EPTEDIT: he takes so much more work, but there's no reason he can't fulfill the Sphinx of Jwar Isle role - obviously dependent on your opponents deck. But I think Angel remains a choice finisher for Control.
Magic: The Gathering - Page 259
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
EDIT: he takes so much more work, but there's no reason he can't fulfill the Sphinx of Jwar Isle role - obviously dependent on your opponents deck. But I think Angel remains a choice finisher for Control. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
Lazav is weaker than both Revenant and Geist in terms of impact on board. The problem with Lazav is when the hell do you ever want to play this guy? I rather mill them for 3 on 4 if Drownyard is out and nothing is happening, drop a Jace if I have the window. I don't know when you even have the chance to drop him and have him be relevant for a CHANCE that something of relevance is going to the gy. That's hardly a safe line to be taking as control since tapping 4 mana on your turn as a UBx player better be on the same tier as Jace in terms of impact or there's no point. Lazav just simply doesn't afford you that. Or you can just EoT a Revelation when you have lots of mana which is more back breaking. I was excited for the Orzhov guild leader more in a control build; Lazav is a EDH general more where battleship Magic happens. Jwar Isle comparison is unfair because Jwar Isle is a 4 turn clock as a 5/5 flyer; you're not getting that same thing. | ||
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trinxified
Canada7774 Posts
1. This game isn't free right? 2. Can't play against computer? 3. It's basically buying cards virtually online and playing against other people in the world? | ||
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
Would you tap out for him on T4 against current Control setups? Maybe...on the play, the worst thing you're looking at is a resolved Jace +1, EOT Restoration Angel, Huntmasters? On the Draw, I guess Thragtusk or Tamiyo or Dragon. I probably wouldn't but is it that bad? EDIT: yeah, the "drop him and hope Drownyard hits Worldspine Wurm" plan is partly wishful thinking. But UB always end up with 9 to 11 lands on board and a grip of cards in hand. There is no more Grave Titan so I don't think Lazav is unusable in Standard. | ||
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NotSorry
United States6722 Posts
![[image loading]](http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/tcg/products/gtc/9wstmvlpdq_en.jpg) | ||
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Salteador Neo
Andorra5591 Posts
On January 02 2013 05:32 trinxified wrote: Sorry for being ignorant. But I have a few questions: 1. This game isn't free right? 2. Can't play against computer? 3. It's basically buying cards virtually online and playing against other people in the world? 1- yes 2- There are some mtg games which let you play against the computer afaik. 3- yes, also cards irl | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On January 02 2013 05:41 slyboogie wrote: No, I mean If you get their Angel with Drownyard, you have a 5/6 Flying Hexproof beater. He's a late game, 1-2 of finisher that supports/liability insurance for your primary goal of Drownyarding them to death. He's bad against Aggro, I agree, or at least suboptimal. Lone Revenant might remain better, dunno. Would you tap out for him on T4 against current Control setups? Maybe...on the play, the worst thing you're looking at is a resolved Jace +1, EOT Restoration Angel, Huntmasters? On the Draw, I guess Thragtusk or Tamiyo or Dragon. I probably wouldn't but is it that bad? EDIT: yeah, the "drop him and hope Drownyard hits Worldspine Wurm" plan is partly wishful thinking. But UB always end up with 9 to 11 lands on board and a grip of cards in hand. There is no more Grave Titan so I don't think Lazav is unusable in Standard. See that's the problem, you are hoping that you get something relevant to the board position. If you are comfortably Drownyarding them then why would you work fairly hard to resolve a 4 mana 3/3? If you aren't comfortably activating Drownyard, then why would you want to resolve a 4 mana 3/3 in UBx? Jace +1 or -2 is better than Lazav, Resto Angel is on par, Huntmasters are nightmares for control players, same goes for Thragtusk, same goes for Tamiyo. The Thunderkite is something you don't want to get with since all the decks running it means that you are dead really soon. Also, good UB decks ran 0 creature finishers for the last standard cycle. Most of it was due to Image being so good, but some of it was due to there being absolute 0 need for it. | ||
520
United States2822 Posts
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
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cLAN.Anax
United States2847 Posts
Am I right? Isn't this practically "begging" to be played with Selesnya's Populate cards? | ||
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
On January 02 2013 08:15 Judicator wrote: See that's the problem, you are hoping that you get something relevant to the board position. If you are comfortably Drownyarding them then why would you work fairly hard to resolve a 4 mana 3/3? If you aren't comfortably activating Drownyard, then why would you want to resolve a 4 mana 3/3 in UBx? Jace +1 or -2 is better than Lazav, Resto Angel is on par, Huntmasters are nightmares for control players, same goes for Thragtusk, same goes for Tamiyo. The Thunderkite is something you don't want to get with since all the decks running it means that you are dead really soon. Also, good UB decks ran 0 creature finishers for the last standard cycle. Most of it was due to Image being so good, but some of it was due to there being absolute 0 need for it. No, you're still making this too much about Turn 4 and 5. I feel like I'm defending a card I don't even love that much - you are going to jam 4 of them into your deck - and in terms of finishers, this falls well below: Wurcoil Engine, Grave Titan, Sphinx of Jwar Isle. But this is in the realm of Frost Titan or maybe Consecrated Sphinx after Delver's boom. I mean, are you dropping Revenant on Turn 5 with a huge grin cause thats your finisher? No, it's the same as every other finisher ever except for, I guess sometimes, Gideon Jura. Usually, it's just a dead card in your hand if the other 6 were good enough to keep. UB stopped playing creatures after Delver became the deck, except maybe a couple of Snapcasters. But during the Wolf-Run era, there were plenty of games closed out with two swings from Grave Titan or games won by Sphinx drawing you 4 cards. Right now, you sound like your plan is Drownyard - and that's fine, it's probably your single most reliable win condition. But there are enough UWx Decks that will fight for an Elixir or Psychic Spiral with you or somebodies going to slip a Garruk under you. Not having a creature finisher is bad, I haven't really played with Revenant, but he sounds okay, but Lazav has superior synergy and is easier to cast. EDIT: For clarity! | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On January 02 2013 10:48 slyboogie wrote: No, you're still making this too much about Turn 4 and 5. I feel like I'm defending a card I don't even love that much - you are going to jam 4 of them into your deck - and in terms of finishers, this falls well below: Wurcoil Engine, Grave Titan, Sphinx of Jwar Isle. But this is in the realm of Frost Titan or maybe Consecrated Sphinx after Delver's boom. I mean, are you dropping Revenant on Turn 5 with a huge grin cause thats your finisher? No, it's the same as every other finisher ever except for, I guess sometimes, Gideon Jura. Usually, it's just a dead card in your hand if the other 6 were good enough to keep. UB stopped playing creatures after Delver became the deck, except maybe a couple of Snapcasters. But during the Wolf-Run era, there were plenty of games closed out with two swings from Grave Titan or games won by Sphinx drawing you 4 cards. Right now, you sound like your plan is Drownyard - and that's fine, it's probably your single most reliable win condition. But there are enough UWx Decks that will fight for an Elixir or Psychic Spiral with you or somebodies going to slip a Garruk under you. Not having a creature finisher is bad, I haven't really played with Revenant, but he sounds okay, but Lazav has superior synergy and is easier to cast. EDIT: For clarity! I guess my for clarity sakes... Hardly bad for not having creatures, I was incredulous of that build at first as well but decided to try it with just 2 Snapcasters as my creatures and loved it. Nobody touched G. Titan or Wurmcoil besides the Pod players, namely because Metamorph/Image was very easy way to lose. Same goes for Threaten type effects. That's why you saw you a lot of decks avoiding 6 drops with the occasional Sphinx. Simply put, it was pretty unsustainable to play draw-go unless you are all-in on the draw-go. UB stopped playing creatures very early. Delver was kind of an ok match up once Essence Scatter (M13) was released. Delver itself was never a problem, the problem was how bad Mana Leak was in UB as time dragged on. You simply didn't have enough cards in the 75 to properly guard against a lot of decks. In either case, Delver had to protect itself from other decks and the match up was much more favorable than originally thought. Now... Back to the Lazav, it doesn't do anything until you invest in more resources. As for Revenant, if it's a control mirror, then hell yes I am grinning. 4/4 too big for anything BUT Wraths, even 1 hit means I just went through 3 cards and smoothed my draw. Lazav is a big maybe, and that's a big strike against that since again, it doesn't force an answer. Like when do you want to drop this creature? It's one thing to say the effect is powerful (not disagreeing there), but it's another actually getting this card on the field. That's where his awkwardness comes to bite him in the ass, hard. | ||
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Wegandi
United States2455 Posts
The Dimir Key rune looks really sick as side board tech against other control shells as well. Definitely happy ramping (for sphinx + really...control just wants as much mana as it can get), fixing, and being unblockable ala creeping tar pit. Let's just hope we get some decent instant speed removal options from Dimir, Orzhov, (maybe?) Simic. | ||
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
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Kinie
United States3106 Posts
Edit: Gideon certainly seems like a good planeswalker. In creature-heavy mirrors it's a mirror-breaker, though having to use his +1 ability for 2-5 turns and survive that many turns of your opponent throwing everything at him will be rough. And it certainly continues the theme of 'walker ultimates making you win the game the moment they're activated. And after seeing another Cipher card, it certainly looks like there has to be cheap, effective removal spells in Gatecrash, otherwise Standard format will be nothing but Esper Control/Esper Walkers trying to mill and lockdown the board until they can mill the opponent out with Drownyard. | ||
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
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NotSorry
United States6722 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + | ||
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
I haven't seen a single card that excites me yet from these spoilers. (for constructed, limited seems fun) Also, spoiler that post ffs | ||
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Wegandi
United States2455 Posts
On January 02 2013 15:18 Risen wrote: I like Gid's art! I haven't seen a single card that excites me yet from these spoilers. (for constructed, limited seems fun) Also, spoiler that post ffs Clan Defiance definitely seems constructed playable. Gideon is just awful though. | ||
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
EDIT: Rofl, better than Lazav though. Ha. Oh man, it's like Ajani is bizzaro Elspeth(Wonderwoman) throwing up bizzaro Gideon. | ||
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