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Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On October 17 2013 00:41 woreyour wrote:
Yea I read the help text for cipher too, it does not mention the word target, but the thing is same for enchant creature / aura. It does not say "target" but I read somewhere in the rullings that "enchanting" counts as targetting. So I am not sure if "encoding" has the same thing going on.
303.4a of the Comprehensive Rules state:
303.4a An Aura spell requires a target, which is restricted by its enchant ability.
So even though Aura spells do not explicitly say 'target' in them, they still target.
However, thanks to 303.4f, there is an interesting interaction Auras have with cards like Sun Titan however. 303.4f states that:
303.4f If an Aura is entering the battlefield under a player’s control by any means other than by resolving as an Aura spell, and the effect putting it onto the battlefield doesn’t specify the object or player the Aura will enchant, that player chooses what it will enchant as the Aura enters the battlefield. The player must choose a legal object or player according to the Aura’s enchant ability and any other applicable effects.
This means that we can use Sun Titan's triggered ability to bring back, say, a Pacifism and attach it to a creature that can't be targeted like Geist of Saint Traft. Because the Pacifism has not actually been cast, it does not target. Therefore, Geist of Saint Traft can be enchanted by the Pacifism.
Pretty cute interaction.
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I had a couple of small questions about heroic.
If someone lightning bolts my akroan crusader (makes a 1/1 when targeted), and then I unsummon it, how does the stack resolve?
My guess is the stack is bolt -> heroic -> unsummon -> heroic, so I'll get a 1/1, bounce the crusader to me, but now that it's in my hand does the heroic still trigger or does it count as an invalid target? I.e. do I get 2 tokens or just 1?
Also I can gigadrowse the same dude to trigger heroic for 1 mana? I'm playing super casual and just thinking of cheap ways to dump mana for heroic (like zephyr charge or something).
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United States24814 Posts
slOosh heroic only triggers when your spell triggers the creature... not when your opponents' spells do.
Also, it never triggers if the card wasn't on the battlefield when it was targeted by a spell, I believe.
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Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
Can I just say. If you guys ever ask rules questions again please link to the cards in question. Not everyone knows what you're talking about.
On October 17 2013 03:42 slOosh wrote:
I had a couple of small questions about heroic.
If someone lightning bolts my akroan crusader (makes a 1/1 when targeted), and then I unsummon it, how does the stack resolve?
My guess is the stack is bolt -> heroic -> unsummon -> heroic, so I'll get a 1/1, bounce the crusader to me, but now that it's in my hand does the heroic still trigger or does it count as an invalid target? I.e. do I get 2 tokens or just 1?
Also I can gigadrowse the same dude to trigger heroic for 1 mana? I'm playing super casual and just thinking of cheap ways to dump mana for heroic (like zephyr charge or something).
- Lightning Bolt is cast targeting Akroan Crusader. No trigger occurs due to Heroic's wording.
- Unsummon is cast, targeting Akroan Crusader. It goes on the stack.
- Another Heroic trigger activates and is placed on the stack.
- We assume all players pass priority here. Resolve from the top.
- The trigger resolves. Put a 1/1 red Soldier creature token with haste onto the battlefield.
- Unsommon resolves. Return Akroan Crusader to its owner's hand.
- Lightning Bolt resolves. The ability is countered by Rule 608.2b as there are no legal targets for the spell.
With your second question, yes Heroic will trigger each time a replicated copy of Gigadrowse targets the Crusader. NOPE.
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MoonBear/Micronesia, how hard/difficult would it be for us to get automatic linking for cards? I know we can link the cards via magicinfo, but would that be too difficult?
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Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On October 17 2013 04:10 Judicator wrote:
MoonBear/Micronesia, how hard/difficult would it be for us to get automatic linking for cards? I know we can link the cards via magicinfo, but would that be too difficult?
Hm. Well the two options are a TLPD'ize sort of function like with SC Player names, or a pop-up input field like the Link button where you can type in a card name and it'll fill in a magiccards.info search url for you. However, I'm not sure if there's enough people who would use it to justify asking R1CH to spend time adding it to TL.
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On October 17 2013 00:27 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2013 00:23 Terrestrialrage wrote:
Cipher specifically says "You may cast a copy of the encoded card." That sounds a lot like a spell, since it is being cast. My gut is telling me Cipher and Heroic do work together. When the creature it was encoded to hits an opponent, and the ciphered spell gets cast, that can target your heroic creatures and trigger the benefits. However, when you first cast the dimir spell, and it is getting encoded on to one of your creatures, the wording is "If this spell is represented by a card, you may exile this card encoded on a creature you control." Notice that it does not say target creature.
My mistake, I read his question wrong. No, the actual process of encoding a spell does not trigger heroic. The targets of an encoded spell after a creature does damage to a player does trigger heroic.
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Replicate copies don't trigger heroic since heroic triggers when you cast the spell that targets.
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Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On October 17 2013 04:38 MCMcEmcee wrote:
Replicate copies don't trigger heroic since heroic triggers when you cast the spell that targets.
Welp. That's what I get for not reading the card.
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On October 17 2013 02:53 MoonBear wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2013 01:40 woreyour wrote:
so if this is the case then it makes it really good
so let me just make sure im doing it correctly with examples.
I have a battlewise hoplite (ready to attack), then I pop hiddenstings, targeting him to be untapped even if he is already untapped triggering his heroics making him 3/3. Encode it to him. Then probably tap opponent's blocker to make sure I can deal guaranteed damage to him.
Then it would trigger another hiddenstrings (free) which again I target another permanent and again my hoplite to untap him and trigger another heroic making him 4/4? but damage taken by opponent is only 3?
Am i correct? It is impossible for you to hit your opponent with a 4/4 Battlewise Hoplite and also tap your opponent's creature at the same time. Lemme break down how this will happen at every stage so there's no confusion. - You cast Hidden Strings. Hidden Strings is now on the stack.
- Both players are assumed to pass priority.
- Hidden Strings will now resolve. At this point you must choose targets for the spell. You target your Battlewise Hoplite and your opponent's creature. (We are going to assume your opponent's creature is a legal target, so no Shroud etc.)
- Battlewise Hoplite "sees" that you've targeted it with a spell or ability. Its Heroic ability triggers. This will be placed on the stack when a player next receives priority. However, your Hidden Strings is still resolving so it does not exist on the stack yet. Only one trigger is activated.
- We continue resolving Hidden Strings.Your Battlewise Hoplite is now untapped and your opponent's creature is now tapped.
Steps 1-4 are out of order. Heroic will go on the stack right after Hidden Strings does, before either player even gets priority. Both players will then pass priority for the heroic trigger, then pass priority again for Hidden Strings, then Hidden Strings will resolve all of its parts simultaneously.
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On October 17 2013 04:38 MCMcEmcee wrote:
Replicate copies don't trigger heroic since heroic triggers when you cast the spell that targets.
I don't see where replicate copies wouldnt trigger heroic, you would have to target the creature with the spell, but it would trigger since "its controller may cast a copy of the encoded card without paying its mana cost." The spell is cast by the player targeting creatures, that meets the requirement for heroic trigger...
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On October 17 2013 03:42 slOosh wrote:
I had a couple of small questions about heroic.
If someone lightning bolts my akroan crusader (makes a 1/1 when targeted), and then I unsummon it, how does the stack resolve?
My guess is the stack is bolt -> heroic -> unsummon -> heroic, so I'll get a 1/1, bounce the crusader to me, but now that it's in my hand does the heroic still trigger or does it count as an invalid target? I.e. do I get 2 tokens or just 1?
Actually had something like this happen today on MTGO. Opponent has a Wavecrash Triton He targets it with a spell and the heroic ability gos on the stack. Then I Bounced it with a Voyage's End and the Heroic trigger successfully resolved so once the trigger is on the stack it doesn't matter if the creature is removed or not (unless the heroic ability targets the creature itself obv).
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On October 17 2013 09:05 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2013 03:42 slOosh wrote:
I had a couple of small questions about heroic.
If someone lightning bolts my akroan crusader (makes a 1/1 when targeted), and then I unsummon it, how does the stack resolve?
My guess is the stack is bolt -> heroic -> unsummon -> heroic, so I'll get a 1/1, bounce the crusader to me, but now that it's in my hand does the heroic still trigger or does it count as an invalid target? I.e. do I get 2 tokens or just 1?
Actually had something like this happen today on MTGO. Opponent has a Wavecrash Triton He targets it with a spell and the heroic ability gos on the stack. Then I Bounced it with a Voyage's End and the Heroic trigger successfully resolved so once the trigger is on the stack it doesn't matter if the creature is removed or not (unless the heroic ability targets the creature itself obv).
Oh, so if I were to, say, play 3 Unsummons on a Akroan Crusader, I'll get 3 tokens even though there no target for the unsummons after the first one resolves?
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On October 17 2013 09:56 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2013 09:05 Gorsameth wrote:On October 17 2013 03:42 slOosh wrote:
I had a couple of small questions about heroic.
If someone lightning bolts my akroan crusader (makes a 1/1 when targeted), and then I unsummon it, how does the stack resolve?
My guess is the stack is bolt -> heroic -> unsummon -> heroic, so I'll get a 1/1, bounce the crusader to me, but now that it's in my hand does the heroic still trigger or does it count as an invalid target? I.e. do I get 2 tokens or just 1?
Actually had something like this happen today on MTGO. Opponent has a Wavecrash Triton He targets it with a spell and the heroic ability gos on the stack. Then I Bounced it with a Voyage's End and the Heroic trigger successfully resolved so once the trigger is on the stack it doesn't matter if the creature is removed or not (unless the heroic ability targets the creature itself obv). Oh, so if I were to, say, play 3 Unsummons on a Akroan Crusader, I'll get 3 tokens even though there no target for the unsummons after the first one resolves?
Yep, all you have to do is declare a spell targeting it. As long as you cast them all before they resolve your good to go.
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In your opinion, should the GW aggro decks start splashing black for Thoughtsieze and maybe Doom Blade if you expect the mono-color devotion decks to continue to rise in popularity?
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United States24814 Posts
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Ultimate Price is only better against mono-black. It doesn't hit blood baron, so what threats will it kill that doomblade won't?
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No, hexproof just means you can't target it. You can still "choose" it though. Same reason you can copy a hexproof with a clone effect.
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EPT
