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United States22883 Posts
On October 14 2011 08:45 PepperoniPiZZa wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2011 08:40 MattO1337 wrote:On October 14 2011 08:39 Jibba wrote:
It's not spraying and praying, it's a learned spray pattern, which every single FPS game in the past 12 years lacks. Fixed that for you, it's time to grow up and accept change. Memorizing spray patterns may have been a part of FPS games in the 90's, but it certainly isn't now. It has nothing to do with not accepting change. They're lowering the skill ceiling in order to appeal to bad players. CS:GO is another dumbed down rehash of 1.6, just like source, it has nothing to do with change. Well, it's alpha so we have no idea what they'll do. But I definitely hope they raise the ceiling up a bit.
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Germany38463 Posts
On October 14 2011 08:37 MattO1337 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2011 08:35 Torte de Lini wrote:On October 14 2011 08:25 Jibba wrote:On October 14 2011 08:22 PepperoniPiZZa wrote:On October 14 2011 08:18 garlicface wrote:
I don't follow CS, but holy shit this Volcano guy is making some sick shots. Is he one of the better players in the scene? I don't know, I think he's just an average american pro. It's hard to see because source is much more forgiving when it comes to precision. He was a top American CS pro in 1.6 (world class), and then one in CSS (except only Americans played CSS seriously) as well. His time in CSS is probably what's helping him the most, over modern players like cArn and n0thing who are probably much better than he is at 1.6. They said it's the CSS deagle, which is mostly what he's using. What team is he on now? He's retired basically. He's a backup player on Team Dynamic, however he doesn't ever play. He's a map maker for ESEA, and he's also married/dating Sapphire, one of CS's most dedicated supporters. He played for Team 3D back in the day of source though.
Oh shit, he's a backup player on my team's CSS?
I feel like I'm missing out on a lot of CSS stuff.
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On October 14 2011 08:45 PepperoniPiZZa wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2011 08:40 MattO1337 wrote:On October 14 2011 08:39 Jibba wrote:
It's not spraying and praying, it's a learned spray pattern, which every single FPS game in the past 12 years lacks. Fixed that for you, it's time to grow up and accept change. Memorizing spray patterns may have been a part of FPS games in the 90's, but it certainly isn't now. It has nothing to do with not accepting change. They're lowering the skill ceiling in order to appeal to bad players. CS:GO is another dumbed down rehash of 1.6, just like source, it has nothing to do with change.
Look at Quake. The game is dead now because they didn't lower the skill gap from Quake 3 to Quake Live. The same top players are the same top players. No one was able to make an impact in that game except for Rapha.
I bet you never took a step back and considered that the skill ceiling needed to be lowered. Look at it from both sides.
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Awww I'm sad I missed it. Good to see Volcano is still around. Played against him several times on LAN during the CSS days and he is uncommonly mellow for a Counter-Strike player.
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On October 14 2011 08:47 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2011 08:37 MattO1337 wrote:On October 14 2011 08:35 Torte de Lini wrote:On October 14 2011 08:25 Jibba wrote:On October 14 2011 08:22 PepperoniPiZZa wrote:On October 14 2011 08:18 garlicface wrote:
I don't follow CS, but holy shit this Volcano guy is making some sick shots. Is he one of the better players in the scene? I don't know, I think he's just an average american pro. It's hard to see because source is much more forgiving when it comes to precision. He was a top American CS pro in 1.6 (world class), and then one in CSS (except only Americans played CSS seriously) as well. His time in CSS is probably what's helping him the most, over modern players like cArn and n0thing who are probably much better than he is at 1.6. They said it's the CSS deagle, which is mostly what he's using. What team is he on now? He's retired basically. He's a backup player on Team Dynamic, however he doesn't ever play. He's a map maker for ESEA, and he's also married/dating Sapphire, one of CS's most dedicated supporters. He played for Team 3D back in the day of source though. Oh shit, he's a backup player on my team's CSS?
Really wouldn't say backup, more or less he's on the roster for those "just in case" moments where someone else can't play a match. Either way, he's still a legend in both CS:S and CS 1.6.
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United States22883 Posts
On October 14 2011 08:47 MattO1337 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2011 08:45 PepperoniPiZZa wrote:On October 14 2011 08:40 MattO1337 wrote:On October 14 2011 08:39 Jibba wrote:
It's not spraying and praying, it's a learned spray pattern, which every single FPS game in the past 12 years lacks. Fixed that for you, it's time to grow up and accept change. Memorizing spray patterns may have been a part of FPS games in the 90's, but it certainly isn't now. It has nothing to do with not accepting change. They're lowering the skill ceiling in order to appeal to bad players. CS:GO is another dumbed down rehash of 1.6, just like source, it has nothing to do with change. Look at Quake. The game is dead now because they didn't lower the skill gap from Quake 3 to Quake Live. The same top players are the same top players. No one was able to make an impact in that game except for Rapha. I bet you never took a step back and considered that the skill ceiling needed to be lowered. Look at it from both sides. Is that why CSS revitalized the CS community? The community that had over a million dollars circulating through it in 2007 and then ...
The ELO and match making system are how you control for different skill levels. You don't need to do it through mechanics. The skill floor is significantly higher and incomparable to an RTS like SC2.
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On October 14 2011 08:49 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2011 08:47 MattO1337 wrote:On October 14 2011 08:45 PepperoniPiZZa wrote:On October 14 2011 08:40 MattO1337 wrote:On October 14 2011 08:39 Jibba wrote:
It's not spraying and praying, it's a learned spray pattern, which every single FPS game in the past 12 years lacks. Fixed that for you, it's time to grow up and accept change. Memorizing spray patterns may have been a part of FPS games in the 90's, but it certainly isn't now. It has nothing to do with not accepting change. They're lowering the skill ceiling in order to appeal to bad players. CS:GO is another dumbed down rehash of 1.6, just like source, it has nothing to do with change. Look at Quake. The game is dead now because they didn't lower the skill gap from Quake 3 to Quake Live. The same top players are the same top players. No one was able to make an impact in that game except for Rapha. I bet you never took a step back and considered that the skill ceiling needed to be lowered. Look at it from both sides. Is that why CSS revitalized the CS community? The community that had over a million dollars circulating through it in 2007 and then ...
And then the CGS died? They were too ahead of their time. Nobody wanted to watch a TV show of 10 sweaty gamers playing a game that you couldn't even see because the spectators (djWHEAT and Fatal1ty) had the camera in 3rd person.
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I would take the stance that CSS killed counter strike in North America. We were having trouble against Euro's but we still able to win some big tournaments and were closing in on the skill gap. It was only when CSS came out and CGS dumped all that money into that bad game, you saw a split in the community and the american scene just never recovered. If CSS was never made I think Counter Strike would still be a huge Esport. Just my thoughts
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On October 14 2011 08:52 MattO1337 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2011 08:49 Jibba wrote:On October 14 2011 08:47 MattO1337 wrote:On October 14 2011 08:45 PepperoniPiZZa wrote:On October 14 2011 08:40 MattO1337 wrote:On October 14 2011 08:39 Jibba wrote:
It's not spraying and praying, it's a learned spray pattern, which every single FPS game in the past 12 years lacks. Fixed that for you, it's time to grow up and accept change. Memorizing spray patterns may have been a part of FPS games in the 90's, but it certainly isn't now. It has nothing to do with not accepting change. They're lowering the skill ceiling in order to appeal to bad players. CS:GO is another dumbed down rehash of 1.6, just like source, it has nothing to do with change. Look at Quake. The game is dead now because they didn't lower the skill gap from Quake 3 to Quake Live. The same top players are the same top players. No one was able to make an impact in that game except for Rapha. I bet you never took a step back and considered that the skill ceiling needed to be lowered. Look at it from both sides. Is that why CSS revitalized the CS community? The community that had over a million dollars circulating through it in 2007 and then ... And then the CGS died? They were too ahead of their time. Nobody wanted to watch a TV show of 10 sweaty gamers playing a game that you couldn't even see because the spectators (djWHEAT and Fatal1ty) had the camera in 3rd person.
I hope you're joking about CGS being ahead of their time.......
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On October 14 2011 08:53 Shelke14 wrote:
I would take the stance that CSS killed counter strike in North America. We were having trouble against Euro's but we still able to win some big tournaments and were closing in on the skill gap. It was only when CSS came out and CGS dumped all that money into that bad game, you saw a split in the community and the american scene just never recovered. If CSS was never made I think Counter Strike would still be a huge Esport. Just my thoughts
And I disagree because no spectator would pay to watch an HD stream of a game that has similar graphics to the nintendo 64. While I agree that it would still be alive and have much more money in it, I'm pretty sure it would be killed off by current esports games like SC2 and LoL.
Stream views are much more important now than they were in 2007(in terms of revenue). What organization would want to sponsor CS 1.6, a game that pulls in around 5-20k viewers, when they could sponsor a game that brings in millions of views.
Both CS 1.6 and CS:S fail at being spectator friendly.
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United States22883 Posts
No one wanted to watch CGS because no one was playing CSS. The 1.6 player numbers crushed CSS numbers (which were inflated because for some reason they included bots) until only a year or so ago, and now they're even.
People act like there's a linear curve of usability and ease, that will drift lower until we're all just a bunch of sponges playing Farmville because we won't tolerate any games harder than that.
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On October 14 2011 08:58 Jibba wrote:
No one wanted to watch CGS because no one was playing CSS. The 1.6 player numbers crushed CSS numbers (which were inflated because for some reason they included bots) until only a year or so ago, and now they're even.
People act like there's a linear curve of usability and ease, that will drift lower until we're all just a bunch of sponges playing Farmville because we won't tolerate any games harder than that.
Please be honest. Do you really think the CGS would have survived if 1.6 was the main game?
The CGS's only mistake was not making CS:S the main game. DoA4 is a joke in the fighting game community, CGS lost the respect of all the fighting game fans.
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United States22883 Posts
On October 14 2011 09:00 MattO1337 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2011 08:58 Jibba wrote:
No one wanted to watch CGS because no one was playing CSS. The 1.6 player numbers crushed CSS numbers (which were inflated because for some reason they included bots) until only a year or so ago, and now they're even.
People act like there's a linear curve of usability and ease, that will drift lower until we're all just a bunch of sponges playing Farmville because we won't tolerate any games harder than that. Please be honest. Do you really think the CGS would have survived if 1.6 was the main game? No, but American 1.6 would have survived if CGS didn't split the community.
DoA4 and those other shit games, along with poor management, hurt CGS more than CSS.
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On October 14 2011 09:00 MattO1337 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2011 08:58 Jibba wrote:
No one wanted to watch CGS because no one was playing CSS. The 1.6 player numbers crushed CSS numbers (which were inflated because for some reason they included bots) until only a year or so ago, and now they're even.
People act like there's a linear curve of usability and ease, that will drift lower until we're all just a bunch of sponges playing Farmville because we won't tolerate any games harder than that. Please be honest. Do you really think the CGS would have survived if 1.6 was the main game?
No because it was an extremely poorly ran joke. They changed the rules that ruined the game plus the way they did the drafting was just bad. Anyone remember I think Jason Lake recruited Belle for that fighting game two seasons in a row and she didn't even win a game and was by far the worst player at it yet got recruited every time.
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On October 14 2011 09:02 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2011 09:00 MattO1337 wrote:On October 14 2011 08:58 Jibba wrote:
No one wanted to watch CGS because no one was playing CSS. The 1.6 player numbers crushed CSS numbers (which were inflated because for some reason they included bots) until only a year or so ago, and now they're even.
People act like there's a linear curve of usability and ease, that will drift lower until we're all just a bunch of sponges playing Farmville because we won't tolerate any games harder than that. Please be honest. Do you really think the CGS would have survived if 1.6 was the main game? No, but American 1.6 would have survived if CGS didn't split the community. DoA4 and those other shit games, along with poor management, hurt CGS more than CSS.
Thank you, and I totally agree that 1.6 would be big right now in terms of players but it still wouldn't be able to compete for sponsors against newer games.
On October 14 2011 09:03 Shelke14 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2011 09:00 MattO1337 wrote:On October 14 2011 08:58 Jibba wrote:
No one wanted to watch CGS because no one was playing CSS. The 1.6 player numbers crushed CSS numbers (which were inflated because for some reason they included bots) until only a year or so ago, and now they're even.
People act like there's a linear curve of usability and ease, that will drift lower until we're all just a bunch of sponges playing Farmville because we won't tolerate any games harder than that. Please be honest. Do you really think the CGS would have survived if 1.6 was the main game? No because it was an extremely poorly ran joke. They changed the rules that ruined the game plus the way they did the drafting was just bad. Anyone remember I think Jason Lake recruited Belle for that fighting game two seasons in a row and she didn't even win a game and was by far the worst player at it yet got recruited every time.
The coaches and players were almost all pre-determined, however only a few were truly recruited. My friend Carl was legitimately recruited by Complexity, however he left the organization after 1 season of the CGS.
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On October 14 2011 09:02 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2011 09:00 MattO1337 wrote:On October 14 2011 08:58 Jibba wrote:
No one wanted to watch CGS because no one was playing CSS. The 1.6 player numbers crushed CSS numbers (which were inflated because for some reason they included bots) until only a year or so ago, and now they're even.
People act like there's a linear curve of usability and ease, that will drift lower until we're all just a bunch of sponges playing Farmville because we won't tolerate any games harder than that. Please be honest. Do you really think the CGS would have survived if 1.6 was the main game? No, but American 1.6 would have survived if CGS didn't split the community. DoA4 and those other shit games, along with poor management, hurt CGS more than CSS.
Jibba knows what he is talking about!
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United States22883 Posts
On October 14 2011 09:03 Shelke14 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2011 09:00 MattO1337 wrote:On October 14 2011 08:58 Jibba wrote:
No one wanted to watch CGS because no one was playing CSS. The 1.6 player numbers crushed CSS numbers (which were inflated because for some reason they included bots) until only a year or so ago, and now they're even.
People act like there's a linear curve of usability and ease, that will drift lower until we're all just a bunch of sponges playing Farmville because we won't tolerate any games harder than that. Please be honest. Do you really think the CGS would have survived if 1.6 was the main game? No because it was an extremely poorly ran joke. They changed the rules that ruined the game plus the way they did the drafting was just bad. Anyone remember I think Jason Lake recruited Belle for that fighting game two seasons in a row and she didn't even win a game and was by far the worst player at it yet got recruited every time.
A DoA4 player was more valuable than a CS player. frod was in his prime when he switched, but each CSS victory was worth the same as a DoA4 victory, so he was basically worth 1/5 of Belle.
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On October 14 2011 09:05 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2011 09:03 Shelke14 wrote:On October 14 2011 09:00 MattO1337 wrote:On October 14 2011 08:58 Jibba wrote:
No one wanted to watch CGS because no one was playing CSS. The 1.6 player numbers crushed CSS numbers (which were inflated because for some reason they included bots) until only a year or so ago, and now they're even.
People act like there's a linear curve of usability and ease, that will drift lower until we're all just a bunch of sponges playing Farmville because we won't tolerate any games harder than that. Please be honest. Do you really think the CGS would have survived if 1.6 was the main game? No because it was an extremely poorly ran joke. They changed the rules that ruined the game plus the way they did the drafting was just bad. Anyone remember I think Jason Lake recruited Belle for that fighting game two seasons in a row and she didn't even win a game and was by far the worst player at it yet got recruited every time. A DoA4 player was more valuable than a CS player. frod was in his prime when he switched, but each CSS victory was worth the same as a DoA4 victory, so he was basically worth 1/5 of Belle.
DoA4 was a bigger joke than Quake 4. The ruleset of that shitty game favored the players the CGS wanted to win. My friend Carl was the best DoA4 player in the world and he was screwed out of so many wins because he wasn't popular.
He's now the current reigning Mortal Kombat champion of the world, and where are the other pro CGS doa4 players? Nowhere.
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United States22883 Posts
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On October 14 2011 09:15 Jibba wrote:
Perfect Legend o.o
Yep ^_^
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EPT
