EPTPath of Exile - Page 1675
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EchelonTee
United States5256 Posts
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Miragee
8620 Posts
On October 28 2021 10:58 EchelonTee wrote: I'm enjoying the league quite a bit, but no sign of reward buff coming is troubling. //Just read through what I wrote and it sounds very condescending. It's not my intention, I'm just baffled and also kinda annoyed by the knee-jerk-reaction culture we seem to have nowadays. People at large seem to not give things enough time to settle. Why is everyone so obsessed with the league mechanic showering everyone in currency? I mean, I'm fairly currency-starved as well atm. so I kinda get it but we have so many avenues of getting currency these days that it is really not necessary for the league mechanic to have a frontloaded reward system. You always have normal mapping strategies, Heist and Delve where you can make currency even before maps, Blight, Breach etc. etc. And it's not like this league won't be rewarding later, if you reach the state of perfecting items with Scourge mods (we are 1 week in...................) and scourged maps, which are already very rewarding at low level from all I have seen. The only comlaint I understand is that they take somewhat too long to create? Idk, maybe it's just me and I still remember the HC leagues back in the day when it was all risk no reward. The league mechanic was just there to kill you, lol. Nowadays the game is somehow unplayable if the league mechanic doesn't reward you a stack of chaos every 5 minutes while it was never easier to generate currency by other means. Changes I personally dislike so far: Crafting Bench locations, especially the socket ones... You get them so late now I actually traded for maps this time... Also, did they lower the spawn rate of lab trials in maps? I'm 85 and have yet to encounter a single one to be able to enter the eternal lab. I might buy a gift as well soon. | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5256 Posts
The first thing I'd say is that this league feels much less rewarding than others. I remember people complaining about Ultimatum's rewards, which pretty much gave 5-10C for free each map. So I get that people can overcomplain, but Scourge is a bit worse than things like that, IMO. The second point I'd make is that unlike old HC challenge leagues like Onslaught, Bloodlines or whatever, you're not always forced / challenged to engage with the mechanics. You have to make a conscious choice to engage with Scourge, and for a lot of people it feels like a bad idea. It's rippy and time consuming. So it feels a bit bad to make a choice that feels objectively wrong. I'm doing it anyways because it's fun, and there's potential for profit like you mentioned (scourge maps = good). It helps though, that I'm playing an extremely good map clearer (Bleedslinger Glad). I'm not actually having trouble with currency, especially considering I made a corrupted 6L Belly for like 35c. I think a large part of it is psychology, meaning how fun it is to do something along with how the rewards feel. It's partially an emotional reaction, which is why it's not always logical, but you can't simply disregard how content / rewards make you feel. When you get an Item with (16% reduced maximum Life + Reflects 77 Damage to Attackers), sure it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things. It's just like picking up a trash Watcher's Eye or something like that. But there's just something funny, sad, and memorable about getting such terrible rewards The last thing I'll say - yes other parts of the game are solid or improved for currency (Heist, Delve etc), but people typically like to play the new mechanic. For those who have played for years, sometimes the league mechanic is the only fresh new thing, so if it's not enjoyable for some reason, people are just going to quit. | ||
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Sapaio
Denmark2037 Posts
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HolydaKing
21254 Posts
On October 29 2021 02:07 Miragee wrote: Why is everyone so obsessed with the league mechanic showering everyone in currency? I mean, I'm fairly currency-starved as well atm. so I kinda get it but we have so many avenues of getting currency these days that it is really not necessary for the league mechanic to have a frontloaded reward system. You always have normal mapping strategies, Heist and Delve where you can make currency even before maps, Blight, Breach etc. etc. And it's not like this league won't be rewarding later, if you reach the state of perfecting items with Scourge mods (we are 1 week in...................) and scourged maps, which are already very rewarding at low level from all I have seen.. Exactly this. I love the league mechanic giving a lot of monsters to kill with high density as well. I use the league corruptions either when I try to double corrupt something and it leaves the item corrupted OR, what is much more often the case, I use it to potentially get something cool on some common uniques like Wanderlust. Of course I'm also using it for the maps which are highly rewarding. | ||
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Miragee
8620 Posts
On October 29 2021 05:00 EchelonTee wrote: I kinda get what you're saying. The massive amount of complaints is a bit much. Don't worry, I don't think you're being condescending. The first thing I'd say is that this league feels much less rewarding than others. I remember people complaining about Ultimatum's rewards, which pretty much gave 5-10C for free each map. So I get that people can overcomplain, but Scourge is a bit worse than things like that, IMO. I would agree with that. It's less rewarding than pretty much all of the recent leagues at first. I think the reason why people complained about Ultimatum was that it felt less rewarding than the previous league. Ritual was insane. Ultimatum was still insane but a bit less so. I heard the argument that they should have introduced a more medium rewarding league to accustom players to that but I don't think that will work if I look at Ultimatum... The second point I'd make is that unlike old HC challenge leagues like Onslaught, Bloodlines or whatever, you're not always forced / challenged to engage with the mechanics. You have to make a conscious choice to engage with Scourge, and for a lot of people it feels like a bad idea. It's rippy and time consuming. So it feels a bit bad to make a choice that feels objectively wrong. I guess. But if it wasn't an opt-in mechanic, people would complain they are forced to engage with a difficult mechanic. We have seen this before. The mechanic is very rippy but I feel like it's more of an early leveling and then late game mechanic. It's ok to approach it that way imho. It definitely promtotes building defenses, which is something a lot of players neglect. I'm doing it anyways because it's fun, and there's potential for profit like you mentioned (scourge maps = good). It helps though, that I'm playing an extremely good map clearer (Bleedslinger Glad). I'm not actually having trouble with currency, especially considering I made a corrupted 6L Belly for like 35c. Good for you! I mean, part of planing a starter build is considering the league mechanic imho. It was already clear from the trailer, that it would be lethal and time gated, so a good starter would be something with good clear speed, movement (speed, dot) and defenses. It's something I partly failed at because Earthquake has a long wind-up and delay so it's vulnerable for 1-2 seconds. By now I found ways to play around it (e.g. use EQ before shifting) but it's still not perfect. I think a large part of it is psychology, meaning how fun it is to do something along with how the rewards feel. It's partially an emotional reaction, which is why it's not always logical, but you can't simply disregard how content / rewards make you feel. When you get an Item with (16% reduced maximum Life + Reflects 77 Damage to Attackers), sure it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things. It's just like picking up a trash Watcher's Eye or something like that. But there's just something funny, sad, and memorable about getting such terrible rewards I think there need to be bad items for the good items to feel good. I don't have a problem with the example you mentioned nor those "added phys damage + deal no phys damage" cases. I personally think the weighting is off and we get way too many scourged items on the ground. From the interview with Chris it sounded like we would get one once in a while with a good chance of being awesome. It's the other way around now - and the changes won't fix this - where we get 20-30 per map (alch and go) and all of them are trash. I think it would have been much better to reduce the droprate by least 1:100 and use the "well rolled" system for the core stats. Secondly, it's definitely psychology. This is fine and humane. I still think it's sad that we move more and more away from getting satisfied by intrinsic rewards as opposed to extrinsic rewards. When I play a video game it would be awesome to just enjoy the moment, the gameplay, planning w/e. In PoE it feels like most people, at least the vocal ones, can't enjoy PoE without extrinsic rewards. This is a problem if the extrinsic rewards are not front-loaded, which in turn really limits design space... I would personally enjoy a league mechanic which would require some time to figure out but I don't think that's possible atm. The last thing I'll say - yes other parts of the game are solid or improved for currency (Heist, Delve etc), but people typically like to play the new mechanic. For those who have played for years, sometimes the league mechanic is the only fresh new thing, so if it's not enjoyable for some reason, people are just going to quit. I heard this argument before as well. Idk, how much do you have to play to engage with all of these mechanics every league? I think I personally play a lot but I haven't delved since Endless Delve. This is also the first league I planned on focussing on Blight. There is so much you can do and unless you play 10-16 hours a day, I can't imagine engaging with all the mechanics every league in a meaningful way. Or it's because I'm slow af and everyone blasts through all the content quickly and gets bored... On a different note: I found a Mjölner and Hegemony's... I kinda wish I would have found either of them back in the day. Hegemony's looks really weak now.  I might play a Mjölner build for a first time this league though. It's something that always looked very fun to me and could be great with the new shield if it is somehow affordable later (46 ex atm...). | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5256 Posts
"This is only a buff for people who already engaged with the mechanic. It's way too rippy so I don't want to engage with it but now I feel bad because the rewards are good."... People really saying that huh? xD I think they may have overbuffed it, you can just run scourged T1 map not baking all the way and get showered in loot. Takes some knowledge and prep thoughI guess. But if it wasn't an opt-in mechanic, people would complain they are forced to engage with a difficult mechanic. [...] Yeah it's kinda hard to win here. What I was trying to convey was that if the "optimal" strat is ignoring the league mechanic, then we have a problem. People are going to optimize the fun out of the game if they can, so it's nice if the league is designed so that's not a temptation.I think there need to be bad items for the good items to feel good. [...] I still think it's sad that we move more and more away from getting satisfied by intrinsic rewards as opposed to extrinsic rewards [...] I don't really disagree with anything here. Regarding intrinsic vs extrinsic rewards... gaming overall has moved more and more towards the latter, for better or for worse. I'm thinking of how most games seem to need progression, battle passes, etc. An ARPG is kinda inherently about the loot tho, so it's a bit different? I can enjoy a game / league even if rewards are low - if you're playing economy, we're all on a level playing field anyways. I heard this argument before as well. Idk, how much do you have to play to engage with all of these mechanics every league? [...] I'm not too fast either; I don't have too much time to play atm, I'm only like lvl 89 or something. But still the focus for me is Scourge over those other systems. TBH I was getting burnt out because of how much the other systems demanded time to be "optimal", but since they've been streamlined a lot I'm pretty happy this league.I'm still a bit salty about the Unique Weapons nerf. Technically it was the rare weapons were hyper buffed, but when old favorites like Hege's and Disfavour are nearly vendor trash, it's just sad. | ||
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Miragee
8620 Posts
I don't think it was the "optimal" strat to skip the league mechanic. It may have been perceived that way by many but it wasn't, even before the buffs. Unless you wanted to level, in which case you should skip the mechanic or don't go too hard on the stacks I don't think ARPGs are inherently about loot. Or maybe they are just not for me? The item system needs to be interesting for build creation. The actual looting can feel good but my best "loot" experiences are so far down the list of best poe (or any arpg) moments that you can basically consider them off the list. How is everyone doing btw.? I'm at 94 now, just switched to my Devouring Diadem setup, which lets me run all my auras with a level 2 Enlighten (exactly 1 mana left, lol). Tankiness feels ok now but it's not quite where I want it to be. I haven't gotten around to run a lot of Blights yet. I did some sessions in map and some blighted maps from zana. What I don't like is how unpredictably rippy they can be. Like, sometimes I try to build a tower and some monsters randomly decide to shoot at me or even charge me out of line and I get one shot. There is also one type of mob which consistently launches magma orbs at the rate of a machine gun. If they spawn, I can literally do nothing because they cover the entire screen and if I stop to build something I die. I can do nothing but lose the encounter... Maybe I'm doing something wrong? :/ I also just attempted Sirus for the first time again (had him sitting there for more than a week now). I just wanted learn the fight a bit more so I decided to go for A0... What ended up happening was that my game decided to run at sub 5 fps - either low fps or lag. I can't tell because the graph showed me constant 60 fps and 17 ms... I got him on my last portal and died. No idea how I got that far but I surely didn't learn anything... | ||
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FaCE_1
Canada6183 Posts
Hope the economy isn't too fuck when you start this late :| never did that before Will still go with a Bane / CI occulist, and will probably try a Soulrent delver during the delve event. | ||
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iloveav
Poland1479 Posts
Every time I search for how to make currency, it is always in league, because by the time that thing hits Standard, its no longer that valuable (with the exception of Harvest). If people are saying that league is now less rewarding, it may be GGG trying to push more towards slower/less loot explosion gameplay like they have been hinting over the last few expansions (like with hard mode). It is very interesting to me since I know GGG has been systematically nerfing everything each time they dont have new end game content coming up, since new powerful items would break the end game, while no new powerful items would have little to bring people back to PoE. I am legitimately interested in how GGG are going to try to go forward, since it seems the player base and the dev team have different ... future? for the game. | ||
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HolydaKing
21254 Posts
Rewards being bad is really a non issue if you know how bad it used to be in early leagues. Delve got mega buffed, I had like 5-10 times more resonators than last league while still playing less I think. Heist drops a fk ton of things, most people don't like it tho. Now actually crafting something good if you play SSF or don't want to buy everything is pretty rough at times. But if you don't expect too much you can get decent gear with Essences and Harvest quite easily. | ||
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Miragee
8620 Posts
On November 29 2021 19:19 FaCE_1 wrote: And.. I can finally start the league T__T Hope the economy isn't too fuck when you start this late :| never did that before Will still go with a Bane / CI occulist, and will probably try a Soulrent delver during the delve event. The current economy is very strange because so much of the gear gets krangled, often with little upsides and hard downsides. I'm at the point where I'm getting a bit bored of my mapper and want to start something fresh and thought about the Mjölnir I found. Then I searched for some items I might want to get and for example an uncorrupted Doryani's Prototype is 3ex+ atm. because 2/3 of them are corrupted, mostly in a shit state (socket- and/or downside-wise). I assume some gearing is very easy now. Getting decent rares to progress in maps will cost a handful of chaos to fill all slots for example. That's what it was like when I started late in Heist. There are also a good number of farms that make you money now that are available early. Thinking of low level Heisting, low tier mf, low tier scourged maps, Delve. On November 30 2021 00:35 iloveav wrote: I never played in a league (always in standard) and it seems to me that rewards have always been better in league rather than in standard. Every time I search for how to make currency, it is always in league, because by the time that thing hits Standard, its no longer that valuable (with the exception of Harvest). If people are saying that league is now less rewarding, it may be GGG trying to push more towards slower/less loot explosion gameplay like they have been hinting over the last few expansions (like with hard mode). It is very interesting to me since I know GGG has been systematically nerfing everything each time they dont have new end game content coming up, since new powerful items would break the end game, while no new powerful items would have little to bring people back to PoE. I am legitimately interested in how GGG are going to try to go forward, since it seems the player base and the dev team have different ... future? for the game. I have no idea how the standard economy works but I assume a lot of things are rewarding in leagues because of the economy reset. In Standard I expect the economy to be flooded with materials. | ||
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Miragee
8620 Posts
On November 30 2021 06:34 Miragee wrote: What's the point of Endless Heist? I like Heist a lot but I don't get the event tbh. Maybe I'm going to try it anyways, will see. Atlas Invasion sounds interesting and I will play Endless Delve again. I'm tending towards Toxic Rain or Caustic Arrow, just to get phasing because last time it was super painful until I got a quartz flask. Did anybody play? I ended up with a Toxic Rain Champion. When I made the tree I realised how much stuff you get just from the tree for this build, which is awesome for SSF. Both phasing and onslaught before lvl 30. I found a quicksilver at 50 and quartz at 85, that would have been so horrible... 100% spell supression, move speed, high armour, easy access to life as well as stun immunity and fortify from champion. :o I didn't have as much time to play unfortunately but reached lvl 91 and depth ~150. I delved sideways for a while at 100 to level my gems and get my gear sorted and made the last push to 150 yesterday evening. With a bit more time I could have gone quite a bit further I think. Here's what it looked like: https://pastebin.com/WmySUY0W Unfortunately, I didn't manage to find anything to be able to run Grace as well. I think I will skip Gauntlet. The disconnects are killing me... No point in playing HC. Maybe I will give Endless Heist a go, not sure yet. | ||
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HolydaKing
21254 Posts
I tried one build in Gauntlet, died early and skipped it. I will skip Heist too. The event after it, I don't know yet... maybe that also, might be good to skip PoE for a while to get more fun in the next real league. | ||
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haitike
Spain2722 Posts
Endless Delve was fun, reached near 80 with elemental hit. Gauntlet is hard (I'm not used to hardcore). I already died at level 40 and level 22. I'm being careful outleveling areas by 4-5 levels but still, last time the weaver spider killed me in Act 2 lol. I'm using spectral helix but maybe in the third try I switch to other skill. Endless heist should be easy to reach level 50. | ||
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Miragee
8620 Posts
On December 14 2021 06:53 HolydaKing wrote: I played two chars, one Spectral Helix 2h Axe Slayer to lvl 85 just to try Spectral Helix and also because I haven't played Slayer in forever. The second one was a Necromancer using Soulwrest (which I found on the former char) and Phantasms which I played till lvl 90 - it was fun but I did not know they gutted the Life on Block from Bone Offering so it ended up worse than I thought. But it wasn't the defense that made me not like it too much - it was the offense. It carried me to "red maps" monster level quite smoothly, and I moved as low as I think around 165, but after the "red maps" level my damage was pretty low for my liking. I tried one build in Gauntlet, died early and skipped it. I will skip Heist too. The event after it, I don't know yet... maybe that also, might be good to skip PoE for a while to get more fun in the next real league. I don't know exactly how they buffed Delve but the monsters feel more beefy at red map level than what I remember. Your last sentence might be a good idea. On December 14 2021 20:02 haitike wrote: I'm trying to reach level 50 at least in all 5 events (for the 5 lootboxes). Endless Delve was fun, reached near 80 with elemental hit. Gauntlet is hard (I'm not used to hardcore). I already died at level 40 and level 22. I'm being careful outleveling areas by 4-5 levels but still, last time the weaver spider killed me in Act 2 lol. I'm using spectral helix but maybe in the third try I switch to other skill. Endless heist should be easy to reach level 50. Lvl 40 and 22 seem good for a first try, no? From what I saw weaver massacres people left and right... Going for lvl 50 in all events sounds like a legit plan. Not what I would want to do because I want to have fun with the event and stopping at 50 feels unsatisfying to me. I also don't want to give GGG the impression I care for mystery boxes, lol. That trash can burn in hell. | ||
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HolydaKing
21254 Posts
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haitike
Spain2722 Posts
On December 15 2021 01:21 Miragee wrote: I don't know exactly how they buffed Delve but the monsters feel more beefy at red map level than what I remember. Your last sentence might be a good idea. Lvl 40 and 22 seem good for a first try, no? From what I saw weaver massacres people left and right... Going for lvl 50 in all events sounds like a legit plan. Not what I would want to do because I want to have fun with the event and stopping at 50 feels unsatisfying to me. I also don't want to give GGG the impression I care for mystery boxes, lol. That trash can burn in hell. The Weaver killed me again at level 25. I guess I will get chaos resistance next time. 50 is like a minimum objective to target, if I can I would like to play more. For example in endless delve I continued until level 80. Gauntlet and endless heist I don't think I will play a lot more after 50. But I will try to play far into maps in the boss invasion and delirium events. They both sound fun. | ||
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FaCE_1
Canada6183 Posts
Actually looking forward to heist event, it can be fun, will try to go to lvl 85+ The invasion event seem a bit meh. Delirium event is the one i'm mostly looking for. Also, the fact that I started the league in december, I still enjoy playing it and just started to try to farm a bit (~20ex in pocket). | ||
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Miragee
8620 Posts
On December 15 2021 03:49 haitike wrote: The Weaver killed me again at level 25. I guess I will get chaos resistance next time. 50 is like a minimum objective to target, if I can I would like to play more. For example in endless delve I continued until level 80. Gauntlet and endless heist I don't think I will play a lot more after 50. But I will try to play far into maps in the boss invasion and delirium events. They both sound fun. Ok, that makes sense to me.  Delirium sounds miserable tbh. I dislike the mechanic.On December 15 2021 05:46 FaCE_1 wrote: Personnaly, did go to about lvl 80 for delve and won't bother with Gauntlet, just hate that thing. Actually looking forward to heist event, it can be fun, will try to go to lvl 85+ The invasion event seem a bit meh. Delirium event is the one i'm mostly looking for. Also, the fact that I started the league in december, I still enjoy playing it and just started to try to farm a bit (~20ex in pocket). Good to hear you are having a good time with the late start. I'm currently trying to get a Lightning Strike Berserker with Mjölnir up in between events. It's likely going to be an utter trash build but I wanted to try something different... I started Endless Heist and it feels kinda slow? You basically can't run contracts above your level because you only get drops that are equal your level. I also expected it to be harder at early levels because Heist monsters usually hit quite hard with some spells and sometimes you get swarmed - both things low level chars are usually bad against. I'm only at 27 but so far I haven't been close to dying. The starting shield really is OP. I also got lucky and found a Tabula at lvl 13, so I'm probably going to be able to push a bit quicker once I can fill up all the links. | ||
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