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On December 06 2011 17:35 skeldark wrote:
i played in this beta for long time and many patches now. I leveled many chars and different spells to the "end".
Im not playing it any more! I have the feeling the makers are not able to balance the game.
Im not talking about only about the balance between the different classes, its more the balance of player vs monster or spell vs spell, thats looks total random to me. There where many patches so far and i don't have the feeling one of them go in the right direction.
Most patches looks like hot fixes for an old game.
However this is a REAL beta so it can be quit annoying to play it. I still wish this game to be awesome, so i will wait until release now and check if they found a way to make it more interesting and balanced.
I feel the same as you. I have not played many characters to the end (actually I have yet to finish Act 1 of 3rd difficulty) but the game does not make me want to do that.
My feeling is like the game itself is designed to make it hard for players. You have to fight the game as much as you need to fight the monsters. Instead of giving us cool and fun skills/spells and letting us have useful items drops (with really good drops being really rare) and then having interesting and challenging monsters that are not about pure numbers (HP, damage, resistances) but their special abilities they decided to go the opposite way of all I said.
And they don't understand this. I don't think they will until open beta. Maybe I am just wrong, time will tell.
But it is telling when Diablo II is a lot more fun game then this one.
I need to add, yes the game is still in beta and many new skills are going to be added. BUT, since they have different skills system then D2 all skills need to be equally useful at lvl 1 and lvl 20 (of skill level) while in D2 they only needed to make sure lvl 24/30 skills were balanced. And so far by what we can see, their current skills are not good enough and any new skills that are good will then force them to remake these skills as well and I am not sure they will want to do that.
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Well I already quit when after the 20th boss kill and 20th large chest I haven't gotten a single rare drop. I know it's the beta blah blah but cmon, it's so disheartening.
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I have a beta key, but I don't want to give it just to the fastest person.
So you guys have 2 hours to PM me a message explaining why you deserve it. When 2 hours pass after this post was made I'll read them all and then PM the person who I think deserves it. I'll also update this post with the winner's name for clarity.
Westy got it.
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I have another PoE key. I'll trade it for a DOTA2 key...
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Having played it for a few weeks now, I feel comfortable commenting on it.
I haven't played through all the difficulties either, but I don't feel free this is necessary as, much like Diablo 2, you don't have to max out a character to have a good grasp on the game. While I understand Archangel's comment on it being a numbers game, I actually have to disagree to an extent. The different monster types have quite different behaviors and fighting them with different classes/builds can be very unique. As you level and proceed to higher difficulties, there is an issue where the numbers can get to you if you didn't do your build well, but I don't see this as a terrible problem.
For skills, I think there could be an improvement in variety. For example, I think it could use some sort of *bouncing* skill (eg, 100% to first target, 70% to a second, 50%). As for utility of the skills, I think it's actually quite good. Most of the skills I've seen have some use. While skill A may usually be the best skill to use, almost every skill has a particular situation where it's better than the other skills available. I think it's actually much better than Diablo 2 where you would be essentially limited to using 2 or 3 skills. Particularly the patch this week where your stats don't level themselves adds some variety, therefore you can't use *any* skill with any class unless you build your character for that.
It's worth mentioning that, for the most part, I play in hardcore mode. (For those who don't know, hardcore mode in PoE means that once you die, your character is moved out into default). This means I have to be able to balance my damage output vs my survivability. Particularly lately I've been trying a frenzy build with an archer. Essentially this means that I have an attack that when it hits adds a charge, and these charges only last ~12 seconds (for now). I can build up to 5 charges right now and while I'm charged I have much faster movement, attack damage, and attack speed. However, if I don't do one of these charge attacks the charges dissipate and I become much weaker than I would be with another build. Add this to the fact that the things that increase my damage (with this build) don't increase my survivability much if at all, and it comes to treading a fine line.
One more thing I like about the game are the race contests they have. They've been doing a weekly competition where it's a challenge to see who can reach the highest level from a new character in 3 hours (rewarding items for the top of each class). The latest also had rewards for the first to clear certain side-quests or side-zones. This can be exciting whether on normal or hardcore, as even on normal, death will slow you down (and later cost xp).
For a summary, I would agree that the game certainly isn't complete. There doesn't seem to be too much balance between the classes, and the defensive options don't seem to be balanced yet. The game only has Act 1 completed and maybe 90% of Act 2, but they used some placeholders so you can still play / test the game. In terms of bugs, the game is pretty stable and most bugs are minor. It's definitely beta, as it certainly isn't done yet, but shows a lot of promise.
While it may not appeal to quite the audience of Diablo 3, it seems to be a more challenging / customizable angle on the genre and being free-to-play will definitely be a plus when it's out. The graphics won't stand up to Diablo 3 however, even though they certainly aren't bad. A possible failing of the game is the possibility that it could be released after Diablo 3. While I can't be sure, it seems that story-wise it won't be ready soon. However, they could go with a free-to-play model they could use a technique where they add on content, which could work. As long as they release the game before Diablo 3, even if it's only Open Beta, I feel they have a good chance at making a successful game, even if not long lasting.
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Even compared to D2 monsters are either copy of D2 monsters or bland and boring. Probably the most interesting new monster is the one that starts as a melee crab and when you reduce its health to about 20% it throws away its shell and starts spitting at you and running away from you.
And I expect from the newer game to improve and expand on the older game it is trying to be a successor to. So far in this beta it is lagging behind D2 which is understandable. It is nowhere close to what Diablo II had when it came out and it is even more behind to LoD.
And actually with the way supports (and now curses work) and the way you only have 8 shortcuts for skills you don't use many in PoE as well. Actually this is what makes my Witch so boring to play. In D2 until you got to lvl 30 you used probably 10 different skills to kill monsters and after you got access to all skills you still used 5+ a lot (especially with elemental immunity that was introduced with LoD). So, no PoE has no edge over D2.
And its support system is a bit letdown. It is same crap as monsters. It only changes skills in some numbers. When I read about it few months ago before I got into beta I was awed because I though each support would change each skill in meaningful ways and was thinking of all the cool opportunities this would present.
But no, the current number of supports that actually do that is equal to 1 (multiple projectiles).
I am sorry to say but this game so far is small in scope and its only chance to survive is not to get out before D3 but a year after (or 9 months or so) when it is more or less finished and people are already getting bored of D3 and want something new.
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I'm not sure why you think the monsters are copies of D2 monsters, since the only one that strikes me as a copy are the zombies, skeletons, and spiders. Those monsters are pretty defined in games in general, so I can't blame them too much. Maybe the goats could be considered those leapy things, but really they just do the jump attack you yourself can get. I do agree that there aren't enough actual different monsters. If you consider it to only be 2 acts though, I I think it actually is comparable to how many monsters are in two acts of Diablo 2.
As for the Witch, I can't really speak too much on that class since I only brought my witch to about level 20. I do know there are other support gems which can be useful for a witch such as cold-to-fire and penetration. Plus, I believe they are continuing to add additional support gems. Heck, they haven't even put in the 6th class yet. The main things I think they *have* to do before "launch" is to add the 6th class, finish at least act 2, and ensure non-strength melee characters can be competitive (eg balance). Ironically, the witch may be the least diverse class. Your skills basically come down to 3 elements, one aoe and one single target spell for each (though lightning a bit different). For other classes, it mainly comes to "aoe attack", "single target attack", "elemental attack", "initiator", and "curses/buffs". Honestly, it's hard to control as many skills as it has since, unlike MMOs, the skills don't have *cooldowns* requiring you to chain-skills. Personally in Diablo 2 I would bee-line my skill tree to a target for a build, then only use 2 to 3 skills from that point on. Maybe 4 once the immunities started to be a problem. From what I recalled, if you spread out your skills in Diablo 2, you'd become useless in the later acts on nightmare difficulty.
From my perspective, the game doesn't need to be *complete* for it to launch. Since this is a free game, there isn't a requirement that it all be there at launch. Even the developers have said that they haven't really worked on balancing the higher difficulties yet (such as adding negative resistances). From my perspective, for the game to launch, it must be fun, not have holes, and be stable.
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I beat the game on normal difficulty with the Witch and I gotta say, the game felt kinda boring and tedious.
Mainly because everything in that game feels so overnerfed. Nothing really makes you feel strong and powerful. Most of the spells and abilities just make me feel like "meh, it's ok could be better". It's pretty absurd, I was always 2 or 3 levels over the general monster level and it took me 3 or 4 hits with my most powerful spells just to kill a regular enemy. And it doesn't feel even a bit challenging, it mostly just feels like a never ending grind. IMO I really feel like monster health should be halved and to compensate for that they should do more damage and come in greater numbers.
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On December 10 2011 15:56 Terr wrote:
I beat the game on normal difficulty with the Witch and I gotta say, the game felt kinda boring and tedious.
Mainly because everything in that game feels so overnerfed. Nothing really makes you feel strong and powerful. Most of the spells and abilities just make me feel like "meh, it's ok could be better". It's pretty absurd, I was always 2 or 3 levels over the general monster level and it took me 3 or 4 hits with my most powerful spells just to kill a regular enemy. And it doesn't feel even a bit challenging, it mostly just feels like a never ending grind. IMO I really feel like monster health should be halved and to compensate for that they should do more damage and come in greater numbers.
thats what i post on the betaforum for month but they dont listen.
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On December 07 2011 05:40 Saishuuheiki wrote:
I'm not sure why you think the monsters are copies of D2 monsters, since the only one that strikes me as a copy are the zombies, skeletons, and spiders. Those monsters are pretty defined in games in general, so I can't blame them too much. Maybe the goats could be considered those leapy things, but really they just do the jump attack you yourself can get. I do agree that there aren't enough actual different monsters. If you consider it to only be 2 acts though, I I think it actually is comparable to how many monsters are in two acts of Diablo 2.
As for the Witch, I can't really speak too much on that class since I only brought my witch to about level 20. I do know there are other support gems which can be useful for a witch such as cold-to-fire and penetration. Plus, I believe they are continuing to add additional support gems. Heck, they haven't even put in the 6th class yet. The main things I think they *have* to do before "launch" is to add the 6th class, finish at least act 2, and ensure non-strength melee characters can be competitive (eg balance). Ironically, the witch may be the least diverse class. Your skills basically come down to 3 elements, one aoe and one single target spell for each (though lightning a bit different). For other classes, it mainly comes to "aoe attack", "single target attack", "elemental attack", "initiator", and "curses/buffs". Honestly, it's hard to control as many skills as it has since, unlike MMOs, the skills don't have *cooldowns* requiring you to chain-skills. Personally in Diablo 2 I would bee-line my skill tree to a target for a build, then only use 2 to 3 skills from that point on. Maybe 4 once the immunities started to be a problem. From what I recalled, if you spread out your skills in Diablo 2, you'd become useless in the later acts on nightmare difficulty.
From my perspective, the game doesn't need to be *complete* for it to launch. Since this is a free game, there isn't a requirement that it all be there at launch. Even the developers have said that they haven't really worked on balancing the higher difficulties yet (such as adding negative resistances). From my perspective, for the game to launch, it must be fun, not have holes, and be stable.
Look all monsters but those spitters and the rock monsters that turn to monster from stone are same (and the rock monsters are same once they form). If they wanted to make them interesting rock monsters should hit ground and a rock spike would come out from the ground where you stand (and you could avoid it if you kept moving). Each monster should have an interesting attack instead of just running towards you and trying to hit you.
Diablo 2 with LoD and later patches had synergy for skills so you would put points in many different skills depending on your build. And for D2 Sorceres you would for sure use Frost Orb, teleport, mana shield, some fire spell and some lightning spell so that is 5. And maybe some other as well if you felt like it.
Support gem that turns part of cold damage to fire damage is fucking boring. Support gems should not do such boring stuff.
Support gem should reduce damage by 30% and as a result blast enemies away from the center of the blast with more levels of the support reducing damage penalty and increasing the distance enemies are blasted.
Support gems should turn a projectile spell into a AoE spell around your character but with a 50% damage bonus.
Or turn an arrow skills into homing arrow skill (similar to the one from D2). Or turn a single attack Melee skill into Whirlwind like skill that attacks with basic skills effect against all enemies in its area.
Or it could change a frost spell in such a way that where you cast it in addition to its normal effect it freezes the ground there and slows movement of all enemies for its duration.
Or projectile spells/skills leave a wall behind them that prevents movement for a while (similar to tauren chieftan ability from dota).
Or a support that after you cast your spell/skill randomly blinks your character away from monsters.
Or a support that you put on melee skills and after each attack your character turns ethereal for 1-2s and can pass through any enemies and gets a big defensive bonus for the duration but cannot attack (or attack cancels the effect) .
There are so many ways to make interesting supports that don't involve just playing with numbers like they do currently.
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This is a beta why are so many people complaining about how easy the game is T.T that can easily be changed. They don't even have vendor selling implemeneted yet, I have a level 73 Ranger and I LOVE the game, hwoever I have the highest dps of any ranger on the server as far as I know and since there's nothing past 58 chaos I kind of stopped playing.
ANYWAYS:I have a beta Key message me why you should get it and I will give it to someone on TL in the next few days
P.S I may accept bribes of coaching form a high diamond+Toss ;p
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I just got a PoE beta key not going to post it here so the first spammer can get it but send me PM and ill give it to the first deserving person. ( Tell me why i should give to you. )
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just got another invite key. I'm still looking for a DOTA2 key to trade for PoE invite... or someone with a really good story about why they deserve it.
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Im just a bit disappointed since im using the same split arrow skill since lvl 3.... I dont feel immerged in the story at all. is there any relevance between act 1 and 2. There was suddenly a ghost pirat ????
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If someone out there wants to hook me up with a beta invite I would gladly accept. ^_^
I've put thousands of hours into D2 and Blizzard still hasn't given me my D3 key TT so I would really enjoy trying this game out. =D
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On December 19 2011 07:45 Marradron wrote:
Im just a bit disappointed since im using the same split arrow skill since lvl 3.... I dont feel immerged in the story at all. is there any relevance between act 1 and 2. There was suddenly a ghost pirat ????
Nobody is forcing you to just use that one skill.
And story is still not in the game. But it should come before Open Beta.
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On December 19 2011 08:05 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2011 07:45 Marradron wrote:
Im just a bit disappointed since im using the same split arrow skill since lvl 3.... I dont feel immerged in the story at all. is there any relevance between act 1 and 2. There was suddenly a ghost pirat ???? Nobody is forcing you to just use that one skill. And story is still not in the game. But it should come before Open Beta.
No they dont force me to use that skill. but in any decent game there should be character progress. Besides some support gems there's hardly been any new options for me to use since lvl 1.
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On December 19 2011 19:00 Marradron wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2011 08:05 -Archangel- wrote:On December 19 2011 07:45 Marradron wrote:
Im just a bit disappointed since im using the same split arrow skill since lvl 3.... I dont feel immerged in the story at all. is there any relevance between act 1 and 2. There was suddenly a ghost pirat ???? Nobody is forcing you to just use that one skill. And story is still not in the game. But it should come before Open Beta. No they dont force me to use that skill. but in any decent game there should be character progress. Besides some support gems there's hardly been any new options for me to use since lvl 1.
Why should the game force you? Does Skyrim force you to play mage or archer?
Game gives you the tools and the means and lets you come up with a play style that suits you. What you complain is the best part of PoE. Complain about boring monsters with crap AI, complain about boring passive skills, complain about classes still being too similar, complain about drops being crap but please don't complain about lack of skills when you didn't bother to use more then one.
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Got a key a month ago and so far I really like the game. Sure, it is pretty raw still and needs a lot of numerical balancing. Sure, the story, part of vendor-system, part of social features, a whole character-class, a third of the total gameplay-content and a lot more skills are missing in the game at the moment. However, the game has a very high game-stability for a beta, it has a pretty good graphic and very few lighting-problems, stuck-problems and seams. They are promising to look at improving a lot of features and in general I think they are getting closer to the game they envisioned. Most players fail to realize that the game had a lot of its background-calculations completely redone in the patches so far to make it easier to balance the game in general. Except for being a bit frustrating for beta-testers it is necessary for when a lot more content enters the game and new features has to be balanced.
I have played all character-types to 30 and stopped there to avoid dealing with the later gameplay issues. I have to say that as soon as you start understanding the different weapons and abilities you get a lot better at balancing your build. A witch 3- or 4-hitting monsters is pretty normal in the beginning, it is not a mage from WOW. All of the other races can get to 2- or 3-hit medium-monsters easily throughout normal difficulty if that is what you want. Witch is the best class at handling many monsters at once, while Dualist is the best against most bosses 1v1. If you want to oneshot monsters, go two-handed marauder and get lucky with your drops.
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EPT
