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On September 09 2011 03:47 r33k wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 03:31 Horst wrote:
The only real adaptation the ultramarines made following the Tyranid wars was the formation of Tyranid hunter squads, wasn't it? I mean they still follow codex doctrine in approaching battles, they just had a minor organizational change.
As for the CSM's your fighting... the fact that they use chaos sorcerors in combination with khornate forces REALLY confuses me. Khorne hates psykers... They are possessed who are trying to open warp gates, khorne condones that. They're like what they did with the inquisitor except they are an actual unit in the chaos fluff. Also the chapter you fight is called Nemeroth's war host or whatever. It's a chapter on its own, you unlock their armor for multiplayer by finishing the campaign.
It all depends who's leading them. A powerful chaos warlord is going to gather worshippers of all the chaos gods around him. And the only true and real Khorne berserkers are member's of the World Eater's legion. This guys don't need to be led, you just point them towards the battle and get the fuck away (if there's no battle at hand they'll just as gladly tear themselves apart, best example here would be Kharn the Betrayer who doesn't distinguish between foe and ally during battle). Aggression inducing brain implants are very popular among them, they don't need much to tick them off.
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On September 09 2011 03:02 Horst wrote:
The one thing that above all annoys me about this game... is how out of character titus acts for an ultramarines captain.
The only other captain of the Ultramarines I know of, Uriel Ventris, was literally BANISHED FROM HIS CHAPTER for disregarding the codex. Uriel, the 4th company captain, went off with a small squad of marines and did critical missions for his company, instead of commanding his company directly. This is contrary to the codex, and he was banished for thinking he knew better than the codex.
Here we have an Ultramarines captain Titus... saying the same things to the initiate marine in his squad. An Ultramarine is not an Ultramarine unless he is strictly codex adherent. They do not tolerate "interpretation"... you do things by the book, or you don't do them at all.
In the short story "Rules of Engagement" in the Horus Heresy novel "Age of Darkness", Roboute Guilliman (Ultramarines Primarch, living at the time) leaves one of his companies with merely a book written by him describing how to respond to every situation in war, how to counter and answer every counter recieved. This, obviously, was the Codex Astartes. Guilliman himself didn't fight with this chapter, but he sent them with the Codex as his teachings. (following paragraphs are spoilers to the book)
+ Show Spoiler +Shit hit the fan and everyone in this company started to question the Primarches writing, but followed it loyally, watching what looked like mistake after mistake have his soldiers get caught in crossfires etc, questioning the captain with things such as "how can one book, even written by the primarch, answer every eventuality of war?" Eventually, it all came together, as if the teachings had been manipulating the enemy in to a position to where they could strike them down, and the company celebrated in what they thought was proof that the Codex was the answer to all. Later, they met in combat with the Sons of Horus and lost, after following the Codex as if it were law. Turns out it was actually war games, training the men in live combat, as when Horus removed his helment to strike down Remus, it was actually Guilliman. Back in the debreifing, Guilliman regretted his arrogance, thinking he could write a book that could predict and conquer every outcome if followed by law. By the sheer fact that he himself could beat his own book, he learned that the chapter must be able to learn to adapt for themselves. "I must have done something wrong," said Remus. "It is the only explanation."
Guilliman shook his head and smiled grimly. "You credit me twith too much, Remus. I am not infalliable. This last engagement should have shown you that."
"I can't accept that," said Remus.
"What is so hard to accept?" said Guilliman. "You followed my teachings, and they led you to defeat. If this and Calth have taught us anything it is that we must always be adaptable and never too hidebound in our thinking."
"But your teachings..."
"Are yet f lawed," said Guilliman. "No one, not even one such as I, can anticipate every possible outcome of battle. My words are not some holy write that must be obeyed. There must always be room for personal initiative on t he battlefield. You and I bboth know how one spark of heroism can turn the tide of battle. That knowledge and personal experience can only be earned in blood, and the leader in the field must always be the ultimate arbiter of what course of action should be followed."
...
...
"So was there a way to win that last fight?"
"Perhaps, but I will let you find that answer."
"And what will you do?"
"I will continue to pen the Codex Astartes," said Guilliman
"Codex Astartes?' said Remus. "Is that what you're calling it?"
Guilliman smiled and nodded. "Yes, I think it has an appropriately weighty feel to it, don't you? In war and in peace it will provide an invaluable repository of knowledge, but I do not wish it to be regarded as a substitute for reason and initiative. Do you understand?"
TLDR: Guilliman, the Ultramarines Primarch, himself decreed that the Codex Astartes is not necessarily to be followed religiously. This thing with Uriel Ventris, I don't know all the details, but I imagine it wasn't necessarily the Codex Astartes that he broke away from, but the Chapter Masters orders (Marneus Calgar.) If I had to guess, anyway.
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The emperor also didn't want to be viewed as a god;
In 10,000 years, the primarchs and the emperor were diefied, and their teachings and writings held sacrosanct.
The codex IS THE LAW to the ultramarines. Ventris was a successful captain, but did things against the teachings of the codex, and was banished. That was the extent of the reasoning behind his punishment. He led a deathwatch team to kill a tyranid hive mind, which was against the rules. That was pretty much the primary reason he was banished; he disregarded the codex in leading his company.
Titus is guilty of the same.
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In that case, its probably because Relic made the game and not a Black Library writer. I doubt its the first contradiction Relic has caused.
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On September 09 2011 03:53 Manit0u wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 03:47 r33k wrote:On September 09 2011 03:31 Horst wrote:
The only real adaptation the ultramarines made following the Tyranid wars was the formation of Tyranid hunter squads, wasn't it? I mean they still follow codex doctrine in approaching battles, they just had a minor organizational change.
As for the CSM's your fighting... the fact that they use chaos sorcerors in combination with khornate forces REALLY confuses me. Khorne hates psykers... They are possessed who are trying to open warp gates, khorne condones that. They're like what they did with the inquisitor except they are an actual unit in the chaos fluff. Also the chapter you fight is called Nemeroth's war host or whatever. It's a chapter on its own, you unlock their armor for multiplayer by finishing the campaign. It all depends who's leading them. A powerful chaos warlord is going to gather worshippers of all the chaos gods around him. And the only true and real Khorne berserkers are member's of the World Eater's legion. This guys don't need to be led, you just point them towards the battle and get the fuck away (if there's no battle at hand they'll just as gladly tear themselves apart, best example here would be Kharn the Betrayer who doesn't distinguish between foe and ally during battle). Aggression inducing brain implants are very popular among them, they don't need much to tick them off.
I'm talking about the flying silhouettes, no idea who you're referring to. You don't need to be affiliated with anyone to open a portal to the warp, and once the bloodletters are out they are more likely to slaughter the people they're there to slaughter than to turn on the guy who summoned them because he's doing magicks.
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Oh, another HUGE plot hole (pun intended)
+ Show Spoiler + They explain they can't start the warlord titan to fight off the orks, because it takes hundreds of people to get it ready. Next thing you know, there's a princeps and crew manning the titan, and all you need to do to launch it is to push a button.
makes no sense.
Would have SO MUCH RATHER had a squad of Grey Knights (the only troops who can actually handle demon incursions) arrive on planet, and you fight side by side with them to engage the chaos hordes in the spire, culminating in a huge climactic battle.
The final battle left much to be desired... it was basically a quick time event.
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It's a standalone chapter. First of all they're not black, second of all it says so in the game.
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I know Grey Knights aren't much better than UM/BR when it comes to fan boys and saturation, but come on there were demons to kill!
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Could be Word Bearers too. The Armor doesn't look like the Black Legion and I thought I saw some glimpses of red.
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On September 09 2011 03:02 Horst wrote:
The one thing that above all annoys me about this game... is how out of character titus acts for an ultramarines captain.
The only other captain of the Ultramarines I know of, Uriel Ventris, was literally BANISHED FROM HIS CHAPTER for disregarding the codex. Uriel, the 4th company captain, went off with a small squad of marines and did critical missions for his company, instead of commanding his company directly. This is contrary to the codex, and he was banished for thinking he knew better than the codex.
Here we have an Ultramarines captain Titus... saying the same things to the initiate marine in his squad. An Ultramarine is not an Ultramarine unless he is strictly codex adherent. They do not tolerate "interpretation"... you do things by the book, or you don't do them at all.
I think Uriel, left the marines under his command not to lead a strike force of marines, but a deathwatch squad to a hiveship. He left whole command of 4th company to a sergant, as his next in command also joined the deathwatch squad.
A whole company, left to be commanded not by a chaplain, liblarian, command squad member, not even a veteran sergant. they were cut of both in communication and reinforcements.
Thats not a little breach of codex astertes, I would even say, codex part was just used to legitimize the punishment.
no captain in any chapter is allowed to do that.
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Just played the demo.
What the hell? This game is AMAZING! I am soooooooo buying this!
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On September 09 2011 13:02 iCCup.Diamond wrote:
Just played the demo.
What the hell? This game is AMAZING! I am soooooooo buying this!
YAY! will you be my friend? in 3 weeks or so the coop horde mode comes out!\
Unless of course, your getting it for the xbox 
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i am looking for multiplayer team mates.
shoot me a pm with your steam or pm that you are interested and i will pm you my steam id.
i am currently lvl 27? mainly using the laser, or reliq bolter + sniper bolter.
english or german.
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i think ill get this game because the pvp seems awesome. is there clan support and does the game take some skill to play? Thanks!
oh and one last question:
do you need to play the SP to do well in MP? or can I just play MP and level all the way up?
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Im down for some games everytime im on. Add me ROCCHED and add TL in the message description so i dont ignore you <3 lol
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The Necrons will eventually kill all life in the universe again.
BooHoo Necrons #1
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On September 09 2011 13:58 Golgotha wrote:
i think ill get this game because the pvp seems awesome. is there clan support and does the game take some skill to play? Thanks!
oh and one last question:
do you need to play the SP to do well in MP? or can I just play MP and level all the way up?
SP only gives 2 flavor skins, everything in multiplayer is unlocked by playing multiplayer.
If anyone wants to add me on steam i'm reekhadol
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Can you recommend a few wh 40k books to read?
there are too many of them to just start ~~
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EPT
