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On April 24 2015 02:18 lastpuritan wrote:
This will sound ultra stupid:
I think SMG buff was somehow Valve's solution to rekt9 train. Whenever we need to force buy as CT, we were saying OHH ONLY IF WE HAD TECH 9s : ((( Now we buy mp9 or mp7 >:D TA TAAAAAA same affect - run & gun.
They brought balance to the force...
Edit: What happened to demos? I cant watch anything.
CT always had tec9s. They are called 5-7s. Difference is, the CT aren't all running into the same spot.
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On April 24 2015 03:35 Torte de Lini wrote:
the only reason I don't like playing with higher-ranked people is because they all hate Dust2
Hey i like it  it's Censured and Panda's fault :D
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2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
I went from loving D2 -> hating D2 -> back to loving D2.
First starting out, I liked D2 because everyone played it and it was easy to get matches on and it was pretty noob friendly.
As I got better, I started hating D2 because everyone played it and most matches were on it and it was pretty noob friendly.
Now, I like D2 because I realized that while it's noob friendly, it's also a nice map to be creative on and take advantage of weaknesses in the opponents' setups, so you don't always have to rely on your teammates (whereas a map like Inferno is tougher in that sense).
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On April 24 2015 05:19 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2015 02:18 lastpuritan wrote:
This will sound ultra stupid:
I think SMG buff was somehow Valve's solution to rekt9 train. Whenever we need to force buy as CT, we were saying OHH ONLY IF WE HAD TECH 9s : ((( Now we buy mp9 or mp7 >:D TA TAAAAAA same affect - run & gun.
They brought balance to the force...
Edit: What happened to demos? I cant watch anything. CT always had tec9s. They are called 5-7s. Difference is, the CT aren't all running into the same spot.
Fire rate is huge difference.
http://i.imgur.com/HF1DfHC.jpg
I dont remember five sevens doing huge job like tech9 katowice finals. Or can you say, if T's had five seven instead of rekt9 would it be the same chaos?
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On April 24 2015 05:31 Souma wrote:
I went from loving D2 -> hating D2 -> back to loving D2.
First starting out, I liked D2 because everyone played it and it was easy to get matches on and it was pretty noob friendly.
As I got better, I started hating D2 because everyone played it and most matches were on it and it was pretty noob friendly.
Now, I like D2 because I realized that while it's noob friendly, it's also a nice map to be creative on and take advantage of weaknesses in the opponents' setups, so you don't always have to rely on your teammates (whereas a map like Inferno is tougher in that sense).
I find dust 2 to be one of the hardest maps to "outplay" your opponent on, theres a reason people say the map is all about who can aim better
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2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
Only when you don't know how to do anything else. There are a lot of possible tactics on that map.
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I'm LEM and I'm trying to play with my Silver elite/GN2 friends and it's just not working out. The MM system doesn't really allow for this anymore right? It seems like it'll just match the other team just below my level and then there's only so much I can do.
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On April 24 2015 07:34 Souma wrote:
Only when you don't know how to do anything else. There are a lot of possible tactics on that map.
Nice be straight up derogatory, GJ i take this information straight from the proscene as well as my personal opinion.
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On April 24 2015 08:09 Djzapz wrote:
I'm LEM and I'm trying to play with my Silver elite/GN2 friends and it's just not working out. The MM system doesn't really allow for this anymore right? It seems like it'll just match the other team just below my level and then there's only so much I can do.
Yes, that's anti-smurfing in effect right there. Might seem harsh at first but if it was any other way, you'd just roll over any teams as an LEM level player. You can play on custom servers, faceIT, CEVO, ESEA (I assume?) or casual etc.
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2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
On April 24 2015 08:12 Capped wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2015 07:34 Souma wrote:
Only when you don't know how to do anything else. There are a lot of possible tactics on that map. Nice be straight up derogatory, GJ i take this information straight from the proscene as well as my personal opinion.
Not being derogatory. Speaking the truth. If you think pros don't have tons of set tactics and strats on D2, well then I might have to start being derogatory.
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Yeah when a high-ranked player MM's with lowbies you are actually forced to smurf now instead of playing on your main because it just assumes all your lowbie friends are your level. Its not really preventing smurfing but rather preventing boosting.
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Telling me "I dont know how to do anything else" is being derogatory.
The map is known and has been known to be one of the most aim-centric maps in the game for years now. It has a simplistic design that makes the map revolve around aim battles instead of superior tactics and set plays.
Who is saying pros dont have "tons of set tactics and strats"? Straw man much? I said nothing of the sort. Theres plenty of stuff you can do on D2 sure but theres far more on more complex maps. At what point did we start talking about set plays and tactics when your original post was about not having to rely on teammates and playing solo anyway?
My comment was directed towards this, i do not believe there is much you can do tactically as a solo player on dust 2 to gain an advantage compared to other maps. Either you win your engagements or you dont, the maps too linear to allow for sneaky beaky, its all about holding / taking angles and winning fights, which is why its considered aim-centric.
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2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
That was a general statement that you took personally (probably because it rings true and that actually infuriates you and so you're taking it out on me).
D2 being more "aim-centric" than others maps doesn't mean that there aren't a bunch of possible tactics one can pull off to out-smart others. The two are not mutually exclusive. Saying that other maps are better for solo play - now that's a strawman, sir.
Once again, there are TONS of things you can do as a solo player on D2 to gain advantages. It's a huge map with many different possible areas for aggression and flanking. Saying you 'either win engagements or you don't' just goes to show that you don't have the knowledge you think you may have concerning the map.
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GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
On April 24 2015 08:45 Souma wrote:
That was a general statement that you took personally (probably because it rings true and that actually infuriates you and so you're taking it out on me).
D2 being more "aim-centric" than others maps doesn't mean that there aren't a bunch of possible tactics one can pull off to out-smart others. The two are not mutually exclusive. Saying that other maps are better for solo play - now that's a strawman, sir.
Once again, there are TONS of things you can do as a solo player on D2 to gain advantages. It's a huge map with many different possible areas for aggression and flanking. Saying you 'either win engagements or you don't' just goes to show that you don't have the knowledge you think you may have concerning the map.
Don't forget that Valve recently opened up the skybox over A short so there's even more stuff teams can do
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On April 24 2015 08:45 Souma wrote:
That was a general statement that you took personally (probably because it rings true and that actually infuriates you and so you're taking it out on me).
D2 being more "aim-centric" than others maps doesn't mean that there aren't a bunch of possible tactics one can pull off to out-smart others. The two are not mutually exclusive. Saying that other maps are better for solo play - now that's a strawman, sir.
Once again, there are TONS of things you can do as a solo player on D2 to gain advantages. It's a huge map with many different possible areas for aggression and flanking. Saying you 'either win engagements or you don't' just goes to show that you don't have the knowledge you think you may have concerning the map.
It was taken personally because it was said in direct response to my post and personal opinion. You were quite clearly talking to me.
I fail to understand how im running a straw man when my very first comment said exactly what youre now calling a straw man - me saying that dust 2 has less opportunity for tactical play (flanking, aggression, sneaky beaky, etc) than other maps. You turn around and instead argue about the validity of team set plays and tactics on the map as well as say that there is indeed things you can do on dust 2, two things i never spoke about or called into question. - the very definition of a straw man
Along with this you play the innocent and continue to take personal jabs at me (i count 2 in the quote) instead of having a civil conversation about the topic (which at this point isnt even a difference of opinion its just 2 people talking about 2 different things). Put frankly you're just being rude and disrespectful which makes me not want to continue the exchange.
As a leaving comment lets take d2 and inferno (your comparison) and compare them. Infernos bombsites allow for much more tactical play, mind games and maneuverability, they have more angles, more places to hide and are all around far more complex than d2's bombsites. The rest of inferno tends to play the same - with A house and the short / arch split of top mid allowing for creativity moreso than d2's linear long path or mid routes. There are plenty of things you can do on both maps, there is just more you can do on inferno. (Try and reply to this without calling me personally into the argument eh? I at least have the decency to talk to you like an equal instead of attacking you at every opportunity)
Either way i wont reply further as it isnt leading anywhere good or peaceful but im interested in your thoughts, your attitude sucks but im sure you know your stuff.
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On April 24 2015 08:09 Djzapz wrote:
I'm LEM and I'm trying to play with my Silver elite/GN2 friends and it's just not working out. The MM system doesn't really allow for this anymore right? It seems like it'll just match the other team just below my level and then there's only so much I can do.
Playing with people way above my rank was the fastest way to improving. If you want to train your friends to be better you'll just eat the bullet and lose some matches for them.
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On April 24 2015 10:16 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2015 08:09 Djzapz wrote:
I'm LEM and I'm trying to play with my Silver elite/GN2 friends and it's just not working out. The MM system doesn't really allow for this anymore right? It seems like it'll just match the other team just below my level and then there's only so much I can do. Playing with people way above my rank was the fastest way to improving. If you want to train your friends to be better you'll just eat the bullet and lose some matches for them.
They just want to play a few games, they're not really playing to learn. Yet they can still play MM's among themselves but when I'm there it doesn't really adjust the MM accordingly. Basically me and my DMG friends play together sometimes and once in a while these 3 other guys come along and we just get destroyed. While they might learn, we'd have to get our asses kicked a lot before it happened. They have trouble getting more than 5 kills a game so it's hard to teach them to trade kills
Hell, even I can barely get kills because I'm actually a shit player with shit aim but I can be effective when working as part of a team.
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2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
On April 24 2015 09:35 Capped wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2015 08:45 Souma wrote:
That was a general statement that you took personally (probably because it rings true and that actually infuriates you and so you're taking it out on me).
D2 being more "aim-centric" than others maps doesn't mean that there aren't a bunch of possible tactics one can pull off to out-smart others. The two are not mutually exclusive. Saying that other maps are better for solo play - now that's a strawman, sir.
Once again, there are TONS of things you can do as a solo player on D2 to gain advantages. It's a huge map with many different possible areas for aggression and flanking. Saying you 'either win engagements or you don't' just goes to show that you don't have the knowledge you think you may have concerning the map. It was taken personally because it was said in direct response to my post and personal opinion. You were quite clearly talking to me. I fail to understand how im running a straw man when my very first comment said exactly what youre now calling a straw man - me saying that dust 2 has less opportunity for tactical play (flanking, aggression, sneaky beaky, etc) than other maps. You turn around and instead argue about the validity of team set plays and tactics on the map as well as say that there is indeed things you can do on dust 2, two things i never spoke about or called into question. - the very definition of a straw man Along with this you play the innocent and continue to take personal jabs at me (i count 2 in the quote) instead of having a civil conversation about the topic (which at this point isnt even a difference of opinion its just 2 people talking about 2 different things). Put frankly you're just being rude and disrespectful which makes me not want to continue the exchange. As a leaving comment lets take d2 and inferno (your comparison) and compare them. Infernos bombsites allow for much more tactical play, mind games and maneuverability, they have more angles, more places to hide and are all around far more complex than d2's bombsites. The rest of inferno tends to play the same - with A house and the short / arch split of top mid allowing for creativity moreso than d2's linear long path or mid routes. There are plenty of things you can do on both maps, there is just more you can do on inferno. (Try and reply to this without calling me personally into the argument eh? I at least have the decency to talk to you like an equal instead of attacking you at every opportunity) Either way i wont reply further as it isnt leading anywhere good or peaceful but im interested in your thoughts, your attitude sucks but im sure you know your stuff.
Your first comment:
On April 24 2015 07:19 Capped wrote:I find dust 2 to be one of the hardest maps to "outplay" your opponent on, theres a reason people say the map is all about who can aim better
... was as general as can be. And then I replied with another general comment.
Regardless, saying other maps have more room for tactical play has no bearing on whether or not Dust 2 is satisfactorily equipped with enough room for solo tactical maneuvers.
Anyway, Dust 2, being as big as it is with multiple easy routes to take advantage of, allows for more solo tactical play than Inferno. Inferno requires more teamwork and smoke/flash coordination to get things done. On D2, it's much easier to take advantage of spawn points, which allows for easy solo picks, for instance straight into B or out Long. You also have many avenues for aggression on the CT side - you can rush lower from mid, you can rush up mid itself to catch T's offguard, or if there's an AWPer T spawn you can fast-cat (or just rush up cat) to flank people at long or to pick into lower tuns. You can do tunnels aggression, aggression out of long A, etc. On T side you have a plethora of smokes you can use to put yourself in decent position to get picks (A long corner smoke, CT spawn smoke from cat into flash + jump down), CT spawn smoke from x-box into mid control, etc.). Given how big the map is, there are always holes in the opponent's setups, so if you realize what they're doing it's easy to get the jump on them.
When I play D2, I am all over the place, and generally just go where my spawn point takes me or go where I know the opponent will be the least likely to be ready for me. It's more difficult to do that in Inferno as you're more likely to run head first into the opponent no matter what you try to do (banana is a heavy point of contention for both sides, whereas tunnels in B is easier to time out aggression and can take you to T spawn or to lower/mid, for example).
Dust 2, along with Mirage/Cache, imo are really fun to play since you can really do a lot with the maps.
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Canada4481 Posts
On April 24 2015 10:37 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2015 10:16 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On April 24 2015 08:09 Djzapz wrote:
I'm LEM and I'm trying to play with my Silver elite/GN2 friends and it's just not working out. The MM system doesn't really allow for this anymore right? It seems like it'll just match the other team just below my level and then there's only so much I can do. Playing with people way above my rank was the fastest way to improving. If you want to train your friends to be better you'll just eat the bullet and lose some matches for them. They just want to play a few games, they're not really playing to learn. Yet they can still play MM's among themselves but when I'm there it doesn't really adjust the MM accordingly. Basically me and my DMG friends play together sometimes and once in a while these 3 other guys come along and we just get destroyed. While they might learn, we'd have to get our asses kicked a lot before it happened. They have trouble getting more than 5 kills a game so it's hard to teach them to trade kills Hell, even I can barely get kills because I'm actually a shit player with shit aim but I can be effective when working as part of a team.
Buy a smurf, keep it at a rank to play specifically with your friends. ?? Not sure what the problem is.
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On April 24 2015 11:54 Nagisama wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2015 10:37 Djzapz wrote:On April 24 2015 10:16 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On April 24 2015 08:09 Djzapz wrote:
I'm LEM and I'm trying to play with my Silver elite/GN2 friends and it's just not working out. The MM system doesn't really allow for this anymore right? It seems like it'll just match the other team just below my level and then there's only so much I can do. Playing with people way above my rank was the fastest way to improving. If you want to train your friends to be better you'll just eat the bullet and lose some matches for them. They just want to play a few games, they're not really playing to learn. Yet they can still play MM's among themselves but when I'm there it doesn't really adjust the MM accordingly. Basically me and my DMG friends play together sometimes and once in a while these 3 other guys come along and we just get destroyed. While they might learn, we'd have to get our asses kicked a lot before it happened. They have trouble getting more than 5 kills a game so it's hard to teach them to trade kills Hell, even I can barely get kills because I'm actually a shit player with shit aim but I can be effective when working as part of a team. Buy a smurf, keep it at a rank to play specifically with your friends. ?? Not sure what the problem is.
I already have 2 accounts, and I never said it was a problem. It was initially a question (post above), then an explanation as well as a response to his suggestion that they might learn. Is that ok for you, milord?
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EPT
