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TL Chess Match 4 - Page 64

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Xaerkar
Profile Joined January 2011
United States230 Posts
September 15 2011 09:13 GMT
#1261
Bxc6
+ Show Spoiler +
jdseemoreglass wrote an excellent analysis on possible variants for the upcoming moves thereafter, demonstrating the power of this move and how a more favorable match for white would develop. I also feel that 0-0 can be delayed for a little longer.
qrs
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States3637 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-15 23:41:17
September 15 2011 09:29 GMT
#1262
edited with votes from further along this page, through Babyfactory's

Votes

9. Bxc6+: 15 (itsjustatank, jdseemoreglass, Ikari, mastergriggy, qrs, Shackes, Malli, Malinor, Mash2, indigoawareness, aphorism, Archers_bane, Xaerkar, Chezus, Babyfactory)
9. 0-0: 12 (chesshaha, qrs, Blazinghand, DibujEx, Raysalis, Misder, wizard944, Sm3agol, BaronFel, EnderSword, Bill Murray, EvilNalu, timh)
9. Qa4: 1-2 (dtvu, J_J777?)
9. a3: 2 (Seldentar, keyStorm)
9. exd e.p.: 2 (Cloud9157, LaXerCannon,)
[image loading]
'As per the American Heart Association, the beat of the Bee Gees song "Stayin' Alive" provides an ideal rhythm in terms of beats per minute to use for hands-only CPR. One can also hum Queen's "Another One Bites The Dust".' —Wikipedia
LaXerCannon
Profile Joined October 2008
Canada558 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-15 14:33:13
September 15 2011 14:28 GMT
#1263
exd6
+ Show Spoiler +

... Cxd6 10. d5!
- 10. ... a6 11. Ba4 [this is advantage for white with two pieces attacking a pinned knight]
- 10. ... 0-0 11. dxc6 [material advantage for white with no real compensation]
- 10. ... Qb6 11. Qe2! 0-0 [knight is no longer pinned but falls to the d pawn the move after]

... Nxd6 10. Bxc6+ bxc6 11. Qa4!
- 11. ... Bxd2 12. Bxd2 [white queen still eyes down the weak pawn on c6 plus castling in this position allows maximum space to develop rooks (Qe7+ is met by Be3)]
- 11. ... Rb8 12. 0-0! [white is better developped as black's queen and bishop are still on the home rank and are not accomplishing anything, the pin on the d2 knight is also gone]
Just keep swimming
Malinor
Profile Joined November 2008
Germany4727 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-15 14:43:51
September 15 2011 14:42 GMT
#1264
On September 15 2011 23:28 LaXerCannon wrote:
exd6
+ Show Spoiler +

... Cxd6 10. d5!
- 10. ... a6 11. Ba4 [this is advantage for white with two pieces attacking a pinned knight]
- 10. ... 0-0 11. dxc6 [material advantage for white with no real compensation]
- 10. ... Qb6 11. Qe2! 0-0 [knight is no longer pinned but falls to the d pawn the move after]

... Nxd6 10. Bxc6+ bxc6 11. Qa4!
- 11. ... Bxd2 12. Bxd2 [white queen still eyes down the weak pawn on c6 plus castling in this position allows maximum space to develop rooks (Qe7+ is met by Be3)]
- 11. ... Rb8 12. 0-0! [white is better developped as black's queen and bishop are still on the home rank and are not accomplishing anything, the pin on the d2 knight is also gone]


+ Show Spoiler +
Why would black play 9...cxd6, when he can play 9...Qxd6, which develops the queen and threatens d4 (pinning the knight on f3), plus preventing 10.d5 altogether?
"Withstand. Suffer. Live as you must now live. There will, one day, be answer to this." ||| "A life, Jimmy, you know what that is? It's the shit that happens while you're waiting for moments that never come."
jdseemoreglass
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States3773 Posts
September 15 2011 14:47 GMT
#1265
On September 15 2011 11:12 qrs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 15 2011 06:20 jdseemoreglass wrote:
On September 15 2011 04:59 indigoawareness wrote:
Still thinking.

Can someone tell me why we aren't even talking about the en passant move?


I did a little bit of analysis of en passant, and I didn't like the look of it. Some have said they think we are still good in the position, so it's a difference of opinion right now. You can take a look at the line here...

On September 12 2011 11:46 jdseemoreglass wrote:
Regarding our next moves:

+ Show Spoiler +
...If black plays d5 at some point, I'm not a fan of playing en passant here... It leaves us with an isolated queen's pawn and very little compensation or room for attack in exchange for it. For example, if the game were to continue:

8. Nbd2 O-O 9. O-O d5 10. exd6ep, here black can recapture the pawn with his bishop, by first exchanging knights. 10. ... Nxd2 11. Bxd2 Bxd6, and it's difficult to make progress.

[image loading]...


...
That line's not so relevant here, though, is it? You posted it for 9. ...d5, after both sides had castled. I don't think your line works in this situation because of the threat of + Show Spoiler +
d5, attacking the Knight which is pinned to the King.

lol, that's a good point qrs, I'm gonna have to look at the move again.

+ Show Spoiler +
However, currently I don't see any problem with Qxd6 or Nxd6. Our knight is still pinned here so black's knight isn't immediately threatened, but we can still likely force the doubling of c-pawns. I will look at it again.
"If you want this forum to be full of half-baked philosophy discussions between pompous faggots like yourself forever, stay the course captain vanilla" - FakeSteve[TPR], 2006
timh
Profile Joined December 2010
Netherlands47 Posts
September 15 2011 14:56 GMT
#1266
0-0
Chezus
Profile Joined January 2011
Netherlands427 Posts
September 15 2011 15:34 GMT
#1267
Bxc6
qrs
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States3637 Posts
September 15 2011 16:23 GMT
#1268
On September 15 2011 23:47 jdseemoreglass wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 15 2011 11:12 qrs wrote:
On September 15 2011 06:20 jdseemoreglass wrote:
On September 15 2011 04:59 indigoawareness wrote:
Still thinking.

Can someone tell me why we aren't even talking about the en passant move?


I did a little bit of analysis of en passant, and I didn't like the look of it. Some have said they think we are still good in the position, so it's a difference of opinion right now. You can take a look at the line here...

On September 12 2011 11:46 jdseemoreglass wrote:
Regarding our next moves:

+ Show Spoiler +
...If black plays d5 at some point, I'm not a fan of playing en passant here... It leaves us with an isolated queen's pawn and very little compensation or room for attack in exchange for it. For example, if the game were to continue:

8. Nbd2 O-O 9. O-O d5 10. exd6ep, here black can recapture the pawn with his bishop, by first exchanging knights. 10. ... Nxd2 11. Bxd2 Bxd6, and it's difficult to make progress.

[image loading]...


...
That line's not so relevant here, though, is it? You posted it for 9. ...d5, after both sides had castled. I don't think your line works in this situation because of the threat of + Show Spoiler +
d5, attacking the Knight which is pinned to the King.

lol, that's a good point qrs, I'm gonna have to look at the move again.

+ Show Spoiler +
However, currently I don't see any problem with Qxd6 or Nxd6. Our knight is still pinned here so black's knight isn't immediately threatened, but we can still likely force the doubling of c-pawns. I will look at it again.
Yeah, I agree. In this post I mentioned that + Show Spoiler +
...Qxd6
was the main reason I rejected the move. I don't see a way that we can force + Show Spoiler +
the doubling of c-pawns
after that, and I think that Black has at least equality in that position.
'As per the American Heart Association, the beat of the Bee Gees song "Stayin' Alive" provides an ideal rhythm in terms of beats per minute to use for hands-only CPR. One can also hum Queen's "Another One Bites The Dust".' —Wikipedia
Dr. Von Derful
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States363 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-15 19:34:13
September 15 2011 16:34 GMT
#1269
Bxc6+

x.x with Mr. Prophylactic banned I have to wait to continue my correspondence game with him... or does someone want to pick up where he left off :D?
+ Show Spoiler +

1. e4 d6
2. d4 Nf6
3. Nc3 g6
4. f4 bg7
5. Nf3 0-0
6. Bd3 na6
7. e5 nd7
8. Ne4

He's playing as black.
jdseemoreglass
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States3773 Posts
September 15 2011 23:07 GMT
#1270
On September 16 2011 01:34 Babyfactory wrote:
Bxc6+

x.x with Mr. Prophylactic banned I have to wait to continue my correspondence game with him... or does someone want to pick up where he left off :D?
+ Show Spoiler +

1. e4 d6
2. d4 Nf6
3. Nc3 g6
4. f4 bg7
5. Nf3 0-0
6. Bd3 na6
7. e5 nd7
8. Ne4

He's playing as black.

The pirc defense is actually my favorite opening with black.

I'll say 8. ... c5.
"If you want this forum to be full of half-baked philosophy discussions between pompous faggots like yourself forever, stay the course captain vanilla" - FakeSteve[TPR], 2006
Ng5
Profile Joined December 2009
702 Posts
September 16 2011 06:23 GMT
#1271
qrs you brainmuck me... You post the statistics and I get to that point and am like... zomg our counts do not match again. So I recount everything for 4 pages, and then realize the time of your last edit to your post.

We have an over 50% ratio with one day to go. It's both good and bad I think. In general it hasn't been this long with a big march on the last days, but it's also true that I used to send out reminders after two days, and now I did it yesterday.

We're down to about 60 more or less stable players - hopefully with a mixed approximation of 40 votes each turn. This collides with my expectations prior to the game.

And indeed, this is the first closer one for a long while.

Note that even in the case of vote equality I will close down the voting at deadline and will reach out for other methods to decide. I will disclose the methods should the situation arise. And it will take time from my turn, not add additional hours to yours. So it won't slow down anything in the long run.

Cheers and keep up the great work.

me
noclaninator
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada19 Posts
September 16 2011 08:42 GMT
#1272
9. Bxc6+

+ Show Spoiler +
9. bxc6 10. 0-0 with ideas of Qc2 threatening the fork on c6, a3 then b4 chasing the bishop away, and then Nxe4 winning a pawn. Or black exchanges his attackers giving us a time advantage one or the other really.
My country is the world and my religion is to do good.
wuBu
Profile Joined February 2011
United States83 Posts
September 16 2011 08:59 GMT
#1273
I'm split between the 2 leading choices at the moment. I've been busy recently and haven't had time to look at all the analysis for the two moves. I'm going to go with 9. 0-0 for now because + Show Spoiler +
at first glance at the position I would like to get our king out of this pin so we can develop more freely. Then we can proceed with our plans on the queen side without having to worry about our king being potentially stuck in the center.
"It's the way that I'm living that makes me who I am. It's the things I do that you wouldn't understand."
popzags
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Poland604 Posts
September 16 2011 10:26 GMT
#1274
+ Show Spoiler +
For no apparent reason, 9. e6 first came to my mind. The idea is quite neanderthalic: clear e5 for a Knight with tempo, then play 11. Qa4, pressuring both Nc6 and Bb4. Obviously it's a dubious move, but can you guys tell me how the refuting line goes? ATM, I have no time analyzing.


9.0-0

Don't swap that bishop, please.
What what the the fuck fuck? That blew my mind so much, I doubled every word in the phrase 'What the fuck' to get: 'What what the the fuck fuck my what the the fuck fucking what did the drop dropship medivac where in the what in the hell?' - Day[9]
Dr. Von Derful
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States363 Posts
September 16 2011 16:57 GMT
#1275
On September 16 2011 08:07 jdseemoreglass wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 16 2011 01:34 Babyfactory wrote:
Bxc6+

x.x with Mr. Prophylactic banned I have to wait to continue my correspondence game with him... or does someone want to pick up where he left off :D?
+ Show Spoiler +

1. e4 d6
2. d4 Nf6
3. Nc3 g6
4. f4 bg7
5. Nf3 0-0
6. Bd3 na6
7. e5 nd7
8. Ne4

He's playing as black.

The pirc defense is actually my favorite opening with black.

I'll say 8. ... c5.


It's my least favorite and I've only ever played different variations of the austrian attack against it... so, with that said:

+ Show Spoiler +
9. Bxa6 >.> don't want to confuse people. I was contemplating exd6 but I don't have to time to figure out that move order, but it was my gut feeling to play it.
jdseemoreglass
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States3773 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-16 18:15:33
September 16 2011 18:14 GMT
#1276
On September 17 2011 01:57 Babyfactory wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 16 2011 08:07 jdseemoreglass wrote:
On September 16 2011 01:34 Babyfactory wrote:
Bxc6+

x.x with Mr. Prophylactic banned I have to wait to continue my correspondence game with him... or does someone want to pick up where he left off :D?
+ Show Spoiler +

1. e4 d6
2. d4 Nf6
3. Nc3 g6
4. f4 bg7
5. Nf3 0-0
6. Bd3 na6
7. e5 nd7
8. Ne4

He's playing as black.

The pirc defense is actually my favorite opening with black.

I'll say 8. ... c5.


It's my least favorite and I've only ever played different variations of the austrian attack against it... so, with that said:

+ Show Spoiler +
9. Bxa6 >.> don't want to confuse people. I was contemplating exd6 but I don't have to time to figure out that move order, but it was my gut feeling to play it.


I guess we could just edit these posts in the future, to prevent spamming the thread with an off-topic game? Then people could still follow if they want instead of using PM's.

+ Show Spoiler +

1. e4 d6
2. d4 Nf6
3. Nc3 g6
4. f4 Bg7
5. Nf3 O-O
6. Bd3 Na6
7. e5 Nd7
8. Ne4 c5
9. Bxa6

9. ... bxa6.
"If you want this forum to be full of half-baked philosophy discussions between pompous faggots like yourself forever, stay the course captain vanilla" - FakeSteve[TPR], 2006
RAGEMOAR The Pope
Profile Joined February 2011
United States216 Posts
September 16 2011 22:58 GMT
#1277
BxC6
hype[NZ]
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
Japan412 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-17 03:59:42
September 17 2011 02:40 GMT
#1278
9. Bxc6+

+ Show Spoiler +
Seems like the best move in this position, although I wouldn't mind playing 9. O-O either. Thanks for the people who analysed these lines.


Edit

9.O-O

+ Show Spoiler +
I'm not happy that the main line in jdseemoreglass' analysis involves trading queens, since it basically allows black to trade down to a (probably) drawn endgame with opposite coloured bishops

ie after 9. Bxc6+ bxc6 10. Qa4 Rb8 11. Qxc6+ Qd7 12. Qxd7+ Bxd7 (or even Kxd7) 13. a3 (as shown by jdseemoreglass, but then)
Nxd2 14. Nxd2 (taking with the bishop loses our b pawn) Bxd2+ 15. Kxd2

and blacks position is a lot more active and I think we won't be able to win at all from this position even though we are up a pawn.

If we play 9.O-O then we don't actually have to trade our light square bishop on move 10, which may not be a bad thing since if we end up playing a3 most of our pawns are situated on dark squares anyway.

Perhaps something like:
9. O-O O-O (if black plays something like 9... Bg4 then we can play 10.Qa4 or Qc2 to further pressure the knight on c6 and to remove the pin)
(if 9...Bd7 then we can play 10.Nxe4 dxe4 11.Ng5 and we should win the pawn, or at least something like Nxd4 12. Qxd4 Bxb5 13. Qxb4 Bxf1 14. Kxf1 which could be interesting (edit: probably bad for black)



10. a3 (Nxe4 doesn't really work here I think since after 10...dxe4 11.Ng5 Nxd4 and our bishop is being attacked by the knight) Nxd2 11. Bxd2 (11. Nxd2 fails to 11...Nxd4 attacking our light square bishop) Bxd2 12. Qxd2





I guess the deadline is soon so it's not like I'm going to convince anyone lol
Ng5
Profile Joined December 2009
702 Posts
September 17 2011 04:02 GMT
#1279
Deadline for move nine is over.

Give me a while guys, I will recount everything just to be sure. I think it will still be bishop takes by one or two votes.

If it's the case I will reply very fast and you'll get the next round right away, but I will send a personal PM everyone if that happens.
Ng5
Profile Joined December 2009
702 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-17 04:59:48
September 17 2011 04:49 GMT
#1280
Well it looks like...

9. Bxc6


has won by only two votes. Since that's the case I will just...

9... bxc6


right away as to not let you guys wait for days. I will update the OP now and then I have a few small things to do. After those I will send out a PM warning about it being your turn again to everyone who will not have posted anything by then.

With that.

Deadline for move 10 starts right now.

Edit: Everything's updated. I will just send out the PMs right now I think. Sorry if you reply before the PM hits you, it will be tedious to message everyone one by one.
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