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On July 05 2011 12:01 h3r1n6 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 11:20 Judicator wrote:You mean when the Scout makes it stupidly obvious where he's going to land and uses up his options too quickly, the Demo wins, otherwise you are just guessing  Going to land? It can be quite easy to hit a double jumping scout. Plus, after scout wasted the double jump, the first pipe hitting can bounce him up, which makes the second pipe an easy hit. Or the pipe can hit his head and the scout slams into the ground, dying from fall damage It also depends highly on the terrain. The wider the area and the more obstacles in it, the better the scout is off. If the scout can get close, the demoman is dead. 1 Meatshot+self damage from one pipe can kill a demoman, although that is not likely. The second scattergun shot will kill the demo though.
Yes, either when he hits the ground or where he is in the air. Good point on the terrain.
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I really enjoy the Degreaser+Flaregun+Axtinguiser Combo, even though I have problems using airblast constructively, actually I can't do shit with the airblast.
Reading the last few pages of the thread I don't know if it's worth it learning Pyro further, if, even though I'm only playing pub, it has no real use as a dmg-dealer (spy check being the only real use).
As i was advised I'm gonna focus on an other damagedealer like demo or soldier for the case that they are no spies in the othe team or I decide to play non-pub.
First of all my demoman is atrocious, compared to the other classes, so I'm gonna focus on my Pyro and Soldier for the next few weeks.
I guess you need to know many classes to be competent, but how do you approached the classes when you played the first time? Played everything? Play one class only?
I have 15 hours on Pyro and 10 hours on Sniper and the rest is like 30 minutes - 1:30 hours
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On July 05 2011 20:11 FinnGamer wrote:I guess you need to know many classes to be competent, but how do you approached the classes when you played the first time? Played everything? Play one class only?
I have 15 hours on Pyro and 10 hours on Sniper and the rest is like 30 minutes - 1:30 hours
Pubs are for fun mostly. Pyro can do well in pubs, if you airblast a lot of the spam back into the groups, sneak around and set groups of people on fire and axtinguish whom you can.
To learn the fastest, play what is fun
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On July 05 2011 20:11 FinnGamer wrote:
I really enjoy the Degreaser+Flaregun+Axtinguiser Combo, even though I have problems using airblast constructively, actually I can't do shit with the airblast.
Reading the last few pages of the thread I don't know if it's worth it learning Pyro further, if, even though I'm only playing pub, it has no real use as a dmg-dealer (spy check being the only real use).
As i was advised I'm gonna focus on an other damagedealer like demo or soldier for the case that they are no spies in the othe team or I decide to play non-pub.
First of all my demoman is atrocious, compared to the other classes, so I'm gonna focus on my Pyro and Soldier for the next few weeks.
I guess you need to know many classes to be competent, but how do you approached the classes when you played the first time? Played everything? Play one class only?
I have 15 hours on Pyro and 10 hours on Sniper and the rest is like 30 minutes - 1:30 hours
It's really up to you how many classes you want to play. Some people like to play everything, others focus mainly on a couple of classes. Personally, I've always used all the classes because I like the variety. All I will say is show a little consideration for other players and don't pick a class if there are three people on your team playing it already.
As for pyro, it's perfectly fine for pub play. It just doesn't work as well in competitive play for a few reasons. One, the teams are smaller, which works against the pyro because it gives players more room and the pyro is a close-quarters class. Two, the pyro favours ambushes, which are much harder against a small, well-organised team. Finally, the pyro isn't all that mobile. It's no coincidence that the standard 6v6 team make-up is also the fastest moving set of classes that the rules allow you to select.
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Micro transactions give access to rare items This game is extremely balanced, and really nothing is OP.
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No pyro in competitive play? That sounds like heaven for my spying. And stabbing. In your back because no pyro is setting me on fire all the god darned time.
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On July 05 2011 23:23 Tobberoth wrote:
No pyro in competitive play? That sounds like heaven for my spying. And stabbing. In your back because no pyro is setting me on fire all the god darned time.
Spying in competitive play is infinitely harder than playing on a pub with pyros.
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On July 05 2011 23:23 Tobberoth wrote:
No pyro in competitive play? That sounds like heaven for my spying. And stabbing. In your back because no pyro is setting me on fire all the god darned time.
If you have trouble avoiding pyros there's not a chance in hell you'd be landing any stabs in a competitive match. Against a team of six who are all on teamspeak together and make a point of knowing where the rest of their team are at all times, you have very little chance of going unnoticed.
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On July 05 2011 08:46 Torte de Lini wrote:
Rolling bombs are the offensive, sticky bombs are the defensive. If you're lobbing one (sticky) bomb (offensively) at a time to a pyro, you're not really going to win. This is what I mean by offensive, if you lop them one at a time and exploding them mid-air at a pyro that's terrible and bad and completely tries to substitute the point of rolling bombs.
Sticky bombs can be used with an offensive intent, but their nature is defensive. Meaning you can shoot stickies at someone instead of preemptively at a certain location and that would be the offensive intent, but the defensive nature of the stickies is that they can stick on walls or floors and repulse upward or back the opponent (which you can follow-up easily with any of your more offensive tools) a.k.a AOE damage.
Don't you wonder why the sticky bomb launcher is replaced by the shield if desired?
You keep talking about "intent," but intent of weapon design has no bearing on it in practical use. Stickies are the best damage weapon with good range and can be detonated mid air, unlike any other weapon. The fact that the shield replaces it is because if the shield replaced the pipe launcher demo would be so abhorrently overpowered it wouldn't be funny. Have you ever seen a competitive demo play a serious match? I absolutely, 100% guarantee you they are using stickies offensively. For instance, when you uber a demoman, what weapon do you want him using? Why the weapon with the best chance at hitting the enemy (mid air detonations), have the most damage output (8 shots instead of 4, faster reloading, only slightly less damage per shot), and can even be used to increase mobility!
Stickies are the BEST offensive weapon in the game because they have no falloff, excellent accuracy through midair detonation, excellent damage, both for one or multiple targets, and can be used to juggle opponent's effortlessly. You're absolutely silly if you think a weapon with half the damage output that needs unreasonable levels of accuracy in the pipelauncher is better offensively than stickies.
and they're a very good counter to pyros at everything but close range, and it's a bad or unaware demo that let's a pyro get close to him considering their lack of mobility. At midrange, the demo's preferred range, he absolutely ruins pyros with stickies.
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On July 05 2011 23:27 Stoids wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2011 23:23 Tobberoth wrote:
No pyro in competitive play? That sounds like heaven for my spying. And stabbing. In your back because no pyro is setting me on fire all the god darned time. Spying in competitive play is infinitely harder than playing on a pub with pyros.
Lol, i can imagine this now. There's only six players, both teams are completely hooked up via some form of voice chat.
"Hey buddy, I know there's a spy on the other team, but is that you standing right in front of me?"
"No, i'm on the other side of the map."
"Are you sure? I see you right here."
"Good point.... I don't know... See if he stabs you or not."
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stickies do have falloff actually
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On July 05 2011 20:11 FinnGamer wrote:
I really enjoy the Degreaser+Flaregun+Axtinguiser Combo, even though I have problems using airblast constructively, actually I can't do shit with the airblast.
Reading the last few pages of the thread I don't know if it's worth it learning Pyro further, if, even though I'm only playing pub, it has no real use as a dmg-dealer (spy check being the only real use).
As i was advised I'm gonna focus on an other damagedealer like demo or soldier for the case that they are no spies in the othe team or I decide to play non-pub.
First of all my demoman is atrocious, compared to the other classes, so I'm gonna focus on my Pyro and Soldier for the next few weeks.
I guess you need to know many classes to be competent, but how do you approached the classes when you played the first time? Played everything? Play one class only?
I have 15 hours on Pyro and 10 hours on Sniper and the rest is like 30 minutes - 1:30 hours
It can't be bad to play all the classes, you get a better idea of what they are capable off, and that makes you more effective at fighting that specific class. I wouldn't worry too much about what you're learning, just pick a class that you want to play, if it isn't working pick another. Eventually you'll learn them all.
Its worth learning Pyro, but because its a situational class its often better to be something else. Pyro is great at defending, guarding sentries, spychecking, knocking back ubers etc and can do ok damage as long as you can get in close, but quite often that doesn't really occur and you're better of with the versatility of a Soldier or Demoman.
Oh, and to those debating how to play Demo, he is an offfensive class. Stickies can be used defensively and are a big reason why Uber is so important, but the demoman is able to put out the most damage at medium-long range, far more so than the sollies, mostly because of airblast stickies and traps to block of retreats.
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I hate all the new weapons to be honest. The spy's gun is pretty good and the heavy minigun is decent, but everything else is just silly and for fun.
Maybe I missed some. The solider shotgun is good.
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Soldier RL is some fun.
In terms of learning pyro, it can be really good at a high level on pubs.
And spies in competitive play are simply meant to capitalize on mistakes. Generally they'll try and suicide stab an inattentive medic. Or maybe demo :/
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What's the disadvantage to using the Detonator vs. the flare gun?
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On July 06 2011 07:49 ak1knight wrote:
What's the disadvantage to using the Detonator vs. the flare gun?
Criticals are mini-crits instead.
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is there a way to get new guns faster or u just get them by playing a lot? also is there a way to see what level you are, what does the levels on the guns mean?
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levels on guns are making fun of mmos and their items, no bearing whatsoever on the game other than the name
also, tf2wiki.org is a nice resource for a lot of things related to tf2
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On July 06 2011 08:26 killamane wrote:
is there a way to get new guns faster or u just get them by playing a lot? also is there a way to see what level you are, what does the levels on the guns mean?
The fastest way and most reliable way is to trade them for other weapons you don't need. You can also craft them, or hope to find them.
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So far I've been viewing TF2 as the Mario Kart of shooters. Standard pub play is like playing Smash Bros with items on. Fun and zany, which you mostly only get from Nintendo games so props to Valve, but not something you can really take seriously as there's too much BS that can happen. Crits are one thing, but I can't think of many games that thought triple damage crits were a great idea... and due to how damage fall off works crits are often closer to 4-5 times normal damage which is more than a little bonkers. I've also yet to see a reason to not have the auto-reload when not firing option turned on. Reloading in most shooters is a decision you have to make, but seems you can interrupt it and fire at any time in TF2.
Looking at the competitive side... it hasn't really grabbed me yet. Something about the standard 6v6 class setup is currently rubbing me the wrong way (though a couple videos I'm watching atm seem to mix it up a tad). Reminds me of a fighting game with a huge cast (9 classes x number of people playing) and then you end up having 90% mirror matches. Plenty of other games (especially shooters) which are practically mirror matches by design (plenty of interesting mirror matches in BW after all) though, so can't brush it aside based on that. Very uber-centric at times, which can slow it down when teams are waiting for it to charge.
I probably just need to explore the competitive ruleset a bit more... at least figure out what maps are considered decent and which ones aren't. Figured out 2fort is a shitfest when I realized almost all traffic to the intel has to go through the courtyard and one turret more or less covers it + the cheeky scout/rocket jumping routes as well. Lot of maps I've played so far seem to have that "walk through this chokepoint, no there isn't a good flank route available stop asking" design to them.
Not sure I personally agree with the "vanilla loadout" stance yet, but I'm one dude new to the game vs. a bunch of people that have put in thousands of hours tweaking/playing with rules designed to make things as fair a possible. Just more used to a "ban stuff that's proven overpowered/lopsided/has a negative impact on the gameplay - if it's weak and somebody can find a use for it, more power to 'em" mindset. Probably an explanation that can be found for that as well if I search for it a bit.
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EPT
