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The giant also chooses the target before the effect goes off. He comes in, you roll the dice, target chosen, then it goes on the stack. Otoh, look at skull rend. Deals damage, then they discard 2 cards at random. The cards that are discarded dont get picked until the spell resolves because its resolution is independent of the choice. Scab clan giant has to target something to fight, so if there are no opposing creatures, the ability doesnt happen.
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On October 18 2013 01:35 woreyour wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2013 01:16 Cel.erity wrote:On October 17 2013 23:42 woreyour wrote:On October 17 2013 22:09 Cel.erity wrote:On October 17 2013 18:36 woreyour wrote:On October 17 2013 02:53 MoonBear wrote:On October 16 2013 01:40 woreyour wrote:
so if this is the case then it makes it really good
so let me just make sure im doing it correctly with examples.
I have a battlewise hoplite (ready to attack), then I pop hiddenstings, targeting him to be untapped even if he is already untapped triggering his heroics making him 3/3. Encode it to him. Then probably tap opponent's blocker to make sure I can deal guaranteed damage to him.
Then it would trigger another hiddenstrings (free) which again I target another permanent and again my hoplite to untap him and trigger another heroic making him 4/4? but damage taken by opponent is only 3?
Am i correct? It is impossible for you to hit your opponent with a 4/4 Battlewise Hoplite and also tap your opponent's creature at the same time. Lemme break down how this will happen at every stage so there's no confusion. - You cast Hidden Strings. Hidden Strings is now on the stack.
- Both players are assumed to pass priority.
- Hidden Strings will now resolve. At this point you must choose targets for the spell. You target your Battlewise Hoplite and your opponent's creature. (We are going to assume your opponent's creature is a legal target, so no Shroud etc.)
- Battlewise Hoplite "sees" that you've targeted it with a spell or ability. Its Heroic ability triggers. This will be placed on the stack when a player next receives priority. However, your Hidden Strings is still resolving so it does not exist on the stack yet. Only one trigger is activated.
- We continue resolving Hidden Strings.Your Battlewise Hoplite is now untapped and your opponent's creature is now tapped.
- Now that the main text on Hidden Strings has resolved, we now have to resolve the Cipher component of the card.
- From 702.98 of the Comprehensive Rules, Cipher states that:
702.98a Cipher appears on some instants and sorceries. It represents two static abilities, one that functions while the spell is on the stack and one that functions while the card with cipher is in the exile zone. "Cipher" means "If this spell is represented by a card, you may exile this card encoded on a creature you control" and "As long as this card is encoded on that creature, that creature has 'Whenever this creature deals combat damage to a player, you may copy this card and you may cast the copy without paying its mana cost.'"
702.98b The term "encoded" describes the relationship between the card with cipher while in the exile zone and the creature chosen when the spell represented by that card resolves.
702.98c The card with cipher remains encoded on the chosen creature as long as the card with cipher remains exiled and the creature remains on the battlefield. The card remains encoded on that object even if it changes controller or stops being a creature, as long as it remains on the battlefield.
- This means Cypher does NOT target. At all.
- We Encode Hidden Strings on the Battlewise Hoplite. Exile Hidden Strings.
- Hidden Strings has now finished resolving.
- The Active Player (you in this case because it is your turn) now receives Priority.
- Battlewise Hoplite's Heroic ability is placed on the stack. Remember, only 1 trigger has been activated.
- We assume both players now pass Priority.
- The trigger now resolves. Battlewise Hoplite now gains a +1/+1 counter.
- Next, you Scry 1.
- Battlewise Hoplite's Heroic trigger has now finished resolving. It is now a 3/3 creature.
- We assume there are no Blocks and no further spells cast.
- Combat Damage is now dealt. Battlewise Hoplite deals 3 combat damage to your opponent.
- The Encoded Hidden Strings on Battlewise Hoplite now triggers and is placed on the stack.
- We assume there are no other triggered abilities. Now that all triggered abilities have been placed on the stack the Active Player receives Priority.
- Resolve the encoded Hidden Strings that has been cast from exile.
- You may now tap or untap target permanent, then tap or untap another target permanent again. If you choose to target Battlewise Hoplite you'll have all those triggers again.
- Once everything has resolved, move to End of Combat Phase.
this is great!, thanks for this step by step explanation. now me and my friend could stop arguing and he can cry how OP this can be :D Again, this explanation is in no way accurate. There is a lot wrong with it. If you want to know the actual steps of how spells and triggers are placed on the stack from Heroic, refer to my earlier posts, because it's kind of annoying having to repeat myself five times answering one question. It is true that you can get a 4/4 vigilant Hoplite at the end of the day, though. And please, if you're going to answer rules questions with answers that contradict those previously given in the thread, make sure you're right, or edit your posts appropriately. It's harmful to the newer players who come across bad information and start playing incorrectly. thanks too for your input, I read your post as well but I guess his steps 1-4 are correct (again not too technical and would be glad if this gets disected if it iswrong), why? because u mentioned that right after hidden strings gets cast, you say heroics gets into the stack right after which i believe is wrong, why? because you can counter hidden strings which means in order to do that players must have the stack passing priority 1st. yes after all, i just want to make sure at the end of the day I get to have my 4/4 vigilant hopelite with 2 scrys, 3 damage and another tap and untap. I also was happy about the steps that he gave and reference as it was clear to explain to my friend and I am happy for the others to discuss it as well (gotta love 2nd opinions). The replicate one I think would not work since the 2nd and so forth instances/copies are not cast but duplicated only, the 1st I think should trigger heroics. Heroic does go on the stack on top of the spell. It's just like any other ability that triggers on a spell cast, it goes on the stack immediately when you announce Hidden Strings and choose its targets, and so it will resolve first as per LIFO (last in first out). Targets are ALWAYS chosen upon casting a spell, not upon resolving it (inb4 someone points out an exception, but I can't think of one offhand). This is basic rules stuff that you need to know. Of course you can counter Hidden Strings, but you'll be doing it after the Heroic ability has already gone on the stack.The other important thing you should remember is that spells resolve all of their text simultaneously. There is no time for stuff to go on the stack while a spell is resolving, and spells do not have multiple parts to their resolution. It's always very simply: 1. Pay the mana cost/announce targets, now you've cast the spell. 2. Stuff that triggers from casting spells/targeting stuff goes on the stack. 3. Players pass priority, the triggers resolve. 4. Players pass priority again, the spell resolves. And of course it's possible for the effects of the spell to trigger other things, but that's not happening in our example. Again: 1. You pay for Hidden Strings and announce its targets. 2. Choosing Hoplite as a target triggers Heroic, which goes on the stack above Hidden Strings itself. 3. Now you and your opponent have priority, eventually you both pass and Heroic resolves. 4. Pass again, Hidden Strings resolves. You now choose whether you want to tap or untap each of the two targets, because that's a choice, and choices are made on resolution. It's not that complicated, really. so if the heroic ability should auto trigger since it met requirements of being targeted by your spell and automatically goes to stack, would the heroic effect resolve regardless if you counter hidden strings? 3/3 hoplite regardless?
Yup
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On October 18 2013 01:35 woreyour wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2013 01:16 Cel.erity wrote:On October 17 2013 23:42 woreyour wrote:On October 17 2013 22:09 Cel.erity wrote:On October 17 2013 18:36 woreyour wrote:On October 17 2013 02:53 MoonBear wrote:On October 16 2013 01:40 woreyour wrote:
so if this is the case then it makes it really good
so let me just make sure im doing it correctly with examples.
I have a battlewise hoplite (ready to attack), then I pop hiddenstings, targeting him to be untapped even if he is already untapped triggering his heroics making him 3/3. Encode it to him. Then probably tap opponent's blocker to make sure I can deal guaranteed damage to him.
Then it would trigger another hiddenstrings (free) which again I target another permanent and again my hoplite to untap him and trigger another heroic making him 4/4? but damage taken by opponent is only 3?
Am i correct? It is impossible for you to hit your opponent with a 4/4 Battlewise Hoplite and also tap your opponent's creature at the same time. Lemme break down how this will happen at every stage so there's no confusion. - You cast Hidden Strings. Hidden Strings is now on the stack.
- Both players are assumed to pass priority.
- Hidden Strings will now resolve. At this point you must choose targets for the spell. You target your Battlewise Hoplite and your opponent's creature. (We are going to assume your opponent's creature is a legal target, so no Shroud etc.)
- Battlewise Hoplite "sees" that you've targeted it with a spell or ability. Its Heroic ability triggers. This will be placed on the stack when a player next receives priority. However, your Hidden Strings is still resolving so it does not exist on the stack yet. Only one trigger is activated.
- We continue resolving Hidden Strings.Your Battlewise Hoplite is now untapped and your opponent's creature is now tapped.
- Now that the main text on Hidden Strings has resolved, we now have to resolve the Cipher component of the card.
- From 702.98 of the Comprehensive Rules, Cipher states that:
702.98a Cipher appears on some instants and sorceries. It represents two static abilities, one that functions while the spell is on the stack and one that functions while the card with cipher is in the exile zone. "Cipher" means "If this spell is represented by a card, you may exile this card encoded on a creature you control" and "As long as this card is encoded on that creature, that creature has 'Whenever this creature deals combat damage to a player, you may copy this card and you may cast the copy without paying its mana cost.'"
702.98b The term "encoded" describes the relationship between the card with cipher while in the exile zone and the creature chosen when the spell represented by that card resolves.
702.98c The card with cipher remains encoded on the chosen creature as long as the card with cipher remains exiled and the creature remains on the battlefield. The card remains encoded on that object even if it changes controller or stops being a creature, as long as it remains on the battlefield.
- This means Cypher does NOT target. At all.
- We Encode Hidden Strings on the Battlewise Hoplite. Exile Hidden Strings.
- Hidden Strings has now finished resolving.
- The Active Player (you in this case because it is your turn) now receives Priority.
- Battlewise Hoplite's Heroic ability is placed on the stack. Remember, only 1 trigger has been activated.
- We assume both players now pass Priority.
- The trigger now resolves. Battlewise Hoplite now gains a +1/+1 counter.
- Next, you Scry 1.
- Battlewise Hoplite's Heroic trigger has now finished resolving. It is now a 3/3 creature.
- We assume there are no Blocks and no further spells cast.
- Combat Damage is now dealt. Battlewise Hoplite deals 3 combat damage to your opponent.
- The Encoded Hidden Strings on Battlewise Hoplite now triggers and is placed on the stack.
- We assume there are no other triggered abilities. Now that all triggered abilities have been placed on the stack the Active Player receives Priority.
- Resolve the encoded Hidden Strings that has been cast from exile.
- You may now tap or untap target permanent, then tap or untap another target permanent again. If you choose to target Battlewise Hoplite you'll have all those triggers again.
- Once everything has resolved, move to End of Combat Phase.
this is great!, thanks for this step by step explanation. now me and my friend could stop arguing and he can cry how OP this can be :D Again, this explanation is in no way accurate. There is a lot wrong with it. If you want to know the actual steps of how spells and triggers are placed on the stack from Heroic, refer to my earlier posts, because it's kind of annoying having to repeat myself five times answering one question. It is true that you can get a 4/4 vigilant Hoplite at the end of the day, though. And please, if you're going to answer rules questions with answers that contradict those previously given in the thread, make sure you're right, or edit your posts appropriately. It's harmful to the newer players who come across bad information and start playing incorrectly. thanks too for your input, I read your post as well but I guess his steps 1-4 are correct (again not too technical and would be glad if this gets disected if it iswrong), why? because u mentioned that right after hidden strings gets cast, you say heroics gets into the stack right after which i believe is wrong, why? because you can counter hidden strings which means in order to do that players must have the stack passing priority 1st. yes after all, i just want to make sure at the end of the day I get to have my 4/4 vigilant hopelite with 2 scrys, 3 damage and another tap and untap. I also was happy about the steps that he gave and reference as it was clear to explain to my friend and I am happy for the others to discuss it as well (gotta love 2nd opinions). The replicate one I think would not work since the 2nd and so forth instances/copies are not cast but duplicated only, the 1st I think should trigger heroics. Heroic does go on the stack on top of the spell. It's just like any other ability that triggers on a spell cast, it goes on the stack immediately when you announce Hidden Strings and choose its targets, and so it will resolve first as per LIFO (last in first out). Targets are ALWAYS chosen upon casting a spell, not upon resolving it (inb4 someone points out an exception, but I can't think of one offhand). This is basic rules stuff that you need to know. Of course you can counter Hidden Strings, but you'll be doing it after the Heroic ability has already gone on the stack.The other important thing you should remember is that spells resolve all of their text simultaneously. There is no time for stuff to go on the stack while a spell is resolving, and spells do not have multiple parts to their resolution. It's always very simply: 1. Pay the mana cost/announce targets, now you've cast the spell. 2. Stuff that triggers from casting spells/targeting stuff goes on the stack. 3. Players pass priority, the triggers resolve. 4. Players pass priority again, the spell resolves. And of course it's possible for the effects of the spell to trigger other things, but that's not happening in our example. Again: 1. You pay for Hidden Strings and announce its targets. 2. Choosing Hoplite as a target triggers Heroic, which goes on the stack above Hidden Strings itself. 3. Now you and your opponent have priority, eventually you both pass and Heroic resolves. 4. Pass again, Hidden Strings resolves. You now choose whether you want to tap or untap each of the two targets, because that's a choice, and choices are made on resolution. It's not that complicated, really. so if the heroic ability should auto trigger since it met requirements of being targeted by your spell and automatically goes to stack, would the heroic effect resolve regardless if you counter hidden strings? 3/3 hoplite regardless?
Yes. As soon as you cast the spell Heroic triggers and gos on the stack. Your opponent then receives priority and can counter spell but since the Heroic ability is already on the stack it will always resolve regardless of counter magic.
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On October 18 2013 01:35 woreyour wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2013 01:16 Cel.erity wrote:On October 17 2013 23:42 woreyour wrote:On October 17 2013 22:09 Cel.erity wrote:On October 17 2013 18:36 woreyour wrote:On October 17 2013 02:53 MoonBear wrote:On October 16 2013 01:40 woreyour wrote:
so if this is the case then it makes it really good
so let me just make sure im doing it correctly with examples.
I have a battlewise hoplite (ready to attack), then I pop hiddenstings, targeting him to be untapped even if he is already untapped triggering his heroics making him 3/3. Encode it to him. Then probably tap opponent's blocker to make sure I can deal guaranteed damage to him.
Then it would trigger another hiddenstrings (free) which again I target another permanent and again my hoplite to untap him and trigger another heroic making him 4/4? but damage taken by opponent is only 3?
Am i correct? It is impossible for you to hit your opponent with a 4/4 Battlewise Hoplite and also tap your opponent's creature at the same time. Lemme break down how this will happen at every stage so there's no confusion. - You cast Hidden Strings. Hidden Strings is now on the stack.
- Both players are assumed to pass priority.
- Hidden Strings will now resolve. At this point you must choose targets for the spell. You target your Battlewise Hoplite and your opponent's creature. (We are going to assume your opponent's creature is a legal target, so no Shroud etc.)
- Battlewise Hoplite "sees" that you've targeted it with a spell or ability. Its Heroic ability triggers. This will be placed on the stack when a player next receives priority. However, your Hidden Strings is still resolving so it does not exist on the stack yet. Only one trigger is activated.
- We continue resolving Hidden Strings.Your Battlewise Hoplite is now untapped and your opponent's creature is now tapped.
- Now that the main text on Hidden Strings has resolved, we now have to resolve the Cipher component of the card.
- From 702.98 of the Comprehensive Rules, Cipher states that:
702.98a Cipher appears on some instants and sorceries. It represents two static abilities, one that functions while the spell is on the stack and one that functions while the card with cipher is in the exile zone. "Cipher" means "If this spell is represented by a card, you may exile this card encoded on a creature you control" and "As long as this card is encoded on that creature, that creature has 'Whenever this creature deals combat damage to a player, you may copy this card and you may cast the copy without paying its mana cost.'"
702.98b The term "encoded" describes the relationship between the card with cipher while in the exile zone and the creature chosen when the spell represented by that card resolves.
702.98c The card with cipher remains encoded on the chosen creature as long as the card with cipher remains exiled and the creature remains on the battlefield. The card remains encoded on that object even if it changes controller or stops being a creature, as long as it remains on the battlefield.
- This means Cypher does NOT target. At all.
- We Encode Hidden Strings on the Battlewise Hoplite. Exile Hidden Strings.
- Hidden Strings has now finished resolving.
- The Active Player (you in this case because it is your turn) now receives Priority.
- Battlewise Hoplite's Heroic ability is placed on the stack. Remember, only 1 trigger has been activated.
- We assume both players now pass Priority.
- The trigger now resolves. Battlewise Hoplite now gains a +1/+1 counter.
- Next, you Scry 1.
- Battlewise Hoplite's Heroic trigger has now finished resolving. It is now a 3/3 creature.
- We assume there are no Blocks and no further spells cast.
- Combat Damage is now dealt. Battlewise Hoplite deals 3 combat damage to your opponent.
- The Encoded Hidden Strings on Battlewise Hoplite now triggers and is placed on the stack.
- We assume there are no other triggered abilities. Now that all triggered abilities have been placed on the stack the Active Player receives Priority.
- Resolve the encoded Hidden Strings that has been cast from exile.
- You may now tap or untap target permanent, then tap or untap another target permanent again. If you choose to target Battlewise Hoplite you'll have all those triggers again.
- Once everything has resolved, move to End of Combat Phase.
this is great!, thanks for this step by step explanation. now me and my friend could stop arguing and he can cry how OP this can be :D Again, this explanation is in no way accurate. There is a lot wrong with it. If you want to know the actual steps of how spells and triggers are placed on the stack from Heroic, refer to my earlier posts, because it's kind of annoying having to repeat myself five times answering one question. It is true that you can get a 4/4 vigilant Hoplite at the end of the day, though. And please, if you're going to answer rules questions with answers that contradict those previously given in the thread, make sure you're right, or edit your posts appropriately. It's harmful to the newer players who come across bad information and start playing incorrectly. thanks too for your input, I read your post as well but I guess his steps 1-4 are correct (again not too technical and would be glad if this gets disected if it iswrong), why? because u mentioned that right after hidden strings gets cast, you say heroics gets into the stack right after which i believe is wrong, why? because you can counter hidden strings which means in order to do that players must have the stack passing priority 1st. yes after all, i just want to make sure at the end of the day I get to have my 4/4 vigilant hopelite with 2 scrys, 3 damage and another tap and untap. I also was happy about the steps that he gave and reference as it was clear to explain to my friend and I am happy for the others to discuss it as well (gotta love 2nd opinions). The replicate one I think would not work since the 2nd and so forth instances/copies are not cast but duplicated only, the 1st I think should trigger heroics. Heroic does go on the stack on top of the spell. It's just like any other ability that triggers on a spell cast, it goes on the stack immediately when you announce Hidden Strings and choose its targets, and so it will resolve first as per LIFO (last in first out). Targets are ALWAYS chosen upon casting a spell, not upon resolving it (inb4 someone points out an exception, but I can't think of one offhand). This is basic rules stuff that you need to know. Of course you can counter Hidden Strings, but you'll be doing it after the Heroic ability has already gone on the stack.The other important thing you should remember is that spells resolve all of their text simultaneously. There is no time for stuff to go on the stack while a spell is resolving, and spells do not have multiple parts to their resolution. It's always very simply: 1. Pay the mana cost/announce targets, now you've cast the spell. 2. Stuff that triggers from casting spells/targeting stuff goes on the stack. 3. Players pass priority, the triggers resolve. 4. Players pass priority again, the spell resolves. And of course it's possible for the effects of the spell to trigger other things, but that's not happening in our example. Again: 1. You pay for Hidden Strings and announce its targets. 2. Choosing Hoplite as a target triggers Heroic, which goes on the stack above Hidden Strings itself. 3. Now you and your opponent have priority, eventually you both pass and Heroic resolves. 4. Pass again, Hidden Strings resolves. You now choose whether you want to tap or untap each of the two targets, because that's a choice, and choices are made on resolution. It's not that complicated, really. so if the heroic ability should auto trigger since it met requirements of being targeted by your spell and automatically goes to stack, would the heroic effect resolve regardless if you counter hidden strings? 3/3 hoplite regardless?
Yes, triggers go off when their condition is met. For heroic, it must simply be targeted by a spell you cast. For example, if you have a champion of the parish and primeval bounty out, then cast another champion that gets countered, what happens? Both have triggers that would go off if the spell happens uninterrupted, but the difference lies in the trigger. Bounty goes off as soon as you cast the creature spell, but champion's doesnt until the resolution, and the creature actually lands.
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United States24615 Posts
On October 18 2013 01:42 Audemed wrote:
The giant also chooses the target before the effect goes off. He comes in, you roll the dice, target chosen, then it goes on the stack. Otoh, look at skull rend. Deals damage, then they discard 2 cards at random. The cards that are discarded dont get picked until the spell resolves because its resolution is independent of the choice. Scab clan giant has to target something to fight, so if there are no opposing creatures, the ability doesnt happen.
I found ruling information which confirms this: "The target is chosen at random as part of putting the ability on the stack. Players can respond to the ability knowing what the target of the ability is."
This is contrary to what I was told IRL; ty for clarifying.
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On October 18 2013 01:32 Audemed wrote:
Celerity, as a point of clarification, spells dont resolve all of their abilities simultaneously, per se, but there is indeed no way to do anything during the resolution of the spell. Spells like turn // burn have 2 separate effects that go in a set order, worldfire has errata stating that its effects go in order, and stuff like magma jet even does damage, then scrys; it always has to be performed in the order in which it is worded.
Yeah fair enough, when I said simultaneous, I meant that the spell is self-contained until it finishes resolving. I guess I wasn't super clear on that.
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Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
Hm. I don't know why I thought choosing targets was part of resolving a spell and therefore happens all in one go rather than a declaration that needs to be made at the point of casting. Fk. I need to start revising the rules again. >.>
Thanks for the correction Cel.
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If you play on MTGO you will learn all this sort of stuff just by playing, really helpful. Some spells only target when they do resolve though, like detention sphere. This can be helpful since in response to detention sphere you can bounce/sac your only permanent and then when sphere enters play they have to target their own permanents.
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On October 18 2013 05:26 DEN1ED wrote:
If you play on MTGO you will learn all this sort of stuff just by playing, really helpful. Some spells only target when they do resolve though, like detention sphere. This can be helpful since in response to detention sphere you can bounce/sac your only permanent and then when sphere enters play they have to target their own permanents.
Thats because detention sphere targets as an enter-the-battlefield effect, as it states in the wording. Its different than all of the previous examples because its a permanent
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On October 18 2013 05:26 DEN1ED wrote:
If you play on MTGO you will learn all this sort of stuff just by playing, really helpful. Some spells only target when they do resolve though, like detention sphere. This can be helpful since in response to detention sphere you can bounce/sac your only permanent and then when sphere enters play they have to target their own permanents.
No they do not. Dsphere is not O-Ring. And it should be noted that MTGO does not always give the correct rulings. Snapcaster-Zenith interactions were wrong, handling of Jace-4's +1 was also wrong.
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On October 18 2013 07:04 Judicator wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2013 05:26 DEN1ED wrote:
If you play on MTGO you will learn all this sort of stuff just by playing, really helpful. Some spells only target when they do resolve though, like detention sphere. This can be helpful since in response to detention sphere you can bounce/sac your only permanent and then when sphere enters play they have to target their own permanents. No they do not. Dsphere is not O-Ring. And it should be noted that MTGO does not always give the correct rulings. Snapcaster-Zenith interactions were wrong, handling of Jace-4's +1 was also wrong.
Out of idle curiosity, what did it do wrong with those things?
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It shuffled Zeniths back into the deck when the Zenith should have been exiled due to Flashback. It removed Jaces effect when Jace does not need to be on the field in order to apply the -1/-0 effect.
Edit
Denied did point out that its important to read the cards and pay attention to how things actually work.
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On October 18 2013 05:26 DEN1ED wrote:
If you play on MTGO you will learn all this sort of stuff just by playing, really helpful. Some spells only target when they do resolve though, like detention sphere. This can be helpful since in response to detention sphere you can bounce/sac your only permanent and then when sphere enters play they have to target their own permanents.
Detention Sphere's triggered ability is a "may."
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Many of these little things you'll learn just by playing with competent, experienced, and knowledgeable people, so get on it! Important things are indeed stuff like not choosing a D. Sphere target until it resolves....and in terms of heroic, as long as you respond to the heroic trigger (see examples from last few pages, if opponent had mana, can respond to the heroic trigger with paraks curse or whatever it's called to kill the hoplite before it becomes a 3/3, you can also bounce monstrous creatures with monstrous trigger on the stack or kill them with it on the stack to have the effect not happen, etc). Tbh whilst Theros has seemingly confused the shit out of people, there really haven't been majorly complicated rule changes and added mechanics..
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Bestow is a very counter intuitive mechanic given how enchantments played out in general. The Gods are weird because of how their card type changes. You are right that it should not be terribly hard given the faqs wizards put out.
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On October 18 2013 08:27 MCMcEmcee wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2013 05:26 DEN1ED wrote:
If you play on MTGO you will learn all this sort of stuff just by playing, really helpful. Some spells only target when they do resolve though, like detention sphere. This can be helpful since in response to detention sphere you can bounce/sac your only permanent and then when sphere enters play they have to target their own permanents. Detention Sphere's triggered ability is a "may."
Lol damn it is. They just have to keep dumbing down cards. That was a fun interaction with oblivion ring.
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Ya, I faced a hand like that the other day. I thoughtseized his garruk though and he just drew mana guys the rest of the game. .
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3rd place in the PTQ today. Had a sweet sealed pool with a bunch of bestow/pump shenanigans, a couple heroic creatures, a bit of removal (in 1/1 deathtouch and 6 mana kill you form mostly), and Arbor Colossus and Mistcutter Hydra to finish out games. Only loss in the Swiss was to one of the SCG grinders (name escapes me) who ended up winning the thing.
T8 draft went really well for me, had a ton of early chump/draw/scry cards (3x omenspeaker, 2x Triton Fortune Hunter, couple of the card draw enchantment) and 2 of the 5/5 krakens, the 6/6 kraken, and Abhorrent Overlord among other things. Sadly only 1 griptide as my only non permanent in the deck because, as I found later, the guy to my left was black and guy 2 over on the right had 4 Journey's End, 2 Griptide, and a Sea God's Revenge among others (granted I passed a Journey's End and SGR for a fortune hunter and the Overlord). Beat him in the first match of T8, he got a bit flooded G2 and G1 I just shut him down with mono krakens.
I ended up losing in 3 to Polukranos with an amazing G/W deck to back him up. Possible misplay on my part. I was at 10, he had Polukranos, Nemesis of Mortals, and Nylea's Disciple and was at 12 life. I had a monstrous 5/5 Kraken with Aqueous Form on it and a land, Nimbus Naiad and Triton Fortune Hunter in hand. Both of us are on 7 land with enough of our colors, he has 3 cards in hand. What would you do?
+ Show Spoiler +I played both out seperately and swung, scrying to find I had Abhorrent Overlord on top. He monsterous'd Polukranos and killed me with the pump spell. Had I kept the kraken back, I could have lived that turn, but would have lost the Kraken, drawn the Overlord, then probably won the game as he had no trample. Ah well, hindsight 20/20.
Did end up getting Elspeth and a bunch of trade fodder that resulted in me getting my Standard deck almost completely un-proxied. Here's the main:
+ Show Spoiler +
4x Overgrown Tomb
4x Godless Shrine
4x Temple Garden
4x Temple of Silence
3x Forest
2x Swamp
1x Plains
4x Sylvan Caryatid
4x Voice of Resurgence (could be Fleecemane Lion, not sure, still testing)
4x Loxodon Smiter
4x Desecration Demon
3x Alms Beast (might end up being some number of Ready//Willing, Selesnya Charm, Read the Bones, or Golgari Charm)
4x Advent of the Wurm
2x Obzedat, Ghost Council
2x Blood Baron of Vizkopa
2x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2x Doom Blade
3x Hero's Downfall
2x Whip of Erebos
Still tweaking, and the sideboard is in flux, but I've been working on my 4x Thoughtseize, because that's definitely in.
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On October 20 2013 12:39 deth2munkies wrote:3rd place in the PTQ today. Had a sweet sealed pool with a bunch of bestow/pump shenanigans, a couple heroic creatures, a bit of removal (in 1/1 deathtouch and 6 mana kill you form mostly), and Arbor Colossus and Mistcutter Hydra to finish out games. Only loss in the Swiss was to one of the SCG grinders (name escapes me) who ended up winning the thing. T8 draft went really well for me, had a ton of early chump/draw/scry cards (3x omenspeaker, 2x Triton Fortune Hunter, couple of the card draw enchantment) and 2 of the 5/5 krakens, the 6/6 kraken, and Abhorrent Overlord among other things. Sadly only 1 griptide as my only non permanent in the deck because, as I found later, the guy to my left was black and guy 2 over on the right had 4 Journey's End, 2 Griptide, and a Sea God's Revenge among others (granted I passed a Journey's End and SGR for a fortune hunter and the Overlord). Beat him in the first match of T8, he got a bit flooded G2 and G1 I just shut him down with mono krakens. I ended up losing in 3 to Polukranos with an amazing G/W deck to back him up. Possible misplay on my part. I was at 10, he had Polukranos, Nemesis of Mortals, and Nylea's Disciple and was at 12 life. I had a monstrous 5/5 Kraken with Aqueous Form on it and a land, Nimbus Naiad and Triton Fortune Hunter in hand. Both of us are on 7 land with enough of our colors, he has 3 cards in hand. What would you do? + Show Spoiler +I played both out seperately and swung, scrying to find I had Abhorrent Overlord on top. He monsterous'd Polukranos and killed me with the pump spell. Had I kept the kraken back, I could have lived that turn, but would have lost the Kraken, drawn the Overlord, then probably won the game as he had no trample. Ah well, hindsight 20/20. Did end up getting Elspeth and a bunch of trade fodder that resulted in me getting my Standard deck almost completely un-proxied. Here's the main: + Show Spoiler +
4x Overgrown Tomb
4x Godless Shrine
4x Temple Garden
4x Temple of Silence
3x Forest
2x Swamp
1x Plains
4x Sylvan Caryatid
4x Voice of Resurgence (could be Fleecemane Lion, not sure, still testing)
4x Loxodon Smiter
4x Desecration Demon
3x Alms Beast (might end up being some number of Ready//Willing, Selesnya Charm, Read the Bones, or Golgari Charm)
4x Advent of the Wurm
2x Obzedat, Ghost Council
2x Blood Baron of Vizkopa
2x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2x Doom Blade
3x Hero's Downfall
2x Whip of Erebos
Still tweaking, and the sideboard is in flux, but I've been working on my 4x Thoughtseize, because that's definitely in.
By playing them separate weren't you putting yourself dead on board if he had a land? Hydra monstrous at X=3? Kills both creatures swings for 8+5?
EDIT: He doesn't even need the land for that play, sorry.
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EPT
