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Alright, I'm getting really god damn frustrated at Heavy classes.
Fifteen deaths last game. Fifteen deaths from heavies. Want to know how EVERY SINGLE one happened?
I started shooting him. I even get some mid air shots on them. The fight is lasting about ~30 seconds and I'm dancing all over them like no ones business. I mean, they're my fucking bitch. They keep shooting and missing, and I keep hitting, knocking them off and keep skiing and jumping around them. And you know what happened, without a doubt, every single time? I get them >10% and as I sometimes pull out my shotgun to shoot them, or shoot another spinfuser at them to finish them off (depending), they get ONE shot. ONE shot at me, and it lands near my feet. And it one shots me. I was at full health most of the time still, and this ONE fucking shot from their god damn Spinfuser kills me.
Are you telling me that I need to out-maneuver, out shoot, and outplay someone who is a Heavy in every conceivable way just to have a CHANCE of beating them? Where I need to get 4-8 shots on them, and they just need to get one god damn shot off in range of me to either one shot me, or bring me to near-death?
Am I just not supposed to fight Heavies at all as a Pathfinder or something? Which I kind of find hard considering how many I fucking run in into on the enemy team. I mean, this is literally just blowing me away. I out play these people so god damn hard from the start, one of their things land near my feet, even when I'm not even touching the fucking ground, and I'm just dead. Instantly.
/rant
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On December 14 2011 06:18 Fruscainte wrote:
Alright, I'm getting really god damn frustrated at Heavy classes.
Fifteen deaths last game. Fifteen deaths from heavies. Want to know how EVERY SINGLE one happened?
I started shooting him. I even get some mid air shots on them. The fight is lasting about ~30 seconds and I'm dancing all over them like no ones business. I mean, they're my fucking bitch. They keep shooting and missing, and I keep hitting, knocking them off and keep skiing and jumping around them. And you know what happened, without a doubt, every single time? I get them >10% and as I sometimes pull out my shotgun to shoot them, or shoot another spinfuser at them to finish them off (depending), they get ONE shot. ONE shot at me, and it lands near my feet. And it one shots me. I was at full health most of the time still, and this ONE fucking shot from their god damn Spinfuser kills me.
Are you telling me that I need to out-maneuver, out shoot, and outplay someone who is a Heavy in every conceivable way just to have a CHANCE of beating them? Where I need to get 4-8 shots on them, and they just need to get one god damn shot off in range of me to either one shot me, or bring me to near-death?
Am I just not supposed to fight Heavies at all as a Pathfinder or something? Which I kind of find hard considering how many I fucking run in into on the enemy team. I mean, this is literally just blowing me away. I out play these people so god damn hard from the start, one of their things land near my feet, even when I'm not even touching the fucking ground, and I'm just dead. Instantly.
/rant
I'm not really a fan of the 1-shot spinfusor kills on lights, and I don't even play lights. In previous games, a direct hit from a spinfusor would do about 85% damage to a light, which seemed appropriate.
I think the health on heavies is fine given their lack of mobility.
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On December 14 2011 06:23 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 06:18 Fruscainte wrote:
Alright, I'm getting really god damn frustrated at Heavy classes.
Fifteen deaths last game. Fifteen deaths from heavies. Want to know how EVERY SINGLE one happened?
I started shooting him. I even get some mid air shots on them. The fight is lasting about ~30 seconds and I'm dancing all over them like no ones business. I mean, they're my fucking bitch. They keep shooting and missing, and I keep hitting, knocking them off and keep skiing and jumping around them. And you know what happened, without a doubt, every single time? I get them >10% and as I sometimes pull out my shotgun to shoot them, or shoot another spinfuser at them to finish them off (depending), they get ONE shot. ONE shot at me, and it lands near my feet. And it one shots me. I was at full health most of the time still, and this ONE fucking shot from their god damn Spinfuser kills me.
Are you telling me that I need to out-maneuver, out shoot, and outplay someone who is a Heavy in every conceivable way just to have a CHANCE of beating them? Where I need to get 4-8 shots on them, and they just need to get one god damn shot off in range of me to either one shot me, or bring me to near-death?
Am I just not supposed to fight Heavies at all as a Pathfinder or something? Which I kind of find hard considering how many I fucking run in into on the enemy team. I mean, this is literally just blowing me away. I out play these people so god damn hard from the start, one of their things land near my feet, even when I'm not even touching the fucking ground, and I'm just dead. Instantly.
/rant I'm not really a fan of the 1-shot spinfusor kills on lights, and I don't even play lights. In previous games, a direct hit from a spinfusor would do about 85% damage to a light, which seemed appropriate. I think the health on heavies is fine given their lack of mobility.
I'm perfectly fine with the health on heavies.
I'm fucking annoyed as hell that their fucking heavy Spinfusers and Spinfuser MKD's one shot Lights if it comes within 5000 kilometers of our feet. It basically defeats the purpose of playing a Light class when the entire enemy team can go Heavy and there is NOTHING you can do about it. Hell, it's not even the one shotting that's the problem -- it's the obscene amount of damage and the radius. I was "hit" by a Spinfuser MKD that hit ~3-4m behind me when I was grabbing a flag at like 200mph and it brought me from full health to 25. I was killed a second later from some hitscan shit. That's just ridiculously stupid. It's honestly getting to the point where if there is an enemy team of Heavies/Mediums, you might as well just push with more Heavies/Mediums because that's the only way you can get the flag off of them.
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On December 14 2011 05:38 Rotodyne wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 05:05 Risen wrote:
God... seeing blue plate special pop up is probably one of the more fun times I've had recently in games.
Edit: The infusion of pleasure that comes with nailing a fleeing capper halfway across the map is amazing. A lot of it is luck at this point b/c it's been a while since I played Tribes (like 2-3 years) but it's coming back! Yep, killing flag carriers is my favorite thing about tribes. I love sending a mortar high up in the air for it to come down and perfectly connect with their capper who thinks he's in the clear.
I can't tell you how many times I've thought OMGYESIWIN and suddenly mortar. :<
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On December 14 2011 06:18 Fruscainte wrote:
Alright, I'm getting really god damn frustrated at Heavy classes.
Fifteen deaths last game. Fifteen deaths from heavies. Want to know how EVERY SINGLE one happened?
I started shooting him. I even get some mid air shots on them. The fight is lasting about ~30 seconds and I'm dancing all over them like no ones business. I mean, they're my fucking bitch. They keep shooting and missing, and I keep hitting, knocking them off and keep skiing and jumping around them. And you know what happened, without a doubt, every single time? I get them >10% and as I sometimes pull out my shotgun to shoot them, or shoot another spinfuser at them to finish them off (depending), they get ONE shot. ONE shot at me, and it lands near my feet. And it one shots me. I was at full health most of the time still, and this ONE fucking shot from their god damn Spinfuser kills me.
Are you telling me that I need to out-maneuver, out shoot, and outplay someone who is a Heavy in every conceivable way just to have a CHANCE of beating them? Where I need to get 4-8 shots on them, and they just need to get one god damn shot off in range of me to either one shot me, or bring me to near-death?
Am I just not supposed to fight Heavies at all as a Pathfinder or something? Which I kind of find hard considering how many I fucking run in into on the enemy team. I mean, this is literally just blowing me away. I out play these people so god damn hard from the start, one of their things land near my feet, even when I'm not even touching the fucking ground, and I'm just dead. Instantly.
/rant
I actually like it the way it is, and I mostly play pathfinder. If I could own heavies as a light (and thus compete fine with mediums and lights) I would never ever play anything else. Heavies have to be super strong and have super strong weapons cause they move like a 90 old grandma in molasses. It's not hard to dance around a heavy for what feels like 20 minutes but it's incredibly hard as the heavy to even land a shot. It's fine the way it is imo at least.
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Scrims tonight! Stream starting at http://www.twitch.tv/tweekc
9 PM GMT/4 PM EST : Hindsight [.hs] VS Working as Intended [wai.] (EU) (+:30 minutes for technical reason)
2 AM GMT/9 PM EST : the tao of tribe [is tao] VS Buff Shrikes [pewpew] (US)
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Eh, I have no problem with heavy weapons killing light armor guys in single hit if it's direct. I've no problem either killing most heaviest with pathfinder since most of them are so god damn slow and have terrible aim.
Silverfire forget everything what I said about fighting pathfinders :p Nova does more damage than half shot from your rifle, 3 hits will kill any light. Try to get one of those mid air fights with them and you shouldn't have much problem shooting their face off which will leave them wondering what just happened.
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On December 14 2011 06:26 Fruscainte wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 06:23 xDaunt wrote:On December 14 2011 06:18 Fruscainte wrote:
Alright, I'm getting really god damn frustrated at Heavy classes.
Fifteen deaths last game. Fifteen deaths from heavies. Want to know how EVERY SINGLE one happened?
I started shooting him. I even get some mid air shots on them. The fight is lasting about ~30 seconds and I'm dancing all over them like no ones business. I mean, they're my fucking bitch. They keep shooting and missing, and I keep hitting, knocking them off and keep skiing and jumping around them. And you know what happened, without a doubt, every single time? I get them >10% and as I sometimes pull out my shotgun to shoot them, or shoot another spinfuser at them to finish them off (depending), they get ONE shot. ONE shot at me, and it lands near my feet. And it one shots me. I was at full health most of the time still, and this ONE fucking shot from their god damn Spinfuser kills me.
Are you telling me that I need to out-maneuver, out shoot, and outplay someone who is a Heavy in every conceivable way just to have a CHANCE of beating them? Where I need to get 4-8 shots on them, and they just need to get one god damn shot off in range of me to either one shot me, or bring me to near-death?
Am I just not supposed to fight Heavies at all as a Pathfinder or something? Which I kind of find hard considering how many I fucking run in into on the enemy team. I mean, this is literally just blowing me away. I out play these people so god damn hard from the start, one of their things land near my feet, even when I'm not even touching the fucking ground, and I'm just dead. Instantly.
/rant I'm not really a fan of the 1-shot spinfusor kills on lights, and I don't even play lights. In previous games, a direct hit from a spinfusor would do about 85% damage to a light, which seemed appropriate. I think the health on heavies is fine given their lack of mobility. I'm perfectly fine with the health on heavies. I'm fucking annoyed as hell that their fucking heavy Spinfusers and Spinfuser MKD's one shot Lights if it comes within 5000 kilometers of our feet. It basically defeats the purpose of playing a Light class when the entire enemy team can go Heavy and there is NOTHING you can do about it. Hell, it's not even the one shotting that's the problem -- it's the obscene amount of damage and the radius. I was "hit" by a Spinfuser MKD that hit ~3-4m behind me when I was grabbing a flag at like 200mph and it brought me from full health to 25. I was killed a second later from some hitscan shit. That's just ridiculously stupid. It's honestly getting to the point where if there is an enemy team of Heavies/Mediums, you might as well just push with more Heavies/Mediums because that's the only way you can get the flag off of them.
Well, I'm sure that Riot's thinking behind the spinfusor damage on lights goes something like this:
1) It's really hard to hit high-speed players with a spinfusor -- particularly when chasing cappers.
2) In previous Tribes games, most everyone was in light armor with E-packs, thus capable of achieving velocities similar to or better than the velocities of the players whom they were chasing.
3) In previous Tribes games, everyone had a chaingun to help with chasing.
4) In this game, only cappers are in light armor.
5) In this game, the classes with spinfusors don't have a chaingun (just a relatively shitty pistol).
6) We're scared shitless that no one will play soldiers because they can't chase effectively with just a spinfusor.
7) Too compensate, we'll make spinfusors 1-shot lights because it's fairly likely that a newb can a capper at least once whereas we doubt that they'll be able to hit a capper twice.
I'm not expecting anyone to feel better about spinfusor damage after reading this, but I have no doubt that this is what Riot is thinking.
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On December 14 2011 06:34 DCRed wrote:
Eh, I have no problem with heavy weapons killing light armor guys in single hit if it's direct. I've no problem either killing most heaviest with pathfinder since most of them are so god damn slow and have terrible aim.
Silverfire forget everything what I said about fighting pathfinders :p Nova does more damage than half shot from your rifle, 3 hits will kill any light. Try to get one of those mid air fights with them and you shouldn't have much problem shooting their face off which will leave them wondering what just happened.
I'm fine if it's direct too, it's just...when it lands even remotely around me at all and it brings me from 850 down to 20 even though it landed like 5m away from me is kind of frustrating.
Perhaps I just need to abuse my speed more.
I just find it unendingly frustrating that I need to land significantly more direct shots whilst a single one of theirs will end me instantly. It seems like there is literally no downside to playing on that side of the fence other than speed, which doesn't really matter when you're on defense. Especially on Crossfire.
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On December 14 2011 06:18 Fruscainte wrote:
Alright, I'm getting really god damn frustrated at Heavy classes.
Fifteen deaths last game. Fifteen deaths from heavies. Want to know how EVERY SINGLE one happened?
I started shooting him. I even get some mid air shots on them. The fight is lasting about ~30 seconds and I'm dancing all over them like no ones business. I mean, they're my fucking bitch. They keep shooting and missing, and I keep hitting, knocking them off and keep skiing and jumping around them. And you know what happened, without a doubt, every single time? I get them >10% and as I sometimes pull out my shotgun to shoot them, or shoot another spinfuser at them to finish them off (depending), they get ONE shot. ONE shot at me, and it lands near my feet. And it one shots me. I was at full health most of the time still, and this ONE fucking shot from their god damn Spinfuser kills me.
Are you telling me that I need to out-maneuver, out shoot, and outplay someone who is a Heavy in every conceivable way just to have a CHANCE of beating them? Where I need to get 4-8 shots on them, and they just need to get one god damn shot off in range of me to either one shot me, or bring me to near-death?
Am I just not supposed to fight Heavies at all as a Pathfinder or something? Which I kind of find hard considering how many I fucking run in into on the enemy team. I mean, this is literally just blowing me away. I out play these people so god damn hard from the start, one of their things land near my feet, even when I'm not even touching the fucking ground, and I'm just dead. Instantly.
/rant
Leave?
No really, why fight a heavy as a pathfinder/jumper? There's not a single compelling reason to do it. Sure you CAN do it and win by out-maneuvering them (which you should have to since you're a pathfinder), but why? Since there's no good reason to do it, there's no reason it should be easy. Pathfinders are for flag capping and possibly chasing people who move fast (so other pathfinders). There's no reason to play the class in a role that's going to try to confront a heavy over avoiding them.
If you MUST do it, take advantage of range. At a mid/far distance you should have a very easy time avoiding all of his shots while he's going to have difficulty avoiding yours with his lower momentum and flight abilities. Up close it's much easier for him to launch a shot that you don't have time to dodge.
Hell at range you may even just be able to bombard him if you can get him to lose his momentum.
It is possible that the spinfusor buff affected the 'heavy' spinfusors more than it should have. Since the spinfusor on heavies is almost always a secondary weapon to another projectile weapon it doesn't seem like that buff was needed.
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On December 14 2011 06:44 Logo wrote:
If you MUST do it, take advantage of range. At a mid/far distance you should have a very easy time avoiding all of his shots while he's going to have difficulty avoiding yours with his lower momentum and flight abilities. Up close it's much easier for him to launch a shot that you don't have time to dodge.
Yeah, this. And for the love of all that's holy, don't follow a jugg into a base if you're in light armor. When I play jugg and go HO, I rape lights and mediums all day long in base with just a spinfusor because I can kill them in 1-2 fairly direct hits, whereas they have to hit me 4+ times.
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Oh also, if you hit a heavy in the middle of the map and kill their momentum... I'd probably just leave them because it'll take them so long to get anywhere useful that you've already accomplished what killing them would have done.
Of course it depends on map, on drydocks a heavy in the middle is still a problem, but on the ice map they're more or less useless and stranded.
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On December 14 2011 06:56 Logo wrote:
Oh also, if you hit a heavy in the middle of the map and kill their momentum... I'd probably just leave them because it'll take them so long to get anywhere useful that you've already accomplished what killing them would have done.
Of course it depends on map, on drydocks a heavy in the middle is still a problem, but on the ice map they're more or less useless and stranded.
Myes, that's a good point.
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On December 14 2011 06:26 Fruscainte wrote:
I'm perfectly fine with the health on heavies.
I'm fucking annoyed as hell that their fucking heavy Spinfusers and Spinfuser MKD's one shot Lights if it comes within 5000 kilometers of our feet. It basically defeats the purpose of playing a Light class when the entire enemy team can go Heavy and there is NOTHING you can do about it. Hell, it's not even the one shotting that's the problem -- it's the obscene amount of damage and the radius. I was "hit" by a Spinfuser MKD that hit ~3-4m behind me when I was grabbing a flag at like 200mph and it brought me from full health to 25. I was killed a second later from some hitscan shit. That's just ridiculously stupid. It's honestly getting to the point where if there is an enemy team of Heavies/Mediums, you might as well just push with more Heavies/Mediums because that's the only way you can get the flag off of them.
Some damages from the beta forums:
+ Show Spoiler +--Pathfinder-- - Light
Light Spinfusor - Projectile
Direct - 812
Close - 580
Far - 330
--Soldier-- - Medium
Spinfusor - Projectile
Direct - Player - 910
Direct - Beowulf - 1310
--Juggernaut-- - Heavy
Spinfusor MKD - Projectile
Direct - Player - 840
Close - Player - 600
Medium - Player - 570
Far - Player - 300
Direct - Beowulf - 1209
--Brute-- - Heavy
Heavy Spinfusor - Projectile
Direct - 980
Short - 700
Long - 430
VS Armored - 1646
I don't feel like the heavy spinfusors are very significantly more powerful than the other spinfusors versus lights, the MKD barely does more damage than the light spunfusor (and has roughly same rate of fire as medium spinfusor), and the brute's isn't really that much better than a soldiers, since both have the ability to 1-shot a light on a direct hit, and the heavy spinfusor has the worst rate of fire.
I've been thinking of picking up brute for my heavy on flag, because the juggernaut's spinfusor is so comparatively awful for stopping flag runners, though part of me wants to just master timing mortars to explode right when the flagrunner comes by.
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On December 14 2011 07:09 Glenstorm wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 06:26 Fruscainte wrote:
I'm perfectly fine with the health on heavies.
I'm fucking annoyed as hell that their fucking heavy Spinfusers and Spinfuser MKD's one shot Lights if it comes within 5000 kilometers of our feet. It basically defeats the purpose of playing a Light class when the entire enemy team can go Heavy and there is NOTHING you can do about it. Hell, it's not even the one shotting that's the problem -- it's the obscene amount of damage and the radius. I was "hit" by a Spinfuser MKD that hit ~3-4m behind me when I was grabbing a flag at like 200mph and it brought me from full health to 25. I was killed a second later from some hitscan shit. That's just ridiculously stupid. It's honestly getting to the point where if there is an enemy team of Heavies/Mediums, you might as well just push with more Heavies/Mediums because that's the only way you can get the flag off of them.
Some damages from the beta forums: + Show Spoiler +--Pathfinder-- - Light
Light Spinfusor - Projectile
Direct - 812
Close - 580
Far - 330
--Soldier-- - Medium
Spinfusor - Projectile
Direct - Player - 910
Direct - Beowulf - 1310
--Juggernaut-- - Heavy
Spinfusor MKD - Projectile
Direct - Player - 840
Close - Player - 600
Medium - Player - 570
Far - Player - 300
Direct - Beowulf - 1209
--Brute-- - Heavy
Heavy Spinfusor - Projectile
Direct - 980
Short - 700
Long - 430
VS Armored - 1646 I don't feel like the heavy spinfusors are very significantly more powerful than the other spinfusors versus lights, the MKD barely does more damage than the light spunfusor (and has roughly same rate of fire as medium spinfusor), and the brute's isn't really that much better than a soldiers, since both have the ability to 1-shot a light on a direct hit, and the heavy spinfusor has the worst rate of fire. I've been thinking of picking up brute for my heavy on flag, because the juggernaut's spinfusor is so comparatively awful for stopping flag runners, though part of me wants to just master timing mortars to explode right when the flagrunner comes by.
It's interesting, but kinda arbitrary. The ranges are different with the different spinfusors. What may count as far on a light might be a mid on a heavy spinfusor and THAT will make all the difference in the world.
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Given how open the flag stands are on all of the maps (not to mention orbital bombardment and how shitty body blocking currently is), I get the sense that HoF isn't particularly viable right now. In almost every circumstance I think that you'd do better with an extra soldier on the flag.
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I still got another key available if by some ridiculous chance someone doesn't have a key.
V2ABF-09272-6D714-C21BE-B8292
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On December 14 2011 06:34 DCRed wrote:
Silverfire forget everything what I said about fighting pathfinders :p Nova does more damage than half shot from your rifle, 3 hits will kill any light. Try to get one of those mid air fights with them and you shouldn't have much problem shooting their face off which will leave them wondering what just happened.
I know that the Nova does a shit ton of damage -- the problem is that the more time I spend dueling, the less time I'm spending intercepting inbound cappers, and despite what people say about the sniper rifle damage (too litte/too much/just right), whatever amount of softening I can do seriously helps the HoF. If I can land any two shots on a light on a front/back route (easy) or side/side route (slightly harder, but not too bad), he's not leaving with the flag. Even if he does, he's in no physical shape to disc jump, meaning unless he's practiced his route a million times, my chasers are going to have an easier time dealing with him.
My other problem with dueling Pathfinders with the Nova is that they start the duel with a momentum advantage. They're coming into the duel with at least 130 km/h off a mild downhill whereas I'm at a standstill or just slight movement. My best bet has always been to run towards help and hope to god someone notices that there's a light trying to shove a blue plate down my throat. I've been getting better with leading the Nova, but unless it's an inbound light that I've already tagged a few times, I'm usually on the ass end of that duel.
Challenges in dealing with short-range combat aside, the most gratifying part of playing Sentinel are still the cross-map headshots inches away from flag cap. Pretty sure those exact kills are what prompts them to hunt me down, though. That, or dying mid-route just after seeing a clear flag stand.
EDIT:
@Fruscainte: Let the other classes deal with heavies. Shrikes make heavies grab their ankles. Scramblers have a surprisingly easy time against heavies because their Arx Buster grenades stick and kill a heavy dead in about 3-4 shots. Infiltrators just make a HoF's life miserable -- a sticky and 2-3 pops from the pistol and you're dead. Usually they're paying too much attention to inbounds that I can toss a 2nd sticky and just leave. They're instagibbed from two stickies anyway. Sentinels also make pretty short work of HoF. Not so much heavy offense as you don't have the distance to make the heavy realize they're not gonna live through getting to you. Raiders can soak up one serious hit from a heavy and still empty their SMG into a heavy fast enough to rip them apart.
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As someone how has played a fair amount of both Jug and Path, I'm okay with how that duel matchup works. Sure Jug has a slight edge just because of his massive health, but it's really not all that uncommon for the Path to win. It's far easier to hit a heavy repeatedly with disks than a light, he lands on the ground twice as much and can't go fast at all. About disks one shotting lights, it has to be a dead on hit to do so, so I'm okay with it. It's not terribly difficult to hit with some splash, and will take up to 3 disks if you aren't hitting very close, but a dead on disk shot deserves to kill a light. Also don't forget: The path can run away, the jug cannot.
I'm pretty annoyed with the fusion mortar, mostly because its radius is so ridiculous. Sure, it deserves to have that kind of firepower outdoors, where its still ridiculously good for flag D, but when you take it inside you can blow up entire rooms. It makes it really frustrating to play Infiltrator especially, where you have very very few options for taking down a jugg guarding the generator. You need to hit him with multiple clips / mines /melees while any weapon he has will 1 shot you, and once he knows you are there he can spam fusion mortar into nearby rooms, and if you're hiding in the room you have no chance to survive. Heavies really are quite imbalanced indoors, and for a light class that needs to operate indoors (infiltrator), its a problem.
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On December 14 2011 07:48 Morphling_ wrote:
As someone how has played a fair amount of both Jug and Path, I'm okay with how that duel matchup works. Sure Jug has a slight edge just because of his massive health, but it's really not all that uncommon for the Path to win. It's far easier to hit a heavy repeatedly with disks than a light, he lands on the ground twice as much and can't go fast at all. About disks one shotting lights, it has to be a dead on hit to do so, so I'm okay with it. It's not terribly difficult to hit with some splash, and will take up to 3 disks if you aren't hitting very close, but a dead on disk shot deserves to kill a light.
I'm pretty annoyed with the fusion mortar, mostly because its radius is so ridiculous. Sure, it deserves to have that kind of firepower outdoors, where its still ridiculously good for flag D, but when you take it inside you can blow up entire rooms. It makes it really frustrating to play Infiltrator especially, where you have very very few options for taking down a jugg guarding the flag. You need to hit him with multiple clips / mines /melees while any weapon he has will 1 shot you, and once he knows you are there he can spam fusion mortar into nearby rooms, and if you're hiding in the room you have no chance to survive. Heavies really are quite imbalanced indoors, and for a light class that needs to operate indoors (infiltrator), its a problem.
Isn't there a perk for additional melee damage from behind a target or something like that. Have you tried using that perk indoors vs heavies? Sure it won't help if they know you're there or are spamming, but still.
Especially for something like a melee + shoot or hit and stick with grenade.
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EPT
