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United States15275 Posts
On April 01 2013 05:01 LuckoftheIrish wrote:
I don't really think that's true. Infiltration is obviously really good. No one's trying to take that away from him. But there are a lot of good players who can't do like anything at all against his Akuma, who get run through like they aren't even there. And to be honest, when he plays other characters, Infiltration seems pretty normal, like what I'd expect a top-tier player to look like. Excellent skills, capable of dropping rounds occasionally. He didn't show anything particularly amazing against Knuckledu, for instance. With Akuma he genuinely looks untouchable. It's like watching the Tour de France, but everyone else is wearing snowsuits and riding moutain bikes, and he's got a carbon-fiber frame with wheels that weigh half an ounce.
Edit: I'm not saying Akuma is broken, I just think the character is too strong, especially relative to characters in the middle tiers. Also buff Yang please.
That is a product of a lack of Akuma experience in the U.S. In places like Japan (where there are more high-level Akumas), Akuma does not generally do well at all. In general Infiltration and Tokido hold down the fort while others like Fourwude, Eita, and MBR do occasionally well.
On April 01 2013 04:53 diehilde wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2013 04:46 Cel.erity wrote:On April 01 2013 04:28 diehilde wrote:
fucking akuma... honestly all they need to do for the update is nerf akuma and buff the low tiers, this is getting ridiculous... Why are cammy seth or fei always mentioned as s-tier along akuma? thats just bs, akuma is a fuckin tier of his own Players play characters, not the other way around. you really think infiltration is that much better than everybody else? not only winning every major hes entered for ages, but running a train through every other top player? he is certainly good, but nobody can be 100% winrate good in a fighting game like sf4 at this stage without a broken character. There are billions of reasons why akuma is broken, if you cant see that you just lack understanding of basic sf4 mechanics.
Consider that Infiltration has been playing Akuma since SF4 Vanilla and besides his 3rd place at EVO 2010, he was at best a very good player prior to 2012. He got stomped on by Mago and Ricky Ortiz among others and looked pretty bad while it happened. Now he is dominating with the weakest version of Akuma in the entire SF4 franchise with a patient, methodical approach that's very different than his counterpart Tokido.
For the sake of argument, expand on these reasons.
On April 01 2013 05:09 diehilde wrote:
Best Vortex, best pressure escape, best dp, best sweep, best walk speed of the entire cast.
Here are his "weak" points (as in not undebatedly best of the entire cast but merely S tier):
Normals, Ultra/Super, Combo Damage/Stun, Keepaway game... Yeah right... You tellin me this is all offset by low health/stun??? I dont care if you wanna call it broken or not, but hes clearly in a class of his own. The other supposedly S-Tier characters have all some flaws while akuma is flat out best at many key aspects of the game and among the absolute top in the rest. Its clearly BS.
A lack of active frames on his air normals is one of them. His normals are not really amazing either besides st.hk (which is not consistent on the cast) and sweep (his entire spacing game being centered on the hard knockdown property). His damage is average unless you get a clean jump-in and then you have to burn two meters for fireball cancel and EX DP for the best combo. His stun is average as well; he requires 3-5 attempts off hard knockdowns where Cammy only needs 2-3. His super is extremely rare to see and not useful like say Ryu's because it's nearly impossible to catch a good player with it. Ultra 1 and Ultra 2 are also dependent on matchup.
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United States12240 Posts
So this April Duels event... was this advertised at all? Usually I hear about tournaments about a month ahead of time, but I only heard about April Duels a couple of days ago. Someone not paying their bills on the hype machine?
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On April 07 2013 17:38 Excalibur_Z wrote:
So this April Duels event... was this advertised at all? Usually I hear about tournaments about a month ahead of time, but I only heard about April Duels a couple of days ago. Someone not paying their bills on the hype machine?
I'm guessing a lot of people have been feeling pretty indifferent towards Canada Cup events ever since the $8.95 thing.
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They more than made up for Canada Cup 2011 with 2012; that ain't no reason to not bill this event.
Big international showing too.
Zhi on stream chat wondering how Justin blocked a supposedly unblockable.
....Why didn't Mago just throw out U2?
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Tokido looks like he's gonna commit sudoku on cam after losing to those 2 yolo ex upkicks.
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Jayce takes 4th. Wong Factor kicked in hard and Jayce ate 2 random ultras to lose 2 rounds he should have won and just died in the end.
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Tokido lost to Justin, took 3rd. Wong Factor kicked in even harder and Tokido failed to punish raw u1 on block LOL.
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Xian is just too godlike.
Like something clicked recently. He's just on fire.
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Wow saved that setup for the last second.
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What the fuck, that wasn't crossup?
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A little funny Street Fighter experience from me during the weekend.
I was on a mini gaming conference/expo this weekend, and one of the side activities you could do there was to play SSF:IV AE. First time ever that I touched the game.
It was the last day, people was starting to going home and there was one more "information session" left before all scheduled activities was over. In order to do something before that, I decided to play one last round of SF.
How who do I get as my opponent? Yagami, a Swedish Street-Fighter professional. I lost, by I was able to do some damage to him, so I'm happy.
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The afterparty was sick.
Rog and Lap did the ft10 shot/game money match. Wasn't as funny as last year's Canada Cup due to, you know, not having on cam someone that looks like they're fighting death to keep playing the game (Fchamp). Still good nonetheless. Rog bodied Lap 10-1 (and an hour later he was still seen drinking on cam -.-).
Gootecks did a ft5 with troy with beers instead of shot (loser 1 beer winner half beer per game). Goo won, then he proceeds to hustled Lap Chi who was fucking wasted and some more Canadian players.
Tokido, Mago, and Xian slept during that. Dunno if they played after or not, Lap said they were resting up to play some money matches, i had to go to sleep. Creeper cam was on point with the Tokido passing out footage tho.
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On April 09 2013 13:46 O-ops wrote:
The afterparty was sick.
Rog and Lap did the ft10 shot/game money match. Wasn't as funny as last year's Canada Cup due to, you know, not having on cam someone that looks like they're fighting death to keep playing the game (Fchamp). Still good nonetheless. Rog bodied Lap 10-1 (and an hour later he was still seen drinking on cam -.-).
Gootecks did a ft5 with troy with beers instead of shot (loser 1 beer winner half beer per game). Goo won, then he proceeds to hustled Lap Chi who was fucking wasted and some more Canadian players.
Tokido, Mago, and Xian slept during that. Dunno if they played after or not, Lap said they were resting up to play some money matches, i had to go to sleep. Creeper cam was on point with the Tokido passing out footage tho.
I was so bummed I passed out before the afterparty. Might have to hit those archives. Sounded so good.
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United States4126 Posts
Anyone going to be in NY this Saturday? Daigo and Seth Killian are going to have a talk at my school after a local tournament.
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On April 09 2013 13:46 O-ops wrote:+ Show Spoiler +The afterparty was sick.
Rog and Lap did the ft10 shot/game money match. Wasn't as funny as last year's Canada Cup due to, you know, not having on cam someone that looks like they're fighting death to keep playing the game (Fchamp). Still good nonetheless. Rog bodied Lap 10-1 (and an hour later he was still seen drinking on cam -.-).
Gootecks did a ft5 with troy with beers instead of shot (loser 1 beer winner half beer per game). Goo won, then he proceeds to hustled Lap Chi who was fucking wasted and some more Canadian players.
Tokido, Mago, and Xian slept during that. Dunno if they played after or not, Lap said they were resting up to play some money matches, i had to go to sleep. Creeper cam was on point with the Tokido passing out footage tho.
Was there another live band, but this time singing the SFxT theme song???
:D
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AE soon at Texas Showdown: http://www.twitch.tv/leveluplive
Also latest set of char threads up on capcomunity for the balance suggestions.
Viper thread already up at 12 pages, unsurprisingly. 90%+ of the posts seem to be completely clueless - either random people saying to essentially make burnkicks unusable (punishable on block, cant crossup etc) or viper players asking for 10 solid buffs in exchange for a minor nerf on some random special. Its what I expected, but still kinda silly.
It got me thinking about making major character design changes to Viper though (that would never be done by Capcom, but was interesting to think about).
What about (opinions of other people, especially Vipers would be awesome) if you basically made burnkicks actually unusable. Like -10~ on block kinda unusable. Couldn't randomly do them midscreen, couldn't use them for oki on wakeup, couldn't use them close range as crouchtech/throw frametraps etc because the risk/rewards would be very, very not in Vipers favour. The only situation I could think it could be used would be in certain matchups you could burnkick over a fireball etc on reaction and itd obv be used in combos after seismos sometimes.
This would basically make people shut the fuck up about burnkicks, and when I think about it, I personally wouldn't miss burnkicks much. Burnkicks are most definitely not what I enjoy the most about playing Viper. They either connect, or they don't, and they're not particularly interesting. I enjoy close range frametrap/overhead/throw games with feints etc, I enjoy seismo game, I enjoy antiair trades into followups and probably a bunch of other things. Burnkicks definitely don't appear on my list as 'uber fun Viper playstyle elements'. That could absolutely just be me though and other Vipers might love the shit out of them.
As removing burnkicks as a viable get-in/oki/defense option would be an absolutely huge character-changing nerf, she would have to get considerable buffs in exchange. The five minutes of thought ive put into this basically came up with:
-Make her normals actually good. Not just give them a buff, make them GOOD. Not necessarily Chunli or Balrog etc good, but at least able to be even~ in a footsie battle against the majority of the cast.
-Improve her seismo game a little bit. Increased area each seismo hits? Less recovery or startup (would have to relearn seismo SJC timing)? Shrug.
These two things would basically make a character that can zone to some degree with seismos (wouldn't change much from what its like now, would just be slightly better), but can then actually compete in footsie range and once shes 'in' would open people up much like Cammy does now - frametraps, throws into setups etc.
I pretty much just think it would be cool as fuck seeing top level Vipers doing what you sometimes see Latif do vs opponents, normal->feint/doublefeint->normal frametraps for like 10 seconds. That being standard Viper offense because these normals would actually be solid as fuck with decent startup and being quite + on block once feinted - that would be quite exciting to perform and watch. Right now Latif can generally only get away with that when the opponent lets him - it can be interrupted pretty much whenever they want (as in its not a good frametrap) and it rarely leads to any damage, it just looks flashy.
The downside compared to Cammy would be no EX divekick, but Viper would have her own close range frametrap advantages such as her overhead and she has a long range option in seismos which Cammy doesn't have.
Just a quick 5 minute concept I came up with. It will never, ever be implemented because it would be a pretty huge set of changes to the character and wouldn't make everyone happy. I think id actually prefer this version of Viper (as a rough concept) to the current version, even though I love the current version to bits.
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I play Viper casually and honestly, the only thing I can see them changing is just fixing cr.MK hitbox.
Nerfinf Burn kicks would result in having to almost remake the whole character. I don't see Capcom doing that.
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On April 14 2013 05:42 YulyaVolkova wrote:AE soon at Texas Showdown: http://www.twitch.tv/levelupliveAlso latest set of char threads up on capcomunity for the balance suggestions. Viper thread already up at 12 pages, unsurprisingly. 90%+ of the posts seem to be completely clueless - either random people saying to essentially make burnkicks unusable (punishable on block, cant crossup etc) or viper players asking for 10 solid buffs in exchange for a minor nerf on some random special. Its what I expected, but still kinda silly. It got me thinking about making major character design changes to Viper though (that would never be done by Capcom, but was interesting to think about). What about (opinions of other people, especially Vipers would be awesome) if you basically made burnkicks actually unusable. Like -10~ on block kinda unusable. Couldn't randomly do them midscreen, couldn't use them for oki on wakeup, couldn't use them close range as crouchtech/throw frametraps etc because the risk/rewards would be very, very not in Vipers favour. The only situation I could think it could be used would be in certain matchups you could burnkick over a fireball etc on reaction and itd obv be used in combos after seismos sometimes. This would basically make people shut the fuck up about burnkicks, and when I think about it, I personally wouldn't miss burnkicks much. Burnkicks are most definitely not what I enjoy the most about playing Viper. They either connect, or they don't, and they're not particularly interesting. I enjoy close range frametrap/overhead/throw games with feints etc, I enjoy seismo game, I enjoy antiair trades into followups and probably a bunch of other things. Burnkicks definitely don't appear on my list as 'uber fun Viper playstyle elements'. That could absolutely just be me though and other Vipers might love the shit out of them. As removing burnkicks as a viable get-in/oki/defense option would be an absolutely huge character-changing nerf, she would have to get considerable buffs in exchange. The five minutes of thought ive put into this basically came up with: -Make her normals actually good. Not just give them a buff, make them GOOD. Not necessarily Chunli or Balrog etc good, but at least able to be even~ in a footsie battle against the majority of the cast. -Improve her seismo game a little bit. Increased area each seismo hits? Less recovery or startup (would have to relearn seismo SJC timing)? Shrug. These two things would basically make a character that can zone to some degree with seismos (wouldn't change much from what its like now, would just be slightly better), but can then actually compete in footsie range and once shes 'in' would open people up much like Cammy does now - frametraps, throws into setups etc. I pretty much just think it would be cool as fuck seeing top level Vipers doing what you sometimes see Latif do vs opponents, normal->feint/doublefeint->normal frametraps for like 10 seconds. That being standard Viper offense because these normals would actually be solid as fuck with decent startup and being quite + on block once feinted - that would be quite exciting to perform and watch. Right now Latif can generally only get away with that when the opponent lets him - it can be interrupted pretty much whenever they want (as in its not a good frametrap) and it rarely leads to any damage, it just looks flashy. The downside compared to Cammy would be no EX divekick, but Viper would have her own close range frametrap advantages such as her overhead and she has a long range option in seismos which Cammy doesn't have. Just a quick 5 minute concept I came up with. It will never, ever be implemented because it would be a pretty huge set of changes to the character and wouldn't make everyone happy. I think id actually prefer this version of Viper (as a rough concept) to the current version, even though I love the current version to bits.
No, just no. Burnkicks not particularly interesting? wtf man. Is a friggin shoryuken, tatsu or fireball interesting to you? Burnkick is the most interesting special in the entire friggin game. There are like a billion different versions of burnkicks. Frametrap viper doesnt work because she has no hit confirms into solid dmg combo but I guess you want to change her normals that she has more ways to combo into ex seismo. Why for the love of god? What your basically saying is to make viper into another frametrap character like cammy or cody, just with seismos. Go play cody or cammy if thats what floats your boat. Burnkick is what defines viper as a character.
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EPT
