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Qe2
+ Show Spoiler [rationale] +At least in correspondence games, I'm very materialistic. I figure that if we can't find a winning plan, the chances are that our opponent can find a winning defense, and vice versa.
7. 0-0 sacrifices a pawn to Black and 7. cxd4 leaves the material even. I haven't looked much at 7. Qe2, but in the lines that have been given at least, Black is the one who sacrifices a pawn to us. I like winning pawns, so I'm voting for Qe2.
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+ Show Spoiler +In my database i found 9 games with 7. cxd4 and 21 with 7. 0-0.
Qe2 was never played.
FYI:
7. cxd4 was usually followed by 7... Bb4+ 8. Nbd2 0-0 9. 0-0 (e.g. Short - Kamsky '94)
7. 0-0 was usually followed by 7.... d5 8. exd6 OR Nxd4
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Votes
7. cxd4: 16 (jdseemoreglass, itsjustatank, ikari, Soluhwin, sleepingdog, Malinor, WarChimp, shackes, Chezus, Shootist, Sc1pio, durza, Archers_bane, BaronFel, Xaerkar, Malli, DibujEx)
7. Qe2: 6 (LaXerCannon, MrProphylactic, indigoawareness, Babyfactory, noclaninator, qrs)
7. 0-0: 4 (Raysalis, chesshaha, jdseemoreglass, wuBu)
7. Nbd2: 1 (amazingxkcd)
7. Bxc6: 1 (mastergriggy)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/PeB2C.png)
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On September 05 2011 09:29 Malli wrote:+ Show Spoiler +In my database i found 9 games with 7. cxd4 and 21 with 7. 0-0.
Qe2 was never played.
FYI:
7. cxd4 was usually followed by 7... Bb4+ 8. Nbd2 0-0 9. 0-0 (e.g. Short - Kamsky '94)
7. 0-0 was usually followed by 7.... d5 8. exd6 OR Nxd4
+ Show Spoiler +
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On September 05 2011 11:16 jdseemoreglass wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2011 09:29 Malli wrote:+ Show Spoiler +In my database i found 9 games with 7. cxd4 and 21 with 7. 0-0.
Qe2 was never played.
FYI:
7. cxd4 was usually followed by 7... Bb4+ 8. Nbd2 0-0 9. 0-0 (e.g. Short - Kamsky '94)
7. 0-0 was usually followed by 7.... d5 8. exd6 OR Nxd4 + Show Spoiler +
[spoiler] Do not know what databases you are searching, but you should try chess base if you have it ( I wouild but I am not at my house this week so I am not on my personal computer and do not have access to my chess base account ( need to get a labtop just for this fact ). One Singapore Master I happen to know , Chan Wei Xuan has had some success with it . The game I am most familiar with was against Master Khandewal in 2007 Singapore in which white wins I believe( back when he was just a Master like me , he is a 2400 IM level now and still growing ) , he favors Qe2 as an improvement in this line last we time we talked about it (quite often masters will find old outdated openings like this , and make small improvements to suprise poeple , since all the games you are providing are like pre-1970 it is not shocking you are not finding this move( It is a fairly new Idea if I recall . But your database must be limited all those games you provided are 40 years old .Not many gms I know of even currently play this opening choice of an early d4 that lead to these positions for white , accept maybe a few , Adams being the most notable having a game in the last year or so if I remember correctly . Unless you actually have chessbase all the games for this opening are going to be outdated I wager , as it is not currently in fashion for white on a Gm LEVEL and it seems most of the games 50 years ago seem to favor those two moves , That doesn't mean improvements have not been found .I seriously question limited databases, a database of 22 mere games 50 years old or more is hardly convincing on a theory level .But then Again I happen to personally know masters that have used this move here. anyway I am over it . But if Qe2 is a less-known Idea maybe NG5 is not as up to date on the theory in this line . If you had chessbase10 Qe2 would be in it numerous times , I know this for a fact .You must be searching chessgames.com or chesslab or something like that
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7. cxd4. I don't like 0-0 or Qe2 is the time for move 7 because of that d-pawn. Black could do some discovered attack with the bishop if we don't get rid of the pawn right now.
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I want to explore this position a little before I decide
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On September 05 2011 12:02 imBLIND wrote:
7. cxd4. I don't like 0-0 or Qe2 is the time for move 7 because of that d-pawn. Black could do some discovered attack with the bishop if we don't get rid of the pawn right now. Like what?
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I don't like castling so far. I can't find a way where we DON'T go down a pawn.
7. cxd4 for now
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On September 05 2011 12:12 qrs wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2011 12:02 imBLIND wrote:
7. cxd4. I don't like 0-0 or Qe2 is the time for move 7 because of that d-pawn. Black could do some discovered attack with the bishop if we don't get rid of the pawn right now. Like what?
nxf2
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well, if we plan on castling without Qe2
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actually, and sorry to spam, I'm going to vote for Qe2
it really is our best chance to end up on material in comparison to cxd4, believe it or not. He will, at the best, have to waste another move on his knight.
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On September 05 2011 12:22 Bill Murray wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2011 12:12 qrs wrote:On September 05 2011 12:02 imBLIND wrote:
7. cxd4. I don't like 0-0 or Qe2 is the time for move 7 because of that d-pawn. Black could do some discovered attack with the bishop if we don't get rid of the pawn right now. Like what? nxf2 + Show Spoiler +Now Black is down a Knight. What next?
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+ Show Spoiler +Why cxd4 is bad: after 7. cxd4 0-0 we cannot play the material winning move Qe2 anymore because after 8. Qe2 d5 9. exd6 black can safely recapture the pawn with Nxd6 and we play cxd4 leaving us even in material. Qe2 on the other hand leads to the land of happiness after 7. Qe2 d5 8. exd6 when the knight is pinned and hanging and we have a nuisance pawn on d6 that is going to cause some more damage. Play might continue Bf5 9. Nd2 where black really really wants to play Qe7 to break the pin but trollpawn is there to put a stop to that. 7. Qe2 will lead to a more open attacker's game while cxd4 simplifies the position significantly (and doesn't take advantage of the mass brainpower we have). I could go on but no one would read my full post.
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7. 0-0
+ Show Spoiler +It seems you guys don't know this - Chessbase has a large searchable onling database...go to www.chesslive.de. You may have to install Microsoft Silverlight if you don't already have it. 279 games with 6...Ne4 and 7.0-0 is by far the most popular response. My own look at the lines has convinced me that either of the three most popular lines (7.0-0, 7.cxd4, 7.Qe2) is playable, but I prefer the looks of the 0-0 lines a little more.
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On September 05 2011 11:58 MrProphylactic wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2011 11:16 jdseemoreglass wrote:On September 05 2011 09:29 Malli wrote:+ Show Spoiler +In my database i found 9 games with 7. cxd4 and 21 with 7. 0-0.
Qe2 was never played.
FYI:
7. cxd4 was usually followed by 7... Bb4+ 8. Nbd2 0-0 9. 0-0 (e.g. Short - Kamsky '94)
7. 0-0 was usually followed by 7.... d5 8. exd6 OR Nxd4 + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + Do not know what databases you are searching, but you should try chess base if you have it ( I wouild but I am not at my house this week so I am not on my personal computer and do not have access to my chess base account ( need to get a labtop just for this fact ). One Singapore Master I happen to know , Chan Wei Xuan has had some success with it . The game I am most familiar with was against Master Khandewal in 2007 Singapore in which white wins I believe( back when he was just a Master like me , he is a 2400 IM level now and still growing ) , he favors Qe2 as an improvement in this line last we time we talked about it (quite often masters will find old outdated openings like this , and make small improvements to suprise poeple , since all the games you are providing are like pre-1970 it is not shocking you are not finding this move( It is a fairly new Idea if I recall . But your database must be limited all those games you provided are 40 years old .Not many gms I know of even currently play this opening choice of an early d4 that lead to these positions for white , accept maybe a few , Adams being the most notable having a game in the last year or so if I remember correctly . Unless you actually have chessbase all the games for this opening are going to be outdated I wager , as it is not currently in fashion for white on a Gm LEVEL and it seems most of the games 50 years ago seem to favor those two moves , That doesn't mean improvements have not been found .I seriously question limited databases, a database of 22 mere games 50 years old or more is hardly convincing on a theory level .But then Again I happen to personally know masters that have used this move here. anyway I am over it . But if Qe2 is a less-known Idea maybe NG5 is not as up to date on the theory in this line . If you had chessbase10 Qe2 would be in it numerous times , I know this for a fact .You must be searching chessgames.com or chesslab or something like that
well I looked up chessbase, and saw it was $141.55, so I guess that's out of the question now lol....
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On September 04 2011 21:53 MrProphylactic wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2011 19:37 WarChimp wrote:
I feel kinda bad now that I am voting what everyone else is. But I came into this thread to say 7. cxd4
Let's get on with this! Why would you feel bad if you think it is the best move . or are you saying you voted it just because everyone else did ? I would suggest if you are not going to take the time to look at the position and acutally think , and read the analysis people are providing to come up with an intellectually based vote, then do not vote at all . voting out of pure democratic-influence is quite silly imo, if that is in fact what you mean; also there is no hurry until the deadline(which is what btw ?)
That's not what I was saying at all. I merely meant, I believe that cxd3 is the best move in my opinion I just felt kind of bad because it seems like my vote was only cxd3 because other people have voted it. That's why I felt bad, looks can be quite deceiving. Other's peoples opinion on cxd3 had not altered my mind to vote for that move. My original post seems quite confusing, sorry for that.
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Your posts are hard to read MrProphylactic.
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EPT
