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United States10328 Posts
Should've gone into a hallway and sticky flamed (it reveals invis dudes.)
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On November 13 2012 01:42 ]343[ wrote:
Should've gone into a hallway and sticky flamed (it reveals invis dudes.)
Oh, thats good to know, I had no clue it did that:D
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You can also sticky flame it in the open: unseen horrors move exactly like bats do. So next time you're near a bat watch how it moves ... usually if you move away from a bat it will end its next turn adjacent.
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In general I beat unseen horrors by either moving into a hallway and blasting in one direction with spells/wands, or just backtracking until I have see invis or more levels (they usually only show up after Lair).
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Looking for a bit of advice. Playing my first successful spellcasting character, a DDEn of mahkleb. I made it to lair so I thought I'd try to get some help. So far I found a couple good rings early on-- one for more mana, and one for better spell success-- and got some books of summoning, so once I was able to get Invis under 10% I've been training summons. I just cleared out lair and finally got Summon Demon to a reasonable rate of success. I'm trying to figure out where to go next in terms of summons.
Right now I know invisibility, hibernation, confuse, apport, butterflies, blink, summon imp, abjuration, and summon demon.
In terms of spells to learn, summoning spells in my library are: canine familiar, recall, elemental, shadow creatures, and ugly thing. I've also got some miscellaneous spells I could learn: corona, sure blade, enslavement, tukima's dance, sting, cure poison, mephitic cloud, poison weapon, alistair's intoxication, olgreb's toxic radiance, and venom bolt. But basically I'm only trained for hexes and summons, and summons are what will win me the game I think.
So basically I'm wondering if it's worth it to train up some element (probably earth since I'm a dwarf) for Elemental or if I should go for shadow creatures or ugly thing to supplement the demon summoning. Also in terms of skills training I'm at:
9 fighting, 8 dodging, 11 stealth, 10 stabbing, 6 traps, 9 spellcasting, 10 hexes, 9 summoning. Should I just pump summoning and spellcasting from here on out? or is it worth it to get more fighting like if I were a melee character
In any case, I really feel good about this character  and I hope to win with him by summoning things. Is the current spell selection in his library good enough or should I be acquiring for books if I find a scroll? thanks for the help!
Dump file below
+ Show Spoiler + Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.12-a0-1074-g246f75f (console) character file.
Blazinghand the Covert (Deep Dwarf Enchanter) Turns: 22611, Time: 02:38:17
HP 75/111 AC 3 Str 14 XL: 13 Next: 97%
MP 34/34 EV 17 Int 18 God: Makhleb [******]
Gold 1305 SH 0 Dex 16 Spells: 9 memorised, 6 levels left
Res.Fire : + . . See Invis. : . b - +1,+2 dagger (drain)
Res.Cold : . . . Warding : . B - -5 robe of the Blessed Realm {rF+ Stlth++
Life Prot.: . . . Conserve : . (no shield)
Res.Poison: . Res.Corr. : + (no helmet)
Res.Elec. : . Clarity : . D - +2 elf cloak
Sust.Abil.: . . Spirit.Shd : . X - +1 pair of gloves of Midsummer {Str+1}
Res.Mut. : . Stasis : . S - +0 pair of boots
Res.Rott. : . Ctrl.Telep.: . h - amulet of resist corrosion
Saprovore : . . . Flight : . t - ring of wizardry
E - cursed ring of magical power
@: non-regenerating, quite resistant to hostile enchantments, extremely stealthy
A: damage resistance, recharge devices, sense surroundings 2, slow healing 3,
Str +1
a: Device Recharging, Minor Destruction, Lesser Servant of Makhleb, Major
Destruction, Greater Servant of Makhleb, Renounce Religion
You are on level 2 of the Lair of Beasts.
You worship Makhleb.
Makhleb is exalted by your worship.
You are very hungry.
You have visited 3 branches of the dungeon, and seen 22 of its levels.
You have also visited: Sewer and Ossuary.
You have collected 1285 gold pieces.
Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations
You are resistant to damage.
You can recharge devices by infusing magical energy.
You passively map the area around you.
You do not heal naturally.
Your muscles are strong (Str +1).
Skills:
- Level 9.0 Fighting
- Level 0.8 Short Blades
- Level 0.8 Throwing
- Level 8.3 Dodging
- Level 11.0 Stealth
- Level 10.0 Stabbing
- Level 6.0 Traps
* Level 9.7 Spellcasting
- Level 10.2 Hexes
* Level 9.4 Summonings
- Level 1.0 Ice Magic
You have 6 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:
Your Spells Type Power Failure Level Hunger
a - Invisibility Hex ######... 8% 6 ######.
b - Ensorcelled Hibernat Hex/Ice #####.. 1% 2 None
c - Confuse Hex ######... 1% 3 None
d - Apportation Tloc ##........ 4% 1 None
e - Summon Butterflies Summ ######... 1% 1 None
f - Blink Tloc N/A 5% 2 None
g - Call Imp Summ ######.... 1% 2 None
h - Abjuration Summ ######.... 1% 3 None
i - Summon Demon Summ ######.... 2% 5 ####...
Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations
Branches:
Dungeon (13/27) Temple (1/1) D:4 Orc (0/4) D:10
Lair (8/8) D:12 Shoals (0/5) Lair:4 Snake (0/5) Lair:4
Slime (0/6) Lair:7
Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Sif Muna
Trog
Vehumet
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
the Shining One
Jiyva
Shops:
D:12: =
Portals:
Hell: Lair:8
Ziggurat: D:9 (5150 gp)
Annotations
D:9 9 exclusions
D:13 exclusions: 2 ice statues and orange crystal statue
Lair:8 exclusion: oklob plant
Inventory:
Hand weapons
a - a +4,+0 sabre of venom
(You took it off Eustachio on level 9 of the Dungeon)
b - a +1,+2 dagger of draining (weapon)
(You found it on level 2 of the Dungeon)
Missiles
d - 84 darts
v - 2 darts of frost
R - a dart of flame (quivered)
Armour
B - the -5 robe of the Blessed Realm (worn) {rF+ Stlth++ Curse}
(You acquired it on level 4 of the Lair of Beasts)
It protects you from fire.
It may recurse itself.
It makes you much more stealthy.
D - a +2 elven cloak (worn)
(You found it on level 8 of the Dungeon)
S - a +0 pair of boots (worn)
(You found it on level 9 of the Dungeon)
X - the +1 pair of gloves of Midsummer (worn) {Str+1}
(You found it on level 12 of the Dungeon)
It affects your strength (+1).
Y - a +0 elven robe
(You took it off Dowan on level 9 of the Dungeon)
Magical devices
e - a wand of heal wounds (4)
o - a wand of cold {zapped: 1}
(You found it on level 7 of the Lair of Beasts)
r - a wand of teleportation (2)
(You found it on level 2 of the Dungeon)
A - a wand of fireball {zapped: 2}
(You found it on level 7 of the Lair of Beasts)
J - a wand of digging {zapped: 2}
(You found it on level 7 of the Lair of Beasts)
Q - a wand of confusion {zapped: 3}
(You found it on level 6 of the Lair of Beasts)
Comestibles
f - 5 bread rations
L - a meat ration
Scrolls
c - 2 scrolls of fog
g - 2 scrolls of fear
i - 3 scrolls of remove curse
l - 2 scrolls of blinking
n - a scroll of identify
x - 3 scrolls of teleportation
y - 2 scrolls of magic mapping
Jewellery
h - an amulet of resist corrosion (around neck)
(You found it on level 13 of the Dungeon)
s - an uncursed amulet of stasis
(You found it on level 9 of the Dungeon)
t - a ring of wizardry (right hand)
(You found it on level 2 of the Dungeon)
z - an uncursed ring of flight
(You found it on level 3 of the Lair of Beasts)
C - an uncursed amulet of faith {!P}
(You found it on level 6 of the Lair of Beasts)
E - a cursed ring of magical power (left hand)
(You found it on level 6 of the Dungeon)
H - an uncursed ring of protection from cold
(You found it on level 6 of the Dungeon)
I - a +5 ring of protection
(You found it on level 8 of the Dungeon)
U - an uncursed ring of teleportation
(You found it on level 12 of the Dungeon)
W - an uncursed amulet of clarity
(You found it on level 6 of the Lair of Beasts)
Potions
j - 3 potions of resistance
k - a potion of curing
p - 3 potions of brilliance
q - 2 potions of magic
u - a potion of speed
K - 3 potions of flight
P - 2 potions of agility
T - a fuming cyan potion
V - a potion of might
Books
m - a book of Maledictions
Spells Type Level
Corona Hexes 1
Sure Blade Hexes/Charms 2
*Ensorcelled Hibernation Hexes/Ice 2
*Confuse Hexes 3
Enslavement Hexes 4
*Invisibility Hexes 6
w - a book of Party Tricks
(You found it on level 10 of the Dungeon)
Spells Type Level
*Summon Butterflies Summoning 1
*Apportation Translocation 1
*Blink Translocation 2
Alistair's Intoxication Transmutation/Poison 4
Tukima's Dance Hexes 5
F - a Young Poisoner's Handbook
(You found it on level 4 of the Lair of Beasts)
Spells Type Level
Sting Conjuration/Poison 1
Cure Poison Poison 2
Mephitic Cloud Conjuration/Poison/Air 3
Olgreb's Toxic Radiance Poison 4
Venom Bolt Conjuration/Poison 5
N - the Almanac of Vitriolic Summoning
(You found it on level 9 of the Dungeon)
Spells Type Level
*Call Imp Summoning 2
Poison Weapon Charms/Poison 3
*Abjuration Summoning 3
Call Canine Familiar Summoning 3
Olgreb's Toxic Radiance Poison 4
*Summon Demon Summoning 5
O - a book of Summonings
(You found it on level 9 of the Dungeon)
Spells Type Level
*Abjuration Summoning 3
Recall Summoning/Translocation 3
Summon Elemental Summoning 4
Shadow Creatures Summoning 5
*Summon Demon Summoning 5
Summon Ugly Thing Summoning 6
Magical staves
M - an uncursed staff of power {!a}
(You found it on level 8 of the Dungeon)
Miscellaneous
G - a lantern of shadows
(You found it on level 8 of the Lair of Beasts)
.............#...................
............#....................
............#....................
##..........#.................#..
###...................#..#.......
##.......##.#P#.P..#.#..........
###.............................
###......P##......##.#..........
###.......#..+..@................
...#........#f..........#####P...
...#......#.P...........+...#....
..........#.P...........#.#......
..........#.#.............#......
..........#.f...........#.#...<..
............#.............^......
.....#..................#.#......
.....#................#..........
There are no monsters in sight!
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You should probably stop wearing your robe of negative ring of robustness btw. Losing seven AC compared to a +2 robe is really really awful.
If I am playing an enchanter I don't personally bother with things that arent enchanter things. Here is what my HuEn ended up looking like (ignore the fact I died in Zot, I played the last couple hundred turns horrifically badly and deserved to die, was easily avoidable).
As far as summon spells go, here are my opinions (keep in mind that all my summoners hit dudes as well as summon things):
All summon spells are good but the best are: spammals, call imp, summon scorpions, shadow creatures, and XXX (and sputterflies but that's not really a summoning spell in behaviour). Summon demon is much better than summon ugly thing overall, though it helps to have abjuration just in case (you should have abjuration anyway). Summon hydra is very good against everything as long as you fight alongside it, though it's mediocre if you don't.
If you want to become DDSu against things that see invisible this is certainly fine.
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He's not going to know what XXX means. It's Summon Horrible Things, the spell that most summoners aim for at the top.
Anyway, no experience playing a DD as a summoner, but I have a lot of experience playing stabbers and transitioning into summons for Zot/endgame. DD is a weird choice since you don't gain health when your minions kill things, so you may find it difficult to heal if you're overly reliant on them. I mostly go for summoning on races like Sp because it can be tough for them to melee later on. Generally, I would suggest that you stick to Shadow Creatures/Summon Demon and go back to training more roguely and fighterly things. DD is great for a melee transition, find a good saber and train Short Blades to 14+. Also, go into Elf:1 and find yourself a buckler, get Shields to 5. The other transition you could do is Earth Magic if you have a book with Lee's Rapid Deconstruction in it, since that spell alone is enough to clear basically anything in the game.
Spells to look for: Control Teleport, Passwall, Dig, Passage of Golubria, Silence, Repel Missiles. Would probably not bother with Haste at this point for a 3-rune win.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Thanks for the advice, guys. I'll get Summon Demon's spell power up a bit and focus on stabbing and short blades.
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Ugh, I just lost 2 out of my last 3 characters because of being sent to the abyss at a low level.
Honestly, I feel like like the Abyss is a horrible, horrible mechanic considering how early in the game it's possible for you to be sent there. It's basically a death sentence with no recourse. Like, you could run into Erolcha at D:6 or something and get sent to the abyss.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
I try to just avoid abyss-capable enemies until i'm fairly confident i can beat them. I usually dive past or otherwise avoid like 30-40% of uniques as well as things like early ogres. It doesn't always work but like this always reminds me of how to play crawl:
Wenzell> gastronok[8/8]: <mikee_> you can 'kill' gastronok by walking out of his los
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It's not that simple. Unless you're a Spriggan, it may not be possible to walk out of the LOS of Erolcha without expending a lot of turns. My character saw Erolcha and then was sent to the Abyss only 14 turns later. Unless a staircase just happens to be nearby, there was literally nothing I could have done.
That's crap design.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Well I mean sometimes you enter the dungeon and there's 3 jackals in your vision too. With Erolcha, unless you're near a corner yes there's a chance of being banished-- but RNG is an element of crawl. Erolcha is one of those great reminders that crawl is a game that tries to kill you
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If it was 14 turns later then you had plenty of time to get out of LOS (you had no teleport? no blinking? no corners?) unless you are a naga with few consumables, or if you worshipped chei with few consumables. But in those cases you have better-than-usual stealth, which is also helpful.
Sometimes you get abyssed the first turn you see Erolcha. If that happens, just pretend that she used LCS instead and one-hit-killed you, since that can happen also.
I mean I agree the abyss has lots of design problems (like liquids) but I almost never get sent to the abyss unless I know I am doing something that is likely to get me sent there.
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Nah, it was one of those open area level designs. Perma-LOS.
But even if I made a mistake in the encounter, it's beside the point. The point is, the Abyss is basically a death sentence for most characters until you're very prepared. And there is significant overlap of the time where it's fairly easy to be sent to the Abyss and time where your character is not capable of surviving it.
It's not comparable to something like being damaged because there is common means of damage mitigation in the game. For the Abyss, the only mitigation is if you happen to have rings/robes of magic resistance and even that might not be enough, especially if you get zapped as soon as you get into LOS. Sure, there are monsters that can one-shot you with damage spells, but it's unclear to me whether that's a good design decision either.
If there was some kind of after-the-fact mitigation, like a scroll/potion of abyss escape or some crap like that (which I think would be dumb) then the current Abyss mechanics might be tolerable.
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There is some after-the-fact mitigation, though it depends on finding a lugonu altar.
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On November 15 2012 03:14 Blazinghand wrote:
Thanks for the advice, guys. I'll get Summon Demon's spell power up a bit and focus on stabbing and short blades.
Worth noting that Stabbing doesn't need to be super high to be effective. If you're trying to kill sleepers, Stealth is better to focus on, and if you're stabbing with Invis or Confuse then you're usually better off focusing on Short Blades and Dodging. DD's don't have a very good Stabbing aptitude so I probably would leave it at 11 until you're deep in Vaults or so.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On November 15 2012 08:54 Cel.erity wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 03:14 Blazinghand wrote:
Thanks for the advice, guys. I'll get Summon Demon's spell power up a bit and focus on stabbing and short blades. Worth noting that Stabbing doesn't need to be super high to be effective. If you're trying to kill sleepers, Stealth is better to focus on, and if you're stabbing with Invis or Confuse then you're usually better off focusing on Short Blades and Dodging. DD's don't have a very good Stabbing aptitude so I probably would leave it at 11 until you're deep in Vaults or so.
Thanks for the advice, but I ended up dying about an hour ago  got quite far, though. I opened up a vault full of demons and they busted me up pretty bad. It was a good run, though-- I think I might try a DDen again but focus more on physical combat rather than getting summons.
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Brunei Darussalam622 Posts
I have no idea how to use Fedhas. I know you can use fruit to activate his abilities, but whenever I try it keeps draining piety.
How do I use fruit instead of eating it? I'm on tiles interface, btw.
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Growing plants and turning them into oklobs costs fruit while the other abilities just cost piety. You can sometimes get free plants with rain invocs, too. I think it's all controlled in the (a)bilities menu.
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How2Fedhas: make mushrooms, use them to get a free pass past the hard part of the game, then do whatever.
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EPT
