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On September 12 2020 06:55 HolydaKing wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2020 05:46 Duka08 wrote:
I actually missed the Discharge changes on a first read, since it wasn't featured in the demo video. Sounds like it could be neat. Solid league for self-casty boys. I haven't tried or paid much attention to the archmage-based Hiero playstyles in the last couple leagues, but the new lightning spell seems like it'd replace Arc just fine in one of those. Dunno about Archmage, for Archmage self cast you generally want to use Unleash IMO since the manacosts get really high on a 6L with good gear (talking 1-2k per cast here), so since you wanna use the mana for defense (if not ES based with Ivory Tower; life build with Agnostic + MoM is really good but requires a ton of mana regen) as well it doesn't work out well. And for the lightning spell it seems you want to cast a lot and use Intensity (which it also already has by default), so I don't think it's a good fit for Archmage. Also imo Ball Lightning > Arc for Unleash Archmage builds. Cremation and BL are probably the best for Archmage builds, the new Firestorm might also be good idk.
Maybe co-opting a self-cast Divine Ire build then? The spells seem pretty similar, just love the visuals of the new one. Though I thought most self-cast Ire builds try to take advantage of heavy conversion shenanigans for lots of their damage, esp with Trickster's Harness the Void and such. Might be wrong though, haven't tried it myself, just looked at it a few leagues back. In fact I haven't done much self-cast anything outside of ED/Contagion, so I just really don't know what the hotness is to make it feel strong other than constantly hearing about Archmage bullshit like I mentioned.
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I am curious what folks think about the new single target variants of the charge based curses.
Are they worth using any more?
Do we know for instance if you cast multiple times over a mob, will it always choose the same target? Will a different target be chosen at random, will it add a second monster to be cursed?
I kinda see them as a waste of space at first glance.
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On September 12 2020 09:03 kramvti wrote:
I am curious what folks think about the new single target variants of the charge based curses.
Are they worth using any more?
Do we know for instance if you cast multiple times over a mob, will it always choose the same target? Will a different target be chosen at random, will it add a second monster to be cursed?
I kinda see them as a waste of space at first glance.
I think they be design is for Attack based builds, and should be auto cast in some way. The other way to use it would be self cast on bosses.
So find a ring or glove with curse on hit, use a curse on hit gem, with leap slam/shield charge and fortify. That kind of thing.
It's more kinda of a nerf to curse support build as I see it.
Edit:
Just thought of if blasphemy would work with a single target mark. This a just an idea Maybe marks and hexes use different counters.
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On September 12 2020 13:36 Sapaio wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2020 09:03 kramvti wrote:
I am curious what folks think about the new single target variants of the charge based curses.
Are they worth using any more?
Do we know for instance if you cast multiple times over a mob, will it always choose the same target? Will a different target be chosen at random, will it add a second monster to be cursed?
I kinda see them as a waste of space at first glance. I think they be design is for Attack based builds, and should be auto cast in some way. The other way to use it would be self cast on bosses. So find a ring or glove with curse on hit, use a curse on hit gem, with leap slam/shield charge and fortify. That kind of thing. It's more kinda of a nerf to curse support build as I see it. Edit: Just thought of if blasphemy would work with a single target mark. This a just an idea Maybe marks and hexes use different counters.
i cant imagine marks being usable with blasphemy tbh. They are a single target skill now, and i`m pretty sure you have to cast it on the one mob that you want to mark.
As they lose the 66% effectiveness reduction on bosses that we have in the game right now, they should be VERY much worth it on bosses unless they somehow cripple them to oblivion with the patch.
Could also imagine changes that give charges on hit vs unique mobs instead of on kill as it is right now.
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Poacher's Mark - Integer Life and Mana gain on hit.
Frenzy charge on slain.
Monsters have less evasion.
Flask charge gain.
So the only benfit on bosses is more life gain and they have less evasion.
If you are already at the 3k magic number, then the only benefity we get on bosses is life/mana gain
Assassin's Mark- %Life and Mana gain on kill
Power charge on slain
% increase damage from cirt stirkes
Additional crit strike chance
So only benefit is %increase damage, and additional crit strike chance
Warlord's Mark- % life and mana steal on hit
Endurance charges on slain
Increase stun chance
Reduced stun and block recovery
So lifemana gain, stun chance, reduced stun and block recoviery
So again...I see very little benefit to the changes at all
For % life/mana gain, most attack based builds are going to have other ways to already be at cap for life gain, and rates. Mana gain is a small benefit.
Any mechanics on slain is useless on bosses.
Stun chances, and reduction to recovery in theory is nice, but their thresholds are so high that I still don't see that you will be stunlocking anything.
Flat 1.5% (at level 20) to crit chance is again minimal when most crit based builds are very high chances already through the tree.
What am I not seeing that makes them 'strong' on bosses
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Those (soon) Mark skills will get new passives on the skill tree around the Ranger area which will make them more appealing. It's entirely unsure how they changed these skills, plus maybe they removed curse on hit for Mark skills. At least it sounds weird to me to have a Marks on hit considering they can only apply to one target at maximum. And I would expect those Ranger nodes will let Marks work at close to maximum effectiveness on bosses or something similar.
Though thinking more about it it's pretty much a given that they buff them a lot considering they are now limited to one enemy.
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But self casting on enemies for a Melee or arrow build seems hopeless for clearing. U can do it on bosses but if you can invest skill point in something only for bosses it has to be pretty damm good. But can turn out to be a gem u can just use on hard mobs and bosses. Even switch to on certain fights.
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On September 13 2020 00:52 Sapaio wrote:
But self casting on enemies for a Melee or arrow build seems hopeless for clearing. U can do it on bosses but if you can invest skill point in something only for bosses it has to be pretty damm good. But can turn out to be a gem u can just use on hard mobs and bosses. Even switch to on certain fights.
Exactly, just think of Vaal Righteous Fire for spell builds. It's just a question of if they'll make Marks worthwhile or not.
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On September 12 2020 23:13 kramvti wrote:
Poacher's Mark - Integer Life and Mana gain on hit.
Frenzy charge on slain.
Monsters have less evasion.
Flask charge gain.
So the only benfit on bosses is more life gain and they have less evasion.
If you are already at the 3k magic number, then the only benefity we get on bosses is life/mana gain
Assassin's Mark- %Life and Mana gain on kill
Power charge on slain
% increase damage from cirt stirkes
Additional crit strike chance
So only benefit is %increase damage, and additional crit strike chance
Warlord's Mark- % life and mana steal on hit
Endurance charges on slain
Increase stun chance
Reduced stun and block recovery
So lifemana gain, stun chance, reduced stun and block recoviery
So again...I see very little benefit to the changes at all
For % life/mana gain, most attack based builds are going to have other ways to already be at cap for life gain, and rates. Mana gain is a small benefit.
Any mechanics on slain is useless on bosses.
Stun chances, and reduction to recovery in theory is nice, but their thresholds are so high that I still don't see that you will be stunlocking anything.
Flat 1.5% (at level 20) to crit chance is again minimal when most crit based builds are very high chances already through the tree.
What am I not seeing that makes them 'strong' on bosses
We also dont know at all if these will be the post-patch versions of these marks, right? They could change the on kill effects to (maybe different) on hit effects for example. And i still feel ass mark's 20% inc damage taken from crit strikes is pretty damn good.
Like, if you have 500% multi, that alone is worth 80 crit multi against the marked target. the 1.5% flat crit is just a bonus on top.
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Thanks for the replies. Gives me a bit more to think about.
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Uh. Replica Atziris Foible looks pretty bonkers for RF. Like getting a second Elder belt. I could see this one being expensive... especially considering there wont really be like.. t1 life +2 fire gems amulets this league.
Think this league i`ll finally go back to my beloved totems as a starter. Might check crackling lance (probably not great on totems considering it seems to have inbuild self-cast singletarget buffs) or blazing salvo (that one i could imagine being somewhat decent on totems.
If all experiments turn out to be meh, theres always ball lightning (unless further nerfed, which it might be) or glacial cascade, which seems to have gotten a decent enough buff.
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I'm waiting for patch notes. They said they increased icestorm damage and area of effect but reduced the impact frequency and placed a max limit of storms. But I want to know the numbers.
I'm interesting in trying Whispering Ice and stacking INT after 4 years since last time. Maybe it is better now with triggering or self-casting instead of the classical Cast while channeling with Cyclone (And years ago with Scorching Ray).
And with the new visuals and less amount of storms the performance will be better and maybe even you can use now use Spell Cascade support without reaching 5fps xD
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self cast whispering ice is pretty clunky in my experience. maybe with the improvements it is better, but my personal experience is my self cast build getting destroyed by uber elder (rip all my synthesis int gear)
having a lot fewer attacks makes it seem like ES on hit won't be as effective, so the build will have to adapt somehow if you want it to be a great bosser. for mapping it should be alright
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The reblica of Malachai ring seem damm good. Surprised nobody is planning to use it on this forum.
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On September 13 2020 20:53 Espelz wrote:
Uh. Replica Atziris Foible looks pretty bonkers for RF. Like getting a second Elder belt. I could see this one being expensive... especially considering there wont really be like.. t1 life +2 fire gems amulets this league.
Think this league i`ll finally go back to my beloved totems as a starter. Might check crackling lance (probably not great on totems considering it seems to have inbuild self-cast singletarget buffs) or blazing salvo (that one i could imagine being somewhat decent on totems.
If all experiments turn out to be meh, theres always ball lightning (unless further nerfed, which it might be) or glacial cascade, which seems to have gotten a decent enough buff.
Yup, Replica Atziri's Foible is great for sustain, but since the damage change to RF it's just mediocre for damage.
As for Crackling Lance, I'm pretty convinced it'll only be reasonably strong with Intensity, so self cast only. Why? Because they buff Intensity and it has some build in Intensity as well. Also the build showcase for it was pretty misleading. While for the Hexblast showcase they only showed at 4L (i think?), the CL video they had Inpulsa and a 6L with Increased AoE + Intensity gem. Blazing Salvo and maybe even Firestorm (depends on the limit and importance of the duration based Firestorms) should work better with totems.
Depending on the patch nodes, so far my plan is either Hierophant Ball Lightning with Archmage (tanky similar to RaizQT's build he initially planned for the Gauntlet event), Crit based Hexblast selfcast Occultist with CI or a Life based Holy Relic Guardian (basically Minion attack on hit, Holy Relics can deal good damage but it's not awesome for clearing). I definitely want to play something pretty tanky and really hope they don't gut Glancing Blows. I expect changes to Life on block though (including Bone Offering).
On September 13 2020 22:39 Sapaio wrote:
The reblica of Malachai ring seem damm good. Surprised nobody is planning to use it on this forum.
How so? Which 1L skill can make use of it? It seems good for the PoE 2 they showed at Exilecon, but otherwise?
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On September 13 2020 22:39 Sapaio wrote:
The reblica of Malachai ring seem damm good. Surprised nobody is planning to use it on this forum.
Probably its "socketed gems are supported by" - with EE, that is perfectly fine, you can throw like.. a storm brand in, and trigger EE.
But for ailments, including the "newer" ones like brittle & scorched, the effect is based on the hit. the hit from the socketed gem. The unlinked socketed gem. So ... theres not a lot to win here. Its basically a little bit of damage depending on the type of gem in it, that you actually have to self-cast for that small buff, and you get some decent resists and no life otherwise.
Not worth it imho
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On September 13 2020 22:50 HolydaKing wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2020 20:53 Espelz wrote:
Uh. Replica Atziris Foible looks pretty bonkers for RF. Like getting a second Elder belt. I could see this one being expensive... especially considering there wont really be like.. t1 life +2 fire gems amulets this league.
Think this league i`ll finally go back to my beloved totems as a starter. Might check crackling lance (probably not great on totems considering it seems to have inbuild self-cast singletarget buffs) or blazing salvo (that one i could imagine being somewhat decent on totems.
If all experiments turn out to be meh, theres always ball lightning (unless further nerfed, which it might be) or glacial cascade, which seems to have gotten a decent enough buff. Yup, Replica Atziri's Foible is great for sustain, but since the damage change to RF it's just mediocre for damage. As for Crackling Lance, I'm pretty convinced it'll only be reasonably strong with Intensity, so self cast only. Why? Because they buff Intensity and it has some build in Intensity as well. Also the build showcase for it was pretty misleading. While for the Hexblast showcase they only showed at 4L (i think?), the CL video they had Inpulsa, a 6L with Increased AoE + Intensity gem. Blazing Salvo and maybe even Firestorm (depends on the limit and importance of the duration based Firestorms) should work better with totems. Depending on the patch nodes, so far my plan is either Hierophant Ball Lightning with Archmage (tanky similar to RaizQT's build he initially planned for the Gauntlet event), Crit based Hexblast selfcast Occultist with CI or a Life based Holy Relic Guardian (basically Minion attack on hit, Holy Relics can deal good damage but it's not awesome for clearing). I definitely want to play something pretty tanky and really hope they don't gut Glancing Blows. I expect changes to Life on block though (including Bone Offering).
Any reason to go hiero instead of scion /w pathfinder/inquis? The ailment immunity?
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On September 13 2020 23:00 Espelz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2020 22:50 HolydaKing wrote:On September 13 2020 20:53 Espelz wrote:
Uh. Replica Atziris Foible looks pretty bonkers for RF. Like getting a second Elder belt. I could see this one being expensive... especially considering there wont really be like.. t1 life +2 fire gems amulets this league.
Think this league i`ll finally go back to my beloved totems as a starter. Might check crackling lance (probably not great on totems considering it seems to have inbuild self-cast singletarget buffs) or blazing salvo (that one i could imagine being somewhat decent on totems.
If all experiments turn out to be meh, theres always ball lightning (unless further nerfed, which it might be) or glacial cascade, which seems to have gotten a decent enough buff. Yup, Replica Atziri's Foible is great for sustain, but since the damage change to RF it's just mediocre for damage. As for Crackling Lance, I'm pretty convinced it'll only be reasonably strong with Intensity, so self cast only. Why? Because they buff Intensity and it has some build in Intensity as well. Also the build showcase for it was pretty misleading. While for the Hexblast showcase they only showed at 4L (i think?), the CL video they had Inpulsa, a 6L with Increased AoE + Intensity gem. Blazing Salvo and maybe even Firestorm (depends on the limit and importance of the duration based Firestorms) should work better with totems. Depending on the patch nodes, so far my plan is either Hierophant Ball Lightning with Archmage (tanky similar to RaizQT's build he initially planned for the Gauntlet event), Crit based Hexblast selfcast Occultist with CI or a Life based Holy Relic Guardian (basically Minion attack on hit, Holy Relics can deal good damage but it's not awesome for clearing). I definitely want to play something pretty tanky and really hope they don't gut Glancing Blows. I expect changes to Life on block though (including Bone Offering). Any reason to go hiero instead of scion /w pathfinder/inquis? The ailment immunity?
Ailment Immunity is a big one yes. Also easy life leech I think? There are probably more reasons, I've seen Scion versions on Reddit and didn't like them as much. Most of them are not really defensive, they get things like close to max dodge / spell dodge which is nice, but their mana regen just doesn't cut it for having MoM + Agnostic in situations where you take a lot of damage. Especially not because they tend to not use Unleash, which I don't see as a good idea with 2k+ mana cost per cast and multiple mana draining things.
Honestly with Harvest gone ailment immunity would be enough for me.
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On September 13 2020 23:04 HolydaKing wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2020 23:00 Espelz wrote:On September 13 2020 22:50 HolydaKing wrote:On September 13 2020 20:53 Espelz wrote:
Uh. Replica Atziris Foible looks pretty bonkers for RF. Like getting a second Elder belt. I could see this one being expensive... especially considering there wont really be like.. t1 life +2 fire gems amulets this league.
Think this league i`ll finally go back to my beloved totems as a starter. Might check crackling lance (probably not great on totems considering it seems to have inbuild self-cast singletarget buffs) or blazing salvo (that one i could imagine being somewhat decent on totems.
If all experiments turn out to be meh, theres always ball lightning (unless further nerfed, which it might be) or glacial cascade, which seems to have gotten a decent enough buff. Yup, Replica Atziri's Foible is great for sustain, but since the damage change to RF it's just mediocre for damage. As for Crackling Lance, I'm pretty convinced it'll only be reasonably strong with Intensity, so self cast only. Why? Because they buff Intensity and it has some build in Intensity as well. Also the build showcase for it was pretty misleading. While for the Hexblast showcase they only showed at 4L (i think?), the CL video they had Inpulsa, a 6L with Increased AoE + Intensity gem. Blazing Salvo and maybe even Firestorm (depends on the limit and importance of the duration based Firestorms) should work better with totems. Depending on the patch nodes, so far my plan is either Hierophant Ball Lightning with Archmage (tanky similar to RaizQT's build he initially planned for the Gauntlet event), Crit based Hexblast selfcast Occultist with CI or a Life based Holy Relic Guardian (basically Minion attack on hit, Holy Relics can deal good damage but it's not awesome for clearing). I definitely want to play something pretty tanky and really hope they don't gut Glancing Blows. I expect changes to Life on block though (including Bone Offering). Any reason to go hiero instead of scion /w pathfinder/inquis? The ailment immunity? Ailment Immunity is a big one yes. Also easy life leech I think? There are probably more reasons, I've seen Scion versions on Reddit and didn't like them as much. Most of them are not really defensive, they get things like close to max dodge / spell dodge which is nice, but their mana regen just doesn't cut it for having MoM + Agnostic in situations where you take a lot of damage. Especially not because they tend to not use Unleash, which I don't see as a good idea with 2k+ mana cost per cast and multiple mana draining things. Honestly with Harvest gone ailment immunity would be enough for me.
https://pastebin.com/8sLpvBD8 is one i thought looked neat (some rando streamer i found on the tube).
Also, with 4 charges / 3 seconds you basically cant run out of enduring mana flask ever, even on bosses.
Ailment immunity > immunity on consecrated ground only, for sure, but at least scion has that.
Worst thing on start is probably that ascendant takes so long to get online, whereas other ascendancies get juicy helpful stuff from the first lab already.
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On September 14 2020 00:42 Espelz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2020 23:04 HolydaKing wrote:On September 13 2020 23:00 Espelz wrote:On September 13 2020 22:50 HolydaKing wrote:On September 13 2020 20:53 Espelz wrote:
Uh. Replica Atziris Foible looks pretty bonkers for RF. Like getting a second Elder belt. I could see this one being expensive... especially considering there wont really be like.. t1 life +2 fire gems amulets this league.
Think this league i`ll finally go back to my beloved totems as a starter. Might check crackling lance (probably not great on totems considering it seems to have inbuild self-cast singletarget buffs) or blazing salvo (that one i could imagine being somewhat decent on totems.
If all experiments turn out to be meh, theres always ball lightning (unless further nerfed, which it might be) or glacial cascade, which seems to have gotten a decent enough buff. Yup, Replica Atziri's Foible is great for sustain, but since the damage change to RF it's just mediocre for damage. As for Crackling Lance, I'm pretty convinced it'll only be reasonably strong with Intensity, so self cast only. Why? Because they buff Intensity and it has some build in Intensity as well. Also the build showcase for it was pretty misleading. While for the Hexblast showcase they only showed at 4L (i think?), the CL video they had Inpulsa, a 6L with Increased AoE + Intensity gem. Blazing Salvo and maybe even Firestorm (depends on the limit and importance of the duration based Firestorms) should work better with totems. Depending on the patch nodes, so far my plan is either Hierophant Ball Lightning with Archmage (tanky similar to RaizQT's build he initially planned for the Gauntlet event), Crit based Hexblast selfcast Occultist with CI or a Life based Holy Relic Guardian (basically Minion attack on hit, Holy Relics can deal good damage but it's not awesome for clearing). I definitely want to play something pretty tanky and really hope they don't gut Glancing Blows. I expect changes to Life on block though (including Bone Offering). Any reason to go hiero instead of scion /w pathfinder/inquis? The ailment immunity? Ailment Immunity is a big one yes. Also easy life leech I think? There are probably more reasons, I've seen Scion versions on Reddit and didn't like them as much. Most of them are not really defensive, they get things like close to max dodge / spell dodge which is nice, but their mana regen just doesn't cut it for having MoM + Agnostic in situations where you take a lot of damage. Especially not because they tend to not use Unleash, which I don't see as a good idea with 2k+ mana cost per cast and multiple mana draining things. Honestly with Harvest gone ailment immunity would be enough for me. https://pastebin.com/8sLpvBD8 is one i thought looked neat (some rando streamer i found on the tube). Also, with 4 charges / 3 seconds you basically cant run out of enduring mana flask ever, even on bosses. Ailment immunity > immunity on consecrated ground only, for sure, but at least scion has that. Worst thing on start is probably that ascendant takes so long to get online, whereas other ascendancies get juicy helpful stuff from the first lab already.
You can compare that one with mine if you want: https://pastebin.com/07XkrxDv
It's a mix of RaizQT's build (not using Unwavering Stance, Call to Arms) and my own taste. Gear is mostly just from Raiz's Gauntlet char but some things were changed, I didn't put too much thoughts in the gear myself (aside from the cluster jewels and having Life/mana/res/block capped). Possibly could afford using Omeyocan as well if waiting for Unleash seals.
I wouldn't plan on using the body armour of that guy's build for sure, in Harvest sure, but next league? Maybe for 100 Exa. ^^
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EPT
