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On July 11 2012 02:35 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 20:49 Cel.erity wrote:On July 10 2012 16:55 Silentenigma wrote:
Get stick if you want to play seriously. Ridiculous advice. Tell this to Wolfkrone though, he obviously needs the help. Krone hasn't used a pad for like a year though. Not that the stick made him any better or worse, but even he decided to switch eventually :>
I'm sure the "What you standing up for?!" video of Ricky v Krone at UFGT8, he used a pad. I don't recall seeing him using a stick although I do remember him saying that he was considering swapping
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Personally, as a noob, I couldn't even consistently throw fireballs using a pad. I would always go farther than a quarter circle and I'd end up jumping or some shit. Got a stick and it made things A LOT easier. Maybe I just suck with a pad or something idk.
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On July 11 2012 03:13 TonyL2 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2012 02:35 Excalibur_Z wrote:On July 10 2012 20:49 Cel.erity wrote:On July 10 2012 16:55 Silentenigma wrote:
Get stick if you want to play seriously. Ridiculous advice. Tell this to Wolfkrone though, he obviously needs the help. Krone hasn't used a pad for like a year though. Not that the stick made him any better or worse, but even he decided to switch eventually :> I'm sure the "What you standing up for?!" video of Ricky v Krone at UFGT8, he used a pad. I don't recall seeing him using a stick although I do remember him saying that he was considering swapping
Krone still uses a pad, he was using one during EVO.
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Is there a generally accepted tier list anywhere?
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You only have to look at this year's finals that much of the cast is viable now
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On July 11 2012 03:04 Wangsta wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 21:24 ain wrote:
Anyone arguing that you need a stick to do well doesn't know what they're talking about. For SF4 I can count on one hand the combos or inputs which would be borderline impossible to execute on a pad.
In the end it comes down to personal preference. It has nothing to do with YOUR preference. If you want to be serious about fighting games you need a stick, and there is zero debate. The reason is because all tournaments use sticks and many tournaments will not accommodate your pad. Using a pad also prevents you from playing your best in arcades, which will usually offer better competition. It's also a matter of future proofing your time investment. Are you willing to spend thousands of hours practicing on a pad only to have a new game or console come out and wipe out your skills? Fighting sticks are unlikely to change anytime soon (they haven't for decades)
Yes, it does have to do with your preference. The fact that there were plenty of pad players and even at least one keyboard player at EVO pretty much invalidates your entire premise.
Sadly not everyone has access to arcades, because as a business model its only really popular in SEA and NA.
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Sure it's about preference, but 9 out of 10 competitive players prefer a stick, for a reason.
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On July 11 2012 03:04 Wangsta wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 21:24 ain wrote:
Anyone arguing that you need a stick to do well doesn't know what they're talking about. For SF4 I can count on one hand the combos or inputs which would be borderline impossible to execute on a pad.
In the end it comes down to personal preference. It has nothing to do with YOUR preference. If you want to be serious about fighting games you need a stick, and there is zero debate. The reason is because all tournaments use sticks and many tournaments will not accommodate your pad. Using a pad also prevents you from playing your best in arcades, which will usually offer better competition. It's also a matter of future proofing your time investment. Are you willing to spend thousands of hours practicing on a pad only to have a new game or console come out and wipe out your skills? Fighting sticks are unlikely to change anytime soon (they haven't for decades)
Your reasonings don't make any sense. Tournaments use sticks and many tournaments will not accommodate your pad? People use pads at tournaments all the time, and there are lagless converters to let your incompatible or old generation pad & stick work on PS3 & 360.
Arcades are dead so I don't know why you bring that up about unless we're talking about flying off to japan, and playing in their arcades against the best or whatever. The scene has shifted to consoles a long time ago. Outside of Japan and some asian countries, the FGC mainly use and compete on consoles.
Fight sticks unlikely to change? I'm not sure what that means or what it has to do with anything, but the new generation of fighting games are being designed differently with a lot easier to do input commands, bigger window timings, built in buffers, and simplified button layouts where needing a 6 face button joystick isn't really necessary to compete anymore.
Dominating pad players such as Wolfkrone backs that statement up. Yeah I know Krone uses a stick now but he brought out the best of C.Viper with a pad for fuck sakes. C.Viper often argued the most technical and execution based character in SF4. Then there's SnakeEyes who won HDR at Evo with a PS3 pad against ST veterans that uses sticks. Runner up of HDR used a pad by the name of DGV. Then there's the 3d fighting game pad players who often place high, and MK9 pad players. Doesn't PerfectLegend winner of MK9 this years Evo use a PS3 controller ? So yeah there is debate.
Your mentality towards gamepads is severely outdated (I use to think that way growing up with arcade fighters), or you don't actually pay attention to competitive fighting games.
With that said, my opinion is to go learn and play on a stick if you can
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51502 Posts
To be fair, MK9's control scheme makes it that using a traditional stick is more of a disadvantage than using a pad, IMO at least.
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Any Claw players around here? I'm in desperate need of some advice vs Rose, playing against her online is proving to be a nightmare where all her buttons beat me even on negative slides or drills and i find trouble dealing real damage once i get my attack going, i've looked around the srk forums but all i see are outdated videos of people barely winning playing quite recklessly at some very risky ranges, a style I don't personally favor.
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On July 11 2012 05:39 Mannerheim wrote:
Sure it's about preference, but 9 out of 10 competitive players prefer a stick, for a reason.
The main reason is because they grew up in arcades, or around other people who used sticks and said to themselves "I need to get myself a stick". I played MvC2 competitively, there was no such thing as pads. Now though, I've been forced to use a pad because of my CTS. I'm a lot worse obviously, but there's nothing I can't do on one, and years of console gaming have made the transition relatively painless.
@poster above: Yeah, the SRK forums aren't very well frequented for the unpopular characters in 2012. I don't know where to find good Juri advice either.
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On July 11 2012 07:36 Cel.erity wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2012 05:39 Mannerheim wrote:
Sure it's about preference, but 9 out of 10 competitive players prefer a stick, for a reason. The main reason is because they grew up in arcades, or around other people who used sticks and said to themselves "I need to get myself a stick". I played MvC2 competitively, there was no such thing as pads. Now though, I've been forced to use a pad because of my CTS. I'm a lot worse obviously, but there's nothing I can't do on one, and years of console gaming have made the transition relatively painless. @poster above: Yeah, the SRK forums aren't very well frequented for the unpopular characters in 2012. I don't know where to find good Juri advice either.
Fanatiq played MvC2 on a pad i heard. I personally grew up on super street fighter 2 on snes and can't play stick since i hardly went to arcades as a child.
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On July 11 2012 04:46 how2TL wrote:
Is there a generally accepted tier list anywhere?
don't play t-hawk and your character has viability. T-hawk only will work for the most patient and fastest reaction based players, because of the way he is in AE, you spend 25-40% of your life bar as currency to get close enough to deal damage, and if you mess up you have to spend anothe 25-40% getting back.
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On July 11 2012 06:19 GTR wrote:
To be fair, MK9's control scheme makes it that using a traditional stick is more of a disadvantage than using a pad, IMO at least.
mk9 sticks usually have another layout. as far as i know.
but i dont know how to play with that. looks highly uncomfortable.
+ Show Spoiler +
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On July 11 2012 06:23 St3MoR wrote:
Any Claw players around here? I'm in desperate need of some advice vs Rose, playing against her online is proving to be a nightmare where all her buttons beat me even on negative slides or drills and i find trouble dealing real damage once i get my attack going, i've looked around the srk forums but all i see are outdated videos of people barely winning playing quite recklessly at some very risky ranges, a style I don't personally favor.
I'm not really great at SF4 (around 1500pp / 4000bp) but Rose has 3 wake up options. Block, backdash and reversal spiral.
Reversal EX spiral's invincibility wears out before it becomes active, so a well timed attack can beat it rather easily and anything with invincibility will generally beat it. Backdash, well... Your roll attack should do the job.
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United States12240 Posts
On July 11 2012 08:20 2WeaK wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2012 06:23 St3MoR wrote:
Any Claw players around here? I'm in desperate need of some advice vs Rose, playing against her online is proving to be a nightmare where all her buttons beat me even on negative slides or drills and i find trouble dealing real damage once i get my attack going, i've looked around the srk forums but all i see are outdated videos of people barely winning playing quite recklessly at some very risky ranges, a style I don't personally favor. I'm not really great at SF4 (around 1500pp / 4000bp) but Rose has 3 wake up options. Block, backdash and reversal spiral. Reversal EX spiral's invincibility wears out before it becomes active, so a well timed attack can beat it rather easily and anything with invincibility will generally beat it. Backdash, well... Your roll attack should do the job.
I'd say c.lp OS c.hk would beat all of those options in Claw vs Rose. Input would be (holding down-back) c.lp c.lp+c.hk c.lp. You do it with meaty timing such that the c.lp recovers into block before an EX spiral hits you, if the c.lp is blocked there's too much blockstun for the c.hk input to be read so it uses your later c.lp input instead, and if she backdashes on wakeup then the c.lp would whiff and the c.hk would come out and chase her down. A focus backdash would get her out but you can start mixing that up with throws on wakeup in that case.
Heck, you might even be able to get a df+HK to beat Rose's backdash, in which case c.lp OS df+HK would work.
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On July 11 2012 04:46 how2TL wrote:
Is there a generally accepted tier list anywhere?
Just looked at the Evo2012 results again, in the top20, there is only 1 double character (cammy), so I'd say you can't say too much about it. Amongst top 32 players, these weren't used:
Blanka, Chun-Li, Dan, Deejay, Dhalsim, Dudley, Evil Ryu, Gen, Guy, Hakan, Juri, Rose, T.Hawk, Yang, Zangief.
But for a lot of these there are top players as well (Xian, Zangitan, Mizoteru, Combofiend, Juicebox, Gootecks, F.Champ, Ultradavid  ), so I'd say pretty much every character is viable now.
There are still better/worse matchups of course. GL!
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On July 11 2012 08:30 aseq wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2012 04:46 how2TL wrote:
Is there a generally accepted tier list anywhere? Just looked at the Evo2012 results again, in the top20, there is only 1 double character (cammy), so I'd say you can't say too much about it. Amongst top 32 players, these weren't used: Blanka, Chun-Li, Dan, Deejay, Dhalsim, Dudley, Evil Ryu, Gen, Guy, Hakan, Juri, Rose, T.Hawk, Yang, Zangief. But for a lot of these there are top players as well (Xian, Zangitan, Mizoteru, Combofiend, Juicebox, Gootecks, F.Champ, Ultradavid ), so I'd say pretty much every character is viable now. There are still better/worse matchups of course. GL!
Infiltration plays hakan and he won so hakan is represented in the top 32 (he played some hakan before top 8)
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worst are probably in no particular order thawk, chun, dudley, dan, yang (i'm biased here, but I really believe it). Don't know about hakan: infiltration is good with him, but I can't say if that's only because everyone is unfamiliar playing him and infiltration is a genious anyway, or if he's genuinely good.
In SF4, characters are not really bad in general - it's just the matchups that decide if a character is tournament viable or not and if the bad matchups are against the most played or best characters. A good example is Zangief, who was not too bad during AE (before 2012) because he had good matchups (although I think that changed as people figured it out) against the twins and fei, which were played by virtually everyone and considered to be god tier. Now that they are not so common anymore, his numerous bad matchups against zoners like sagat dominate the tier consideration and he is generally considered low tier.
You can play all characters though, the gap is not that big. Just don't expect to win tournaments with thawk
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EPT![[image loading]](http://vglounge.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Mortal-Kombat-Arcade-Stick-1.jpg)
