• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 16:17
CEST 22:17
KST 05:17
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro4 Preview: On Course12Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview7[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Progenitors8Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun13[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Inheritors16
Community News
Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO8 Results0Weekly Cups (May 4-10): Clem, MaxPax, herO win1Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !11Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple0RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event12
StarCraft 2
General
Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO8 Results MaNa leaves Team Liquid Weekly Cups (May 4-10): Clem, MaxPax, herO win Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book
Tourneys
2026 GSL Season 2 Qualifiers Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! $5,000 WardiTV Spring Championship 2026 SC2 INu's Battles#16 <BO.9> Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Mutation # 525 Wheel of Misfortune The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 524 Death and Taxes Mutation # 523 Firewall
Brood War
General
Pros React to: TvT Masterclass in FlaSh vs Light vespene.gg — BW replays in browser BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion (Spoiler) Interview ASL Ro4 Day 2 Winner
Tourneys
[ASL21] Semifinals B [BSL22] RO8 Bracket Stage + Another TieBreaker Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Hydra ZvZ: An Introduction Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game PC Games Sales Thread
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread UK Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How EEG Data Can Predict Gam…
TrAiDoS
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2039 users

Magic: The Gathering - Page 173

Forum Index > General Games
Post a Reply
Prev 1 171 172 173 174 175 665 Next
slyboogie
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3423 Posts
June 01 2012 02:24 GMT
#3441
I drafted a BG deck. It was...not a deck. But I got to the finals and lost against a UB deck, rofl. He had all my Death Winds and Bone Splinters and Undead Executioners and Barter in Bloods =(

My best win? A tie between swinging in with 3 Soulcage Fiends and dropping a Bloodflow Connoisseur vs. my Demonic Taskmaster with a Predators Gambit just beating ass. When Black goes, it goes all the way.
"We dug coal together." Boyd Crowder, Justified
Judicator
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States7270 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-01 02:34:11
June 01 2012 02:32 GMT
#3442
On June 01 2012 11:21 ParanoiaDHerO wrote:
Can you give me a priority for bloodflow conn/driver of the dead/crypt creeper? Is it based on if I have others or should I be taking one exclusively over the others unless I have 4 of them?


Bloodflow gets really good if you have Artist out and have the Undying creatures. I still wouldn't play more than 2 though. I think the undying creatures in black are the ones you really need beyond what others have mentioned. Two for ones are absolutely brutal in this format.

Edit:

Game 3 of the finals last week saw me getting the shit curved out of me from a RW deck, turn 1 Duelist (ok that's not too bad), turn 2 Kruin Striker (still alright), turn 3 Paladin (dafuq is this shit), turn 4 Angel of Jubilation (gg).
Get it by your hands...
bumatlarge
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States4567 Posts
June 01 2012 02:32 GMT
#3443
Er, it depends what you are missing in your curve and what monet cards you have. If you have blood artist(s), driver is a nice reanimator for it, bloodflow makes homicidal and crypt keeper is pretty much a good card that can die whenever you need it to (good with homicidal). Then I'd look at how many 2cmc 3cmc and 4cmc drops you have. I guess it's driver>conniseur>keeper personally. Driver can be some pretty sick value.
Together but separate, like oatmeal
slyboogie
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3423 Posts
June 01 2012 02:40 GMT
#3444
If you can't land Butcher Ghoul's you need to pick up some Crypt Keepers. Two-Drop is at a premium of this format. That being said, Driver has been merely okay, in my experience. I do like Trader but he takes too long to get going.
"We dug coal together." Boyd Crowder, Justified
DEN1ED
Profile Joined December 2009
United States1087 Posts
June 01 2012 03:00 GMT
#3445
The only real playable imo is Bloodflow Connoisseur. The other guys are more filler. The driver is ok if you have a lot of the 1/1 undying guy but apart from him there arn't really any good black guys 2 or less.
ParanoiaDHerO
Profile Joined July 2009
United States183 Posts
June 01 2012 03:01 GMT
#3446
Thanks for all the replies. Can anyone suggest a free program to practice magic with?
DEN1ED
Profile Joined December 2009
United States1087 Posts
June 01 2012 03:01 GMT
#3447
On June 01 2012 12:01 ParanoiaDHerO wrote:
Thanks for all the replies. Can anyone suggest a free program to practice magic with?


MWS is pretty much it.
DCLXVI
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States729 Posts
June 01 2012 03:44 GMT
#3448
On June 01 2012 12:01 DEN1ED wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2012 12:01 ParanoiaDHerO wrote:
Thanks for all the replies. Can anyone suggest a free program to practice magic with?


MWS is pretty much it.

I prefer cockatrice
I can already see the ending
bumatlarge
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States4567 Posts
June 01 2012 03:59 GMT
#3449
Oh some m13 spoilers, they are not reprinting phantasmal image, if we are to assume clone is replacing it, and they are reprinting vampire nocturnus :D maybe vamps will be playable, or at least mono black aggro.
Together but separate, like oatmeal
DEN1ED
Profile Joined December 2009
United States1087 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-01 04:12:06
June 01 2012 04:07 GMT
#3450
Really dumb that they aren't reprinting phantasmal image. It's only REALLY dumb with sun titan and it was one of the few ways to kill stupid hexproof legends. Yes clone does too but its unplayable at 4cmc.
Judicator
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States7270 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-01 04:20:38
June 01 2012 04:13 GMT
#3451
On June 01 2012 12:59 bumatlarge wrote:
Oh some m13 spoilers, they are not reprinting phantasmal image, if we are to assume clone is replacing it, and they are reprinting vampire nocturnus :D maybe vamps will be playable, or at least mono black aggro.


Monoblack aggro....is suicide black, of which there are no cards suitable for it.

Edit:

Seriously, the mechanic they decide to reprint is Exalted? But hey Nicol Bolas is back, right in time to get his face smashed by fucking shitty mana bases (until RtR HOPEFULLY) and the billion aggro/midrange decks. Next Wizards will give us a 6 mana Wrath and say everything is balanced.
Get it by your hands...
slyboogie
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3423 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-01 04:27:57
June 01 2012 04:25 GMT
#3452
Noble Hierarch ^_____^

EDIT: lol just saw the spoiler and they had this baby:

1R
Instant
Deal 3 damage to target creature or player.

Ha~

"We dug coal together." Boyd Crowder, Justified
TestSubject893
Profile Joined September 2009
United States774 Posts
June 01 2012 04:53 GMT
#3453
Why is Homicidal Seclusion so good (in limited)? Seems to me like by the time you get it out you ought to have more than one creature out for sure.

Also, I'm drafting tomorrow for the first time in a few years, so any more general tips on this set are greatly appreciated! I've been reading the discussion about it and everyone's tips have been helpful so far. Thanks guys.
Judicator
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States7270 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-01 05:04:59
June 01 2012 04:58 GMT
#3454
Dear Wizards, stop printing tempo decks, they have never ever been good for the standard environment.

I just played a few matches (like 10) with Delver, and the deck isn't fair or even fun. Oh you have 5 creatures out to my 1? STILL LOSING THE RACE. Oh you have 5 cards to my 2? LOSING THE RACE EVEN FASTER. Oh you have your nut draw? MANA LEAK-SNAPCASTER-MANA LEAK. This is on top of not flipping Delver consistently (or only about twice total) and misplaying a few games where I am still in a control player's mindset (the only modes I have ever known is attacking for lethal or not attacking and ticking up Karn to 20 million).

The last one is obviously a joke, but seriously fuck Delver and it's interactions (or the lack thereof). There were multiple times where I knew what the opponent HAD to have at a particular game point and it didn't fucking matter because I was holding a Mana Leak. There were multiple times where I knew they can't interact with my threats so they were just drawing dead. There were multiple times I spent mana on my opponent's turn to 2 for them a turn a later because they had to cast shit on their turn.

Edit:

Seclusion is good because as you might noticed, Black's better creatures are pretty damn big and their drawbacks are mitigated provided they are the only ones out. The Lifelink means you are coming out ahead on any 1 for 1 trades. The +3/+1 means you are swinging for a ton (with Lifelink). Let's just say you have a 2/1 Flyer out with Seclusion out also, this means that you are now hitting for 5 lifelink in the air which translates to a 4 turn clock which isn't easy to handle even if they can block. Trading 1 card for 1 card with you gaining 5 is good for the Seclusion player because then you lay another average card like the 5/3, now its a 8/4 that they have to deal with and etc. The deck isn't broken since cards like Cloudshift and Peel can be used to great success in tempo-ing it out but that only really works if the opponent has the board advantage already, which again, isn't always the case.
Get it by your hands...
hkf
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Australia354 Posts
June 01 2012 05:01 GMT
#3455
On June 01 2012 13:58 Judicator wrote:
Dear Wizards, stop printing tempo decks, they have never ever been good for the standard environment.

I just played a few matches (like 10) with Delver, and the deck isn't fair or even fun. Oh you have 5 creatures out to my 1? STILL LOSING THE RACE. Oh you have 5 cards to my 2? LOSING THE RACE EVEN FASTER. Oh you have your nut draw? MANA LEAK-SNAPCASTER-MANA LEAK. This is on top of not flipping Delver consistently (or only about twice total) and misplaying a few games where I am still in a control player's mindset (the only modes I have ever known is attacking for lethal or not attacking and ticking up Karn to 20 million).

The last one is obviously a joke, but seriously fuck Delver and it's interactions (or the lack thereof). There were multiple times where I knew what the opponent HAD to have at a particular game point and it didn't fucking matter because I was holding a Mana Leak. There were multiple times where I knew they can't interact with my threats so they were just drawing dead. There were multiple times I spent mana on my opponent's turn to 2 for them a turn a later because they had to cast shit on their turn.

Never played in odyssey standard I take it
2 years of mongrel go
DEN1ED
Profile Joined December 2009
United States1087 Posts
June 01 2012 05:11 GMT
#3456
Aggro control decks are always the best. Seclusion is amazing because it makes they deal with every creature you play immediately. You can't race it so you have to have an answer to everything. And generally in black decks you have sac outlets and such to easily keep 1 creature in play.
Judicator
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States7270 Posts
June 01 2012 05:12 GMT
#3457
On June 01 2012 14:01 hkf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2012 13:58 Judicator wrote:
Dear Wizards, stop printing tempo decks, they have never ever been good for the standard environment.

I just played a few matches (like 10) with Delver, and the deck isn't fair or even fun. Oh you have 5 creatures out to my 1? STILL LOSING THE RACE. Oh you have 5 cards to my 2? LOSING THE RACE EVEN FASTER. Oh you have your nut draw? MANA LEAK-SNAPCASTER-MANA LEAK. This is on top of not flipping Delver consistently (or only about twice total) and misplaying a few games where I am still in a control player's mindset (the only modes I have ever known is attacking for lethal or not attacking and ticking up Karn to 20 million).

The last one is obviously a joke, but seriously fuck Delver and it's interactions (or the lack thereof). There were multiple times where I knew what the opponent HAD to have at a particular game point and it didn't fucking matter because I was holding a Mana Leak. There were multiple times where I knew they can't interact with my threats so they were just drawing dead. There were multiple times I spent mana on my opponent's turn to 2 for them a turn a later because they had to cast shit on their turn.

Never played in odyssey standard I take it
2 years of mongrel go


I played in Odyssey, Mongrel is still my favorite 2 drop...but that deck didn't have Hexproof and Unblockables. Not to mention 8 power of most of the time unblockable damage along with an uncounterable instant speed 1/1 flyer from dead creatures. Circular Logic was pretty brutal though and killing the Dog was pretty impossible, still that deck isn't anywhere as bad this one (hello swords).
Get it by your hands...
hkf
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Australia354 Posts
June 01 2012 06:05 GMT
#3458
On June 01 2012 14:12 Judicator wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2012 14:01 hkf wrote:
On June 01 2012 13:58 Judicator wrote:
Dear Wizards, stop printing tempo decks, they have never ever been good for the standard environment.

I just played a few matches (like 10) with Delver, and the deck isn't fair or even fun. Oh you have 5 creatures out to my 1? STILL LOSING THE RACE. Oh you have 5 cards to my 2? LOSING THE RACE EVEN FASTER. Oh you have your nut draw? MANA LEAK-SNAPCASTER-MANA LEAK. This is on top of not flipping Delver consistently (or only about twice total) and misplaying a few games where I am still in a control player's mindset (the only modes I have ever known is attacking for lethal or not attacking and ticking up Karn to 20 million).

The last one is obviously a joke, but seriously fuck Delver and it's interactions (or the lack thereof). There were multiple times where I knew what the opponent HAD to have at a particular game point and it didn't fucking matter because I was holding a Mana Leak. There were multiple times where I knew they can't interact with my threats so they were just drawing dead. There were multiple times I spent mana on my opponent's turn to 2 for them a turn a later because they had to cast shit on their turn.

Never played in odyssey standard I take it
2 years of mongrel go


I played in Odyssey, Mongrel is still my favorite 2 drop...but that deck didn't have Hexproof and Unblockables. Not to mention 8 power of most of the time unblockable damage along with an uncounterable instant speed 1/1 flyer from dead creatures. Circular Logic was pretty brutal though and killing the Dog was pretty impossible, still that deck isn't anywhere as bad this one (hello swords).

Wonder wars would like to disagree
I think ug gives delver a run for its money.
Judicator
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States7270 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-01 15:33:20
June 01 2012 15:30 GMT
#3459
On June 01 2012 15:05 hkf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2012 14:12 Judicator wrote:
On June 01 2012 14:01 hkf wrote:
On June 01 2012 13:58 Judicator wrote:
Dear Wizards, stop printing tempo decks, they have never ever been good for the standard environment.

I just played a few matches (like 10) with Delver, and the deck isn't fair or even fun. Oh you have 5 creatures out to my 1? STILL LOSING THE RACE. Oh you have 5 cards to my 2? LOSING THE RACE EVEN FASTER. Oh you have your nut draw? MANA LEAK-SNAPCASTER-MANA LEAK. This is on top of not flipping Delver consistently (or only about twice total) and misplaying a few games where I am still in a control player's mindset (the only modes I have ever known is attacking for lethal or not attacking and ticking up Karn to 20 million).

The last one is obviously a joke, but seriously fuck Delver and it's interactions (or the lack thereof). There were multiple times where I knew what the opponent HAD to have at a particular game point and it didn't fucking matter because I was holding a Mana Leak. There were multiple times where I knew they can't interact with my threats so they were just drawing dead. There were multiple times I spent mana on my opponent's turn to 2 for them a turn a later because they had to cast shit on their turn.

Never played in odyssey standard I take it
2 years of mongrel go


I played in Odyssey, Mongrel is still my favorite 2 drop...but that deck didn't have Hexproof and Unblockables. Not to mention 8 power of most of the time unblockable damage along with an uncounterable instant speed 1/1 flyer from dead creatures. Circular Logic was pretty brutal though and killing the Dog was pretty impossible, still that deck isn't anywhere as bad this one (hello swords).

Wonder wars would like to disagree
I think ug gives delver a run for its money.


Fair enough, in their respective formats I can see your point, but Delver is still more degenerate seeing how it just turns off certain interactions straight up with hexproof. I guess my point is that UG didn't trade up as well as Delver does. The answers for Delver require multiple slots, and mostly higher costing mana cards.
Get it by your hands...
Durp
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada3117 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-01 15:41:28
June 01 2012 15:35 GMT
#3460
I couldn't be happier that they're reprinting Nicol Bolas. I bought a single booster of Conflux long after it cycled out for shits and giggles, and cracked a foil Bolas. It has sat in the trader binder for so long, and finally it's going to get some play.

I wish the format didn't shit all over grixis control.

edit; also pretty stoked for captain of the watch
SOOOOOooooOOOOooooOOOOoo Many BANELINGS!!
Prev 1 171 172 173 174 175 665 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 43m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 516
JuggernautJason58
CosmosSc2 8
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 19692
Calm 2317
firebathero 106
NaDa 6
Last 0
Dota 2
Gorgc8646
monkeys_forever222
League of Legends
Doublelift3625
Counter-Strike
pashabiceps2214
fl0m2090
Fnx 1768
allub427
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu393
Other Games
Grubby5276
FrodaN1714
Liquid`RaSZi1638
B2W.Neo456
C9.Mang0221
Hui .187
KnowMe162
ArmadaUGS111
UpATreeSC98
Mew2King88
mouzStarbuck47
Livibee46
Organizations
StarCraft 2
angryscii 19
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 20 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 25
• Reevou 6
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 27
• HerbMon 14
• FirePhoenix12
• Michael_bg 8
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota253
Other Games
• imaqtpie1194
• Shiphtur315
• WagamamaTV192
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
3h 43m
RSL Revival
13h 43m
Classic vs Solar
herO vs SHIN
OSC
16h 43m
Big Brain Bouts
19h 43m
sebesdes vs Iba
Percival vs YoungYakov
Reynor vs GgMaChine
Korean StarCraft League
1d 6h
RSL Revival
1d 13h
Clem vs Rogue
Bunny vs Lambo
IPSL
1d 19h
Dewalt vs nOmaD
Ret vs Cross
BSL
1d 22h
Bonyth vs Doodle
Dewalt vs TerrOr
GSL
2 days
Cure vs herO
SHIN vs Maru
IPSL
2 days
Bonyth vs Napoleon
G5 vs JDConan
[ Show More ]
BSL
2 days
OyAji vs JDConan
DragOn vs TBD
Replay Cast
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
The PondCast
4 days
GSL
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
GSL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-05-13
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
KK 2v2 League Season 1
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
SCTL 2026 Spring
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
Heroes Pulsing #1
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W7
YSL S3
Escore Tournament S2: W8
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
WardiTV Spring 2026
2026 GSL S2
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.