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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
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micronesia
United States24579 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/d39KWLq.png) The split card is toil/trouble It is going to take me a while to prepare these videos so they can be watched. In the meantime, can one (or some) of you give me your thoughts on this pool of cards (feel free to build a sample 30 card deck)? I also won't spoil what happened in my matches until tomorrow when I release the deck that I used, and the match videos. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
White 7 Maze Sentinel Scion of Vitu Martial Law Eyes Sunspire Guards Mastif Blue 4 Raptor Drake Grasp Runewing Multi 2 Hussar Patrol Unflinching Courage Pretty sure black's a trap despite Vosk probably being the most unfair card in 30 card limited. Green's a free splash since you have a guildgate. I am pretty sure its better to go UW instead of WR given that those blue cards are better than whatever jank you are getting in Red. But yeah, I don't have much experience in 30 card sealed, as in no idea how fast/slow the format is on MtGO. | ||
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micronesia
United States24579 Posts
edit: oh and that is only 13 non-land cards | ||
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jampidampi
Finland386 Posts
On June 11 2013 12:22 micronesia wrote: Can you explain what UW and WR are? UW is blue white. WR is white red. It's a common way of shortening the colors in MTG. W = white, B = black, G = green, U = blue, R = red | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
I built WR first and but didn't like the fact that...you had run stuff on the ground for the most part. While V. Swiftblade is a good card, the other red cards weren't so hot, Riot Piker is good if you have combat tricks, but you have none and I don't like these decks with 0 reach (see below). So I opted for the UW build, where the flyers may mean you get through for your last few points of damage without leaning on your Scion (which is your best card). Reach is a deck's ability to end the game through a player's defenses. Typically that's fulfilled by direct damage spells like Explosive Impact, but you can also "reach" the end of the game by nipping away what hopefully will be the last few points of the opponent's damage. This is why I opted for the flyers route over staying on the ground in either Green or Red. It's easier and more potent to splash Courage. Edit Yeah, somehow I manage to convince myself that landcount was the same as the spell count. Probably Thrull, Battering Krasis, Syncopate and one more, I don't like the mana if you go Red, but that's possible to fill the last 4 slots with the red cards. Edit 2: It's a matter of consistency versus card power, I don't like the Krasis, but you can probably play the simic guildgate to help some more, aka I would rather add more green cards and keep the mana not ass. Chorus of might should probably be in too, it's a nice little finisher if the board ever gets stalled. | ||
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micronesia
United States24579 Posts
Here is my deck: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/rfVaicw.png) I just finished writing up my analysis of the first game and am uploading it. Tomorrow I will post the first video and ask all of you to take a look if you have a chance. In the meantime, please let me know your thoughts on the deck. Judicator, based on what you said earlier, going for black is a 'trap.' I take this to mean that the black/mix cards here, while very good cards won't lend themselves well to this format in the context of the other cards I have, but I'm not sure how you can tell that. Scion of Vitu and eyes on the sky can both be very useful, but I was already putting several fliers in so I didn't think they were worthwhile. Looking back, Scion of Vitu is only 5 mana for a 4/4 plus two 1/1 birds, so it's actually very cost efficient. I wish I had more time during deck construction so I could give this more thought. I didn't go for cards which benefit from having a gate as I was only planning to put one into the deck (although with other color combinations I could have increased the gate count). | ||
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Shotcoder
United States2316 Posts
In this example Judicator built a U/W list and splashed green for that one green card. | ||
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micronesia
United States24579 Posts
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BlueBird.
United States3889 Posts
In 30 card deck your going to see your mana more consistently throughout games, and it's not super risky. I personally don't splash unless I have a really good reason too, and I try to have 2 sources of color, but that's for 40 card decks, I don't play 4 pack sealed, so can't comment. | ||
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Shotcoder
United States2316 Posts
On June 11 2013 14:29 micronesia wrote: Oh okay, I understand what splash means now! However, wouldn't splashing green by putting in one gate instead of a basic land mean that there's a good chance you will have a green card in your hand and no way to cast it for a long time? That seems very risky/costly without some type of a tutor/etc. Yea that's always a possibility but normally if the card is strong enough it's worth the risk. Edit: Little sidenote about standard. I've seen Esper, BUG, and even Bant control lists recently, but wtf where's RUG and Grixis? | ||
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MCMcEmcee
United States1609 Posts
white- everything except sphere of safety blue- cloudfin wind drake paralyzing grasp runewing multi- hussar patrol mirko vosk deathcult rogue orzhov charm artifact- azorius cluestone 13 lands mana is worse with the heavier splash but Mirko kills them fast. Could cut one of the black cards and play 14 lands to help hit your colored sources, the keyrune and Dimir Guildgate help there. Could also see something similar to Judicator's build but with Pit Fight and Boros/Simic Guildgate. Boros makes white but blue is practically a splash in this deck so Simic Guildgate probably lets you get away with more plains. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
Again this is 30 card sealed, it may very well be the slowest format possible with the Black splash possible at little cost. @Shotcoder: Those decks dont exist because RUG cant close games out with it being either a few points of damage short or a few cards short, just one of those 40/60 matchup decks. Grixis theres no point to running in any variation, your aggro builds are just worse than the aggro builds out there as blue does nothing for you, the control just means your worse than both esper and bant and probably lower than BUG since your aetherling lines are just worse and thoughtflare is worse than urban evolution. | ||
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JT
Canada24 Posts
I couldn't help myself and bought a box. Also drafted the night before and bought 5 additional packs. About $410 spent. Best Pulls: Gofy 2 Arcbound Ravagers, 1 of them foil Vendilion Clique Cryptic Command Elspeth Kiki-Jiki Engineered Explosives Maelstrom Pulse Aether Vial Summoner's Pact Foil Squee, Goblin Nabob A whole bunch of other $5-$12 rares and uncommons. I calculated the value being about $575-$600 worth of cards going by Star City for the 32 total packs. Obviously not all of that value can be recouped because some of it is tied up in the $1-$2 commons and uncommons but overall I'm quite happy. Without the Tarmogoyf I'd probably be a bit dissapointed. | ||
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micronesia
United States24579 Posts
Sorry for the less than perfect quality... next time I do this I will try bumping up to the larger resolution setting (the original of that 7 minute video alone was 4 gigs though lol). Here is my analysis: Pregame - He is going first. My starting hand has two plains and an azorius cluestone. With any one land I will be able to afford the cluestone, after which I will be able to get the two blue birds or the white bird. There is a gate as well as 4 swamps left in the deck so I should get a card soon that allows me to play the Syndicate Enforcer. I want to get him out as soon as possible to put some leftover mana into extort. I choose to stay with my cards. Round 1 - him - He stays at 7 cards and plays a forest. Round 1 - me - I draw and recieve martial law. I play a plains. Round 2 - him - He plays a mountain. I figure I should expect some gruul cards (although that's obviously not definite). Round 2 - me - I receive a swamp, as I expected I soon would (and I will need soon). I can't afford anything so I intentionally play a plains to keep my other colors a secret (this is not a big deal but I figured why not). Round 3 - him - He plays a plains (GRW) and puts out a Lobber Crew. I have not seen this card used before so I'm a bit out of my element. The only thing I know is that it's a 0/4 defender who deals one damage to all opponents when it taps. I look and realize for the first time it also untaps when a multicolor spell is played. I'm hoping he doesn't have that many multicolored spells. Round 3 - me - I draw and receive Mirko Vosk. In this format he probably has about 13 lands total, so with 3 out that means 10 in his deck. By the time I can get him into play he will probably have 7-8 lands in his deck (or less), so it will only take 2 hits from Vosk to deplete his deck. However, I can't depend solely on that strategy as that is too risky. I play a swamp (the only land) and decide to go for the cluestone instead of the griffin. He doesn't have a 1/1 out that I could defend with by putting out the griffin, and I don't have any other land waiting for me, so I figure I better prioritize getting mana. Also, I would prefer to get the evolving bird out first if possible, and I will need the cluestone for that. Mistake: I may as well have put out the cloudfin raptor now since the stone has one blue mana available. Round 4 - him - He puts out a second forest and then plays the alive side of the GW split card, putting out a 3/3 centaur. It is not multicolored so I don't have to worry about two hits from the lobber crew, but I know I will take one at some point before the end of my next turn. Round 4 - me - I draw a sphere of safety. This card will be much stronger if I have both it AND martial law in play (I even have a third enchament in my deck still). Unfortunately I don't have a land to play so I can't get Mirko going yet. I was able to get the evolving bird and the griffin both into play though so the fact that I didn't put out my cloudfin raptor last turn doesn't seem to have cost me anything. The only thing I might have been able to do differently with 4 mana instead of 3 is put out runewing, and possibly sacrifice him to draw another card, but I don't think it matters. He hits me with lobber crew for one at a strange random time, but ok. Round 5 - him - He attacks with his 3/3 without putting a land out. There's no reason why he can't just play the land during his second main though, so I don't worry about it. I think about whether or not to double block for the kill and decide not to, especially since he still has all his mana. I take 3 damage. He then plays an island and casts armored wolf-rider which is pretty beefy and also allows him another hit with the lobber crew. I take one damage from it during his turn, leaving me at 15 health. Round 5 - me - I draw a swamp and immediately play it. He doesn't have any defense against fliers so I put out Mirko. Normally I would wait until after my attack phase to put him out, but the evolving bird does more damage this way, and my opponent is all tapped out with no air defense anyway. I bring him down to 16 health, but take 1 damage from lobber crew and am at 14. Round 6 - him - He plays a mountain, bringing him to 6 mana (all colors but black) and has 3 cards left in his hand. He swings with the 3/3 and the armored wolf-rider. As things stand I can block the 3/3 safely with Mirko to prevent damage, but he has all his mana so I figure I will probably regret that. This brings me down to 7. He then plays a zhur-Taa Ancient, which is a big baddie, but also doubles both of our lands effectively. Unfortunately this enables another hit from the lobber crew, bringing me down to 6. He then takes advantage of the double mana to cast a frostburn weird, which enables another hit from the lobber crew, bringing me down to 5. Round 6 - me - I receive a Simic Guildgate, which is the only land I have so I play it. I swing with Mirko and mill about half a dozen cards, bringing his deck down to 11 and his health to 14. I decide I am in desperate need of blockers, so I use double mana to cast the syndicate enforcer and runewing. By doing it in the correct order I am able to extort, bringing me to 6 and him to 13. However, lobber crew brings me back to 5. Round 7 - him - He plays warleader's helix, and interrupts with lobber crew, dealing me 5 damage and killing me. Final Analysis: From what I can tell, there are a few minor things I could have done differently, but they wouldn't have had the potential to reverse the result of this game. The only complaint I have about my deck is I got delayed on land one time and it was costly. My opponent had a very strong game. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
Essentially, when you expect to draw 2/3 of your deck, don't play too many lands because you are drawing 2/3 of them (2/3 of 12 is 8 lands, kinda a lot already). Mill is of course busted if you get the cards. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
Turn 3 you play the keyrune not a bad idea considering your hand, but I would have played the 2/3 flyer. As for why, all my opponent has is a pinger, I know my deck doesn't care too much. What I want to do is get in damage since I am not interacting with that card. Now what happens is that if you play keyrune into Cloudfin Raptor (which you did not do), you only get in 1 point of damage, playing the 2/3 with the keyrune line still open to me will get net me 2 damage on the next turn. Missing a land drop is not a huge deal and the Cloudfin Raptor line would take cost me more damage. To put it in perspective, the keyrune into raptor line in 2 turns would deal 3 damage, the Sunspire line gives me 4 and puts me in a much better position on the next turn if I draw a land. If I don't I am in the same spot I was in on turn 3 with WWB mana except I have a 2/3 out instead of a 1/2. This actually sets up your Martial Law better too since now he's using removal on pretty average creatures (turn 3/4 Cloudfin Raptor are not great), trading with Runewing is awful and not that much kills a Sunspire. Basically you messed up turn 3 pretty terribly and it cost you. I would have probably would have tried laying the Martial Law after he played Alive given your deck. If you can just tempo him for a turn (make him do nothing or next to nothing), you probably could have put him in a more difficult situation where that Helix would have been to a creature rather than your face. Although in a race, Helix is pretty brutal. Also, not playing Cloudfin Raptor on turn 3 was bad. If you wanted to take that line, you needed to play that thing on 3 after the keyrune. Then you can drop a Runewing to apply more pressure or Syndic Enforcer to trade off for the Centaur token or lay the Martial Law and pass. The Sphere of Safety is completely pointless here. The turn afterwards is the Mirko which now after any of the 4 drops is more pressure than what he has on the board. Edit: Also notice, I am not even considering how the game actually played out. That kind of analysis is flawed because hindsight is 20/20 which you don't have in a real game. You never played into anything nor could you stop a Helix or any of his cards for that matter. Saying that there wasn't anything I could have done to reverse the course of the game is a flawed judgement on your play. You aren't trying to change your outcome, you're trying to change your level of play, two very different. The two are related but aren't directly causal, so get that notion out of your head. You might have very lost if you played differently and/or better, but if you don't? Now your stuck in that mental rut of "I blame the variance" variations. Edit2: As a sidenote, the match Mirconesia played is one of my favorite type of matches as I am usually the UW flyers player and much better people at the store like SCG top 8/16-ers like to grab Green ground dudes. Usually results in a nice little mind game of do-you-got-it stand-off. | ||
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micronesia
United States24579 Posts
On June 12 2013 01:00 Judicator wrote: This brings up the first tough decision in a game of MTG... whether to mulligan or not. You didn't respond to my reasoning I provided at all... just said it was the wrong decision. As I said I didn't need to draw a blue source... just ANY land to get the cluestone out, which had blue in it. Also, I find usually when I mulligan, unless I had something terrible (zero land, all land, etc) I end up with an equal or lesser hand except with less cards. As you mentioned at the end of your post, hindsight is a wonderful thing, and even more so it's easy to say I should have mulligan'd as though there's some guarantee it would have been better. However, if mulligan really IS the correct play, please let me know more of a reasoning as I am very interested in understanding when to mulligan better.You already messed up less than 2 minutes into the game. That hand is sketch as hell to keep since if don't draw a blue source, its essentially a mulligan or worse. Turn 3 you play the keyrune not a bad idea considering your hand, but I would have played the 2/3 flyer. As for why, all my opponent has is a pinger, I know my deck doesn't care too much. What I want to do is get in damage since I am not interacting with that card. Now what happens is that if you play keyrune into Cloudfin Raptor (which you did not do), you only get in 1 point of damage, playing the 2/3 with the keyrune line still open to me will get net me 2 damage on the next turn. Missing a land drop is not a huge deal and the Cloudfin Raptor line would take cost me more damage. I just looked over this section of the game. If I do what you suggest, I swing for 2 next turn, and 2 after, assuming the opponent doesn't prevent it (4 total). If I do the raptor now instead, then swing for 1 next turn with it, then swing for 2 with it the next turn, plus 2 from whichever bird I put out, then I do 5 damage in the same time. By putting the raptor out late, it prevented 1 damage so I only did 4 instead of 5, although that is no less than what your plan would have yielded anyway. Also, we of course can't predict how withholding information about what I was planning from him could or could not have affected what he did (that seems to make this analysis really difficult).edit regarding paragraph above: I didn't compensate for the damage a second creature would do in two turns, so really it's 6 vs 5 in your favor. Noted. To put it in perspective, the keyrune into raptor line in 2 turns would deal 3 damage, the Sunspire line gives me 4 and puts me in a much better position on the next turn if I draw a land. If I don't I am in the same spot I was in on turn 3 with WWB mana except I have a 2/3 out instead of a 1/2. This actually sets up your Martial Law better too since now he's using removal on pretty average creatures (turn 3/4 Cloudfin Raptor are not great), trading with Runewing is awful and not that much kills a Sunspire. Basically you messed up turn 3 pretty terribly and it cost you. I would have probably would have tried laying the Martial Law after he played Alive given your deck. If you can just tempo him for a turn (make him do nothing or next to nothing), you probably could have put him in a more difficult situation where that Helix would have been to a creature rather than your face. Although in a race, Helix is pretty brutal. This is one of the ~2 things I was very unsure of... when to put out martial law (and also sphere of safety later since I will now have two enchantments).Also, not playing Cloudfin Raptor on turn 3 was bad. If you wanted to take that line, you needed to play that thing on 3 after the keyrune. Then you can drop a Runewing to apply more pressure or Syndic Enforcer to trade off for the Centaur token or lay the Martial Law and pass. The Sphere of Safety is completely pointless here. The turn afterwards is the Mirko which now after any of the 4 drops is more pressure than what he has on the board. From what I can tell it only ended up costing me Also notice, I am not even considering how the game actually played out. That kind of analysis is flawed because hindsight is 20/20 which you don't have in a real game. You never played into anything nor could you stop a Helix or any of his cards for that matter. Saying that there wasn't anything I could have done to reverse the course of the game is a flawed judgement on your play. You aren't trying to change your outcome, you're trying to change your level of play, two very different. Yea, this is true, although I'm eager when I play to know if I "screwed up" or not. From what I've seen so far, I Also any other thoughts on the game are appreciated (as well as how I analyzed it). I will have game 2 up when I get the chance. edits: Yea so raptor first costs me 1 point of damage (and allows the raptor to evolve more), although the sequence I used cost me 2 (although did get mana out earlier) edit 2: All of my edits and strikethroughs are under the assumption I draw a 3 mana flier I can afford after playing the griffin. In other words, It's unlikely I could have done 6 damage in two turns. I don't think raptor first is worse. Man, this analysis is tricky even when there's no clock running down :p. I apparently missed out on one point of damage due to not playing the raptor... that's the only mistake I'm confident of so far. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
To not sound biased in my views, I just avoided it simply because I would have snap kept that hand and banked on drawing a blue source before turn 3. I didn't say it was wrong, I said it was a sketch keep, but I don't have problems with that keep considering the hands I keep. Some people mulligan very aggressively and others keep aggressively, just got to be able to justify it to really nobody but yourself. That's not to say you mono keep everything, you just evaluate it and go from there as long as you comfortable winning/losing based on it. Martial Law play for me was dependent on whether he plays a creature I have issues handling, that 3/3 centaur would have been enough for me to say that I need Law more than I needed Mirko. Assuming I had taken your line of Keyrune into Raptor on 3, then I definitely would have played the Enforcer on 4, got in for 1, then gone from there depending on what else he would play. The earlier you get Law into play, the better, but you missed a land drop which did hurt. Decks like these where you get into can't attack situations are bad. You gotta trade some life points to gain some tempo. To be perfectly clear, I don't think that guy would have played that Zur Tar Ancient if you were at higher life points. Edit: You don't know the full scope of these kind of mistakes because simply you aren't presenting a board state for the opponent to evaluate. People play differently if you have different things out. So you just try and fix that mistake next time and consider your lines. If you ever played chess/checkers then this would seem very familiar to you. Lines of play are lines of play. It helped me at least. | ||
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micronesia
United States24579 Posts
On June 12 2013 02:11 Judicator wrote: The mulligan I didn't comment on because everyone has different rules and frankly any reasoning can work as long as you feel okay about. To not sound biased in my views, I just avoided it simply because I would have snap kept that hand and banked on drawing a blue source before turn 3. I didn't say it was wrong, I said it was a sketch keep, but I don't have problems with that keep considering the hands I keep. Some people mulligan very aggressively and others keep aggressively, just got to be able to justify it to really nobody but yourself. That's not to say you mono keep everything, you just evaluate it and go from there as long as you comfortable winning/losing based on it. Martial Law play for me was dependent on whether he plays a creature I have issues handling, that 3/3 centaur would have been enough for me to say that I need Law more than I needed Mirko. Assuming I had taken your line of Keyrune into Raptor on 3, then I definitely would have played the Enforcer on 4, got in for 1, then gone from there depending on what else he would play. The earlier you get Law into play, the better, but you missed a land drop which did hurt. Decks like these where you get into can't attack situations are bad. You gotta trade some life points to gain some tempo. To be perfectly clear, I don't think that guy would have played that Zur Tar Ancient if you were at higher life points. Edit: You don't know the full scope of these kind of mistakes because simply you aren't presenting a board state for the opponent to evaluate. People play differently if you have different things out. So you just try and fix that mistake next time and consider your lines. If you ever played chess/checkers then this would seem very familiar to you. Lines of play are lines of play. It helped me at least. Your explanation about martial law sounds pretty good to me. In hindsight I think I would have put the cluestone and raptor out, then the guy with extort, then martial law (assuming nothing crazy different happened on the other end). Aside from that raptor mistake I feel like I played pretty well, though. I got a bit punished by my decision to go with a 3 color deck without more dual-color lands. I will have game 2 up soon as well. | ||
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