• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:08
CEST 15:08
KST 22:08
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun7[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Inheritors16[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt2: All Star10Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists19[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Fresh Flow9
Community News
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers25Maestros of the Game 2 announced92026 GSL Tour plans announced15Weekly Cups (April 6-12): herO doubles, "Villains" prevail1MaNa leaves Team Liquid25
StarCraft 2
General
Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists MaNa leaves Team Liquid Maestros of the Game 2 announced
Tourneys
GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) FSL Season 10 Individual Championship WardiTV Spring Cup 2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 523 Firewall Mutation # 522 Flip My Base Mutation # 521 Memorable Boss
Brood War
General
ASL21 General Discussion JaeDong's ASL S21 Ro16 Post-Review BW General Discussion Leta's ASL S21 Ro.16 review [ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Inheritors
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro8 Day 1 Korean KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2 [ASL21] Ro8 Day 2 [BSL22] RO16 Group Stage - 02 - 10 May
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
Daigo vs Menard Best of 10 Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV Diablo IV
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread 3D technology/software discussion Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion McBoner: A hockey love story
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Sexual Health Of Gamers
TrAiDoS
lurker extra damage testi…
StaticNine
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1517 users

Magic: The Gathering - Page 276

Forum Index > General Games
Post a Reply
Prev 1 274 275 276 277 278 665 Next
Judicator
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States7270 Posts
January 22 2013 20:50 GMT
#5501
There's no point to running creatures, why tap out at all when you can just kill them safely in usually 3 turns anyways. Lack of win-cons mean very little when the deck can do a pretty job of putting themselves in a situation where the opponent can't do much.
Get it by your hands...
Kinie
Profile Joined December 2011
United States3106 Posts
January 22 2013 23:20 GMT
#5502
Fair enough. It's just a personal preference of mine to not have so few win-cons.

In other news, Cube is coming back.... and so is Zendikar draft. http://wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/other/01222013D
EMIYA
Profile Joined March 2011
United States433 Posts
January 22 2013 23:37 GMT
#5503
damnit i love cube. can't wait for the sneak attack eldrazi
Shotcoder
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States2316 Posts
January 23 2013 00:26 GMT
#5504
On January 23 2013 05:08 Kinie wrote:
So I've been brewing some possible decks for Gatecrash standard, testing it vs. my Naya list, and I'm noticing that most control decks have a serious lack of win-cons right now. So far the only consistent one is the mill plan with Drownyards and Memory Adepts, and just drawing a million cards and nuking the board over and over again. Maybe I'm missing something in my brewing, but did Control decks losing Sun Titan and/or Phantasmal Images really cut the win-cons to almost none?

Also, Boros Aggro is indeed a thing, and Firemane Avenger is slightly better than I thought it would be. Also, Ball Lightning Helix is the nut in that list.



What Judicator said. You now have a super safe win con in Drownyard in a format where most decks can't skimp on colors for ghost quarters. it's safer, more consistent, and lets you control the game better with mana availability. I would say this is one of the better win cons for control since Jace and Squadron Hawk.
Shotcoder - C+ BW Terran, Gold LoL(ADC Main)
Risen
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States7927 Posts
January 23 2013 03:50 GMT
#5505
Alrighty, 3 solo events I'm signed up as Boros and for the 2HG I'm orzhov with a dimir partner. We'll see how this goes.
Pufftrees Everyday>its like a rifter that just used X-Factor/Liquid'Nony: I hope no one lip read XD/Holyflare>it's like policy lynching but better/Resident Los Angeles bachelor
NotSorry
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States6722 Posts
January 23 2013 04:26 GMT
#5506
orzhov/dimir 2hg sounds brutal between mill and extort
We have now sunk to a depth at which restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. - Orwell
Judicator
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States7270 Posts
January 23 2013 04:49 GMT
#5507
So the list that I am running:

+ Show Spoiler +

// Lands
4 [ISD] Isolated Chapel
4 [M13] Drowned Catacomb
3 [M13] Glacial Fortress
3 [RTR] Hallowed Fountain
2 [RTR] Island (1)
1 [AVR] Swamp (3)
1 [M13] Plains (4)
4 [GTC] Watery Grave
3 [ISD] Nephalia Drownyard
2 [GTC] Godless Shrine

// Creatures
3 [ISD] Snapcaster Mage
1 [M13] Augur of Bolas

// Spells
4 [RTR] Sphinx's Revelation
2 [DKA] Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
2 [AVR] Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
1 [RTR] Jace, Architect of Thought
4 [RTR] Supreme Verdict
1 [RTR] Ultimate Price
2 [ISD] Dissipate
3 [M13] Jace, Memory Adept
1 [RTR] Detention Sphere
3 [ISD] Think Twice
1 [GTC] Devour Flesh
1 [GTC] Orzhov Charm
3 [GTC] Dimir Charm
1 [DKA] Tragic Slip

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [M13] Oblivion Ring
SB: 2 [GTC] Devour Flesh
SB: 1 [M13] Duress
SB: 3 [AVR] Terminus
SB: 1 [RTR] Dispel
SB: 1 [M13] Negate
SB: 2 [RTR] Cyclonic Rift
SB: 1 [DKA] Curse of Echoes
SB: 1 [ISD] Ghost Quarter
SB: 1 [GTC] Merciless Eviction
SB: 1 [M13] Essence Scatter



Some more simple testing means I need to test some more, and learn sideboarding. Losing close games to sideboarding, eviction has been underwhelming.
Get it by your hands...
Kinie
Profile Joined December 2011
United States3106 Posts
January 23 2013 07:29 GMT
#5508
On January 23 2013 13:49 Judicator wrote:
So the list that I am running:

+ Show Spoiler +

// Lands
4 [ISD] Isolated Chapel
4 [M13] Drowned Catacomb
3 [M13] Glacial Fortress
3 [RTR] Hallowed Fountain
2 [RTR] Island (1)
1 [AVR] Swamp (3)
1 [M13] Plains (4)
4 [GTC] Watery Grave
3 [ISD] Nephalia Drownyard
2 [GTC] Godless Shrine

// Creatures
3 [ISD] Snapcaster Mage
1 [M13] Augur of Bolas

// Spells
4 [RTR] Sphinx's Revelation
2 [DKA] Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
2 [AVR] Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
1 [RTR] Jace, Architect of Thought
4 [RTR] Supreme Verdict
1 [RTR] Ultimate Price
2 [ISD] Dissipate
3 [M13] Jace, Memory Adept
1 [RTR] Detention Sphere
3 [ISD] Think Twice
1 [GTC] Devour Flesh
1 [GTC] Orzhov Charm
3 [GTC] Dimir Charm
1 [DKA] Tragic Slip

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [M13] Oblivion Ring
SB: 2 [GTC] Devour Flesh
SB: 1 [M13] Duress
SB: 3 [AVR] Terminus
SB: 1 [RTR] Dispel
SB: 1 [M13] Negate
SB: 2 [RTR] Cyclonic Rift
SB: 1 [DKA] Curse of Echoes
SB: 1 [ISD] Ghost Quarter
SB: 1 [GTC] Merciless Eviction
SB: 1 [M13] Essence Scatter



Some more simple testing means I need to test some more, and learn sideboarding. Losing close games to sideboarding, eviction has been underwhelming.


Took your list and put it up against mine. In the pre-boarded games I think you're slightly favored vs. Naya, but post-board I feel like a pretty huge underdog due to your infinite number of sweepers, and my few cards that give me reach (Aurelia's Fury, Bonfire, Skullcrack, and Boros Charm) require me to draw them and not get milled by Jace.

I'm just glad that my thought process of having a few haste creatures that can potentially one-shot a planeswalker are right (Thundermaw, Zealous Conscripts, and Aurelia).
Judicator
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States7270 Posts
January 23 2013 14:33 GMT
#5509
I need to tweak the removal package some more and really need to find space for Azorious Charm. In other news, Dmir Charm is on the stupid good tier for constructed.
Get it by your hands...
Risen
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States7927 Posts
January 23 2013 15:49 GMT
#5510
On January 23 2013 23:33 Judicator wrote:
I need to tweak the removal package some more and really need to find space for Azorious Charm. In other news, Dmir Charm is on the stupid good tier for constructed.


Do you think dimir charm will see modern play? Or do you just mean it is stupid good for standard?
Pufftrees Everyday>its like a rifter that just used X-Factor/Liquid'Nony: I hope no one lip read XD/Holyflare>it's like policy lynching but better/Resident Los Angeles bachelor
MoonBear
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
January 23 2013 15:59 GMT
#5511
On January 24 2013 00:49 Risen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 23 2013 23:33 Judicator wrote:
I need to tweak the removal package some more and really need to find space for Azorious Charm. In other news, Dmir Charm is on the stupid good tier for constructed.


Do you think dimir charm will see modern play? Or do you just mean it is stupid good for standard?

Hits Lingering Souls, kills Deathrite/Manadorks/some manlands, also lets you dig. I can see it being used, but probably not as a 4-of.
ModeratorA dream. Do you have one that has cursed you like that? Or maybe... a wish?
Judicator
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States7270 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-23 16:10:20
January 23 2013 16:02 GMT
#5512
No idea for Modern. The reason I say this is that saves so much deck space. That card has never been dead in my hand. Counter/Kill is already pretty good at in most situations, but the filter my draw aspect just puts it over when you are looking for a specific answer.

Edit:

Like in testing last night. I stole the play against Jund/Naya decks by killing their mana dork on 2, countered Bant's Farseek to keep them from taking the play from me, countered Bonfires, and just filtered my draw in game 1s to throw away dead cards once I knew the match up and filtered theirs in game 2s/3s when I had them locked or near locked.

Edit2:

I also think that DC is best in a Delver build though.
Get it by your hands...
deth2munkies
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4051 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-23 18:30:20
January 23 2013 18:28 GMT
#5513
Only 1 card this expansion looks decent for WW pauper: Syndic of Tithes.

Gives you reach even though it's just a 2/2 for 2. You tend to play a lot of spells that are quite cheap, so having something to do with the extra mana when your hand is empty is awesome. Problem being you normally want to be spending all your mana on creatures/bonesplitters early, so I'd have to test it to be sure.

If only Guildscorn Ward was hybrid it'd be perfect with Guardian of the Guildpact (Protection from Everything).
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
January 23 2013 18:34 GMT
#5514
On January 24 2013 03:28 deth2munkies wrote:
Only 1 card this expansion looks decent for WW pauper: Syndic of Tithes.

Gives you reach even though it's just a 2/2 for 2. You tend to play a lot of spells that are quite cheap, so having something to do with the extra mana when your hand is empty is awesome. Problem being you normally want to be spending all your mana on creatures/bonesplitters early, so I'd have to test it to be sure.

If only Guildscorn Ward was hybrid it'd be perfect with Guardian of the Guildpact (Protection from Everything).


Ghostfire says hi.

I actually saw a post deck board it in recently.
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
Kinie
Profile Joined December 2011
United States3106 Posts
January 23 2013 18:50 GMT
#5515
On January 24 2013 01:02 Judicator wrote:
No idea for Modern. The reason I say this is that saves so much deck space. That card has never been dead in my hand. Counter/Kill is already pretty good at in most situations, but the filter my draw aspect just puts it over when you are looking for a specific answer.

Edit:

Like in testing last night. I stole the play against Jund/Naya decks by killing their mana dork on 2, countered Bant's Farseek to keep them from taking the play from me, countered Bonfires, and just filtered my draw in game 1s to throw away dead cards once I knew the match up and filtered theirs in game 2s/3s when I had them locked or near locked.

Edit2:

I also think that DC is best in a Delver build though.


Have you thought about turning the Think Twices into the Azorius Charms? When I was durdling with your deck there were situations where the Think Twice was in my hand and I needed to remove an attacker to survive and use the Verdict in my hand on the untap.
deth2munkies
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4051 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-23 18:59:39
January 23 2013 18:54 GMT
#5516
On January 24 2013 03:34 Sn0_Man wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 24 2013 03:28 deth2munkies wrote:
Only 1 card this expansion looks decent for WW pauper: Syndic of Tithes.

Gives you reach even though it's just a 2/2 for 2. You tend to play a lot of spells that are quite cheap, so having something to do with the extra mana when your hand is empty is awesome. Problem being you normally want to be spending all your mana on creatures/bonesplitters early, so I'd have to test it to be sure.

If only Guildscorn Ward was hybrid it'd be perfect with Guardian of the Guildpact (Protection from Everything).


Ghostfire says hi.

I actually saw a post deck board it in recently.

Ghostfire, Serrated Arrows, and Crystallization are he 3 things he doesn't like. Never saw Ghostfire put in Izzet post though. Usually Bolt and Flame Slash keep them alive long enough to get a billion mana since there's nothing I can really do about it.

Edicts also go without saying, but he's almost never your only creature out.
Judicator
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States7270 Posts
January 23 2013 19:47 GMT
#5517
On January 24 2013 03:50 Kinie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 24 2013 01:02 Judicator wrote:
No idea for Modern. The reason I say this is that saves so much deck space. That card has never been dead in my hand. Counter/Kill is already pretty good at in most situations, but the filter my draw aspect just puts it over when you are looking for a specific answer.

Edit:

Like in testing last night. I stole the play against Jund/Naya decks by killing their mana dork on 2, countered Bant's Farseek to keep them from taking the play from me, countered Bonfires, and just filtered my draw in game 1s to throw away dead cards once I knew the match up and filtered theirs in game 2s/3s when I had them locked or near locked.

Edit2:

I also think that DC is best in a Delver build though.


Have you thought about turning the Think Twices into the Azorius Charms? When I was durdling with your deck there were situations where the Think Twice was in my hand and I needed to remove an attacker to survive and use the Verdict in my hand on the untap.


I have and I don't like AC in the control mirrors. I am probably going to go 2/2 split or even 2/1 in favor of AC since DC is covering my draw needs. Between AC and DC, I hope it will be fine. Yes I know what I said is contradictory but Think Twice is just so good in control mirrors.
Get it by your hands...
Kinie
Profile Joined December 2011
United States3106 Posts
January 23 2013 23:10 GMT
#5518
On January 24 2013 04:47 Judicator wrote:

I have and I don't like AC in the control mirrors. I am probably going to go 2/2 split or even 2/1 in favor of AC since DC is covering my draw needs. Between AC and DC, I hope it will be fine. Yes I know what I said is contradictory but Think Twice is just so good in control mirrors.


But DC doesn't draw you a card, it just filters the junk out of the top 3 so you can draw the card you want the most. In that aspect, Forbidden Alchemy is probably better at filtering your draws, as it digs one deeper and replaces itself with the card you want out of those 4. For what you need/want out of the deck, I think DC will be better than the Alchemy, but I find DC to be pretty underwhelming in most matchups.
JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
January 23 2013 23:58 GMT
#5519
I was told this thread also covers M:tG not-so-online as well. Is this correct?

I'm trying to get started playing, and holy fuck, the cards are hard to find. But I did find one of the ones with the really super rare red symbol thingy in one of the boosters that came with the only starter pack I could find. So I guess that's good.
MoonBear
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
January 24 2013 00:00 GMT
#5520
On January 24 2013 08:58 JingleHell wrote:
I was told this thread also covers M:tG not-so-online as well. Is this correct?

I'm trying to get started playing, and holy fuck, the cards are hard to find. But I did find one of the ones with the really super rare red symbol thingy in one of the boosters that came with the only starter pack I could find. So I guess that's good.

Yup, discussion of regular MtG here is fine too.

Ah. You mean a Mythic rarity.
ModeratorA dream. Do you have one that has cursed you like that? Or maybe... a wish?
Prev 1 274 275 276 277 278 665 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 10h 52m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Ryung 283
Hui .183
BRAT_OK 82
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 8950
Sea 3643
Jaedong 1603
Mini 600
firebathero 564
Hyuk 502
Stork 317
EffOrt 254
Rush 240
actioN 233
[ Show more ]
Snow 228
Last 210
ggaemo 129
ProTech125
Hyun 106
ZerO 93
hero 78
ToSsGirL 52
[sc1f]eonzerg 52
Free 47
sSak 36
Pusan 35
Bale 23
Backho 23
Movie 22
soO 21
JYJ 18
scan(afreeca) 15
GoRush 14
IntoTheRainbow 13
Shine 12
Sexy 11
Dota 2
Gorgc840
qojqva682
XcaliburYe141
Counter-Strike
olofmeister3427
x6flipin470
byalli444
allub383
kRYSTAL_13
Other Games
singsing1005
B2W.Neo927
crisheroes272
DeMusliM220
XaKoH 187
Mew2King49
ZerO(Twitch)7
Organizations
StarCraft 2
IntoTheiNu 286
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream90
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP46
• StrangeGG 29
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Kozan
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota245
League of Legends
• Nemesis1649
• Jankos1163
• TFBlade814
Other Games
• WagamamaTV115
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
10h 52m
GSL
20h 22m
Cure vs TriGGeR
ByuN vs Bunny
KCM Race Survival
20h 52m
Big Gabe
22h 52m
Replay Cast
1d 10h
Replay Cast
1d 19h
Escore
1d 20h
OSC
1d 23h
Replay Cast
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
2 days
IPSL
3 days
Ret vs Art_Of_Turtle
Radley vs TBD
BSL
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
BSL
4 days
IPSL
4 days
eOnzErG vs TBD
G5 vs Nesh
Replay Cast
4 days
Wardi Open
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Jaedong vs Light
Monday Night Weeklies
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
Snow vs Flash
GSL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-04-28
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
2026 GSL S1
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W5
KK 2v2 League Season 1
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
RSL Revival: Season 5
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.