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On July 16 2021 22:27 HolydaKing wrote:
While I don't think A1 is the act that needs to be harder, it becoming harder is a non issue for me. I've played Gauntlet often enough now and I doubt it''s going to be harder than that. How do you cope with it becoming harder? Well, by farming some zones before doing tough bosses/zones. If you overlevel you get more res from items, can use more links/skills and the skills become stronger, it's huge. Maybe rushing through the zones while being underleveled won't work anymore, but it probably will for more skilled folks like TYTYKiller / Imexile.
This is more of a game design and direction conversation to me. I agree that buffing act 1 isn't going to make any difference, but they did say reworking each act over the next patches. I just see it as everyone will continue rushing through the zones being under leveled. The builds that are viable to do this with will just shrink drastically.
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Wonder if the better boss drops will work and make a difference. To be honest read about it last patch and didn't notice a difference, so want to see it work before i will be excited about it. In theory it should help make it easier to level and counter act the buffs to mobs.
I like the idea of making new gems that doesn't have to fit into a type. But as other have said there are many unused gems that need love. It's hard to say what gem will be a success, but ambush seems like a great gem that can be useful for many build.
Voltaxic Burst seems like a good gem to self cast for melee builds that can be used in many builds.
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Just tried battle royal and for me it's the most rage inducing shit mode ever. Good thing I stayed away from all the battle royal crap that was popular years ago. Not for me.
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I kind of like watching it at twitch.tv :D I also managed my first win after like 10-20 tries, with Molten Strike. It's not bad imo, but you can kinda safe yourself some time if you don't manage to find a good AoE skill in the first 2-3 chests. Take what you get, even Spectral Throw works, and gtfo from other players if possible, move towards the center and level up to like 8-10 ideally.
Blight works the easiest and is kinda good, but I think Molten Strike with sufficient gear shits on it, as does Cyclone. But to compete with Blight gamers you need to level quickly and not get killed. Explosive Arrow and all kinds of Freezing builds such as Freezing Pulse or Ice Shot can also work if things work out nicely. Also seen a Ball Lightning player make top 3.
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I am not happy with any of the changes, even good ones (flask) are done badly.
Over time PoE engame has become needlesly deadly and grindy just to make streamers happy and engaged and next league is going to become worst version yet.
Since Legion I had very little fun playing PoE and it has been getting worse.
I am still going to wait for patch notes but if these nerfs are only on players side even Frozen Orb will not get me back.
I will rather go play another league of Path of Diablo
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On July 17 2021 04:58 HolydaKing wrote:
I kind of like watching it at twitch.tv :D I also managed my first win after like 10-20 tries, with Molten Strike. It's not bad imo, but you can kinda safe yourself some time if you don't manage to find a good AoE skill in the first 2-3 chests. Take what you get, even Spectral Throw works, and gtfo from other players if possible, move towards the center and level up to like 8-10 ideally.
Blight works the easiest and is kinda good, but I think Molten Strike with sufficient gear shits on it, as does Cyclone. But to compete with Blight gamers you need to level quickly and not get killed. Explosive Arrow and all kinds of Freezing builds such as Freezing Pulse or Ice Shot can also work if things work out nicely. Also seen a Ball Lightning player make top 3.
Well watching it is probably an entirely different beast. I wasn't even able to open any chest myself. Picked up random gems left behind by other players. Any player you face early on is endless kiting until one side desides to bail. The rest of the time you run around until you get killed by somebody far more powerful. I know there is a ton of room for improvement, I'm shit, but in general I don't like pvp that very dependent on luck.
Blight is nice, I agree. Never killed anybody with it though because everyone ran until I got kited to death by someone with ice shot.
On July 16 2021 22:10 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2021 20:37 Miragee wrote:
As for the acts: Imho they mostly feel like chore because you basically get nothing out of them but level/passive points and they are faceroll content. I think they would be more enjoyable if players had more of a challenge and have to pay attention instead of falling asleep. I don't know, but I felt the original acts were more engaging to play through, same with D2. However, I know other people have a different opionion on that. There is a reason why most people got rushed through the acts in D2 on every single character... The problem with the level rebalancing is that it can't have the desired effect. The content being far less challenging than the league mechanics is a problem. However, the optimal strategy to run through clearing the least amount of stuff is just optimal aRPG play. The best loot is after the campaign and it will always be true unless the game has one of the broken leagues where farming certain pre map zones is better. The leveling being more difficult just means I need to play some cookie cutter leveling build and respec to waste the least amount of my time leveling up. With the support gem changes it will be interesting to see how hard the game is for an average build.
I'm not sure what you describing is actually a majority of the player base. Might be, I don't know. The thing is, if you view anything that doesn't give you "the best rewards" as pointless, then most of the game is. I think there is meaningful progression that can be done throughout the story in aRPG - PoE just doesn't do it well and the reasons are mostly easy respeccing combined with the fact that every char can use any skill early on. Imho respeccing should be much harder in a game like this.
Also, I think today's attitude to measure everything in rewards is very unhealthy. When did it become a wide-spread thing that rewards are the only thing that matter? Having a fun, challenging campaign could be rewarding in itself, no?
On July 16 2021 10:25 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
GGG has to keep adding these new toys to play with because why would we want to play otherwise. The problem is they won't or can't make harder content because the game has to fit into their 90 day league cycle. If you couldn't start doing Maven encounters until after you beat A8 Sirius most people wouldn't be able to get there. I'd much rather see them banish the campaign to an alternate line like Diablo 3 did and add on meaningful content after what we have than rebalance a campaign I despise playing every league as a waste of time.
1. Do they have to add these new toys in the way they did though? I think the logical fallacy here is that you have to add bigger numbers everytime. PoE is perfectly suited to just broaden the amount of options to a players, which they do anyways, instead of adding rawr power. More options lead to power creep as well, don't get me wrong, but to a much lesser extent. The original Guild Wars is a good example. Except for the abominable PvE skills in the last expansion, they never added stuff that straight up increased player damage/health/etc. by 20% or more. They still needed to rebalance (and would need to again) because more option also inherently make the player more versatile and thus more powerful. However, it's nowhere near the 10-fold increase we have apparently experience in PoE.
Why make cluster jewels or influenced items straight up more powerful? They should have added "interesting" stuff with them instead. Tbf, they partly did that as well but it was mostly a power boost. And elevated mods are just not a good idea if you consider power creep. They could have made the maven orb access its own pool of affixes with a similar power level instead.
2. Making the game harder doesn't necessarily mean you need to grind more to get there. That would be the easy solution from the developer's point of view because they only have to crank up numbers and you need more gear - which I don't think is making the content actually harder, just more time-consuming. One alternative would be for bosses to hit harder/be more punishing but don't have ridiculous numbers of health. That way people with lower dps/worse gear can still do them if they play the mechanics, which are hard, but without having to stay alive for 40 minutes...
I don't think they should abolish the campaign but having an alternative way to get to maps would be great. A second campaign + Delve as an option, as discussed during endless delve, would be a giant step forward to combat the repetitiveness.
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Is reddit's meltdown over the upcoming changes justified to some extent, or overblown? Haven't really had the time to check out all the new info personally
I do hope flask piano is truly dead though, hand pains have been gettin worse for me over the years
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The bashing of support pack seem some what justified, only showing it in Darkness and not in Light in preview.
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On July 18 2021 08:27 EchelonTee wrote:
Is reddit's meltdown over the upcoming changes justified to some extent, or overblown? Haven't really had the time to check out all the new info personally
I do hope flask piano is truly dead though, hand pains have been gettin worse for me over the years
I haven't seen it but probably overblown. Nothing will fundamentally change with this patch except how flask micro will feel (unless you build for them), unless they reveal something drastic in the patch notes they haven't touched on during the livestream.
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Yeah I feel it's more of a flask nerf than flask fix. They butchered Basalt Flask for non-armour stackers for example (RIP 15% phys dmg reduction), and they nerf ailment & curse removal quite heavily.
From what I understand, the flasks get charges more slowly, they can't be spammed (I mean, they can, but they won't activate unless the flask duration is over), and apparently most if not all utility flasks use more flask charges.
All in all, it's just a heavy nerf defensively for most people. Offensively especially for people that used things like Bottle of Faith. If monster damage just stays the same as it is, that'll mean you are better off playing a more tanky character, preferably with ailment immunity from Ascendancy (if that even still exists). If they don't remove ailment immunities from Ascendancies, I'm absolutely not liking the changes they do to the flasks regarding removing ailments. Because I'd have a hard time not picking classes like Raider, Inquisitor or Elementalist.
The conditional stuff is cute and probably better than nothing if you're wanting to play a lazy build, but it's hard for me to see it as being good.
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On July 18 2021 19:53 HolydaKing wrote:
Yeah I feel it's more of a flask nerf than flask fix. They butchered Basalt Flask for non-armour stackers for example (RIP 15% phys dmg reduction), and they nerf ailment & curse removal quite heavily.
From what I understand, the flasks get charges more slowly, they can't be spammed (I mean, they can, but they won't activate unless the flask duration is over), and apparently most if not all flasks use more flask charges.
All in all, it's just a heavy nerf defensively for most people. Offensively especially for people that used things like Bottle of Faith. If monster damage just stays the same as it is, that'll mean you are better off playing a more tanky character, preferably with ailment immunity from Ascendancy (if that even still exists). If they don't remove ailment immunities from Ascendancies, I'm absolutely not liking the changes they do to the flasks regarding removing ailments. Because I'd have a hard time not picking classes like Raider, Inquisitor or Elementalist.
The conditional stuff is cute and probably better than nothing if you're wanting to play a lazy build, but it's hard for me to see it as being good.
Well they said they will make changes to other sources of ailment immunities. Lets see if they meant nerfs or buffs.
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On July 18 2021 19:59 Miragee wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2021 19:53 HolydaKing wrote:
Yeah I feel it's more of a flask nerf than flask fix. They butchered Basalt Flask for non-armour stackers for example (RIP 15% phys dmg reduction), and they nerf ailment & curse removal quite heavily.
From what I understand, the flasks get charges more slowly, they can't be spammed (I mean, they can, but they won't activate unless the flask duration is over), and apparently most if not all flasks use more flask charges.
All in all, it's just a heavy nerf defensively for most people. Offensively especially for people that used things like Bottle of Faith. If monster damage just stays the same as it is, that'll mean you are better off playing a more tanky character, preferably with ailment immunity from Ascendancy (if that even still exists). If they don't remove ailment immunities from Ascendancies, I'm absolutely not liking the changes they do to the flasks regarding removing ailments. Because I'd have a hard time not picking classes like Raider, Inquisitor or Elementalist.
The conditional stuff is cute and probably better than nothing if you're wanting to play a lazy build, but it's hard for me to see it as being good. Well they said they will make changes to other sources of ailment immunities. Lets see if they meant nerfs or buffs.
Yep, can't wait for the manifesto especially, that usually gives some good info on things that get meaningful changes.
I'd guess it's nerfs though, pretty sure I heard the ailment avoidance mod on helmets gets removed. 
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On July 18 2021 08:27 EchelonTee wrote:
Is reddit's meltdown over the upcoming changes justified to some extent, or overblown? Haven't really had the time to check out all the new info personally
I do hope flask piano is truly dead though, hand pains have been gettin worse for me over the years
Hard to say before patch notes but I lost confidence in GGG long time ago so I would say reddit is right.
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I mean if you see who posts on reddit and which posts get upvoted, it doesn't really need any more investigation. Like look in this thread, the average high voted user quit ultimatum before really experiencing it. Many people are just not enjoying PoE anymore and still need to play it a few days and shit on it afterwards whenever possible.
I'm not agreeing with everything GGG does and if we are moving towards PoE 2 as it was advertised in the trailers at Exilecom, it's very possible that the game won't be enjoyable for me anymore, as the idea of having multiple 6 links and needing to use several skills to do shitty damage against bosses isn't fun to me. But so far it's still the most enjoyable ARPG by far for me, and I agree with GGG that a patch that tunes down power creep a bit is a good idea. Second most enjoyable ARPG for me would either be Median XL D2 Mod or Grim Dawn (D2 mod is good here!).
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On July 18 2021 22:58 HolydaKing wrote:I mean if you see who posts on reddit and which posts get upvoted, it doesn't really need any more investigation. Like look in this thread, the average high voted user quit ultimatum before really experiencing it. Many people are just not enjoying PoE anymore and still need to play it a few days and shit on it afterwards whenever possible. I'm not agreeing with everything GGG does and if we are moving towards PoE 2 as it was advertised in the trailers at Exilecom, it's very possible that the game won't be enjoyable for me anymore, as the idea of having multiple 6 links and needing to use several skills to do shitty damage against bosses isn't fun to me. But so far it's still the most enjoyable ARPG by far for me, and I agree with GGG that a patch that tunes down power creep a bit is a good idea. Second most enjoyable ARPG for me would either be Median XL D2 Mod or Grim Dawn (D2 mod is good here!).
This is the core or the issue and I am in that group as well. And that is GGG fault, not ours.
But Chris is a retard that thinks the problem is that the game is too rewarding and not grindy enough.
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On July 18 2021 23:14 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2021 22:58 HolydaKing wrote:I mean if you see who posts on reddit and which posts get upvoted, it doesn't really need any more investigation. Like look in this thread, the average high voted user quit ultimatum before really experiencing it. Many people are just not enjoying PoE anymore and still need to play it a few days and shit on it afterwards whenever possible. I'm not agreeing with everything GGG does and if we are moving towards PoE 2 as it was advertised in the trailers at Exilecom, it's very possible that the game won't be enjoyable for me anymore, as the idea of having multiple 6 links and needing to use several skills to do shitty damage against bosses isn't fun to me. But so far it's still the most enjoyable ARPG by far for me, and I agree with GGG that a patch that tunes down power creep a bit is a good idea. Second most enjoyable ARPG for me would either be Median XL D2 Mod or Grim Dawn (D2 mod is good here!). This is the core or the issue and I am in that group as well. And that is GGG fault, not ours. But Chris is a retard that thinks the problem is that the game is too rewarding and not grindy enough.
Just out of curiosity: What direction do you want for PoE, what kind of changes? Or more general, what would be your perfect vision for the game?
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On July 19 2021 03:03 Miragee wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2021 23:14 -Archangel- wrote:On July 18 2021 22:58 HolydaKing wrote:I mean if you see who posts on reddit and which posts get upvoted, it doesn't really need any more investigation. Like look in this thread, the average high voted user quit ultimatum before really experiencing it. Many people are just not enjoying PoE anymore and still need to play it a few days and shit on it afterwards whenever possible. I'm not agreeing with everything GGG does and if we are moving towards PoE 2 as it was advertised in the trailers at Exilecom, it's very possible that the game won't be enjoyable for me anymore, as the idea of having multiple 6 links and needing to use several skills to do shitty damage against bosses isn't fun to me. But so far it's still the most enjoyable ARPG by far for me, and I agree with GGG that a patch that tunes down power creep a bit is a good idea. Second most enjoyable ARPG for me would either be Median XL D2 Mod or Grim Dawn (D2 mod is good here!). This is the core or the issue and I am in that group as well. And that is GGG fault, not ours. But Chris is a retard that thinks the problem is that the game is too rewarding and not grindy enough. Just out of curiosity: What direction do you want for PoE, what kind of changes? Or more general, what would be your perfect vision for the game?
Slower game more similar to D2 with less grinding needed to get to bosses where combat is not kill them in 1s or they kill you in 1s. End game that is more about fun content and less about mindless grinding. Item system that either goes SSF friendly or goes full trade.
If the game needs to stop being F2P for all this, so be it.
Also cut out all league mechanics that take you out of the main game without being their own big thing like Delve (or Heist if it was fun).
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I would agree with the atlas taking way too long to complete, grinding watchstones became a bit tedious after doing it multiple times and if they nerf clear speed as they intend to, they better speed up atlas progression as well, or at least make it different. That being said, I learned you can also buy watchstones if you want to skip some grinding which is kinda cool, but that's obviously not a thing in SSF.
On another note, what are the builds people in here that are planning to play the next league are wanting to play? If Raider doesn't get nerfed in a bad way, I could see myself playing a Storm Rain Ballista totem build, could be decent.
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I will league start with one of the new skills for the first time. I try to avoid it because it is risky, but with 19 new skills I can't resist it. I have several ideas (just theorycrafting right now).
* One idea is Soulwrest with the 21 phantasms auto-created on kill and the new reaper minion eating some of the phantasms for buffs (6 socket phantasms on staff, 6 link reaper on armour. Or maybe is better both sharing links?).
* I though too about starting Chaos Spellslinger (essence drain, contagion, soulrend) and then switching later on maps to self-casting the new chaos skill (forbidden rite) with a hybrid life/ES build. Altough I don't know if spellslinger will waste mana now with the trigger changes.
* A stun character with the new bone shatter skill (AoE on stun) and another skill for single target (double strike, heavy strike, etc.). A champion or juggernaut maybe. It should be tanky and safe with all the stuns, and you get some AoE for clearing.
* The skill that is like Diablo 2 frozen orb could be interesting, maybe deadeye with some fork and extra proyectiles.
* There are other cool new gems, but I didn't think any build yet.
I will wait some days until patch notes and such, but the idea is after choosing the new skill, having a backup gem that fit the build, in case the new skill sucks.
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On July 19 2021 19:25 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2021 03:03 Miragee wrote:On July 18 2021 23:14 -Archangel- wrote:On July 18 2021 22:58 HolydaKing wrote:I mean if you see who posts on reddit and which posts get upvoted, it doesn't really need any more investigation. Like look in this thread, the average high voted user quit ultimatum before really experiencing it. Many people are just not enjoying PoE anymore and still need to play it a few days and shit on it afterwards whenever possible. I'm not agreeing with everything GGG does and if we are moving towards PoE 2 as it was advertised in the trailers at Exilecom, it's very possible that the game won't be enjoyable for me anymore, as the idea of having multiple 6 links and needing to use several skills to do shitty damage against bosses isn't fun to me. But so far it's still the most enjoyable ARPG by far for me, and I agree with GGG that a patch that tunes down power creep a bit is a good idea. Second most enjoyable ARPG for me would either be Median XL D2 Mod or Grim Dawn (D2 mod is good here!). This is the core or the issue and I am in that group as well. And that is GGG fault, not ours. But Chris is a retard that thinks the problem is that the game is too rewarding and not grindy enough. Just out of curiosity: What direction do you want for PoE, what kind of changes? Or more general, what would be your perfect vision for the game? Slower game more similar to D2 with less grinding needed to get to bosses where combat is not kill them in 1s or they kill you in 1s. End game that is more about fun content and less about mindless grinding. Item system that either goes SSF friendly or goes full trade. If the game needs to stop being F2P for all this, so be it. Also cut out all league mechanics that take you out of the main game without being their own big thing like Delve (or Heist if it was fun).
Tbh, that's pretty much in line with what I would want. D2 honestly had pretty good boss balance (very likely unintended) but very few builds with insane gear could actually delete bosses in a couple seconds. On the other hand, I don't want 20 minutes fights, either. Should be in the range von 30s to 5 minutes imho with decent gear.
On league mechanics I kind of agree as well. Maybe not entirely cut them but make a small selection an rotate them each league? Similar to the options in the map device. Or make it so you can chose which ones to enable (map device, atlas passives).
Grind: Yes. I don't think it's healthy in the long run for the atlas to take so long to complete. Even if you are not entirely reward driven, it just feels bad if you farm content and you know you could get double the rewards if you picked some passives, complete more maps etc. Less grinding for bosses? Tbf my memory is a bit clouded but I remember key farming was pretty tedious in D2, which I would consider a similar experience to Elder/Shaper Fragments. Also D2's endgame was super grindy because there wasn't that much to do.
Regarding trade: Isn't it full trade anyways? They don't balance drops around SSF.
I like Heist btw. and there are others who enjoy it as well. Not every single thing needs to appeal to everyone. 
On July 19 2021 19:42 HolydaKing wrote:
If Raider doesn't get nerfed in a bad way, I could see myself playing a Storm Rain Ballista totem build, could be decent.
Raider will be a top choice because of perma phasing, which will be very scarce now that they nerf flask uptime.
I will probably start with one of the new skills as well. Likely Frozen Orb, maybe on Deadeye with chaining/bouncing off walls as haitike suggested. I also want to try the Flask skill. Another option would be some bleed bow build.
Following up on that question: What did people end up playing in Ultimatum?
I had 3 chars in the end: 1. My Ice Trap Raider I started with. Good starter I enjoyed and Heisting with it was very chill. Very quick and safe, I never died once. 2. VGS Champion which was quite fun. Used it for a bit of bossing, Safehouses, Maven Invitations in the end. And finally I ended up playing my fire dot stacker I had in mind for a while this league and I liked it a lot. Was a good addition in the end as a mapper.
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EPT
