• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 05:13
CEST 11:13
KST 18:13
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2914Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16)44Reynor: GSL Loss Wasn't About Preparation Format16[IPSL] Spring 2026 Grand Finals - This Weekend!5Weekly Cups (July 6 - 12): Protoss strike back12BSL Season 22 Full Overview & Conclusion8
StarCraft 2
General
Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) [D] Wireframe Casting Removed Clem: "I don't have that much hope in Blizzard" Reynor: GSL Loss Wasn't About Preparation Format Is the larve respawn broken?
Tourneys
Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) WardiTV Summer Cup 2026 GSL CK #5 Race War RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event HomeStory Cup 29
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 534 Burning Evacuation Mutation # 533 Die Together Mutation # 532 Nuclear Family
Brood War
General
ASL22 General Discussion BW General Discussion Pros Debate: Zerg Unfairly Nerfed? (ASL S22 map) Etiquete rules in Asl? Recent recommended BW games
Tourneys
Escore Tournament - Season 3 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [IPSL] Spring 2026 Grand Finals - This Weekend!
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Beyond All Reason Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Russo-Ukrainian War Thread UK Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The HerO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread MLB/Baseball 2023 McBoner: A hockey love story Tennis[sport] Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard?
TL Community
Northern Ireland Global Starcraft The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Poker (part 2)
Nebuchad
The Experiences We Want and …
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7692 users

Magic: The Gathering - Page 260

Forum Index > General Games
Post a Reply
Prev 1 258 259 260 261 262 665 Next
Kinie
Profile Joined December 2011
United States3106 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-02 13:39:18
January 02 2013 13:38 GMT
#5181
Maybe it's just me, but does anyone else notice how R&D has been pushing for more expensive spells in Standard since M12? For me, I think that from Alara block to New Phyrexia they were experimenting with pushing the limit on how low they could cost certain types of spells (mainly cheap, effective ones and aggressively-costed creatures with immediate impact on the board), and after seeing how things can be, they are now going to tweak the bar slightly the other way and seeing how far they can go before people notice it.

For example; since Alara block we've always had a cheap, effective card cycler (Preordain, Ponder), cheap removal (Lightning Bolt, Path to Exile, Doom Blade, Terminate), something small and cheap that gave us an advantage or complicated combat (Vapor Snag, Gitaxian Probe, Gutshot), pretty decent counterspells (Mana Leak) or aggressive creatures (the Titans cycle, Elesh Norn, the Eldrazi, Huntmaster, Thragtusk). Look at the format now; cards are more expensive for similar effects, or are at Sorcery speed when other versions were at Instant. There aren't as many all-encompassing, "do it all" spells like the above spells used to do.

Look at the removal spells that currently see play; most are either Sorcery speed (Pillar of Flame), cost more (Searing Spear), or exile cards (Sever the Bloodline vs. Maelstrom Pulse). Counterspells tend to be either uncounterable (Counterflux) or more focused/restrictive in what they hit (Dispel/Essence Scatter/Negate) or exile the countered spell (Dissipate). Not as many expensive creature cards impact the board, or there's way to go around, or over, or ignore them, as probably the only one that seems to have the "feel" of a Titan is Thundermaw Hellkite.

Planeswalkers I have no real clue how to comment on, as I think R&D is still trying to hit that sweet spot with them. We've seen how far they're willing to make them go to be good (JTMS) and how bad they can be as well (Tibalt). To me, it feels like they're close to that sweet spot, as Tamiyo and Jace, Architect of Thought seem to be about as "middle of the road" as a 'walker can be.

Cliff notes: more expensive spells = healthier Standard format.
Rainofpain
Profile Joined December 2010
United States125 Posts
January 02 2013 16:16 GMT
#5182
They`re just catering to noobs who like attacking with creatures and dont like worrying about playing around spells.
It`s hard to read bad players because they`re bad - Idra
deth2munkies
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4051 Posts
January 02 2013 16:29 GMT
#5183
On January 03 2013 01:16 Rainofpain wrote:
They`re just catering to noobs who like attacking with creatures and dont like worrying about playing around spells.


You prefer sitting there with 5 counterspells in hand draw going for 20 turns? How is that fun? How is that Magic?

Creatures are spells too, and they should be important and playable. I like the direction that they're going to an extent. I do think the removal suite is heavy on sweepers and light on spot removal in this format, but we haven't seen Gatecrash yet.
cLAN.Anax
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
United States2847 Posts
January 02 2013 16:54 GMT
#5184
Wooooot!! Knew we'd be getting a Gideon this time around! :-D Sad he's not RW, however; love the gold Planeswalkers.... :-C Don't mind his art too much. Abilities make him look like a beefed up version of his first iteration, and now with an Apocalypse minus the hand-discard. And he's one mana less to boot.
┬─┬___(ツ)_/¯ 彡┻━┻ I am the 4%. "I cant believe i saw ANAL backwards before i saw the word LAN." - Capped
MoonBear
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
January 02 2013 17:55 GMT
#5185
At first I thought Clan defiance was a nice card, but rather situational. Then I read the text again and realised you could pick more than one option. I'd complain about it not being instant speed, but I think that would start being petty.

Since I'm not that interested in Standard I don't have much comment about the current R&D Design aside from the fact I had a huge shock when I saw new cards since I missed out everything from old Ravnica to new Mirrodin.
ModeratorA dream. Do you have one that has cursed you like that? Or maybe... a wish?
spinesheath
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany8679 Posts
January 02 2013 18:44 GMT
#5186
When you read the card for the first time and miss the "one or more" part, you should be wondering why they would put 3 different cases there, when they could just write "deals X damage to target creature or player" instead. I was.

Sure, there's the case of a creature gaining/losing flying between mode selection and resolution, but to tailor a card specifically to be weak against that kind of thing would be so weird...
If you have a good reason to disagree with the above, please tell me. Thank you.
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-02 18:56:41
January 02 2013 18:55 GMT
#5187
On January 03 2013 01:54 cLAN.Anax wrote:
Wooooot!! Knew we'd be getting a Gideon this time around! :-D Sad he's not RW, however; love the gold Planeswalkers.... :-C Don't mind his art too much. Abilities make him look like a beefed up version of his first iteration, and now with an Apocalypse minus the hand-discard. And he's one mana less to boot.


He's not really beefed-up. He's like Desecration Demon in white plus indestructibility minus the ability to ever block. I suppose enchanting him with evasion is better than DD. 2.0 does zilch versus aggro (you can't pass T4 to an aggro deck, even if it lets you beat their face for 9-10 the next turn) and less versus control (not a 6/6 unless you wait 2 turns, can't remove their finisher or force it into a bad attack). 1.0 was able to immediately impact the board nearly 100% of the time which is why he was really an amazing card. I'll be surprised if Champion of Justice is played even half as much as 1.0.

Maybe an okay card versus grindy midrange stalemates, but I'd rather have Odric there to be honest. Odric is also better versus aggro because of the first strike blocker and versus Tusk because he kills both halves.
Leonite7
Profile Joined July 2011
Ireland921 Posts
January 02 2013 19:45 GMT
#5188
When are the next card previews for Gatecrash due out? Or are they just people getting them in random RTR boosters?
MoonBear
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
January 02 2013 19:47 GMT
#5189
On January 03 2013 04:45 Leonite7 wrote:
When are the next card previews for Gatecrash due out? Or are they just people getting them in random RTR boosters?

They're coming out on the Mothership (aka Wizards website). The MTG Subreddit has a nice summary of each day's spoilers.
ModeratorA dream. Do you have one that has cursed you like that? Or maybe... a wish?
cLAN.Anax
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
United States2847 Posts
January 02 2013 23:10 GMT
#5190
I always check MTG Salvation's page for updates.
┬─┬___(ツ)_/¯ 彡┻━┻ I am the 4%. "I cant believe i saw ANAL backwards before i saw the word LAN." - Capped
NotSorry
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States6722 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-03 00:23:40
January 03 2013 00:22 GMT
#5191
Another Spoiler, some healer hate for red.

[image loading]




Correct me if I'm wrong but player X plays his Sphinx's Revelation, in response player Y plays skullcrack and player X gains 0 life, right or does it have to be preemptive?
We have now sunk to a depth at which restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. - Orwell
el_dawg
Profile Joined September 2011
United States164 Posts
January 03 2013 00:27 GMT
#5192
On January 03 2013 09:22 NotSorry wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong but player X plays his Sphinx's Revelation, in response player Y plays skullcrack and player X gains 0 life, right or does it have to be preemptive?


It ends up being preemptive actually with the way the stack works. Skullcrack resolves before the revelation.
NotSorry
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States6722 Posts
January 03 2013 00:29 GMT
#5193
On January 03 2013 09:27 el_dawg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 03 2013 09:22 NotSorry wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong but player X plays his Sphinx's Revelation, in response player Y plays skullcrack and player X gains 0 life, right or does it have to be preemptive?


It ends up being preemptive actually with the way the stack works. Skullcrack resolves before the revelation.

thought so just wanted to make sure before I got too excited
We have now sunk to a depth at which restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. - Orwell
Shotcoder
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States2316 Posts
January 03 2013 00:42 GMT
#5194
that sounds correct. As well as an in response to a Thragtusk cast.
Shotcoder - C+ BW Terran, Gold LoL(ADC Main)
el_dawg
Profile Joined September 2011
United States164 Posts
January 03 2013 00:59 GMT
#5195
On January 03 2013 09:42 Shotcoder wrote:
that sounds correct. As well as an in response to a Thragtusk cast.


You could do it in response to the enters the battlefield trigger too, though I'm not sure why you would other than to troll your opponent.
deth2munkies
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4051 Posts
January 03 2013 01:27 GMT
#5196
On January 03 2013 09:59 el_dawg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 03 2013 09:42 Shotcoder wrote:
that sounds correct. As well as an in response to a Thragtusk cast.


You could do it in response to the enters the battlefield trigger too, though I'm not sure why you would other than to troll your opponent.

If you have them DoB through the Thragtusk and were gonna cast it anyway, seems good.
Kinie
Profile Joined December 2011
United States3106 Posts
January 03 2013 01:47 GMT
#5197
With Skullcrack, if you cast it in response to Sphinx's Revelation or Thragtusk lifegain trigger, they will not gain life.
FireSA
Profile Joined March 2011
Australia555 Posts
January 03 2013 03:26 GMT
#5198
skullcrack is hilariously good. Wtf. I mean I play BR rakdos zombies or whatever you want to call them...man..I mean, I'll likely play UB after gatecrash is out..but cards like this excite me, because they pretty much scream "GET READY FOR A META SHAKE-UP", and I was really a bit over the lifegain v lifegain, win by milling them out matches..I mean come on..
NotSorry
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States6722 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-03 05:17:07
January 03 2013 05:16 GMT
#5199
Playing BR Zombies and my local meta recently shifted from jund midrange/bant control/selesnya midrange(pretty balanced 4-5 of each which I destroy blind folded) and a few random shit to nearly all UW Flash and it's giving me a lot more trouble than I feel that it should, I still end up 5-1/4-2 on the night but the games generally way too close for comfort.

My current deck list

4 Blood Artist
4 Diregraf Ghoul
4 Falkenrath Aristocrat
4 Geralf's Messenger
4 Gravecrawler
3 Hellrider
4 Knight of Infamy
Creatures [27]

4 Brimstone Volley
4 Searing Spear
3 Sign in Blood
Spells [11]

4 Blood Crypt
1 Mountain
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Rakdos Guildgate
9 Swamp
Lands [22]

SIDEBOARD
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Pillar of Flame
2 Victim of Night
2 Appetite for Brains
3 Slaughter Games

I generally side out of 8 1drops for 4 vampire nighthawks, 3slaughter games, 1 appetite for brains for games that I draw, for games on the play I leave in my 1drops and remove 3 sign in blood, 4 Blood Artist for 3 Slaughter games and 2 Appetites and 2 Victim of Night.
We have now sunk to a depth at which restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. - Orwell
Kinie
Profile Joined December 2011
United States3106 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-03 06:20:14
January 03 2013 06:19 GMT
#5200
On January 03 2013 14:16 NotSorry wrote:
Playing BR Zombies and my local meta recently shifted from jund midrange/bant control/selesnya midrange(pretty balanced 4-5 of each which I destroy blind folded) and a few random shit to nearly all UW Flash and it's giving me a lot more trouble than I feel that it should, I still end up 5-1/4-2 on the night but the games generally way too close for comfort.

My current deck list

+ Show Spoiler +

4 Blood Artist
4 Diregraf Ghoul
4 Falkenrath Aristocrat
4 Geralf's Messenger
4 Gravecrawler
3 Hellrider
4 Knight of Infamy
Creatures [27]

4 Brimstone Volley
4 Searing Spear
3 Sign in Blood
Spells [11]

4 Blood Crypt
1 Mountain
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Rakdos Guildgate
9 Swamp
Lands [22]

SIDEBOARD
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Pillar of Flame
2 Victim of Night
2 Appetite for Brains
3 Slaughter Games


I generally side out of 8 1drops for 4 vampire nighthawks, 3slaughter games, 1 appetite for brains for games that I draw, for games on the play I leave in my 1drops and remove 3 sign in blood, 4 Blood Artist for 3 Slaughter games and 2 Appetites and 2 Victim of Night.


These are just my suggestions, your milage/experience with the deck can tell you otherwise.

Blood Artist and Knight of Infamy need to turn into something else. The moment one of those UW Flash decks notice that they can fit red into the manabase easily enough, you'll start losing to Staticasters and Pillars faster than Snap + Vapor Snag back in SOM-AVR Standard. Most lists have shifted the Knights into Thrill-Kill Assassins, and only run Artists in the SB. And with the incrimental life gain now gone from the deck, the Sign in Bloods are very much a high risk investment, and something I personally don't feel is worth the reward.

Second, try to pick up a Thundermaw Hellkite or two for the deck. It gives you a nice finisher that they sometimes have no answers to after surviving the initial onslaught of the small things and the 3-4 drops of Geralf, Falkenrath, and Hellrider.

Third, add some Cavern of Souls to the landbase. Making Falkenrath, Hellrider, Geralf and Thundermaw uncounterable means more damage.

Lastly, I've made changes to the sideboard to try and help with the various Control archetype matchups you might face.

This is what I suggest:

+ Show Spoiler +

4 Diregraf Ghoul
4 Thrill-Kill Assassin
4 Falkenrath Aristocrat
4 Geralf's Messenger
4 Gravecrawler
3 Hellrider
2 Thundermaw Hellkite
(25 Creatures)

4 Brimstone Volley
4 Searing Spear
3 Pillar of Flame
(11 Spells)

4 Blood Crypt
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Rakdos Guildgate
3 Cavern of Souls
9 Swamp
(24 Lands)

SIDEBOARD
3 Vampire Nighthawk
1 Pillar of Flame
2 Underworld Connections
2 Appetite for Brains
2 Slaughter Games
3 Blood Artist
2 Archwing Dragon


As for the cards spoiled today; Domri Rade was revealed, which is the exact same as the one we saw a month or so ago, which basically means that the other 4 cards are real.
Prev 1 258 259 260 261 262 665 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
RSL Revival
09:00
Season 6 - Group D
Clem vs Lambo
Scarlett vs Cure
Tasteless563
Ryung 448
ComeBackTV 301
IntoTheiNu 130
3DClanTV 56
Rex47
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Tasteless 563
Ryung 448
SortOf 195
Rex 47
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 1381
Shuttle 1269
Larva 305
Hyuk 249
Leta 144
Killer 89
Hyun 68
yabsab 26
Nal_rA 16
Sharp 10
[ Show more ]
IntoTheRainbow 10
ajuk12(nOOB) 8
League of Legends
JimRising 555
Other Games
singsing1076
XaKoH 144
RuFF_SC225
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2335
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH332
• StrangeGG 45
• LUISG 21
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2361
League of Legends
• Stunt689
Upcoming Events
CranKy Ducklings
47m
Epic.LAN
3h 47m
IPSL
6h 47m
Dragon vs Hawk
RSL Revival
23h 47m
Classic vs Trap
herO vs SHIN
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d
OSC
1d 3h
IPSL
1d 6h
Bonyth vs Ret
WardiTV Weekly
2 days
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
PiGosaur Cup
3 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
CrankTV Team League
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
CrankTV Team League
6 days
Korean StarCraft League
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S3: W3
HSC XXIX
Eternal Conflict S2 E2

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
YSL S3
CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
SCTL 2026 Spring
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W4
ASL S22 SEASON OPEN Day 2
Escore Tournament S3: W5
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E3
Logitech G Connect 2026
StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.