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On October 21 2011 22:49 Judicator wrote:
No point to Hands and Vatmothers actually win games. They can trade with your Hands and if he's not swinging wtf is the point.
Why run Tributes in mono-black? Just play Geth's, you might drag out a counterspell on their turn to stick a Whispering Spectre on your turn 3.
HOTP gets damage out faster in the sense that it boosts your current field, which would end up as a faster kill and a more immediate threat. Vatmother sits there for a turn before doing anything.
I guess I ran tributes because the -1 health from verdict wont do anything in an infect deck. In all honestly I think the real answer might just be that I don't have any.(I have next to no cards from NPH) Against a non-infect opponent though tribute would do better if I use other removal on their weaker creatures.
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Hey guys, can anyone give me any tips on my deck? I already had a bunch of cards from my knights tribal deck. So I just took them and made a mono white humans. I know I still need a few ghost quarters, but besides that I'm not sure what I should add/remove
3 Angelic Destiny
4 Champion of the Parish
4 Elite Inquisitors
4 Elite Vanguards
1 Ghost quarter
3 Gideon's Lawkeepers
3 Grand Abolisher
3 Hero of Bladehold
4 Mentor of the Meek
4 Mirran Crusader
4 Oblivion Ring
23 plains
Sideboard
4 Apostle's Blessing
4 Nihil Spellbomb
4 Revoke Existence
3 Stony Silence
I know it will never be very competitive because I want to be mono white, but I like the deck to be as good as it can be all the same 
EDIT: Also Is mentor of the meek useless? I been finding the card pretty underwhelming honestly. I'm running a aggro deck with a butt load of 1 and 2 drops. By the time Mentor hits the table my hands empty most of the time already and I'm running in top deck mode. Its nice if i top deck something, but if i draw like back to back lands I'm screwed. Should I hold cards back till I drop mentor and then flood the table?
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On October 21 2011 23:29 dignity wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2011 22:49 Judicator wrote:
No point to Hands and Vatmothers actually win games. They can trade with your Hands and if he's not swinging wtf is the point.
Why run Tributes in mono-black? Just play Geth's, you might drag out a counterspell on their turn to stick a Whispering Spectre on your turn 3. HOTP gets damage out faster in the sense that it boosts your current field, which would end up as a faster kill and a more immediate threat. Vatmother sits there for a turn before doing anything. I guess I ran tributes because the -1 health from verdict wont do anything in an infect deck. In all honestly I think the real answer might just be that I don't have any.(I have next to no cards from NPH) Against a non-infect opponent though tribute would do better if I use other removal on their weaker creatures.
? That is not how the MBI plays at all...Try it with Hands over Vatmothers and you'll see the apparent difference.
? To Tributes vs. Geth, 3 mana is a big difference compared to 2 mana in that deck. What exactly are you answering with Tribute?
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+ Show Spoiler +On October 22 2011 00:21 InToTheWannaB wrote:Hey guys, can anyone give me any tips on my deck? I already had a bunch of cards from my knights tribal deck. So I just took them and made a mono white humans. I know I still need a few ghost quarters, but besides that I'm not sure what I should add/remove 3 Angelic Destiny 4 Champion of the Parish 4 Elite Inquisitors 4 Elite Vanguards 1 Ghost quarter 3 Gideon's Lawkeepers 3 Grand Abolisher 3 Hero of Bladehold 4 Mentor of the Meek 4 Mirran Crusader 4 Oblivion Ring 23 plains Sideboard 4 Apostle's Blessing 4 Nihil Spellbomb 4 Revoke Existence 3 Stony Silence I know it will never be very competitive because I want to be mono white, but I like the deck to be as good as it can be all the same EDIT: Also Is mentor of the meek useless? I been finding the card pretty underwhelming honestly. I'm running a aggro deck with a butt load of 1 and 2 drops. By the time Mentor hits the table my hands empty most of the time already and I'm running in top deck mode. Its nice if i top deck something, but if i draw like back to back lands I'm screwed. Should I hold cards back till I drop mentor and then flood the table?
i would take a good look at this decklist. its very very strong
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=932124
honestly if you look at your deck, it does not have many human synergies aside from champion of the parish. the above deck focuses more on angelic destiny.
if you really want to pursue humans, i believe the humans decks are more GW with hamlet captain and mayor. something like this
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=933137
if you really want to make monowhite i would at least consider adding adaptive automaton and honor of the pure. also ghost quarters are kinda meh in an aggro deck.
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@bumatlarge
+ Show Spoiler +
lol I haven't played mafia in too long, I should start that again.
I think I will head out to FNM tonight, but most likely I will not be able to pick up enough grimgrins/skithiryx's to make the deck so I might have to run something else. Over the weekend we should test it out on cockatrice, send me a pm when you want to play - username MisterDespair
I think if I had the cards the deck would be:
1x doom blade
2x GftT
2x spellskite
4x leak
2x looter
1x scholar
3x lilliana
4x alchemy
2x souleater
4x ooze
3x keeper
3x grimgrin
2x unburial
2x skithiryx
1x BSZ
4x isolated chapel
4x darkslick shores
4x drowned catacombs
2x glacial fortress
3x nephilia drownyard
2x island
5x swamp
board
3x misstep
3x negate
3x nihil spellbomb
2x spellskite
2x BSZ
2x doomblade
else you can change the unburial for despise/image if not unburial, i think there are still enough black sources to reasonable get out lilliana. There are still many cards I want to include - visions, despise, image, more spellskites, jace even, but I don't know what to cut.
Misstep hits champion, doomed traveler, lawkeeper,?
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is there a reason why you guys are running more looters than scholars? isnt the whole point to use ooze+scholar to dump a bunch of shit in your yard and sift through your deck all at once?
i guess now that i look at it you dont have that many creatures to turn on scholar. but still considering you just want all your creatures in the GY scholar still seems better.
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On October 22 2011 02:49 Orpheos wrote:
is there a reason why you guys are running more looters than scholars? isnt the whole point to use ooze+scholar to dump a bunch of shit in your yard and sift through your deck all at once?
i guess now that i look at it you dont have that many creatures to turn on scholar. but still considering you just want all your creatures in the GY scholar still seems better.
I played against this deck last night, it is quite fun to have the guy lose, by accidentally selecting the merfolk looters ability instead of the scholars. I like the deck style though it is wild.
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On October 21 2011 22:57 Orpheos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2011 13:12 slyboogie wrote:On October 21 2011 13:00 bumatlarge wrote:It doesn't target itself with an ability? I assumed it did, but now that you say it, no one of those abilities say target... well then scratch what I said. Yeah, assumptions are cool Right, I believe it has to literally say "target." "Gaining" an ability isn't a targeting mechanism, I think. Magic has wonky rules. Did you know that if you Journey to Nowhere a morphed card and then the Journey gets Naturalized, that the morphed card comes back face up? Weird. magic really doesnt have wonky rules until you get into layering(humility or a recent example at states is inkmoth+tezzeret interaction). you really just go with what is simplest/most by-the-text interpretation. i think its that too many people try to make "intuitive" assumptions(like your journey example).
Simplest and intuitive should be, either, the same thing or very close. Magic has enough nuance that it isn't always the case. The rules are pretty elegant, I'll admit, but a game with so many cards and interactions will always have issues. I don't think the exiled-faced down morph creature coming back face up is simple at all. It only happened during a random cube draft but no one had any idea until the judge overheard us talking.
Another example is damage on the stack and damage happening concurrently. It could, and has!, worked both ways, and that's wonky.
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Good luck DC, tell us how you do!
On October 22 2011 02:49 Orpheos wrote:
is there a reason why you guys are running more looters than scholars? isnt the whole point to use ooze+scholar to dump a bunch of shit in your yard and sift through your deck all at once?
i guess now that i look at it you dont have that many creatures to turn on scholar. but still considering you just want all your creatures in the GY scholar still seems better.
I like running 3 scholars, and if there is no dumpable creature, then we want scholar to become looter to discard our useless shit and draw our deck faster. My arguement is, that until our opponent deals with the looter, we will eventually draw a creature to throw in our a graveyard, which gives the scholar immense value when the opponent has to do waste at least a card to deal with it. DC likes the curve and merfolk does the job really well for 2 mana, and you might not have more then 1 creature you want to discard, if scholar is in the graveyard and ooze is on the field, and usually if you drew a looter, it's still on the field with your ooze.
Plus scholar is a new card looter is not! By rule of thumb you have to use scholar!
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On October 22 2011 01:15 Judicator wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2011 23:29 dignity wrote:On October 21 2011 22:49 Judicator wrote:
No point to Hands and Vatmothers actually win games. They can trade with your Hands and if he's not swinging wtf is the point.
Why run Tributes in mono-black? Just play Geth's, you might drag out a counterspell on their turn to stick a Whispering Spectre on your turn 3. HOTP gets damage out faster in the sense that it boosts your current field, which would end up as a faster kill and a more immediate threat. Vatmother sits there for a turn before doing anything. I guess I ran tributes because the -1 health from verdict wont do anything in an infect deck. In all honestly I think the real answer might just be that I don't have any.(I have next to no cards from NPH) Against a non-infect opponent though tribute would do better if I use other removal on their weaker creatures. ? That is not how the MBI plays at all...Try it with Hands over Vatmothers and you'll see the apparent difference. ? To Tributes vs. Geth, 3 mana is a big difference compared to 2 mana in that deck. What exactly are you answering with Tribute?
I found that against an aggro deck it just becomes a death race in which you just survive until turn 4 lashwrithe kill them with that. You have an advantage in death race scenarios because of removal. Neither vatmother or hand would be fit to sideboard in the scenario.
Against control wouldn't you want to straight up kill them before they can retaliate?
The way I see the deck being played out right now you are essentially aggro while at the same time removing any answer they have to your aggression, which results in you being able to kill them. Unless I am completely mistaken that should be the way this deck works?
Also, thoughts on livewire lash and mutagenic growths in the deck, or would that be overly ambitious?
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On October 22 2011 03:53 dignity wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 01:15 Judicator wrote:On October 21 2011 23:29 dignity wrote:On October 21 2011 22:49 Judicator wrote:
No point to Hands and Vatmothers actually win games. They can trade with your Hands and if he's not swinging wtf is the point.
Why run Tributes in mono-black? Just play Geth's, you might drag out a counterspell on their turn to stick a Whispering Spectre on your turn 3. HOTP gets damage out faster in the sense that it boosts your current field, which would end up as a faster kill and a more immediate threat. Vatmother sits there for a turn before doing anything. I guess I ran tributes because the -1 health from verdict wont do anything in an infect deck. In all honestly I think the real answer might just be that I don't have any.(I have next to no cards from NPH) Against a non-infect opponent though tribute would do better if I use other removal on their weaker creatures. ? That is not how the MBI plays at all...Try it with Hands over Vatmothers and you'll see the apparent difference. ? To Tributes vs. Geth, 3 mana is a big difference compared to 2 mana in that deck. What exactly are you answering with Tribute? I found that against an aggro deck it just becomes a death race in which you just survive until turn 4 lashwrithe kill them with that. You have an advantage in death race scenarios because of removal. Neither vatmother or hand would be fit to sideboard in the scenario. Against control wouldn't you want to straight up kill them before they can retaliate? The way I see the deck being played out right now you are essentially aggro while at the same time removing any answer they have to your aggression, which results in you being able to kill them. Unless I am completely mistaken that should be the way this deck works? Also, thoughts on livewire lash and mutagenic growths in the deck, or would that be overly ambitious?
You are not aggro...Vatmother wins in 2 turns most of the time and why would you want to play a 2 toughness guy against aggro over a 5 toughness guy on turn 4?
Edit:
I don't want to single you out, but that post is one of the reasons why Valakut was such a popular deck in the last T2 format despite only having only one real win by Ben Stark.
MBI isn't an aggro deck, it doesn't just randomly win with Lashwrithe but it's a legitimate threat when you have X amount of Swamps out with an Infect creature out on the field. When I said that the MBI player I played against played a very tight game, I wasn't saying taking that lightly. I misread his deck in game 1, essentially timewalked him on his turn, twice and still lost. Game 2 despite me complaining about double Distress (first of which was met with a Leak), he still won because he literally put me at exactly 1 out when he won (which was a Day).
If he played loose with me at all, like deciding to trade a Crusader or not sacked his Whispering Spectre in any of those games, he loses. That deck isn't mindless infect deck (yes the other infect decks are mindless) but rather a very good control.
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Hand would boost the damage of whatever infect creatures you have on the field already, which means you can put potentially lethal damage on the turn it was played. It is a weaker lashwrithe in this sense. Vatmother can and probably will be chumped and is also not immediate damage. The toughness would not really matter unless they are playing red, which you would not probably side either in anyways.
Edit:
Thoughts on after reading your edit. This deck is actually somewhat interesting because you can play both aggro and control. You actually can keep pace with other aggro decks and control as well as other control decks.
Indeed you do not want to sacrifice and trade creatures in this deck. I played infect decks enough to learn that you absolutely need to keep your creatures alive as long as possible. You, however, are still an aggro deck in the sense that you also want to try and kill them as fast as possible. The thing I found about infect decks is that you actually start losing your infect advantage the more cards they have, which puts you on an invisible clock. Main reason being you do not truly have a late game killer, which I guess the vatmother would fill that void. Hand, though, can also turn your creatures into pingers which might be all you need to finish the game.
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On October 22 2011 02:59 slyboogie wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2011 22:57 Orpheos wrote:On October 21 2011 13:12 slyboogie wrote:On October 21 2011 13:00 bumatlarge wrote:It doesn't target itself with an ability? I assumed it did, but now that you say it, no one of those abilities say target... well then scratch what I said. Yeah, assumptions are cool Right, I believe it has to literally say "target." "Gaining" an ability isn't a targeting mechanism, I think. Magic has wonky rules. Did you know that if you Journey to Nowhere a morphed card and then the Journey gets Naturalized, that the morphed card comes back face up? Weird. magic really doesnt have wonky rules until you get into layering(humility or a recent example at states is inkmoth+tezzeret interaction). you really just go with what is simplest/most by-the-text interpretation. i think its that too many people try to make "intuitive" assumptions(like your journey example). Simplest and intuitive should be, either, the same thing or very close. Magic has enough nuance that it isn't always the case. The rules are pretty elegant, I'll admit, but a game with so many cards and interactions will always have issues. I don't think the exiled-faced down morph creature coming back face up is simple at all. It only happened during a random cube draft but no one had any idea until the judge overheard us talking. Another example is damage on the stack and damage happening concurrently. It could, and has!, worked both ways, and that's wonky.
okay intuitive is more in the sense of intuitive flavor-wise. so for journey you are thinking it phases it out and makes it come back in when it dies. intuitively it should bring it back the same way as it went out. but simple is that in ALL cases, the game does not save any of this kind of stuff. so any blinking effect will always put it back into play in its default state. no exceptions. super simple.
I also gave a good example about +1/+1 counters. you dont think those should stay on so why should morph status stay on?
damage stacking was admittedly wonky and that is why they removed it.
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On October 22 2011 04:25 dignity wrote:
Hand would boost the damage of whatever infect creatures you have on the field already, which means you can put potentially lethal damage on the turn it was played. It is a weaker lashwrithe in this sense. Vatmother can and probably will be chumped and is also not immediate damage. The toughness would not really matter unless they are playing red, which you would not probably side either in anyways.
You would actually side in Mother against Red since you have 0 ways of interacting with Shrine.
Vathmother being chumped is fine? You're not in some super race to win unless you are that behind. The toughness matters because Hand dies to a Viridian Emissary and a bunch of other 2 power creatures that can come down at 2.
It's also not a weaker Lashwrithe.
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On October 22 2011 04:38 Judicator wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 04:25 dignity wrote:
Hand would boost the damage of whatever infect creatures you have on the field already, which means you can put potentially lethal damage on the turn it was played. It is a weaker lashwrithe in this sense. Vatmother can and probably will be chumped and is also not immediate damage. The toughness would not really matter unless they are playing red, which you would not probably side either in anyways. You would actually side in Mother against Red since you have 0 ways of interacting with Shrine. Vathmother being chumped is fine? You're not in some super race to win unless you are that behind. The toughness matters because Hand dies to a Viridian Emissary and a bunch of other 2 power creatures that can come down at 2. It's also not a weaker Lashwrithe.
put it this way, adding one power is much different than making your dude two or one shot them.
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Should take not of the creature count in that deck before attempting to add lords.
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On October 22 2011 04:32 Orpheos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 02:59 slyboogie wrote:On October 21 2011 22:57 Orpheos wrote:On October 21 2011 13:12 slyboogie wrote:On October 21 2011 13:00 bumatlarge wrote:It doesn't target itself with an ability? I assumed it did, but now that you say it, no one of those abilities say target... well then scratch what I said. Yeah, assumptions are cool Right, I believe it has to literally say "target." "Gaining" an ability isn't a targeting mechanism, I think. Magic has wonky rules. Did you know that if you Journey to Nowhere a morphed card and then the Journey gets Naturalized, that the morphed card comes back face up? Weird. magic really doesnt have wonky rules until you get into layering(humility or a recent example at states is inkmoth+tezzeret interaction). you really just go with what is simplest/most by-the-text interpretation. i think its that too many people try to make "intuitive" assumptions(like your journey example). Simplest and intuitive should be, either, the same thing or very close. Magic has enough nuance that it isn't always the case. The rules are pretty elegant, I'll admit, but a game with so many cards and interactions will always have issues. I don't think the exiled-faced down morph creature coming back face up is simple at all. It only happened during a random cube draft but no one had any idea until the judge overheard us talking. Another example is damage on the stack and damage happening concurrently. It could, and has!, worked both ways, and that's wonky. okay intuitive is more in the sense of intuitive flavor-wise. so for journey you are thinking it phases it out and makes it come back in when it dies. intuitively it should bring it back the same way as it went out. but simple is that in ALL cases, the game does not save any of this kind of stuff. so any blinking effect will always put it back into play in its default state. no exceptions. super simple. I also gave a good example about +1/+1 counters. you dont think those should stay on so why should morph status stay on? damage stacking was admittedly wonky and that is why they removed it.
Dunno, depends how you look at the Morph mechanic. 3 colorless for a 2/2 and it is still a card. That's important! It isn't like a token. Which brings me to another point, exiling tokens just makes them poof forever. Why? I mean, if it's just the rule, then I accept it, I mean, I already accept it. But the reason why unsummoned tokens and exiled tokens don't come back is because Wizards doesn't want to deal with the lack of a card. That's fine for pragmatic purposes but you have to know the nuance of it, it isn't something that you just sit down and know.
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Got meself a green deck ^_^
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On October 22 2011 08:23 John Madden wrote:
Got meself a green deck ^_^
Probably not the one you have, but the funniest one I've seen lately played something like:
4x Birds
4x Elves
4x Pligrims
4x Emissaries
4x Essence of the Wild
3x Primeval Titan
3x Garruk Relentless
Just straight up mono green make huge guys kill face deck. Looks fun 
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Just went 3-1 during fnm facing a solar flare deck, RDW, kuldotha goblins, and a hexblade deck. You were completely right about the deck not being able handle shrines. The only deck I lost to was RDW. Granted, I was mana screwed during the third game but at best that matchup is a coinflip in the form of a literal turn 5 deathrace.
I am now completely in agreement that vatmothers are superior for the deck. Hand is just too much of a win-more card and will do nothing if you have no creatures. I will say though, I found tribute to be much better than geth's verdicts. The reason being is mostly because of the life gained. In a deck where you run quite a few cards with possible phyrexian mana costs (and in the case of tezzys gambits, you must pay life for them) the life gain will save your life and make it not as much of a strain. I just had to be vigilant with removing his small things so I can hit my targets properly with the tributes. I actually went down to win with 1 life in 2 games.
On a final note, The solar flare deck I played simply died the second I try to race him. I did not even have to go down the route of trying to win the control battle.
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EPT
