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TL Chess Match 4 - Page 66

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Xaerkar
Profile Joined January 2011
United States230 Posts
September 17 2011 17:41 GMT
#1301
Qa4
+ Show Spoiler +
As others analyzers have pointed it out, this move allows us to gain either a pawn or strong position. Plus these lines give white a strong advantage.
chesshaha
Profile Joined March 2010
United States1117 Posts
September 17 2011 18:07 GMT
#1302

Damn, we lost another one to Charliethe mods.
Show nested quote +
On September 17 2011 21:00 Ng5 wrote:
Guys. Things will get dicey soon. Just saying.


What do you mean by that?


He meant that Bxc6+ was a giant mistake. It's only down from here.

Anyways, I'll follow everyone... I vote for 10. Qa4
"Hopefully you're not the real TLO so it's not casted" - SpecialK
jdseemoreglass
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States3773 Posts
September 17 2011 18:48 GMT
#1303
On September 18 2011 03:07 chesshaha wrote:
Show nested quote +

Damn, we lost another one to Charliethe mods.
On September 17 2011 21:00 Ng5 wrote:
Guys. Things will get dicey soon. Just saying.


What do you mean by that?


He meant that Bxc6+ was a giant mistake. It's only down from here.

Anyways, I'll follow everyone... I vote for 10. Qa4

Wait....

I thought we already lost on move 5? Now I'm really confused.
"If you want this forum to be full of half-baked philosophy discussions between pompous faggots like yourself forever, stay the course captain vanilla" - FakeSteve[TPR], 2006
keyStorm
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada316 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-18 04:25:44
September 17 2011 20:08 GMT
#1304
10.O-O


-edited-

NO!


10.Qa4 <----better
wizard944
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
194 Posts
September 17 2011 21:05 GMT
#1305
10. 0-0
Kassar DeTemplari
lightman
Profile Joined April 2005
United States731 Posts
September 17 2011 21:09 GMT
#1306
Hello,

Am I too late?

I would like to post every now and then a few analysis moves, I played on the past TL Chess matches before.
Chuck Norris owns the greatest Poker Face of all-time. It helped him win the 1983 WSOP holding just a Get out of Jail Free Monopoloy card, and a green #4 card from the game UNO, against an AAA KK flop and his rival folding AK after Chuck raised him ALL-IN
Bengui
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada775 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-17 23:22:44
September 17 2011 23:22 GMT
#1307
0-0
qrs
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States3637 Posts
September 18 2011 00:53 GMT
#1308
10. Qa4

Down the line, by the way, re the strategic point that people have been talking about: + Show Spoiler +
an ending with opposite-colored Bishops: as I mentioned earlier, I favor keeping our Knight on the board, rather than our dark-squared Bishop, to avoid an opposite-colored Bishop endgame.
'As per the American Heart Association, the beat of the Bee Gees song "Stayin' Alive" provides an ideal rhythm in terms of beats per minute to use for hands-only CPR. One can also hum Queen's "Another One Bites The Dust".' —Wikipedia
EnderSword
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada669 Posts
September 18 2011 02:16 GMT
#1309
10. Qa4

I don't think we're gonna have a ton of dissent on this one anyway
Bronze/Silver/Gold level Guides - www.youtube.com/user/EnderSword
Ng5
Profile Joined December 2009
702 Posts
September 18 2011 02:18 GMT
#1310
lightman wrote:
Hello,

Am I too late?

I would like to post every now and then a few analysis moves, I played on the past TL Chess matches before.


Sure go ahead.
Bill Murray
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States9292 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-18 03:46:10
September 18 2011 03:46 GMT
#1311
the "it's going to get dicey soon" is him bluffing + Show Spoiler +
I feel we are over-analyzing lines with which he trades

I fully expect him to retreat his bishop, but at most, that's the only thing he will trade. I am leaning towards either 11. Bxd2 or 11. Nb3
University of Kentucky Basketball #1
jdseemoreglass
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States3773 Posts
September 18 2011 03:54 GMT
#1312
On September 18 2011 12:46 Bill Murray wrote:
the "it's going to get dicey soon" is him bluffing + Show Spoiler +
I feel we are over-analyzing lines with which he trades

I fully expect him to retreat his bishop, but at most, that's the only thing he will trade. I am leaning towards either 11. Bxd2 or 11. Nb3

+ Show Spoiler +
Retreating the bishop would be a clear blunder. We simply capture his knight on e4, then play Qxc6+ followed by Qxe4, and we are up two pawns. Right?
"If you want this forum to be full of half-baked philosophy discussions between pompous faggots like yourself forever, stay the course captain vanilla" - FakeSteve[TPR], 2006
qrs
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States3637 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-02 14:46:06
September 18 2011 05:25 GMT
#1313
Late, but FWIW, the final standings for move 9.

Votes

9. Bxc6+: 17 (itsjustatank, jdseemoreglass, Ikari, mastergriggy, qrs, Shackes, Malli, Malinor, Mash2, indigoawareness, aphorism, Archers_bane, Xaerkar, Chezus, Babyfactory, noclaninator, RAGEMOAR The Pope, hype[NZ])
9. 0-0: 15 (chesshaha, qrs, Blazinghand, DibujEx, Raysalis, Misder, wizard944, Sm3agol, BaronFel, EnderSword, Bill Murray, EvilNalu, timh, wuBu, popzags, hype[NZ])
9. Qa4: 1-2 (dtvu, J_J777?)
9. a3: 2 (Seldentar, keyStorm)
9. exd e.p.: 2 (Cloud9157, LaXerCannon)
[image loading]

And the current standings for move 10:

Votes

10. Qa4: 20 (jdseemoreglass, BillMurray, hp.Shell, shackes, Raysalis, LaXerCannon, aphorism, Malli, Chezus, Mabilis, Malinor, TehForce, Ikari, Soluhwin, Mash2, Xaerkar, chesshaha, keyStorm, qrs, EnderSword)
10. 0-0: 2 (keyStorm, wizard944, Bengui)
[image loading]
'As per the American Heart Association, the beat of the Bee Gees song "Stayin' Alive" provides an ideal rhythm in terms of beats per minute to use for hands-only CPR. One can also hum Queen's "Another One Bites The Dust".' —Wikipedia
Ng5
Profile Joined December 2009
702 Posts
September 18 2011 05:37 GMT
#1314
Please don't edit moves without making a new post about it. It's hard for me to keep track that way.
qrs
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States3637 Posts
September 18 2011 05:40 GMT
#1315
OK, at this point it looks like 10. Qa4 is a shoo-in, so it's time to start talking about the next move. We can't necessarily assume that our opponent won't sacrifice some material to us, but if he does, then our next move or so will be fairly easy to decide on, so let's not worry about that possibility. Instead, here are the lines where Ng5 tries to hold on to everything: + Show Spoiler [lines] +
10...Bxd2+ or 10...Nxd2
In the first of those lines, a lot of people are assuming that our 11th move should be + Show Spoiler [move] +
Nxd2. The reasoning is that this allows us to get rid of Black's strongly positioned Knight on e4.
However, there's an issue with this move that several people have already raised: + Show Spoiler [issue] +
After 11...Nxd2 12. Bxd2, we will be left with a board where the only minor pieces are opposite colored Bishops. Despite our slight edge in pawn structure, this seems like a very drawish game, for a couple of reasons:
  • Since Black can defend his weak c6 pawn with his Bishop, and we have no minor piece that can attack c6, it's hard to see a way for us to capture it.
  • Even if we somehow manage to win a pawn and reduce to an endgame, endgames with opposite-colored Bishops are very often drawn, even if one side is a pawn up.
For this reason, I strongly prefer the alternative 11th move + Show Spoiler [alt. move] +
(10...Bxd2) 11. Bxd2. Even though this leaves Black his Knight on e4, it prevents the game from being reduced to opposite-colored Bishops. With a Knight against his Bishop (or Bishop and Knight vs Bishop and Knight), I feel that we will have a stronger chance of finding a way to convert our pawn structure advantage to a victory.

In my opinion, this decision is definitely worth consideration, and our 11th move should not be taken for granted.
'As per the American Heart Association, the beat of the Bee Gees song "Stayin' Alive" provides an ideal rhythm in terms of beats per minute to use for hands-only CPR. One can also hum Queen's "Another One Bites The Dust".' —Wikipedia
qrs
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States3637 Posts
September 18 2011 05:45 GMT
#1316
BTW, I just noticed that in the last vote, which was decided by only two votes, my switch from 0-0 to Bxc6+ was potentially enough to make the difference in what move we chose. I switched because jdseemoreglass made the case for Bxc6, responded to my objections, and finally convinced me that Bxc6 was slightly better than 0-0.

I mention that to show that posting the reasoning behind your vote is not a waste of time. Even if you only convince one person, that can be enough to make the difference.
'As per the American Heart Association, the beat of the Bee Gees song "Stayin' Alive" provides an ideal rhythm in terms of beats per minute to use for hands-only CPR. One can also hum Queen's "Another One Bites The Dust".' —Wikipedia
hp.Shell
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2527 Posts
September 18 2011 06:52 GMT
#1317
+ Show Spoiler +
I'm against the opposite bishops endgame. For this reason, if 10. Qa4 Bxd2, I prefer 11. Bxd2 over 11. Nxd2. It's also good to keep our positional advantage with our knight on f3 rather than retreat it to d2. If black responds to 10. Qa4 by opting not to move the B on b4 or the c6, and instead ...Nxf2, we simply take with Kxf2. This prevents us from castling but puts us up a minor piece, which is a decent trade considering the board position at that point.

If 10. ...Rb8, we still come out on top with 11. Qxc6+ because it allows us to castle. If 11. Qxc6+ Bd7, 12. Qxd5 and we are significantly ahead. The threat of 10. ...Rb8 is not very important atm. I'm expecting 10. ...Bxd2, because it severely limits our knight on f3 and prevents us from putting pressure on the center (and especially e4).

But 10. ...Nxd2 is kinda threatening because 11. Qxb4 Nxf3 12. gxf3 puts us in a bad spot with both of our castling options. And if 10. ...Nxd2 11. Qxc6+ Bd7 12. Qxd5 is bad because black's a8 rook is not under any pressure. If 10. ...Nxd2 we must take the knight on d2 on turn 12 at the very latest.
Please PM me with any songs you like that you think I haven't heard before!
Archers_bane
Profile Joined February 2011
United States1338 Posts
September 18 2011 07:15 GMT
#1318
Qa4

+ Show Spoiler +
attacking while promoting trades to get the pressure off our king
Starcraft's BW glory days have passed, RIP Jaedong's dominance - 2013...EDIT 2017: WE BACK BOYS
Bill Murray
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States9292 Posts
September 18 2011 08:03 GMT
#1319
if we get 9 more votes we have majority
University of Kentucky Basketball #1
qrs
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States3637 Posts
September 18 2011 08:03 GMT
#1320
On September 18 2011 15:52 hp.Shell wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
But 10. ...Nxd2 is kinda threatening because 11. Qxb4 Nxf3 12. gxf3 puts us in a bad spot with both of our castling options. And if 10. ...Nxd2 11. Qxc6+ Bd7 12. Qxd5 is bad because black's a8 rook is not under any pressure. If 10. ...Nxd2 we must take the knight on d2 on turn 12 at the very latest.
I don't see how you can consider the move in question any more threatening than + Show Spoiler +
10...Bxd2
We simply play + Show Spoiler +
11. Bxd2, forcing 11... BxB+ (unless Black wants to drop two pawns, or his Bishop) 12. QxB or NxB. Black can force the same position in the 10...Bxd2 line (unless we want to give up a piece for two pawns) by playing 11...Nxd2, so if 10...Nxd2 is threatening, 10...Bxd2 must be just as threatening. (I don't think either one is threatening.)
'As per the American Heart Association, the beat of the Bee Gees song "Stayin' Alive" provides an ideal rhythm in terms of beats per minute to use for hands-only CPR. One can also hum Queen's "Another One Bites The Dust".' —Wikipedia
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