• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 05:05
CET 11:05
KST 19:05
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book15Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational14
Community News
ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/0220LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals (Feb 10-16)26Weekly Cups (Feb 2-8): Classic, Solar, MaxPax win2Nexon's StarCraft game could be FPS, led by UMS maker10PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar)14
StarCraft 2
General
How do you think the 5.0.15 balance patch (Oct 2025) for StarCraft II has affected the game? Nexon's StarCraft game could be FPS, led by UMS maker Terran Scanner Sweep Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book Weekly Cups (Jan 12-18): herO, MaxPax, Solar win
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Season 4 announced for March-April PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar) LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals (Feb 10-16) RSL Revival: Season 4 Korea Qualifier (Feb 14)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ? [A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 512 Overclocked Mutation # 511 Temple of Rebirth Mutation # 510 Safety Violation
Brood War
General
Which units you wish saw more use in the game? ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/02 StarCraft player reflex TE scores [ASL21] Potential Map Candidates Gypsy to Korea
Tourneys
Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 1 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Zealot bombing is no longer popular? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Diablo 2 thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread ZeroSpace Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Ask and answer stupid questions here! Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
ADHD And Gaming Addiction…
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2058 users

Magic: The Gathering - Page 173

Forum Index > General Games
Post a Reply
Prev 1 171 172 173 174 175 665 Next
slyboogie
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3423 Posts
June 01 2012 02:24 GMT
#3441
I drafted a BG deck. It was...not a deck. But I got to the finals and lost against a UB deck, rofl. He had all my Death Winds and Bone Splinters and Undead Executioners and Barter in Bloods =(

My best win? A tie between swinging in with 3 Soulcage Fiends and dropping a Bloodflow Connoisseur vs. my Demonic Taskmaster with a Predators Gambit just beating ass. When Black goes, it goes all the way.
"We dug coal together." Boyd Crowder, Justified
Judicator
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States7270 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-01 02:34:11
June 01 2012 02:32 GMT
#3442
On June 01 2012 11:21 ParanoiaDHerO wrote:
Can you give me a priority for bloodflow conn/driver of the dead/crypt creeper? Is it based on if I have others or should I be taking one exclusively over the others unless I have 4 of them?


Bloodflow gets really good if you have Artist out and have the Undying creatures. I still wouldn't play more than 2 though. I think the undying creatures in black are the ones you really need beyond what others have mentioned. Two for ones are absolutely brutal in this format.

Edit:

Game 3 of the finals last week saw me getting the shit curved out of me from a RW deck, turn 1 Duelist (ok that's not too bad), turn 2 Kruin Striker (still alright), turn 3 Paladin (dafuq is this shit), turn 4 Angel of Jubilation (gg).
Get it by your hands...
bumatlarge
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States4567 Posts
June 01 2012 02:32 GMT
#3443
Er, it depends what you are missing in your curve and what monet cards you have. If you have blood artist(s), driver is a nice reanimator for it, bloodflow makes homicidal and crypt keeper is pretty much a good card that can die whenever you need it to (good with homicidal). Then I'd look at how many 2cmc 3cmc and 4cmc drops you have. I guess it's driver>conniseur>keeper personally. Driver can be some pretty sick value.
Together but separate, like oatmeal
slyboogie
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3423 Posts
June 01 2012 02:40 GMT
#3444
If you can't land Butcher Ghoul's you need to pick up some Crypt Keepers. Two-Drop is at a premium of this format. That being said, Driver has been merely okay, in my experience. I do like Trader but he takes too long to get going.
"We dug coal together." Boyd Crowder, Justified
DEN1ED
Profile Joined December 2009
United States1087 Posts
June 01 2012 03:00 GMT
#3445
The only real playable imo is Bloodflow Connoisseur. The other guys are more filler. The driver is ok if you have a lot of the 1/1 undying guy but apart from him there arn't really any good black guys 2 or less.
ParanoiaDHerO
Profile Joined July 2009
United States183 Posts
June 01 2012 03:01 GMT
#3446
Thanks for all the replies. Can anyone suggest a free program to practice magic with?
DEN1ED
Profile Joined December 2009
United States1087 Posts
June 01 2012 03:01 GMT
#3447
On June 01 2012 12:01 ParanoiaDHerO wrote:
Thanks for all the replies. Can anyone suggest a free program to practice magic with?


MWS is pretty much it.
DCLXVI
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States729 Posts
June 01 2012 03:44 GMT
#3448
On June 01 2012 12:01 DEN1ED wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2012 12:01 ParanoiaDHerO wrote:
Thanks for all the replies. Can anyone suggest a free program to practice magic with?


MWS is pretty much it.

I prefer cockatrice
I can already see the ending
bumatlarge
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States4567 Posts
June 01 2012 03:59 GMT
#3449
Oh some m13 spoilers, they are not reprinting phantasmal image, if we are to assume clone is replacing it, and they are reprinting vampire nocturnus :D maybe vamps will be playable, or at least mono black aggro.
Together but separate, like oatmeal
DEN1ED
Profile Joined December 2009
United States1087 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-01 04:12:06
June 01 2012 04:07 GMT
#3450
Really dumb that they aren't reprinting phantasmal image. It's only REALLY dumb with sun titan and it was one of the few ways to kill stupid hexproof legends. Yes clone does too but its unplayable at 4cmc.
Judicator
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States7270 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-01 04:20:38
June 01 2012 04:13 GMT
#3451
On June 01 2012 12:59 bumatlarge wrote:
Oh some m13 spoilers, they are not reprinting phantasmal image, if we are to assume clone is replacing it, and they are reprinting vampire nocturnus :D maybe vamps will be playable, or at least mono black aggro.


Monoblack aggro....is suicide black, of which there are no cards suitable for it.

Edit:

Seriously, the mechanic they decide to reprint is Exalted? But hey Nicol Bolas is back, right in time to get his face smashed by fucking shitty mana bases (until RtR HOPEFULLY) and the billion aggro/midrange decks. Next Wizards will give us a 6 mana Wrath and say everything is balanced.
Get it by your hands...
slyboogie
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3423 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-01 04:27:57
June 01 2012 04:25 GMT
#3452
Noble Hierarch ^_____^

EDIT: lol just saw the spoiler and they had this baby:

1R
Instant
Deal 3 damage to target creature or player.

Ha~

"We dug coal together." Boyd Crowder, Justified
TestSubject893
Profile Joined September 2009
United States774 Posts
June 01 2012 04:53 GMT
#3453
Why is Homicidal Seclusion so good (in limited)? Seems to me like by the time you get it out you ought to have more than one creature out for sure.

Also, I'm drafting tomorrow for the first time in a few years, so any more general tips on this set are greatly appreciated! I've been reading the discussion about it and everyone's tips have been helpful so far. Thanks guys.
Judicator
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States7270 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-01 05:04:59
June 01 2012 04:58 GMT
#3454
Dear Wizards, stop printing tempo decks, they have never ever been good for the standard environment.

I just played a few matches (like 10) with Delver, and the deck isn't fair or even fun. Oh you have 5 creatures out to my 1? STILL LOSING THE RACE. Oh you have 5 cards to my 2? LOSING THE RACE EVEN FASTER. Oh you have your nut draw? MANA LEAK-SNAPCASTER-MANA LEAK. This is on top of not flipping Delver consistently (or only about twice total) and misplaying a few games where I am still in a control player's mindset (the only modes I have ever known is attacking for lethal or not attacking and ticking up Karn to 20 million).

The last one is obviously a joke, but seriously fuck Delver and it's interactions (or the lack thereof). There were multiple times where I knew what the opponent HAD to have at a particular game point and it didn't fucking matter because I was holding a Mana Leak. There were multiple times where I knew they can't interact with my threats so they were just drawing dead. There were multiple times I spent mana on my opponent's turn to 2 for them a turn a later because they had to cast shit on their turn.

Edit:

Seclusion is good because as you might noticed, Black's better creatures are pretty damn big and their drawbacks are mitigated provided they are the only ones out. The Lifelink means you are coming out ahead on any 1 for 1 trades. The +3/+1 means you are swinging for a ton (with Lifelink). Let's just say you have a 2/1 Flyer out with Seclusion out also, this means that you are now hitting for 5 lifelink in the air which translates to a 4 turn clock which isn't easy to handle even if they can block. Trading 1 card for 1 card with you gaining 5 is good for the Seclusion player because then you lay another average card like the 5/3, now its a 8/4 that they have to deal with and etc. The deck isn't broken since cards like Cloudshift and Peel can be used to great success in tempo-ing it out but that only really works if the opponent has the board advantage already, which again, isn't always the case.
Get it by your hands...
hkf
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Australia354 Posts
June 01 2012 05:01 GMT
#3455
On June 01 2012 13:58 Judicator wrote:
Dear Wizards, stop printing tempo decks, they have never ever been good for the standard environment.

I just played a few matches (like 10) with Delver, and the deck isn't fair or even fun. Oh you have 5 creatures out to my 1? STILL LOSING THE RACE. Oh you have 5 cards to my 2? LOSING THE RACE EVEN FASTER. Oh you have your nut draw? MANA LEAK-SNAPCASTER-MANA LEAK. This is on top of not flipping Delver consistently (or only about twice total) and misplaying a few games where I am still in a control player's mindset (the only modes I have ever known is attacking for lethal or not attacking and ticking up Karn to 20 million).

The last one is obviously a joke, but seriously fuck Delver and it's interactions (or the lack thereof). There were multiple times where I knew what the opponent HAD to have at a particular game point and it didn't fucking matter because I was holding a Mana Leak. There were multiple times where I knew they can't interact with my threats so they were just drawing dead. There were multiple times I spent mana on my opponent's turn to 2 for them a turn a later because they had to cast shit on their turn.

Never played in odyssey standard I take it
2 years of mongrel go
DEN1ED
Profile Joined December 2009
United States1087 Posts
June 01 2012 05:11 GMT
#3456
Aggro control decks are always the best. Seclusion is amazing because it makes they deal with every creature you play immediately. You can't race it so you have to have an answer to everything. And generally in black decks you have sac outlets and such to easily keep 1 creature in play.
Judicator
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States7270 Posts
June 01 2012 05:12 GMT
#3457
On June 01 2012 14:01 hkf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2012 13:58 Judicator wrote:
Dear Wizards, stop printing tempo decks, they have never ever been good for the standard environment.

I just played a few matches (like 10) with Delver, and the deck isn't fair or even fun. Oh you have 5 creatures out to my 1? STILL LOSING THE RACE. Oh you have 5 cards to my 2? LOSING THE RACE EVEN FASTER. Oh you have your nut draw? MANA LEAK-SNAPCASTER-MANA LEAK. This is on top of not flipping Delver consistently (or only about twice total) and misplaying a few games where I am still in a control player's mindset (the only modes I have ever known is attacking for lethal or not attacking and ticking up Karn to 20 million).

The last one is obviously a joke, but seriously fuck Delver and it's interactions (or the lack thereof). There were multiple times where I knew what the opponent HAD to have at a particular game point and it didn't fucking matter because I was holding a Mana Leak. There were multiple times where I knew they can't interact with my threats so they were just drawing dead. There were multiple times I spent mana on my opponent's turn to 2 for them a turn a later because they had to cast shit on their turn.

Never played in odyssey standard I take it
2 years of mongrel go


I played in Odyssey, Mongrel is still my favorite 2 drop...but that deck didn't have Hexproof and Unblockables. Not to mention 8 power of most of the time unblockable damage along with an uncounterable instant speed 1/1 flyer from dead creatures. Circular Logic was pretty brutal though and killing the Dog was pretty impossible, still that deck isn't anywhere as bad this one (hello swords).
Get it by your hands...
hkf
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Australia354 Posts
June 01 2012 06:05 GMT
#3458
On June 01 2012 14:12 Judicator wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2012 14:01 hkf wrote:
On June 01 2012 13:58 Judicator wrote:
Dear Wizards, stop printing tempo decks, they have never ever been good for the standard environment.

I just played a few matches (like 10) with Delver, and the deck isn't fair or even fun. Oh you have 5 creatures out to my 1? STILL LOSING THE RACE. Oh you have 5 cards to my 2? LOSING THE RACE EVEN FASTER. Oh you have your nut draw? MANA LEAK-SNAPCASTER-MANA LEAK. This is on top of not flipping Delver consistently (or only about twice total) and misplaying a few games where I am still in a control player's mindset (the only modes I have ever known is attacking for lethal or not attacking and ticking up Karn to 20 million).

The last one is obviously a joke, but seriously fuck Delver and it's interactions (or the lack thereof). There were multiple times where I knew what the opponent HAD to have at a particular game point and it didn't fucking matter because I was holding a Mana Leak. There were multiple times where I knew they can't interact with my threats so they were just drawing dead. There were multiple times I spent mana on my opponent's turn to 2 for them a turn a later because they had to cast shit on their turn.

Never played in odyssey standard I take it
2 years of mongrel go


I played in Odyssey, Mongrel is still my favorite 2 drop...but that deck didn't have Hexproof and Unblockables. Not to mention 8 power of most of the time unblockable damage along with an uncounterable instant speed 1/1 flyer from dead creatures. Circular Logic was pretty brutal though and killing the Dog was pretty impossible, still that deck isn't anywhere as bad this one (hello swords).

Wonder wars would like to disagree
I think ug gives delver a run for its money.
Judicator
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States7270 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-01 15:33:20
June 01 2012 15:30 GMT
#3459
On June 01 2012 15:05 hkf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2012 14:12 Judicator wrote:
On June 01 2012 14:01 hkf wrote:
On June 01 2012 13:58 Judicator wrote:
Dear Wizards, stop printing tempo decks, they have never ever been good for the standard environment.

I just played a few matches (like 10) with Delver, and the deck isn't fair or even fun. Oh you have 5 creatures out to my 1? STILL LOSING THE RACE. Oh you have 5 cards to my 2? LOSING THE RACE EVEN FASTER. Oh you have your nut draw? MANA LEAK-SNAPCASTER-MANA LEAK. This is on top of not flipping Delver consistently (or only about twice total) and misplaying a few games where I am still in a control player's mindset (the only modes I have ever known is attacking for lethal or not attacking and ticking up Karn to 20 million).

The last one is obviously a joke, but seriously fuck Delver and it's interactions (or the lack thereof). There were multiple times where I knew what the opponent HAD to have at a particular game point and it didn't fucking matter because I was holding a Mana Leak. There were multiple times where I knew they can't interact with my threats so they were just drawing dead. There were multiple times I spent mana on my opponent's turn to 2 for them a turn a later because they had to cast shit on their turn.

Never played in odyssey standard I take it
2 years of mongrel go


I played in Odyssey, Mongrel is still my favorite 2 drop...but that deck didn't have Hexproof and Unblockables. Not to mention 8 power of most of the time unblockable damage along with an uncounterable instant speed 1/1 flyer from dead creatures. Circular Logic was pretty brutal though and killing the Dog was pretty impossible, still that deck isn't anywhere as bad this one (hello swords).

Wonder wars would like to disagree
I think ug gives delver a run for its money.


Fair enough, in their respective formats I can see your point, but Delver is still more degenerate seeing how it just turns off certain interactions straight up with hexproof. I guess my point is that UG didn't trade up as well as Delver does. The answers for Delver require multiple slots, and mostly higher costing mana cards.
Get it by your hands...
Durp
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada3117 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-01 15:41:28
June 01 2012 15:35 GMT
#3460
I couldn't be happier that they're reprinting Nicol Bolas. I bought a single booster of Conflux long after it cycled out for shits and giggles, and cracked a foil Bolas. It has sat in the trader binder for so long, and finally it's going to get some play.

I wish the format didn't shit all over grixis control.

edit; also pretty stoked for captain of the watch
SOOOOOooooOOOOooooOOOOoo Many BANELINGS!!
Prev 1 171 172 173 174 175 665 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Sparkling Tuna Cup
10:00
Weekly #119
CranKy Ducklings31
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SortOf 180
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 3620
firebathero 2041
Sea 1443
actioN 383
Soulkey 374
Killer 247
Hyun 93
Leta 80
Sharp 71
sorry 56
[ Show more ]
EffOrt 56
Rush 52
ToSsGirL 50
Hm[arnc] 37
Stork 35
NaDa 30
Backho 20
NotJumperer 12
Movie 9
zelot 9
Shine 6
soO 1
Dota 2
XaKoH 790
NeuroSwarm157
Counter-Strike
olofmeister2091
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King126
Other Games
gofns24215
crisheroes362
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL23559
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH187
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 1
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos2036
• Stunt573
Upcoming Events
LiuLi Cup
55m
Maru vs Reynor
Serral vs Rogue
Ladder Legends
7h 55m
Replay Cast
13h 55m
Replay Cast
22h 55m
Wardi Open
1d 1h
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 6h
OSC
1d 13h
WardiTV Winter Champion…
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
WardiTV Winter Champion…
3 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
PiG Sty Festival
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
KCM Race Survival
3 days
WardiTV Winter Champion…
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
PiG Sty Festival
4 days
Epic.LAN
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
PiG Sty Festival
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
Epic.LAN
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
PiG Sty Festival
6 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-02-14
Rongyi Cup S3
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: King of Kings
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 1st Round
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 1st Round Qualifier
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 2nd Round
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 2nd Round Qualifier
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
WardiTV Winter 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
FISSURE Playground #3
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.