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Do not turn this into a (insert game here) vs. LoL argument. It's about LoL and Riot's success, which is great for ESPORTS. - Jibba |
[QUOTE]On July 27 2011 22:21 Earll wrote:
[QUOTE]On July 27 2011 03:37 wei2coolman wrote:
As with most video games more complicated than Tic Tac Toe, no human will EVER, EVER. <- Ever. be skillcapped in LoL. Even if people still play LoL competetivly 50 years from now, a person who has spent 10 hours a day practicing hardcore LoL every day for 50 years, will still have room for improvement. Being skillcapped would mean never making a mistake, being able to perfectly calculate everyones HP\how much damage your and their abiltiies do (including damage reductions) and never mistake your potential damage output versus there, never miss a creep, never get into a bad position, list goes on, and it will never be achieved by a human.
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The fact that you think that's a good argument makes you impossible to be taken seriously. Once again no attempt at going in depth to explain why LoL lategame is so unique and skill based.
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On July 27 2011 22:37 NotJack wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 22:21 Earll wrote:On July 27 2011 03:37 wei2coolman wrote:
As with most video games more complicated than Tic Tac Toe, no human will EVER, EVER. <- Ever. be skillcapped in LoL. Even if people still play LoL competetivly 50 years from now, a person who has spent 10 hours a day practicing hardcore LoL every day for 50 years, will still have room for improvement. Being skillcapped would mean never making a mistake, being able to perfectly calculate everyones HP\how much damage your and their abiltiies do (including damage reductions) and never mistake your potential damage output versus there, never miss a creep, never get into a bad position, list goes on, and it will never be achieved by a human.
The fact that you think that's a good argument makes you impossible to be taken seriously. Once again no attempt at going in depth to explain why LoL lategame is so unique and skill based.
Sorry messed up quoting X(
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On July 27 2011 20:43 chroniX wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 20:42 Johnny Business wrote:
I don't see dota 2 competing with a free to play game. Maybe LoL gets less players but it's going to survive trust me.
Also HoN going F2P no way. Theres a huge chance Dota2 will be F2P aswell. Steam has introduced F2P features just recently.
No, the fact that TF2 went F2P is a clear sign that Dota wont. F2P and Pay to Enjoy model will not work with Dota2.
I gave LoL a try after 3 years of DotA and 2 years of HoN and was nothing more than just plainly disappointed.
The UI in game is extremely annoying. The claim auto-matchmaking takes x4 the time to find a game, because people keep leaving/reloading. The game takes minutes to load up. It looks like an extremely blurred out cartoon with lots of flashy effects to cover the lack of good animation. The map is extremely small. The addition of spammable skills for every hero to get last hits on creeps in early stages of the game, defeats the whole purpose of last hitting. The fact that difficulty of last hitting is lowered to the ground, the fact that you cant deny only worsens the early stages of the game when there is nothing else to do.
Its extremely sad that LoL is going further as an eSports purely because of their F2P system, when clearly HoN is a much more balanced, polished and competitive game. Its truly disappointing including the fact that many people still end up paying for the game....
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On July 27 2011 22:38 Am0n3r wrote:
The UI in game is extremely annoying. The claim auto-matchmaking takes x4 the time to find a game, because people keep leaving/reloading. The game takes minutes to load up. It looks like an extremely blurred out cartoon with lots of flashy effects to cover the lack of good animation. The map is extremely small. The addition of spammable skills for every hero to get last hits on creeps in early stages of the game, defeats the whole purpose of last hitting. The fact that difficulty of last hitting is lowered to the ground, the fact that you cant deny only worsens the early stages of the game when there is nothing else to do.
Its extremely sad that LoL is going further as an eSports purely because of their F2P system, when clearly HoN is a much more balanced, polished and competitive game. Its truly disappointing including the fact that many people still end up paying for the game....
When is the last time you played LoL? I have not had matchmaking take longer than maybe 1min in forever. Even those at top elo aren't waiting that long to get into a game anymore.
And claiming every hero has a spam skill to farm minions is retarded. There is a few champs you have skills/passives that allow them farm better than other but a vast majority don't.
And claiming game takes "minutes to load" would completely depend on your pc I am sure. Just testes it on my mid-grade pc and it took a whole 45s to load up and be able to join queue. And if you are referring to game loading after champ select that is up to the other players pc's as well.
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On July 27 2011 22:38 Am0n3r wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 20:43 chroniX wrote:On July 27 2011 20:42 Johnny Business wrote:
I don't see dota 2 competing with a free to play game. Maybe LoL gets less players but it's going to survive trust me.
Also HoN going F2P no way. Theres a huge chance Dota2 will be F2P aswell. Steam has introduced F2P features just recently. Its extremely sad that LoL is going further as an eSports purely because of their F2P system, when clearly HoN is a much more balanced, polished and competitive game. Its truly disappointing including the fact that many people still end up paying for the game....
Are you serious? Have you even played the current HoN patch at 1900+ mmr? S2 fucked up so many things in HoN recently. I've been playing both games since closed beta and I have no idea what s2 was thinking with some design decisions and hero designs.
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Clearly you've never played Vayne if you think everyone has a spam skill lulz. I guess you could count tumble but the CD is only short at max rank really. She's purely single target and does not clear waves as fast as say MF or Caitlyn.
I play both normals and ranked actively for a long time now and for the past few months, at least, queues are 90% around 1 minute or less.
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LoL definitely has it's issues but it's really fun game which goes beyond the limitations of WC3 engine. I've played HoN in the closed beta as well as LoL and I can say that revamped version of DotA with same mechanic and few mixed up spells(from DotA heroes) doesn't qualify for a good game. I played dota since 5.84c and yeah, in my eyes it surpassed hon(a.k.a HoN wasn't an improvement on the genre at all).
LoL on the other hand, with it's cartooney graphics and original champions offered me lot's of fun and rejuvenated my excitement about the genre. Don't get me wrong, there are lot of things i despise about it, but the game offered something which was long in the biz yet completely new and exciting. And those numbers prove that.
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The skill ceiling in LoL is EXTREMELY high.
Mechanical skills? Sure those are easy in LoL. Not worth mentioning.
Team coordination? Maybe even with four random strangers? There goes your skill ceiling.
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LoL is to dota what sc2 is to BW. Physical skill isnt the determining factor, knowing what the best course of action in any given scenario is.
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On July 27 2011 23:39 Two_DoWn wrote:
LoL is to dota what sc2 is to BW. Physical skill isnt the determining factor, knowing what the best course of action in any given scenario is.
Insulting analogy. Once again, explain why team coordination is harder in LoL than HoN or Dota (here's a hint: it isn't)
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Gratz for riot. I played this game during it's beta all the time (kinda sad that all those play time did not carry over when the game is released  ) It's a pretty relaxing game to play if you have time to spare. The problem is I don't really have that much time to spare right now, so I guess I will stick with an action packed SCII (and pray that I won't get matched in a stalemate TvT )
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On July 27 2011 23:42 NotJack wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 23:39 Two_DoWn wrote:
LoL is to dota what sc2 is to BW. Physical skill isnt the determining factor, knowing what the best course of action in any given scenario is. Insulting analogy. Once again, explain why team coordination is harder in LoL than HoN or Dota (here's a hint: it isn't)
Decision making in SC2 isn't any harder than decision making in BW. Now how's that an insulting analogy?
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Insulting doesn't mean wrong, although I'd argue decision making is more important in Dota even though mechanics is more important as well.
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Still people arguing about fucking HoN vs LoL.
Why can't people just stop and say,"Yay! There is a game that is really popular gaining lots of competitive popularity and bringing more people into the mindset of ESPORTS! This is great!"
I play LoL and I am glad to see that it is popular. I don't play HoN and don't have any interest in getting into it, but I am also glad that they are getting featured in NASL's season 2 in some way. Its all good.
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On July 27 2011 23:52 NotJack wrote:
Insulting doesn't mean wrong, although I'd argue decision making is more important in Dota even though mechanics is more important as well.
If you remove mechanical requirements that contribute to victories, then something else must take their place in order to separate the good players from bad.
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On July 27 2011 23:55 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 23:52 NotJack wrote:
Insulting doesn't mean wrong, although I'd argue decision making is more important in Dota even though mechanics is more important as well. If you remove mechanical requirements that contribute to victories, then something else must take their place in order to separate the good players from bad.
Yes the sky is also blue. Even more obvious is the fact that decision making being the sole source of skill is a bad thing. You or any other supporter have still yet to even attempt to explain why decision making is harder in LoL.
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Did I ever say harder? I said more important. If being able to afk farm all day long and becoming a supercarry, or play some mechanically complicated champion better than anyone else isnt responsible for a pro player staying at that level, then only decision making remains.
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downloaded lol because a bunch of my friends were playing it and i must say, it's an extremely fun game. after playing dota and hon extensively, though, i can't ever really take lol seriously as a competitive game. great for messing around and playing with friends though.
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i hate how this game got so popular and games like DOTA and HON are so much more skill worthy
le sigh
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I was so surprised at the viewer count for LoL, but more surprised at how enjoyable it was to watch. Not sure if it's sustainable, but interesting to see these sorts of numbers.
Also, I don't think a thread about LoL, HoN, or DOTA exists in the universe that doesn't devolve into "x game takes more skill than y game."
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EPT
