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Skilledblob
Germany3392 Posts
On August 22 2011 17:46 Manit0u wrote: They could at least include 5v5 GvG? And a separate tournament system/ladder for guilds instead of regular teams. I mean, how hard could it be? looks like they want to cater to the WoW generation with their PvP system | ||
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kickinhead
Switzerland2069 Posts
Okay, maybe there won't be a Guild-Ladder or sth., but is that really that big of a Problem? Or are People upset that there isn't a 8v8-Mode with Flagstand, NPC's, Guild Lord and stuff like that? Because the absence of that mode may be compensated for by the much more action-oriented gameplay - and do you really need 8 players with no dedicated healer and no Flagrunner? i don't think so. I'd certainly like to see more modes than just "capture the points", but that doesn't necessarily mean that we absolutely need 8v8's with Guild-Ladder, special GvG-Rewards and the very specific GvG-Gameplay with Flags etc. Don't get me wrong - I was a hardcore GvG-player that played for very high-level Guilds like Capita Cerberi (in their Prime with their mixed-spike, but I was Infuser anyways ^^'), Bruderschaft der Verdammnis (Top-20 in the World while I was playing there) and played with ppl from Peace and Harmony, Esoteric Warriors and pretty much the best players in the world. But the reason I played GvG instead of AdH was just, that in AdH, it was much easier to abuse certain Builds and it just required less strategic skill and if you wanted to play serious PvP, 8v8 was basically the only way to go. But with the gameplay of GW2 being so different, I think 5v5 is a viable number of players and with 5 players per build and a completely different Gameplay and Template-Building-Style, I guess this mode could be kinda balanced and not too abusable and will require a lot of skill - so where exactly is the Problem? | ||
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Skilledblob
Germany3392 Posts
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SebaZ
Italy223 Posts
On August 22 2011 17:01 Morfildur wrote: Thats so.... stupid -.- "We've seen that people had fun in GvG but some guilds didn't manage to form a team so we decided to scrap GvG completely. If you liked GvG, you can still play other PvP." Adding a GW1 style GvG would have been a big waste of resources for them (not only they would have to create the game mode and the maps, but they would also have to balance it, and that would be a lot of extra work). The GW2 GvG is the 5v5 we've seen in the videos. That's what they're going for, that's the gametype they want to turn into the next e-sport. They're betting everything on it, so they don't feel like wasting time on other gametypes that may or may not be successful. | ||
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Skilledblob
Germany3392 Posts
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optical630
United Kingdom768 Posts
i think they will implement it if it is high enough demand. but it will be unranked imo | ||
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kickinhead
Switzerland2069 Posts
On August 22 2011 19:15 Skilledblob wrote: the problem is that there is no guild war in a game named guild wars So your only Problem is based on semantics? I mean: 8v8 was necessary in GW, because the skill-cap needed to make GW a legit e-Sport that required a lot of skill (and in it's own, insular community, GW was IMHO a successful e-Sport), was heavily based upon the number of players involved in a game. Only in 8v8, you required a lot of strategic play, quick reactions, a good read and anticipation and a very good map-awareness and awareness of all the 16 Players on the field. If you had like 5v5, GvG would've been a total disaster that basically required no skill and depended on heavily abusing common pressure-builds. GW2 is a completely different game - much better self-heal, no hexes, no mana-drain etc. which leads to no reason to have dedicated healers (-2 players). It's also much more action-oriented (requires more skill even with fewer players on the field) und much more fast-paced. So it's just completely natural to have the main PvP-Mode be 5v5. And to be honest: If there was one thing I hated about GvG, it was the amount of planning, waiting, talking and even sometimes shouting and raging involved, when you needed to be 8 players on at the same time to play. My thousands of hours playing GvG literally came down to waiting half the time, if not more... With 5 players per Team, it's gonna be MUCH easier and that's IMHO awesome and with ArenaNet trying to make the game more accessible, a huge step in the right direction. My question is: Are there any other Maps with different objectives planned for PvP or with other stuff to do instead of capturing points and killing the opposing players? Like Maps with Catapults, Flags or Reliqs to carry around for certain boni or anything like that? Just to give a little more deptht than just capture the point? That's atm. my only concern... | ||
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Takyn
Germany42 Posts
On August 22 2011 21:04 kickinhead wrote: GW2 is a completely different game This is really important for hardcore GW1 players to understand, or you are just setting yourself up to be disappointed. This is not an updated GW1, it's also no WoW, it's something in between and hardcore GW1 PvP players are not the #1 target audience. On August 22 2011 21:04 kickinhead wrote: My question is: Are there any other Maps with different objectives planned for PvP or with other stuff to do instead of capturing points and killing the opposing players? Like Maps with Catapults, Flags or Reliqs to carry around for certain boni or anything like that? Just to give a little more deptht than just capture the point? That's atm. my only concern... One of the devs I talked to said that there will be different objectives, but did not go into any specifics, not even the timeframe when we might see those. Another one who was more involved with the PvP development told me that they tried different modes and the Conquest mode was simply the most fun. So atm they are going with that mode only, but there might be more later. They are using secondary mechanics like the trebuchets to spice things up and there will be examples of those that alter the game mode slightly from map to map. | ||
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kickinhead
Switzerland2069 Posts
On August 22 2011 21:11 Takyn wrote: This is really important for hardcore GW1 players to understand, or you are just setting yourself up to be disappointed. This is not an updated GW1, it's also no WoW, it's something in between and hardcore GW1 PvP players are not the #1 target audience. IMHO, what most hardcore GW1-Players are looking for, that also set GW1 apart from other MMO's, is a balanced, strategic PvP-Mode, that requires a lot of Skill. Look at WoW-Arena for example: it's a hot steaming 3v3 Deathmatch-Mess on very restricted Maps with nothing to do but kill the other Team. With a totally different Gameplay and Options to build your Character and Teams surrounding them, I think the real PvP-Fanatics will most likely understand that for GW2 to work as an e-Sport, you don't necessarily need the same exact PvP-Mode. I mean; what really made GW1 so special, was the ability to create a Build with different Characters, so that the Build itself and the Characters in it had very specific roles to fullfill and the ability to strategically coordinate your players and the skill it required to play them. I can totally see how in GW2 5v5, there will still be builds that focus on heavy pressure and killing off enemy Characters by overrunning them, there will still be various ways to develop good Splits (like 2-2-1 teams than work well alone) and with the new Gameplay, playing your characters right will require a lot more skill, even in smaller battles. Strategically, there will be IMHO a lot of options, because managing a Team with 5 players that can split up in any combination to combat whatever combinations the opponent throws at you, offers a lot of strategical options. So I guess everything that set GW1 GvG apart from other MMO's, can still be found in GW2 - which is basically everything I'm asking for as of yet. And with a lot of New Skills, a new class, new Maps with maybe even new Objectives to be unvealed, I wouldn't just say that GW2 is doomed, just because there will be no Mode that is basically the same as GvG in GW1. Though I have to say, I'll really miss killing off NPC's and ganking Flagrunners with a 4-3-1 Split or sth. ^^' On the other Hand - I won't miss having to face a NecSpike on Burning Isle either. ^^' Oh btw. Sth. completely different: how does the Health of Characters relate to the damage dealt by the Opponents? if it's anything like in GW1, 4-5 players (maybe even less) spiking one target and maybe knocking them down/dazing them at the same time, will result in certain death without any designated healers/protectors... | ||
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RoyalCheese
Czech Republic745 Posts
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Divine-Sneaker
Denmark1225 Posts
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Roggle
United States142 Posts
On August 22 2011 21:39 RoyalCheese wrote: Also, you guys should remember that there will be 10v10 pvp. From what i heard in interviews anyway That was mentioned regarding "hot join" games, which were stated as spanning sizes from 1v1 to 10v10. Those are being treated as the casual PvP option, however. For competitive PvP - which is what most people in the discussion are concerned with - the size is restricted to 5v5. In regards to the removal of GvG as a form of PvP, I honestly think this was the right choice for them to make, as much as I'd like to see it in myself. By sticking to one form of competitive PvP, they're eliminating the competition between their own modes of gameplay. If they tried to push the Conquest mode as their competitive PvP, but the community tried to support GvG as the competitive mode even though it wasn't officially supported by ANet, neither mode would really take off. In replacing GvG with Conquest as their competitive PvP mode, they're also taking the emphasis off the guild and placing it more on the team. If the team happens to be from the same guild, then the prestige of the team will also bleed into the guild for fielding such a team, and even moreso if there are multiple high-level teams within the same guild. But at the same time, they're not pigeonholing all the competitive PvPers into the same guilds without regards for any other factors (RL friends in other guilds, etc.). We'll just have to wait and see what other things they have planned for guilds to take the place of GvG. | ||
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RoyalCheese
Czech Republic745 Posts
On August 23 2011 00:02 Roggle wrote: That was mentioned regarding "hot join" games, which were stated as spanning sizes from 1v1 to 10v10. Those are being treated as the casual PvP option, however. For competitive PvP - which is what most people in the discussion are concerned with - the size is restricted to 5v5. Oh, i see. My bad. | ||
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Roggle
United States142 Posts
No worries, it's an easy detail to miss among the flood of information we've been getting recently.  | ||
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irninja
United States1220 Posts
Here are some already mentioned. Coming from the rise and fall of GvG popularity, how do you feel this new style of Guild Wars competitive play feels compared to the previous generation? How do you feel the general e-sports "feel" is going having had officially the first taste of it? We know the game is still in it's early stages, but do you feel the PvP in Guild Wars 2 is as fast-paced as the original? How about the theoretical skill cap? In regards to the trebuchet and other certain variables on pvp maps, do you feel that these additions will be taken seriously in the competitive scene, or do they seem a bit "random"? How do you feel the CC (crowd control) is in this game, in comparison to say, WoW? Do you feel the CC's tend to stack very well, or have you found times where you were incapacitated too much? Are certain classes better at this? In keeping up with all of the matches, and watching your team fight especially well in the very last set of matches, you seemed to have changed the strategy for the better. What did your team change to give ArenaNet a run for its money those last rounds? If there were up and coming guilds looking to compete on the level you all did, and they asked for your experience, what would be the biggest advice you'd give them to be ready for the competitive scene? How do you feel about the decision to drop GvG and replace it with the various modes they've implemented now? In regards to nuking, applying mass amounts of damage in a very short time-span, was this prevalent in your run with GW2? Were there certain classed that perhaps defined a "nuke" type class, or a "dot" class? We hear a lot about the idea of not having a trinity, but yet while watching still felt certain classes were better suited for particular positions than others. Do you feel that certain classes in your experience have currently certain skillsets that let's say, make them more suited for holding a point? Or perhaps a class that is better as soloing than another? How do you feel ArenaNet did with the implementation of dyed armor? Did you find this made it easier to distinguish enemies from friendlies, or would you prefer enemy nameplates or capes like GW1 instead? Having experience this structured PvP, how excited for WvW are you guys? Were there times while playing a ranged class that you felt you were missing a bit too much? Or did the accuracy of spells and abilities seem dead-on? While having seen a thief in combat, do you feel the presence of stealth was very apparent? Is the thief comparable to say, the rogue from WoW, like a hit-and-run type class? There's been a great discussion going about the power of elite skills and their long cooldown. You've experienced and used them yourselves, what new do they bring to the game, are they the game-changers we've been told about? | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17843 Posts
You can see some of it from the videos, but a broader perspective would've been nice. | ||
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irninja
United States1220 Posts
On August 23 2011 11:19 Manit0u wrote: Could you ask them how many and what types of different builds/strategies did they try out against ArenaNet and which ones proved to be the best? Also, if they can recall, what kind of strategies did ArenaNet run against theirs. You can see some of it from the videos, but a broader perspective would've been nice. I will ask your second one. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17843 Posts
It's basically just one question: What strategies/builds did teams run in PvP and which were the most successful? Perhaps there will be some pattern for us to theorycraft on | ||
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E_minus
Russian Federation60 Posts
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Josri
Netherlands219 Posts
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