EPTtotally addicted to this shit haha
League of legends numbers revealed ! - Page 16
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Do not turn this into a (insert game here) vs. LoL argument. It's about LoL and Riot's success, which is great for ESPORTS. - Jibba | ||
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br0fivE
Canada349 Posts
totally addicted to this shit haha | ||
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KissKiss
United Kingdom136 Posts
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Corona`
Canada37 Posts
On July 27 2011 03:25 Azerbaijan wrote: LoL had ~200k viewers during DreamHack while Sc2 had 60k and Sc2 is very much an esport game. At what point does a game become an esport game? For the 100th time LoL's stream was apart of their launcher at Dreamhack. If you look at the number of people they have online at prime-time (which this thread is about) it's easy to comprehend how they got so many "viewers" who either had their launcher idle or were just chilling there between games. SC2 users are knowingly LEAVING a game to logon to a website where the must find a stream than watch an AD and than watch SC2. | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
Please stop spreading that rumor. | ||
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Corona`
Canada37 Posts
On July 27 2011 03:27 Gescom wrote: - there's no tri-laning because basically every team can have a jungler/forester - there are support chars - mana "management" is significantly less important... but it's more fun to be able to do things other than last hit/deny in a lane. It's a major reason why the game is so popular compared to others in the genre. Did you just re-write my points for me for no reason? - there's no tri-laning because basically every team can have a jungler/forester * DUH meaning no MASSIVE support roles where your COMPLETELY gimped on levels from roaming or tri-laning. - there are support chars * i said this? - mana "management" is significantly less important... but it's more fun to be able to do things other than last hit/deny in a lane. It's a major reason why the game is so popular compared to others in the genre. * this is one of the main reasons the game has much less depth and a much smaller learning curve. Spam spells to kill creeps! | ||
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Redlol
United States181 Posts
On July 28 2011 00:22 Corona` wrote: For the 100th time LoL's stream was apart of their launcher at Dreamhack. If you look at the number of people they have online at prime-time (which this thread is about) it's easy to comprehend how they got so many "viewers" who either had their launcher idle or were just chilling there between games. SC2 users are knowingly LEAVING a game to logon to a website where the must find a stream than watch an AD and than watch SC2. The stream wasn't part of the launcher, it contained a link to the stream. You could NOT watch the stream in the launcher. SC2 does a similar thing by adding GSL to their news posts and providing links(not as clearly as Riot did, but it's similar). This whole argument is so common it's annoying, there were actually 200,000 live stream viewers, and while most of them came from the launcher, the ones that didn't click that link didn't watch the stream or get added to the count. | ||
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Microchaton
France342 Posts
The Broodwar/SC2 is actually an excellent comparison for individual gameplay, Broodwar/DotA have a much bigger emphasize on very strong mechanics, and SC2/LoL are much more about general strategies and decisionmaking. (I'm not saying those are absent from Broodwar/DotA, having stronger mechanics is much more important than having a stronger decision-making, strategies and teamplay. DotA is like 5 individuals playing against 5 individuals, while LoL is much more focused on the team as a whole. Oh and on a side note about "death not mattering" : You can't buyback in LoL. If you're dead for 70 seconds, you're dead for 70 seconds. EDIT : To the comment below : I played Aeon Strife on starcraft, then Eul's DotA during RoC for about a year. Stopped playing for a while then played again for around 18 months @Allstar, including several LANs and #dotapickup. Also I said "late game", please read before feeling entitled to trolling while you probably have less experience than me on the topic. | ||
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Am0n3r
United States254 Posts
On July 28 2011 00:51 Microchaton wrote: DotA is like 5 individuals playing against 5 individuals, while LoL is much more focused on the team as a whole. Have you played dota? or you just listened to Basshunter's song? Throughout the whole game teamwork is essential. From first minute/rune gank to the last minute pushes | ||
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Thereisnosaurus
Australia1822 Posts
* this is one of the main reasons the game has much less depth and a much smaller learning curve. Spam spells to kill creeps! ... DOT DOT DOT. Have you actually watched any competitive LoL? because there's like *one* character who can spam spells to kill creeps (karthus) without going OOM and losing their lane horribly within a few minutes. In fact, there are no characters that can waste mana on last hitting until level 8-10 because if you do you render yourself horrifically vulnerable to enemy harassment and ganks. There are several characters who don't use mana as a resource, but these are often even MORE unspammy in the very early game (mord/vlad) because they use health, or their abilities have high cooldowns and are mostly not useful for killing creeps (garen). Players, even top tier players, may use spells on occasion to help them last hit, but rarely more than one spell per wave, if that. Spells are almost always aimed at opposing champions. There are a few characters like annie and karthus who can indeed 'spam' their basic nuke at minions making last hitting easy, but these champions are typically the type who melt if you piss on them. To use annie as an example, very squishy char, has a 5sec cooldown nuke as Q, gives the manacost back if you LH with it, every 5th spell you cast stuns for a second or so. Now, if you just spam your Q to last hit minions, your opponent will simply wait till you Q with a stun on it and then jump on you and beat the shit out of you while it cools down and you can't do shit, in fact, they don't really even have to wait, so long as you don't have your stun stored, you're vulnerable to almost every other char So, despite the fact you have this supposedly awesome last hitting tool, if you are playing anyone competent, you have to use your q 4 times and then never, ever again unless your opponent leaves lane, because it's your only zoning tool. You keep your stun ready and last hit with your AA like everyone else, because if you don't you lose half your health to a combo. Similar mechanics stop spammyness from pretty much every other character at a decent level of play. Sure, noobs spam a lot, but we're talking serious noobs who go OOM with their lane partner and then killtrade while they're oom >.>. That said, ability spamming DOES occur, just not against minions. A lot of characters have abilities that can be used to regularly harass, but opponents learn to never let them use them, or they can be dodged or juked so you eventually just waste your mana. Actual, real ability spam only ever starts happening around level 9-10 when core items start being finished to give people enough mana regen to support it, and by that time the lane phase is over in 60% of games, and ends shortly afterwards in 90%. So quit talking out of your ass or actually support your argument with some examples please and thank you. | ||
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Microchaton
France342 Posts
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Mordiford
4448 Posts
On July 28 2011 00:51 Microchaton wrote: Since when does DotA have any decision making in late game ? There is none. If you argue otherwise, I really don't know what I can say to you. If you win/lose the early/mid the game is basically over. When the game is close, it's decided by someone getting caught / losing a big fight. Losing mid racks is 90% loss, losing 2 racks 95%, 3 racks 99,999%. It snowballs out of control incredibly harder than in LoL, making come-backs much more improbables. Decision making in DotA late game = Baron + end game or just end game ? Stop denying stuff if you don't know what you're talking about, it's really ridiculous. Some good things in HoN/DotA aren't in LoL, some good things in LoL arent in the former. The Broodwar/SC2 is actually an excellent comparison for individual gameplay, Broodwar/DotA have a much bigger emphasize on very strong mechanics, and SC2/LoL are much more about general strategies and decisionmaking. (I'm not saying those are absent from Broodwar/DotA, having stronger mechanics is much more important than having a stronger decision-making, strategies and teamplay. DotA is like 5 individuals playing against 5 individuals, while LoL is much more focused on the team as a whole. Oh and on a side note about "death not mattering" : You can't buyback in LoL. If you're dead for 70 seconds, you're dead for 70 seconds. EDIT : To the comment below : I played Aeon Strife on starcraft, then Eul's DotA during RoC for about a year. Stopped playing for a while then played again for around 18 months @Allstar, including several LANs and #dotapickup. Also I said "late game", please read before feeling entitled to trolling while you probably have less experience than me on the topic. Once again, I heavily heavily heavily disagree, and your aggressiveness in your statements makes it all the more off-putting. Once again, where is there more decision making in League of Legends? You can add one thing I guess, "Dragon" which becomes pretty negligible later in the game. The first 4-5 dragons are a big deal, then from there, doing dragon will just leave you open to having the opposing team do Baron so you only really do it as an easy way to get more ahead. Even then, the ancients, stacking and the jungle mechanics in DotA easily account for this as well. The decision making is equivalent in both games if anything, even in the late-game. What nonsense that LoL is more decision making oriented and strategic... The Broodwar to SC2 comparison doesn't actually work here in my opinion, it's not just 5 individuals vs 5 individuals while LoL is more team oriented. Both games are equally team oriented at the top level of play, it just so happens that in DotA you need individual skill as well and skill differentiation is quite apparent, it has everything LoL does in terms of team oriented depth with much more in regards to individual skill and depth. And before you go off on a new tangent, I've played both games extensively at a relatively high level. | ||
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Senx
Sweden5901 Posts
Lets just acknowledge and congratulate Riot on making such a popular game, no comparison needs to be made by people who are not at the very highest level in both games imo. | ||
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sc14s
United States5052 Posts
off topic: what is with people lumping all games together into one e-sport? its not like you support all sports if you like basketball and if you dont like all the other sports you are hurting sports... wtf is with that logic also who cares about LoL ... next dota will be much more awesome  | ||
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Cedstick
Canada3336 Posts
On July 28 2011 01:16 Senx wrote: Really frustrating to read the HoN vs LoL debate. Its simply HoN players who have little LoL experiences judging LoL and LoL players with little HoN experiences juding HoN. Lets just acknowledge and congratulate Riot on making such a popular game, no comparison needs to be made by people who are not at the very highest level in both games imo. Seriously. I think these guys should get a temp ban for blatantly disregarding the warning that was put on this thread from page one. | ||
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sc14s
United States5052 Posts
On July 28 2011 00:51 Microchaton wrote: Since when does DotA have any decision making in late game ? There is none. If you argue otherwise, I really don't know what I can say to you. If you win/lose the early/mid the game is basically over. When the game is close, it's decided by someone getting caught / losing a big fight. Losing mid racks is 90% loss, losing 2 racks 95%, 3 racks 99,999%. It snowballs out of control incredibly harder than in LoL, making come-backs much more improbables. Decision making in DotA late game = Baron + end game or just end game ? Stop denying stuff if you don't know what you're talking about, it's really ridiculous. Some good things in HoN/DotA aren't in LoL, some good things in LoL arent in the former. The Broodwar/SC2 is actually an excellent comparison for individual gameplay, Broodwar/DotA have a much bigger emphasize on very strong mechanics, and SC2/LoL are much more about general strategies and decisionmaking. (I'm not saying those are absent from Broodwar/DotA, having stronger mechanics is much more important than having a stronger decision-making, strategies and teamplay. DotA is like 5 individuals playing against 5 individuals, while LoL is much more focused on the team as a whole. Oh and on a side note about "death not mattering" : You can't buyback in LoL. If you're dead for 70 seconds, you're dead for 70 seconds. EDIT : To the comment below : I played Aeon Strife on starcraft, then Eul's DotA during RoC for about a year. Stopped playing for a while then played again for around 18 months @Allstar, including several LANs and #dotapickup. Also I said "late game", please read before feeling entitled to trolling while you probably have less experience than me on the topic. you obviously have no idea how good dota is played by how you say there is no late game nor coming back. dota is a team game in the truest sense of the word just as much as LoL please dont bullshit that you are good at all if you actually think what you said. | ||
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Alaron
United States225 Posts
On July 28 2011 01:16 Senx wrote: Really frustrating to read the HoN vs LoL debate. Its simply HoN players who have little LoL experiences judging LoL and LoL players with little HoN experiences juding HoN. Lets just acknowledge and congratulate Riot on making such a popular game, no comparison needs to be made by people who are not at the very highest level in both games imo. Does 250 games qualify me as not knowing a thing about LoL? And to those saying LoL has a more difficult/important mindset on decision making. It is only important because that is ALL there is. Nothing else contributes majorly to that game. I can go 2-20 in the first 20 minutes and it will not impede me at all just give the other team lots of gold. User was warned for this post | ||
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Mordiford
4448 Posts
On July 28 2011 01:25 Alaron wrote: Does 250 games qualify me as not knowing a thing about LoL? And to those saying LoL has a more difficult/important mindset on decision making. It is only important because that is ALL there is. Nothing else contributes majorly to that game. I can go 2-20 in the first 20 minutes and it will not impede me at all just give the other team lots of gold. That's actually a pretty huge hyperbole, deaths matter in both games, it's just easier not to die in LoL and not worth it to make the effort to get a kill. That doesn't mean feeding is irrelevant though. | ||
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Cytokinesis
Canada330 Posts
First of all, the met-game of LoL is absolute pure unadulterated shit. That is my biggest complaint with the game. The top-level players don't practice hard enough and Riot doesn't let the meta simmer. It really is disgusting how fast the meta shifts when there is absolutely no reasoning behind it. This has a LOT to do with the misinformed 'pros'. If this game had real pros it could go somewhere. Right now it feels like WoW--the pros there are aren't very good outside of a few things and lack any specific knowledge about certain things (that they should). The most startling example is pros that don't know the abilities of every champion, to me that is just wrong and stupid. If you play the game for a living you should be able to keep up with patch notes and new champions no problem. Secondly those problems listed above are solved very easily, otherwise I would lose all faith in this game (which I love). We just need better pros, that's all there is to it. I 100% believe if LoL steps up in top level player quality we will see new things (especially tri-lane). it's just the players don't want to try anything new, they just do what works and that's it. Thirdly, yes the skill-cap is lower than HoN and DoTA. I don't know why anyone would argue otherwise. Does this make it bad? No. The skillcap of sc2 is lower than sc1, does it make it bad? No. Fourthly, the amount of customization in LoL adds so much more strategic depth than HoN and DoTA that it allows for a lot of innovation. (Although I dislike the way they implemented acquiring runes, the system itself is very cool). There are different paths for many champions available that changes the meta-game a lot because of the depth it adds to each champion. Fifthly, summoner spells and flash. I am so glad they are changing flash. That was my one largest complaint with the actual balance/gameplay. Flash is too powerful of a spell to allow everyone to have it, it just is. Although I understand allowing everyone to have it (makes for MUCH more aggressive play) it detracts from tense moments which hurt it for spectators. Never when I watch LoL do I have my hand over my mouth going wtf into my palm like I do when I watch sc2, mostly because of flash. The rest of the summoner spells are fantastic and add a lot to champion customization. Lastly I would just like to say that LoL, given more competent top tier players, could become a great eSPORT. However, if Riot and the professional community don't give it more of their time and dedication and innovation I really really really feel like we are in for another WoW-esque eSPORT. IE. popular but quite bad. Which would be a shame because I really like LoL and the innovations they have added to the genre. | ||
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Zdrastochye
Ivory Coast6262 Posts
I'm not sure why people are denying that League takes less skill than DotA/HoN, because mechanically it IS easier to play. Both games are 5v5 and require teamwork to setup ganks and win team fights so I'm not sure why anyone is arguing that either requires more teamwork to win. What LoL DOES have up on the other moba games besides a larger playerbase is the ability to turn around a game that was pretty much already won. HoN and DotA are both over once one champion gets fed enough to 1 shot all 5 players, but even when that happens in LoL, the time it takes for anyone to grab baron/BD the enemy base allows for the game to balance itself out. I'd say endgame LoL is more difficult to call than endgame in other moba games because even when it's horribly imbalanced in one team's favor, the other team can easily win if they get lucky, or wait for the enemy team to get out of position then force a base race. I enjoy moba games through and through, and honestly my commitment to LoL was originally just born out of it being the chosen games my friends started playing, and aside from some things that I'd really like to see changed, I think Riot's deserved as much money/attention as they've received from their game. Good job. | ||
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5-s
United States1674 Posts
On July 28 2011 00:51 Microchaton wrote: Since when does DotA have any decision making in late game ? There is none. If you argue otherwise, I really don't know what I can say to you. If you win/lose the early/mid the game is basically over. When the game is close, it's decided by someone getting caught / losing a big fight. Losing mid racks is 90% loss, losing 2 racks 95%, 3 racks 99,999%. It snowballs out of control incredibly harder than in LoL, making come-backs much more improbables. Decision making in DotA late game = Baron + end game or just end game ? Stop denying stuff if you don't know what you're talking about, it's really ridiculous. Some good things in HoN/DotA aren't in LoL, some good things in LoL arent in the former. The Broodwar/SC2 is actually an excellent comparison for individual gameplay, Broodwar/DotA have a much bigger emphasize on very strong mechanics, and SC2/LoL are much more about general strategies and decisionmaking. (I'm not saying those are absent from Broodwar/DotA, having stronger mechanics is much more important than having a stronger decision-making, strategies and teamplay. DotA is like 5 individuals playing against 5 individuals, while LoL is much more focused on the team as a whole. Oh and on a side note about "death not mattering" : You can't buyback in LoL. If you're dead for 70 seconds, you're dead for 70 seconds. EDIT : To the comment below : I played Aeon Strife on starcraft, then Eul's DotA during RoC for about a year. Stopped playing for a while then played again for around 18 months @Allstar, including several LANs and #dotapickup. Also I said "late game", please read before feeling entitled to trolling while you probably have less experience than me on the topic. This is so incredibly dense, Dota's a far different game then when you played (back then it was mainly about who had more aegis/rapiers, so I kind of understand your view). There's now an incredible amount of decision making in both LoL and Dota in close late game situations. Your argument is the equivalent of a Starcrafter saying there is no late game in Starcraft 2, if you're behind 50 food it's 90% loss, if you're behind 75 food 95%, it's all about the early game decisions, etc.. Just because you get behind in Dota by losing raxes does NOT prove anything about how much decision making there is. The map control and fights are much more intricate in Dota nowadays than before (to be honest, back then most people weren't very good at the genre and a few people who knew how to last hit and gank dominated everything). Your argument boils down to: if you get ahead early, late game is pretty much already decided. Guess what, this is intrinsic to how most strategy games function. Also, your statement about Dota being 5 individuals playing against 5 individuals makes me think you haven't watched a competitive Dota match in years. Anyhow, League of Legends doing well can only mean well for other titles in the Genre. I recently have seen more people coming to Dota from LoL than before, in anticipation of Dota 2. The few players who went from hon/dota over to LoL in the recent past have usually done so for money, and that's cool for them also. | ||
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, actually I'm mad at Dota because it made me miss years of BW) a Dota guy, just played a couple of LoL matches, but people were kinda...hm...very bad, and when I found out about that WoW-like tree of talents and "buying champions" to use it lost all the interest as a competitive game to me. If these about not having a massive support role with no tri-lanes and no mana management are true...I am disappoint.
