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Judicator
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States7270 Posts
January 22 2013 20:50 GMT
#5501
There's no point to running creatures, why tap out at all when you can just kill them safely in usually 3 turns anyways. Lack of win-cons mean very little when the deck can do a pretty job of putting themselves in a situation where the opponent can't do much.
Get it by your hands...
Kinie
Profile Joined December 2011
United States3106 Posts
January 22 2013 23:20 GMT
#5502
Fair enough. It's just a personal preference of mine to not have so few win-cons.

In other news, Cube is coming back.... and so is Zendikar draft. http://wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/other/01222013D
EMIYA
Profile Joined March 2011
United States433 Posts
January 22 2013 23:37 GMT
#5503
damnit i love cube. can't wait for the sneak attack eldrazi
Shotcoder
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States2316 Posts
January 23 2013 00:26 GMT
#5504
On January 23 2013 05:08 Kinie wrote:
So I've been brewing some possible decks for Gatecrash standard, testing it vs. my Naya list, and I'm noticing that most control decks have a serious lack of win-cons right now. So far the only consistent one is the mill plan with Drownyards and Memory Adepts, and just drawing a million cards and nuking the board over and over again. Maybe I'm missing something in my brewing, but did Control decks losing Sun Titan and/or Phantasmal Images really cut the win-cons to almost none?

Also, Boros Aggro is indeed a thing, and Firemane Avenger is slightly better than I thought it would be. Also, Ball Lightning Helix is the nut in that list.



What Judicator said. You now have a super safe win con in Drownyard in a format where most decks can't skimp on colors for ghost quarters. it's safer, more consistent, and lets you control the game better with mana availability. I would say this is one of the better win cons for control since Jace and Squadron Hawk.
Shotcoder - C+ BW Terran, Gold LoL(ADC Main)
Risen
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States7927 Posts
January 23 2013 03:50 GMT
#5505
Alrighty, 3 solo events I'm signed up as Boros and for the 2HG I'm orzhov with a dimir partner. We'll see how this goes.
Pufftrees Everyday>its like a rifter that just used X-Factor/Liquid'Nony: I hope no one lip read XD/Holyflare>it's like policy lynching but better/Resident Los Angeles bachelor
NotSorry
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States6722 Posts
January 23 2013 04:26 GMT
#5506
orzhov/dimir 2hg sounds brutal between mill and extort
We have now sunk to a depth at which restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. - Orwell
Judicator
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States7270 Posts
January 23 2013 04:49 GMT
#5507
So the list that I am running:

+ Show Spoiler +

// Lands
4 [ISD] Isolated Chapel
4 [M13] Drowned Catacomb
3 [M13] Glacial Fortress
3 [RTR] Hallowed Fountain
2 [RTR] Island (1)
1 [AVR] Swamp (3)
1 [M13] Plains (4)
4 [GTC] Watery Grave
3 [ISD] Nephalia Drownyard
2 [GTC] Godless Shrine

// Creatures
3 [ISD] Snapcaster Mage
1 [M13] Augur of Bolas

// Spells
4 [RTR] Sphinx's Revelation
2 [DKA] Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
2 [AVR] Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
1 [RTR] Jace, Architect of Thought
4 [RTR] Supreme Verdict
1 [RTR] Ultimate Price
2 [ISD] Dissipate
3 [M13] Jace, Memory Adept
1 [RTR] Detention Sphere
3 [ISD] Think Twice
1 [GTC] Devour Flesh
1 [GTC] Orzhov Charm
3 [GTC] Dimir Charm
1 [DKA] Tragic Slip

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [M13] Oblivion Ring
SB: 2 [GTC] Devour Flesh
SB: 1 [M13] Duress
SB: 3 [AVR] Terminus
SB: 1 [RTR] Dispel
SB: 1 [M13] Negate
SB: 2 [RTR] Cyclonic Rift
SB: 1 [DKA] Curse of Echoes
SB: 1 [ISD] Ghost Quarter
SB: 1 [GTC] Merciless Eviction
SB: 1 [M13] Essence Scatter



Some more simple testing means I need to test some more, and learn sideboarding. Losing close games to sideboarding, eviction has been underwhelming.
Get it by your hands...
Kinie
Profile Joined December 2011
United States3106 Posts
January 23 2013 07:29 GMT
#5508
On January 23 2013 13:49 Judicator wrote:
So the list that I am running:

+ Show Spoiler +

// Lands
4 [ISD] Isolated Chapel
4 [M13] Drowned Catacomb
3 [M13] Glacial Fortress
3 [RTR] Hallowed Fountain
2 [RTR] Island (1)
1 [AVR] Swamp (3)
1 [M13] Plains (4)
4 [GTC] Watery Grave
3 [ISD] Nephalia Drownyard
2 [GTC] Godless Shrine

// Creatures
3 [ISD] Snapcaster Mage
1 [M13] Augur of Bolas

// Spells
4 [RTR] Sphinx's Revelation
2 [DKA] Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
2 [AVR] Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
1 [RTR] Jace, Architect of Thought
4 [RTR] Supreme Verdict
1 [RTR] Ultimate Price
2 [ISD] Dissipate
3 [M13] Jace, Memory Adept
1 [RTR] Detention Sphere
3 [ISD] Think Twice
1 [GTC] Devour Flesh
1 [GTC] Orzhov Charm
3 [GTC] Dimir Charm
1 [DKA] Tragic Slip

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [M13] Oblivion Ring
SB: 2 [GTC] Devour Flesh
SB: 1 [M13] Duress
SB: 3 [AVR] Terminus
SB: 1 [RTR] Dispel
SB: 1 [M13] Negate
SB: 2 [RTR] Cyclonic Rift
SB: 1 [DKA] Curse of Echoes
SB: 1 [ISD] Ghost Quarter
SB: 1 [GTC] Merciless Eviction
SB: 1 [M13] Essence Scatter



Some more simple testing means I need to test some more, and learn sideboarding. Losing close games to sideboarding, eviction has been underwhelming.


Took your list and put it up against mine. In the pre-boarded games I think you're slightly favored vs. Naya, but post-board I feel like a pretty huge underdog due to your infinite number of sweepers, and my few cards that give me reach (Aurelia's Fury, Bonfire, Skullcrack, and Boros Charm) require me to draw them and not get milled by Jace.

I'm just glad that my thought process of having a few haste creatures that can potentially one-shot a planeswalker are right (Thundermaw, Zealous Conscripts, and Aurelia).
Judicator
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States7270 Posts
January 23 2013 14:33 GMT
#5509
I need to tweak the removal package some more and really need to find space for Azorious Charm. In other news, Dmir Charm is on the stupid good tier for constructed.
Get it by your hands...
Risen
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States7927 Posts
January 23 2013 15:49 GMT
#5510
On January 23 2013 23:33 Judicator wrote:
I need to tweak the removal package some more and really need to find space for Azorious Charm. In other news, Dmir Charm is on the stupid good tier for constructed.


Do you think dimir charm will see modern play? Or do you just mean it is stupid good for standard?
Pufftrees Everyday>its like a rifter that just used X-Factor/Liquid'Nony: I hope no one lip read XD/Holyflare>it's like policy lynching but better/Resident Los Angeles bachelor
MoonBear
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
January 23 2013 15:59 GMT
#5511
On January 24 2013 00:49 Risen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 23 2013 23:33 Judicator wrote:
I need to tweak the removal package some more and really need to find space for Azorious Charm. In other news, Dmir Charm is on the stupid good tier for constructed.


Do you think dimir charm will see modern play? Or do you just mean it is stupid good for standard?

Hits Lingering Souls, kills Deathrite/Manadorks/some manlands, also lets you dig. I can see it being used, but probably not as a 4-of.
ModeratorA dream. Do you have one that has cursed you like that? Or maybe... a wish?
Judicator
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States7270 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-23 16:10:20
January 23 2013 16:02 GMT
#5512
No idea for Modern. The reason I say this is that saves so much deck space. That card has never been dead in my hand. Counter/Kill is already pretty good at in most situations, but the filter my draw aspect just puts it over when you are looking for a specific answer.

Edit:

Like in testing last night. I stole the play against Jund/Naya decks by killing their mana dork on 2, countered Bant's Farseek to keep them from taking the play from me, countered Bonfires, and just filtered my draw in game 1s to throw away dead cards once I knew the match up and filtered theirs in game 2s/3s when I had them locked or near locked.

Edit2:

I also think that DC is best in a Delver build though.
Get it by your hands...
deth2munkies
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4051 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-23 18:30:20
January 23 2013 18:28 GMT
#5513
Only 1 card this expansion looks decent for WW pauper: Syndic of Tithes.

Gives you reach even though it's just a 2/2 for 2. You tend to play a lot of spells that are quite cheap, so having something to do with the extra mana when your hand is empty is awesome. Problem being you normally want to be spending all your mana on creatures/bonesplitters early, so I'd have to test it to be sure.

If only Guildscorn Ward was hybrid it'd be perfect with Guardian of the Guildpact (Protection from Everything).
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
January 23 2013 18:34 GMT
#5514
On January 24 2013 03:28 deth2munkies wrote:
Only 1 card this expansion looks decent for WW pauper: Syndic of Tithes.

Gives you reach even though it's just a 2/2 for 2. You tend to play a lot of spells that are quite cheap, so having something to do with the extra mana when your hand is empty is awesome. Problem being you normally want to be spending all your mana on creatures/bonesplitters early, so I'd have to test it to be sure.

If only Guildscorn Ward was hybrid it'd be perfect with Guardian of the Guildpact (Protection from Everything).


Ghostfire says hi.

I actually saw a post deck board it in recently.
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
Kinie
Profile Joined December 2011
United States3106 Posts
January 23 2013 18:50 GMT
#5515
On January 24 2013 01:02 Judicator wrote:
No idea for Modern. The reason I say this is that saves so much deck space. That card has never been dead in my hand. Counter/Kill is already pretty good at in most situations, but the filter my draw aspect just puts it over when you are looking for a specific answer.

Edit:

Like in testing last night. I stole the play against Jund/Naya decks by killing their mana dork on 2, countered Bant's Farseek to keep them from taking the play from me, countered Bonfires, and just filtered my draw in game 1s to throw away dead cards once I knew the match up and filtered theirs in game 2s/3s when I had them locked or near locked.

Edit2:

I also think that DC is best in a Delver build though.


Have you thought about turning the Think Twices into the Azorius Charms? When I was durdling with your deck there were situations where the Think Twice was in my hand and I needed to remove an attacker to survive and use the Verdict in my hand on the untap.
deth2munkies
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4051 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-23 18:59:39
January 23 2013 18:54 GMT
#5516
On January 24 2013 03:34 Sn0_Man wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 24 2013 03:28 deth2munkies wrote:
Only 1 card this expansion looks decent for WW pauper: Syndic of Tithes.

Gives you reach even though it's just a 2/2 for 2. You tend to play a lot of spells that are quite cheap, so having something to do with the extra mana when your hand is empty is awesome. Problem being you normally want to be spending all your mana on creatures/bonesplitters early, so I'd have to test it to be sure.

If only Guildscorn Ward was hybrid it'd be perfect with Guardian of the Guildpact (Protection from Everything).


Ghostfire says hi.

I actually saw a post deck board it in recently.

Ghostfire, Serrated Arrows, and Crystallization are he 3 things he doesn't like. Never saw Ghostfire put in Izzet post though. Usually Bolt and Flame Slash keep them alive long enough to get a billion mana since there's nothing I can really do about it.

Edicts also go without saying, but he's almost never your only creature out.
Judicator
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States7270 Posts
January 23 2013 19:47 GMT
#5517
On January 24 2013 03:50 Kinie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 24 2013 01:02 Judicator wrote:
No idea for Modern. The reason I say this is that saves so much deck space. That card has never been dead in my hand. Counter/Kill is already pretty good at in most situations, but the filter my draw aspect just puts it over when you are looking for a specific answer.

Edit:

Like in testing last night. I stole the play against Jund/Naya decks by killing their mana dork on 2, countered Bant's Farseek to keep them from taking the play from me, countered Bonfires, and just filtered my draw in game 1s to throw away dead cards once I knew the match up and filtered theirs in game 2s/3s when I had them locked or near locked.

Edit2:

I also think that DC is best in a Delver build though.


Have you thought about turning the Think Twices into the Azorius Charms? When I was durdling with your deck there were situations where the Think Twice was in my hand and I needed to remove an attacker to survive and use the Verdict in my hand on the untap.


I have and I don't like AC in the control mirrors. I am probably going to go 2/2 split or even 2/1 in favor of AC since DC is covering my draw needs. Between AC and DC, I hope it will be fine. Yes I know what I said is contradictory but Think Twice is just so good in control mirrors.
Get it by your hands...
Kinie
Profile Joined December 2011
United States3106 Posts
January 23 2013 23:10 GMT
#5518
On January 24 2013 04:47 Judicator wrote:

I have and I don't like AC in the control mirrors. I am probably going to go 2/2 split or even 2/1 in favor of AC since DC is covering my draw needs. Between AC and DC, I hope it will be fine. Yes I know what I said is contradictory but Think Twice is just so good in control mirrors.


But DC doesn't draw you a card, it just filters the junk out of the top 3 so you can draw the card you want the most. In that aspect, Forbidden Alchemy is probably better at filtering your draws, as it digs one deeper and replaces itself with the card you want out of those 4. For what you need/want out of the deck, I think DC will be better than the Alchemy, but I find DC to be pretty underwhelming in most matchups.
JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
January 23 2013 23:58 GMT
#5519
I was told this thread also covers M:tG not-so-online as well. Is this correct?

I'm trying to get started playing, and holy fuck, the cards are hard to find. But I did find one of the ones with the really super rare red symbol thingy in one of the boosters that came with the only starter pack I could find. So I guess that's good.
MoonBear
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
January 24 2013 00:00 GMT
#5520
On January 24 2013 08:58 JingleHell wrote:
I was told this thread also covers M:tG not-so-online as well. Is this correct?

I'm trying to get started playing, and holy fuck, the cards are hard to find. But I did find one of the ones with the really super rare red symbol thingy in one of the boosters that came with the only starter pack I could find. So I guess that's good.

Yup, discussion of regular MtG here is fine too.

Ah. You mean a Mythic rarity.
ModeratorA dream. Do you have one that has cursed you like that? Or maybe... a wish?
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