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On July 05 2011 03:52 Torte de Lini wrote:
I thought shotgun was for those who can't aim and the flaregun for the opposite.
I also hate the detonator. The mini-crit bonus if you hit someone already on fire is fine, but the flaregun jump is so pointless on most maps. Too situational when you can get full criticals with the normal flare.
If you're blowing up snipers with the flaregun, they're just bad snipers.
Shotgun-Degreaser-Axestinguisher is the best setup, I have switched to the Homewrecker when the other team is attacking, has more than 3 Spies and I am the only Pyro.
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I honestly thing the Shotgun is negligible. The mid to short-range of it is purposeless considering your speed and your first weapon handles both of those issues.
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On July 05 2011 06:06 Torte de Lini wrote:
I honestly thing the Shotgun is negligible. The mid to short-range of it is purposeless considering your speed and your first weapon handles both of those issues.
It's your only hope against a Scout/Pyro/Shield-Demos. You will kill a Scout before they kill you if you can aim, Demo-shields just literally die to you without any effort, Pyro-Pyro fights are just whoever has better aim.
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Demoman with sticky bombs. <3
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Demoshields = Flaregun or flamethrower + Axtinguisher. He's not running sticky bombs and rolling bombs are easily deflectable or to be dodged.
As for scout, he shouldn't be getting close to you at all unless he has amazing maneuverability. At mid to long-range the flaregun is still feasible against scount (and they'll back off after the first shot too).
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On July 05 2011 06:16 Torte de Lini wrote:
Demoshields = Flaregun or flamethrower + Axtinguisher. He's not running sticky bombs and rolling bombs are easily deflectable or to be dodged.
As for scout, he shouldn't be getting close to you at all unless he has amazing maneuverability. At mid to long-range the flaregun is still feasible against scount (and they'll back off after the first shot too).
If you're hitting Scouts with Flaregun, you're playing against some really bad Scouts, I'll be happy to run around Pyros with a Flaregun and just take minimal damage from the Flamethrower. Close-ranged Demos can nail you and beat you with the Launcher, you do next to no damage to them outside of the Axestinguisher.
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I don't know if they're bad, over my years of playing. I've played a wide array of scouts, so maybe they're bad or maybe I'm engaging at correct points of the map.
If you can't reflect or keep your distance from a demo, you're going to be in a lot of trouble. No demo should be engaging you at close range (why should they when the range of their rolling bombs is so good). They should be taking advantage of corners, really tight areas and shooting from a relative distance.
If he goes shield, just light him, let him charge away or towards you and just axtinguish him. You're the direct counter to the demoman o_o
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On July 05 2011 06:39 Torte de Lini wrote:
I don't know if they're bad, over my years of playing. I've played a wide array of scouts, so maybe they're bad or maybe I'm engaging at correct points of the map.
If you can't reflect or keep your distance from a demo, you're going to be in a lot of trouble. No demo should be engaging you at close range (why should they when the range of their rolling bombs is so good). They should be taking advantage of corners, really tight areas and shooting from a relative distance.
If he goes shield, just light him, let him charge away or towards you and just axtinguish him. You're the direct counter to the demoman o_o
You are not the direct counter to demoman simply because the demo's stickies fire at a quicker rate than you can airblast and he can actually trade with your flamethrower at melee range. The direct counter to Demo is literally the Scout.
Demos can take advantage of the same tactics that you would use as a Pyro, except they have more HP, they're not going to be relying on the Launcher till much later in the progression of a fight. Like they want to be close if they're using the Targe, if they're not, then they're just playing it wrong.
They're bad Scouts, no reason why a Pyro should beat a Scout in reasonable situations.
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I think you're just being stubborn. You are the direct to demo. Demo is the counter to scout considering their maneuverability and speed is negated by the AOE damage, range and health of the demoman.You would also Heavy denies scouts of their heavy damage, Health and effectiveness at equal close range.
The pyro is the direct counter to the demoman because of the airblasts (And if you want, you can run shotgun which destroys stickies as well). I think the bad demos are the ones that use one sticky at a time in a form of an offensive measure than a defensive restraining measure.
Sure, bad scouts.
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its fun to play but it takes so long to load the game and even more to connect to a server.....
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Nice to see so much pyro love, most people hate them.
I roll with:
Degreaser- Fast weapon switch is worth so much more than a slight increase in afterburn damage
Flaregun - Ill take shotgun if they have a lot of pyros, i think the 2 options are fairly similar in quality in all but 1 area: Fun. The flaregun is so much more fun, hitting those long distance crits on burning medic, puff and flare instead of puff and sting, trolling snipers, lighting spies long distance. I also think its good for killing classes that would slip away if you miss/have no ammo for airblast to axe them.
Axetinquisher - Pretty much a straight upgrade to the fireaxe. Except on sudden death melee, then its awkward.
Love pyro, its my favourite class, high skill ceiling, need to use all 3 weapons you carry at a moments notice to maximise your potential, hitting the skill based (not random) crits is rewarding. Also airblast. If youve never got a reflected burning huntsman arrow headshot, youve never REALLY played TF2!
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On July 05 2011 06:57 Torte de Lini wrote:
I think you're just being stubborn. You are the direct to demo. Demo is the counter to scout considering their maneuverability and speed is negated by the AOE damage, range and health of the demoman.You would also Heavy denies scouts of their heavy damage, Health and effectiveness at equal close range.
This is kinda incoherent so I'm not sure if you seriously mean demos counter scouts... scout CRUSHES demo with reasonably even positioning, if the scout loses it's because he screwed up.
As far as pyro vs demo goes at close range it depends on whether you airblast the first pipe or not - that's partially guesswork and partially ping, airblasts are not lag compensated. If you don't airblast the pipe he'll just stick a really easy airshot and you die, nothing you can do about it.
The pyro is the direct counter to the demoman because of the airblasts (And if you want, you can run shotgun which destroys stickies as well). I think the bad demos are the ones that use one sticky at a time in a form of an offensive measure than a defensive restraining measure.
I just... what? Are you just messing with judicator's head or something?
Sure, bad scouts.
Pyro has a horrible horrible matchup vs scouts, if you are beating scouts with pyro that is 100% because the scouts are awful, or you caught them in a tiny space... probably both. Even if you have good positioning on a scout if he plays well he can usually trade with you.
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On July 05 2011 06:57 Torte de Lini wrote:
I think you're just being stubborn. You are the direct to demo. Demo is the counter to scout considering their maneuverability and speed is negated by the AOE damage, range and health of the demoman.You would also Heavy denies scouts of their heavy damage, Health and effectiveness at equal close range.
The pyro is the direct counter to the demoman because of the airblasts (And if you want, you can run shotgun which destroys stickies as well). I think the bad demos are the ones that use one sticky at a time in a form of an offensive measure than a defensive restraining measure.
Sure, bad scouts.
Not even close. Universal already covered what I was going to say.
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Ahahaha, bad demoman use their stickies offensively. That might be the most absolutely wrong statement I've ever seen about TF2. Stickies are and always have been the best offensive weapon in the game.
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Rolling bombs are the offensive, sticky bombs are the defensive. If you're lobbing one (sticky) bomb (offensively) at a time to a pyro, you're not really going to win. This is what I mean by offensive, if you lop them one at a time and exploding them mid-air at a pyro that's terrible and bad and completely tries to substitute the point of rolling bombs.
Sticky bombs can be used with an offensive intent, but their nature is defensive. Meaning you can shoot stickies at someone instead of preemptively at a certain location and that would be the offensive intent, but the defensive nature of the stickies is that they can stick on walls or floors and repulse upward or back the opponent (which you can follow-up easily with any of your more offensive tools) a.k.a AOE damage.
Don't you wonder why the sticky bomb launcher is replaced by the shield if desired?
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Torte, you don't have even the basic understanding of the class matchups a pubstar does, there's not really much to say except that your understanding of how the game works is completely contrary to how it actually does if a modicum of skill is involved.
I have played the game competitively on a decent team, I have played in pubs, I have never seen such silly opinions.
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Enlighten me then, otherwise you're discrediting purely to win than to educate.
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Ok, take what other people said, they are correct, you are wrong. How much more enlightenment do you expect me to bring you? If the game is seriously playing out in the way you're describing it's because your opponents are absolutely retarded, anyone with skill would crush the tactics you've described.
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Nice edit. No contradiction or what?
Tell me why I am wrong in my follow-up of arguments. You're just repeating your stance which doesn't help.
Rolling bombs are the offensive, sticky bombs are the defensive. If you're lobbing one (sticky) bomb (offensively) at a time to a pyro, you're not really going to win. This is what I mean by offensive, if you lop them one at a time and exploding them mid-air at a pyro that's terrible and bad and completely tries to substitute the point of rolling bombs.
Sticky bombs can be used with an offensive intent, but their nature is defensive. Meaning you can shoot stickies at someone instead of preemptively at a certain location and that would be the offensive intent, but the defensive nature of the stickies is that they can stick on walls or floors and repulse upward or back the opponent (which you can follow-up easily with any of your more offensive tools) a.k.a AOE damage.
Don't you wonder why the sticky bomb launcher is replaced by the shield if desired?
Here you go.
I'll agree I'm wrong when I understand your point of view. For now I see mine as still plausible and equally or possibly correct without the need to cite my experience competitively or publicly or to bash other players.
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On July 05 2011 07:26 Blacktion wrote:
Nice to see so much pyro love, most people hate them.
I roll with:
Degreaser- Fast weapon switch is worth so much more than a slight increase in afterburn damage
Flaregun - Ill take shotgun if they have a lot of pyros, i think the 2 options are fairly similar in quality in all but 1 area: Fun. The flaregun is so much more fun, hitting those long distance crits on burning medic, puff and flare instead of puff and sting, trolling snipers, lighting spies long distance. I also think its good for killing classes that would slip away if you miss/have no ammo for airblast to axe them.
Axetinquisher - Pretty much a straight upgrade to the fireaxe. Except on sudden death melee, then its awkward.
Love pyro, its my favourite class, high skill ceiling, need to use all 3 weapons you carry at a moments notice to maximise your potential, hitting the skill based (not random) crits is rewarding. Also airblast. If youve never got a reflected burning huntsman arrow headshot, youve never REALLY played TF2!
Wait, are you trying to say that puff and sting is hard when you're using the weapon designed to make it even easier than it already is with the vanilla flamethrower?
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EPT
