a beast and some of his passes were sick like the 3/4 court alley-oop pass. Hopefully he was not too badly injured at the end.
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I am DoomsVille and I approve this message.
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On December 28 2011 10:41 DoomsVille wrote:
I am DoomsVille and I approve this message.
What message?
And why do we care?
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The one directly above my post...
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Damn, this miami team is really starting to look like the one people hyped up when the team first got together. They're playing as if having 2 superstars on the same team really doesn't matter at all in terms of how much production each guy can put out and they're using their talent to get a bunch of free points in transition. Not only that, but their supporting cast is ready this time around and they all know their roles from the beginning. Seriously, they just played 2 top teams in a row and are making it look like a USA vs. random olympic team.
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They play similarly to the way they did last year except their role players are all healthy and look a lot better.
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On December 28 2011 12:12 Ace wrote:
They play similarly to the way they did last year except their role players are all healthy and look a lot better.
Last year they seemed a bit more stagnant on offence, I can see where people see the improvement this year. I'm not disagreeing with either of you, I'm just throwing it out there that although they play the same way as they did last year, this year it seems as if the players have more control of themselves, and their teammates.
I haven't watched this Celtic and Heat game yet because I was out celebrating Christmas, but I feel they scored a lot of points off sheer talent, where as last year they looked towards more set plays in the half court. Not that the points in transition didn't happen last year, just not in this abundance.
On December 28 2011 05:51 VENDIZ wrote:
Just watched OKC vs. Wolves, damn Rubio got flare! So fun to watch players who can pass the ball so well! I think the Timberwolves' fans will have a lot of fun moments this year, regardless of how many wins they get!
The wolves are surprisingly really fun to watch so far, Adelman is the biggest improvement on the court for them for sure, but they actually have a decent roster, only Malcolm Lee is an unknown, you can predict what everyone else on the roster will give to you on a given night. Their oldest players are Luke Ridnour, and Darko, if you exclude Brad Miller, and those are two people with young legs. It should be very interesting if Rick (Adelman, not Rubio) gets them a shot at the playoffs.
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Haslem is really sinking Miami right now. He's just having a seriously bad night.
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where the eff did they pick up dooling from, god damn
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Cole is pretty damn good too. Chalmers still makes too many mistakes. I still don't like how Miami deals with pressure down the stretch. Isn't this when you should expect Wade or Lebron to step up and not some rookie or haslem taking the shots?
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beasley has had like fucking 25 jump shots holy christ
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Wow, Norris Cole, professional basketball player. Whudda thunk it?
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Miami fans are so embarrassing lol... chanting MVP....
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EPT
