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On January 24 2013 09:00 MoonBear wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 08:58 JingleHell wrote:
I was told this thread also covers M:tG not-so-online as well. Is this correct?
I'm trying to get started playing, and holy fuck, the cards are hard to find. But I did find one of the ones with the really super rare red symbol thingy in one of the boosters that came with the only starter pack I could find. So I guess that's good. Yup, discussion of regular MtG here is fine too. Ah. You mean a Mythic rarity.
Yeah, that. The little "learn the game" deck didn't cover how to use it. It's a red card, Chandra the Firebrand. I kinda want to use the Sole Domination Black/White deck, because the black L2P deck was a blast, but they let me keep both, so I kind of plan to keep it around in case I build a red deck.
How, exactly, does she work? She doesn't have X/X in the bottom, just a black arrow with a number.
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Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On January 24 2013 09:05 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 09:00 MoonBear wrote:On January 24 2013 08:58 JingleHell wrote:
I was told this thread also covers M:tG not-so-online as well. Is this correct?
I'm trying to get started playing, and holy fuck, the cards are hard to find. But I did find one of the ones with the really super rare red symbol thingy in one of the boosters that came with the only starter pack I could find. So I guess that's good. Yup, discussion of regular MtG here is fine too. Ah. You mean a Mythic rarity. Yeah, that. The little "learn the game" deck didn't cover how to use it. It's a red card, Chandra the Firebrand. I kinda want to use the Sole Domination Black/White deck, because the black L2P deck was a blast, but they let me keep both, so I kind of plan to keep it around in case I build a red deck. How, exactly, does she work? She doesn't have X/X in the bottom, just a black arrow with a number.
Yeah. Chandra is a named character who's part of the MtG Storyline. She's a Planeswalker. It means she can walk between the universes (aka Planes) in the MtG universie (e.g. Ravnica, Dominaria, Kamigawa, etc.)
For rules and stuff, this explains it fairly well.
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She's a Planeswalker. Rules for them can be found here. Basically they have loyalty, which works a lot like your life total, and their abilities either add to or subtract from it. Creatures can attack them instead of you, damage from spells can be directed at them as well. They're not creatures for effects that target those.
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Ah, much thanks. So if I'm reading that stuff right, they're self-sustaining with their own unique resource, so it's like having a spare party member in an RPG sort of?
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Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On January 24 2013 09:17 JingleHell wrote:
Ah, much thanks. So if I'm reading that stuff right, they're self-sustaining with their own unique resource, so it's like having a spare party member in an RPG sort of?
Yup. Planeswalkers are like an pseudo-Enchantment that lets you do one cool effect each turn, and sometimes after a while you get to use their big ability. Sort of. Haha.
In story-terms, its like summoning one of the characters to fight with you. Adding Loyalty is doing stuff they like and charging up power. Removing Loyalty is taking away that energy. Also they they have a "Legendary" rule sort of thing.
Also, the emblems any Planeswalker creates (e.g. from Koth, Tamiyo, Venser, etc.) can't ever be removed or interacted with. They're always around. Even if you restart the game due to something like Planeswaler Karn's Ultimate you still keep the emblems until the end of the game.
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On January 24 2013 08:10 Kinie wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 04:47 Judicator wrote:
I have and I don't like AC in the control mirrors. I am probably going to go 2/2 split or even 2/1 in favor of AC since DC is covering my draw needs. Between AC and DC, I hope it will be fine. Yes I know what I said is contradictory but Think Twice is just so good in control mirrors. But DC doesn't draw you a card, it just filters the junk out of the top 3 so you can draw the card you want the most. In that aspect, Forbidden Alchemy is probably better at filtering your draws, as it digs one deeper and replaces itself with the card you want out of those 4. For what you need/want out of the deck, I think DC will be better than the Alchemy, but I find DC to be pretty underwhelming in most matchups.
DC has been fine, the problem with Alchemy is the turn 3, and the lack of a need to fetch for stuff, DC on the end of turn serves to filter my next draw.
Anyways AC has been terribly underwhelming.
Anyways, more MWS Rage Adventures.
+ Show Spoiler +<phizzix> i'm not fucking giving you permission for ev erything. <phizzix> fuck <System> Player Lost <System> Session Lost <System> Disconnected
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On January 24 2013 09:35 MoonBear wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 09:17 JingleHell wrote:
Ah, much thanks. So if I'm reading that stuff right, they're self-sustaining with their own unique resource, so it's like having a spare party member in an RPG sort of? Yup. Planeswalkers are like an pseudo-Enchantment that lets you do one cool effect each turn, and sometimes after a while you get to use their big ability. Sort of. Haha. In story-terms, its like summoning one of the characters to fight with you. Adding Loyalty is doing stuff they like and charging up power. Removing Loyalty is taking away that energy. Also they they have a "Legendary" rule sort of thing. Also, the emblems any Planeswalker creates (e.g. from Koth, Tamiyo, Venser, etc.) can't ever be removed or interacted with. They're always around. Even if you restart the game due to something like Planeswaler Karn's Ultimate you still keep the emblems until the end of the game.
Actually, emblems don't carry over if you restart the game with Karn (or if you start a subgame via whatever banned subgame card you are playing in a casual format, though the emblems will still exist in the main game)
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Urgh...everyone on MWS seems to want to play with Gatecrash, but since Gatecrash hasn't been released yet, there are no decks. And I am awful at building decks, or even tweaking them heavily. I just netdeck everything. At least I play Esper Control, so I can use the build from this thread as a starting point.
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On January 24 2013 18:30 Salivanth wrote:
Urgh...everyone on MWS seems to want to play with Gatecrash, but since Gatecrash hasn't been released yet, there are no decks. And I am awful at building decks, or even tweaking them heavily. I just netdeck everything. At least I play Esper Control, so I can use the build from this thread as a starting point.
Try something that exploits lines of play that they wouldn't normally be prepared for. You have no idea how big of blow outs cards like Rally the Peasants, Aetherize, and pit fight are prime examples. They're cards that don't normally see a high amount of play, so opponents tend to play right into them.
I can't tell you how many times when I was playing my old boros humans list, I would swing and they would block poorly and I would cast rally for lethal. Aetherize seems like it might be one of these cards because of the huge affect it has on the board instantly.
Also, I planned on coming back to play magic with this new set, but the fact you have to play Caverns to play boros humans and they're $25, and sacred foundary/CLifftops are going to be $10 each, I'd rather not drop $180 on just lands. Unless I can win a prerelease/release, and some draft I'm just chilling this set again.
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Hmm. So, would anyone be willing to take a look at the modifications I have made, and plan to make, to my deck, and see if I'm on the right track for making it a leaner, meaner version of itself?
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On January 25 2013 02:30 JingleHell wrote:
Hmm. So, would anyone be willing to take a look at the modifications I have made, and plan to make, to my deck, and see if I'm on the right track for making it a leaner, meaner version of itself?
More than welcome to post, when someone actually gets around to looking at it or posting it varies, but usually someone gets to take look at it.
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On January 25 2013 03:54 Judicator wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2013 02:30 JingleHell wrote:
Hmm. So, would anyone be willing to take a look at the modifications I have made, and plan to make, to my deck, and see if I'm on the right track for making it a leaner, meaner version of itself? More than welcome to post, when someone actually gets around to looking at it or posting it varies, but usually someone gets to take look at it.
Ok, so here is how the deck started out.
This is what it currently looks like, and what I'm currently considering adding/removing.
(By the way, if there's a better tool for free, I'd love to know, google spreadsheet is a little clunky)
The deck started it's life as an exalted deck, Black/White. I'm just trying to reinforce that, make the mana curve make some sense without shitty cards (like the walking corpses), make the spells make more sense, and increase my lifelink options a bit.
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On January 25 2013 04:36 JingleHell wrote:Ok, so here is how the deck started out. This is what it currently looks like, and what I'm currently considering adding/removing. (By the way, if there's a better tool for free, I'd love to know, google spreadsheet is a little clunky) The deck started it's life as an exalted deck, Black/White. I'm just trying to reinforce that, make the mana curve make some sense without shitty cards (like the walking corpses), make the spells make more sense, and increase my lifelink options a bit.
Check out a site like tappedout.net, as I know you can post decklists on there and look for feedback on it as well.
As for the deck itself, going Black/White (aka BW) Exalted is an odd choice, but I'll assume we are working on this deck because of budget concerns, based on how it came into being from a M13 Intro Deck. The main issue with an Exalted-style deck is that you are all-in on one creature, and there are a fair number of cheap spells in the other colors to kill/remove the creature from combat (Unsummon, Azorius Charm, and Searing Spear are the ones that jump to mind).
As for ways to improve upon it, you need to look for cards that either give Exalted, can benefit from being given several Exalted bonuses, or ways to clear up the field of blockers. We'll also look for spells that can protect your creatures with things such as Hexproof, Indestructibility, or Regeneration. The Ring of Xathrid is actually fine in your deck, as it makes our black creatures larger and gives them regeneration if they don't already have it. I agree with the plan of turning some of the basic lands into Cathedral of Wars, though I would turn the Reliquary Tower into one of those, as you should not be having issues of a cluttered/full hand.
The Ring of Evos Isle is an equipment that we can use to give our creatures hexproof, so it's worth considering. The Knights of Glory and Infamy should stay in the deck, as both give you early ways of dealing damage to the opponent. I will also suggest replacing the Bloodhunter Bat with the Daggerdrone Imp from RTR, as it is a 2 CMC and, after a turn, should deal as much damage attacking as the Bat's enter the battlefield trigger. The Walking Corpses should turn into Diregraf Ghouls, and the Guardians of Akrosa into another creature... Maybe something like Tormented Soul. In fact, Tormented Soul should be a 4-of in the deck, as it probably benefits the most from the Exalted mechanic in your colors. Liliana's Shade is an ok creature, but I feel it's a bit too expensive for what we are looking to do, so those should go and turn into something else.
Your "removal package" of Murder, Angelic Benediction, and Pacifism I am ok with, as our goal should be to try and get in the early damage and then keep their bigger threats from killing us. Another card to look at is Oblivion Ring, as it is another spell that can be both removal and a spell that can answer a difficult threat, such as a Planeswalker or piece of equipment.
Also, keep in mind that you have the option of using a 15 card sideboard, where after the first game you can make small changes to your deck with the cards from that sideboard. So if you don't have room in the main 60 for cards, put the others in the sideboard (for example, Oblivion Ring often makes a good, flexible, and powerful card to have in your sideboard).
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On January 25 2013 05:26 Kinie wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 25 2013 04:36 JingleHell wrote:Ok, so here is how the deck started out. This is what it currently looks like, and what I'm currently considering adding/removing. (By the way, if there's a better tool for free, I'd love to know, google spreadsheet is a little clunky) The deck started it's life as an exalted deck, Black/White. I'm just trying to reinforce that, make the mana curve make some sense without shitty cards (like the walking corpses), make the spells make more sense, and increase my lifelink options a bit. Check out a site like tappedout.net, as I know you can post decklists on there and look for feedback on it as well. As for the deck itself, going Black/White (aka BW) Exalted is an odd choice, but I'll assume we are working on this deck because of budget concerns, based on how it came into being from a M13 Intro Deck. The main issue with an Exalted-style deck is that you are all-in on one creature, and there are a fair number of cheap spells in the other colors to kill/remove the creature from combat (Unsummon, Azorius Charm, and Searing Spear are the ones that jump to mind). As for ways to improve upon it, you need to look for cards that either give Exalted, can benefit from being given several Exalted bonuses, or ways to clear up the field of blockers. We'll also look for spells that can protect your creatures with things such as Hexproof, Indestructibility, or Regeneration. The Ring of Xathrid is actually fine in your deck, as it makes our black creatures larger and gives them regeneration if they don't already have it. I agree with the plan of turning some of the basic lands into Cathedral of Wars, though I would turn the Reliquary Tower into one of those, as you should not be having issues of a cluttered/full hand. The Ring of Evos Isle is an equipment that we can use to give our creatures hexproof, so it's worth considering. The Knights of Glory and Infamy should stay in the deck, as both give you early ways of dealing damage to the opponent. I will also suggest replacing the Bloodhunter Bat with the Daggerdrone Imp from RTR, as it is a 2 CMC and, after a turn, should deal as much damage attacking as the Bat's enter the battlefield trigger. The Walking Corpses should turn into Diregraf Ghouls, and the Guardians of Akrosa into another creature... Maybe something like Tormented Soul. In fact, Tormented Soul should be a 4-of in the deck, as it probably benefits the most from the Exalted mechanic in your colors. Liliana's Shade is an ok creature, but I feel it's a bit too expensive for what we are looking to do, so those should go and turn into something else. Your "removal package" of Murder, Angelic Benediction, and Pacifism I am ok with, as our goal should be to try and get in the early damage and then keep their bigger threats from killing us. Another card to look at is Oblivion Ring, as it is another spell that can be both removal and a spell that can answer a difficult threat, such as a Planeswalker or piece of equipment. Also, keep in mind that you have the option of using a 15 card sideboard, where after the first game you can make small changes to your deck with the cards from that sideboard. So if you don't have room in the main 60 for cards, put the others in the sideboard (for example, Oblivion Ring often makes a good, flexible, and powerful card to have in your sideboard).
Thanks for the feedback. The main reason I was considering ditching the Ring of Xathrid is simple, and something you touched on: It's all your eggs, one basket. The exalted mechanic already does a lot of that, although it's all your eggs in any basket, which means creating a single "hey, better kill me now" creature seems disadvantageous.
The best success I had with it last night in it's stock incarnation was with a couple of exalted bonuses on a lifelink, pumping me up so far that when I had a 14 power trampler come at me, I just let it past my blockers and still won the game.
The Bloodhunter Bats are definitely one of the ones I'm leery about, since they're kind of meh aside from what they bring when I throw them in, I basically just use them for the "Enter the Battlefield", plus a flying blocker.
The tormented soul, I could definitely see adding more of. I was just unsure if I wanted to go too heavy on something without exalted, especially as a card that I'm liable to be dropping early for the low CMC and losing.
The Liliana's Shade is there to give me something I can throw mana at if I need a short term solution to a long term problem.
I was planning to lose the Knight of Glory for the extra Guardians because the Guardians are a good defensive unit, and I already have the Squires of Aven for a hard to block, 2 mana white.
The Diregraf ghouls to replace the Walking Corpses would make sense, but I was already planning to replace those with the Exalted, Regenerating Duty-Bound Dead, also only costing a single mana, and providing both some early and late game function within the deck, instead of just early.
As a blending of these, what would you say about swapping the Bloodhunters out for more Tormented Souls, and the Guardians/Knight of Glory for the Daggerdrome Imps, leaving the swap of Walking Corpses for Duty-Bound Dead?
I'm open to other changes as well, possibly, like ditching the Liliana's, but I wanted to at least explain my reasoning with them and see what you thought about it.
I do love the idea of the Daggerdromes.
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I personally like the idea of casting a Disciple of Bolas in your second Mainphase after you pumped a creature with exalted triggers.
Sublime Archangel and Lingering Souls are some things I would also consider.
You could also play a few launch parties to get some value back if an opponent tries to kill your only attacking creature.
I would definitely keep some Knights of Glory in. Xathrid Gorgon doesn't seem to fit the deck at all, neither do the Bloodhunter Bats. Reliquary Tower definitely has to go, and I don't think you want 4 Cathedrals of War, that's way too hard on your manabase, especially since you lack dual lands. Very few decks take the risk of running 4 colorless lands.
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On January 25 2013 06:13 spinesheath wrote:
I personally like the idea of casting a Disciple of Bolas in your second Mainphase after you pumped a creature with exalted triggers.
Sublime Archangel and Lingering Souls are some things I would also consider.
You could also play a few launch parties to get some value back if an opponent tries to kill your only attacking creature.
I would definitely keep some Knights of Glory in. Xathrid Gorgon doesn't seem to fit the deck at all, neither do the Bloodhunter Bats. Reliquary Tower definitely has to go, and I don't think you want 4 Cathedrals of War, that's way too hard on your manabase, especially since you lack dual lands. Very few decks take the risk of running 4 colorless lands.
If I was going to put in the Disciple (which does sound cute), wouldn't I actually want to keep the Reliquary Tower?
I guess capping the Cathedrals makes sense, if the colorless mana can only be colorless, which I guess is one of those details I missed. (Damnable newbieness, this is what I get for starting yesterday.)
The Gorgon is mostly just still there as a high CMC filler.
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Sublime archangel is *really good*.
Note that her giving all your creatures exalted includes those that already have it, essentially granting them double-exalted. That means that with just a duty bound dead, a knight of infamy and her out, you have 5 exalted triggers.
Another card that might work pretty well is Fencing ace. Sure, he doesn't give exalted but he basically doubles the effectiveness of all your exalted triggers.
Reliquary tower is pretty bad, you shouldn't have more than 7 cards in your hand and Black/White traditionally has awful mana.
If you can find/afford some dual lands that will produce black or white (godless shrine will be legal once gatecrash releases), then I'd try to fit in maybe 1 rogue's passage as a way to get that last hit in late game.
Just my thoughts.
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On January 25 2013 06:37 Sn0_Man wrote:
Sublime archangel is *really good*.
Note that her giving all your creatures exalted includes those that already have it, essentially granting them double-exalted. That means that with just a duty bound dead, a knight of infamy and her out, you have 5 exalted triggers.
Another card that might work pretty well is Fencing ace. Sure, he doesn't give exalted but he basically doubles the effectiveness of all your exalted triggers.
Reliquary tower is pretty bad, you shouldn't have more than 7 cards in your hand and Black/White traditionally has awful mana.
If you can find/afford some dual lands that will produce black or white (godless shrine will be legal once gatecrash releases), then I'd try to fit in maybe 1 rogue's passage as a way to get that last hit in late game.
Just my thoughts.
She's also *really expensive*. So unless I have some sort of absurd luck and get something worth some value trading, (my only two worth more than pennies now are a Dragonskull Summit and a Chandra, the Firebrand), she's a possibly later type. I definitely wish I had one or two though.
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Jinglehell,
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/add/ is a sweet site for posting decks and shouldn't be hard to use. A lot cleaner than a spreadsheet
For deck advise, I also recommend picking up more of the Knights of Glory/Infamy, Disciple of Bolas, and Fencing Ace. I wouldn't be surprised if you could just ask someone who's been playing a long time for those cards, at least those minus the Disciple. (if you played online I'd just give them to you ;p) Knight of Glory/Infamy is powerful in the same way as Guardians of Akrasa because they are also good defensively, since they will totally shut down a black/white creature, while contributing with Exalted, but they can also attack for 3 by themselves if it comes down to that.
After those, I would look into ways to protect your creatures, so when you attack with a Fencing Ace and 4 exalted triggers, it doesn't get scorched with a Searing Spear and ruin your whole game. Maybe something like Faith's Shield? Ring of Xathrid might be okay for this role too, and there might be some cards I'm forgetting. One of the fun things about deckbuilding is looking through pages on a site like http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Default.aspx and finding sweet cards you've never thought of before, give it a shot :D
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EPT
