Guild Wars 2 - Page 120

On March 14 2012 18:37 topoulo wrote:


I love their pvp system wich resembles Daoc , graphics , their pve , some of the classes.

I do rly hate the lack of character progression in pvp both from gear or and abilities this is a huge nono for me.

Having perma access to a polished beta was a treat for me to pre buy or even buy the game ( since i rly rly rly hate the lack of character progression once more, feels like dota to me ) also theres the D3 release and tbh i dont know which to buy and focus of these 2.

Gameplay wise gw2 seems like the best overall by far but again i dont see holding me after a couple of months due to this lack of self accomplishment gw2 lacks

On March 14 2012 18:43 Skilledblob wrote:


maybe WoW is more up your alley I heard it got plenty of shiny items

On March 14 2012 19:04 topoulo wrote:


Maybe wow got you thinking there only items as character progression.

You clealry missed the part ive said about their pvp system resembling Daoc.

Now if you werent posting like a trol you could have known that daoc had unparalleled pvp progression through ranks which game unlocked passive and active abilities and gave passive bonuses to health , damage and resists.

This is what rpg all about character progression.

Yea armor and in general items progression is sub par but is better than nothing which is what Gw2 will provide

On March 14 2012 19:04 topoulo wrote:

Yea armor and in general items progression is sub par but is better than nothing which is what Gw2 will provide

On March 14 2012 19:11 Tobberoth wrote:

Character progression in PvP is boring since it means skill is irrelevant, time played is important because it gives bonuses. It's like when you're playing LoL. You play hours upon hours and you get to lvl 15. You play a game vs a lvl 30 account, and you can't really do shit because they have way more health and do way more damage. You basically have to go "Oh, I'm better than him but he played for longer, so it's fair". No, it isn't fair. It's dumb as hell.

Progression is fine if it's just cosmetic though.

On March 14 2012 19:11 Tobberoth wrote:

Character progression in PvP is boring since it means skill is irrelevant, time played is important because it gives bonuses. It's like when you're playing LoL. You play hours upon hours and you get to lvl 15. You play a game vs a lvl 30 account, and you can't really do shit because they have way more health and do way more damage. You basically have to go "Oh, I'm better than him but he played for longer, so it's fair". No, it isn't fair. It's dumb as hell.

Progression is fine if it's just cosmetic though.

On March 14 2012 19:34 MethodSC wrote:


That's not true at all. In DAoC, RR and RA's didn't trump skill. If my group is a bunch of RR5's and they are RR7's we can still win, if we outplay them. The challenge is to give enough depth to the classes to make the bonuses nearly irrelevant if used incorrectly and to make them give an advantage if used correctly. Making the game as situational as possible is the key to having any successful or worthwhile pvp.

On March 14 2012 20:08 Skilledblob wrote:
they can do a lot with the guilds if you are really that much into showing off to others. But giving people extra abilities and better gear just because they grinded long enough? No thanks. Give the grinders a big ass castle in the PvP region for their guild and let them improve that.

On March 14 2012 20:15 grs wrote:

I think you - intentionally - fail to see the point. Character progression is not "showing off" and "shiny stuff". It is about bringing RPG elements into PvP, without a grind, which I think would be awesome. If I would answer in your tone I could say "go play a Dota game if you don't care for GW2 being an rpg".

On March 14 2012 20:23 Tobberoth wrote:

Just go play Wow battlegrounds before you're max level and you'll see how fun it is with the kind of RPG elements you're talking about in PvP.

On March 14 2012 20:27 grs wrote:

I have played WOW for many years; still I don't see why a new game can't do a better implementation.

On March 14 2012 20:12 Tobberoth wrote:

But what's the point of non cosmetic progression? To reward people for just playing a lot and giving them an advantage, because their advantage of having more experience isn't enough? It would be like saying that you'll start with X amount of minerals and gas in SC2 based on your league, it just feels stupid.

Let high level PvPers get very cool looking gear, cool titles, exclusive mounts and stuff like that, give people a reason to want to be good... don't give them an advantage just because they are already good.

On March 14 2012 20:48 topoulo wrote:
Lets remove the gear earned from pve as well and lets see how this will feel like , just pve for the heck of it

Heck lets remove all rpg elements because some will have clear advantage over others .

Hey isnt there a genre called fps for that ?

Tbh if gw2 dont start rewarding time and effort in pvp i dont see it flurish like it should have been in the end it would just been a glorified dota - lol

On March 14 2012 21:03 Tobberoth wrote:

PvE and PvP is not comparable. If a guild has beaten the toughest bosses and have bad ass gear, that doesn't change anything for me who hasn't killed any of the end bosses and have shit gear. It just means their guild is more successful and has completed the challenges quicker.

In PvP, there's a dependence on you being able to fight other players and if they are better than you because they spent more time, this becomes broken. You can catch up in PvE, just get your guild together and deal with the PvE challenges. In PvP, how will you catch up when you're losing because you don't have the bonuses and you're not getting the bonuses because you're not winning? And how are you enjoying this? PvE is just as fun in bad gear as in good gear, you deal with the challenges in your reach. PvP without bonuses is hardly going to be fun unless you're in a situation where you only play against other people without bonuses... then what was the point of the bonuses again?

On March 14 2012 21:17 MethodSC wrote:


But this thinking doesn't compute to how a progression system works within this framework.

1) The bonuses that you get won't give you an insurmountable advantage
2) If there are no rewards that you can feel, there's no reason to keep playing
3) Most of the time you will be fighting alongside other people, meaning that 1v1 almost never happens. Why? Because this is a keep capture based system, so most of the fighting will either be near the keeps, with mass fighting, or groups roaming to score kills or fight other groups. Having no stealth class also makes 1v1 even more unlikely.

On March 14 2012 21:03 Tobberoth wrote:

PvE and PvP is not comparable. If a guild has beaten the toughest bosses and have bad ass gear, that doesn't change anything for me who hasn't killed any of the end bosses and have shit gear. It just means their guild is more successful and has completed the challenges quicker.

In PvP, there's a dependence on you being able to fight other players and if they are better than you because they spent more time, this becomes broken. You can catch up in PvE, just get your guild together and deal with the PvE challenges. In PvP, how will you catch up when you're losing because you don't have the bonuses and you're not getting the bonuses because you're not winning? And how are you enjoying this? PvE is just as fun in bad gear as in good gear, you deal with the challenges in your reach. PvP without bonuses is hardly going to be fun unless you're in a situation where you only play against other people without bonuses... then what was the point of the bonuses again?

On March 14 2012 21:22 Tobberoth wrote:

1) An advantage is an advantage. People whine every day about imbalance in SC2 which isn't even there, think about the whine when people lose to someone who has 5% more HP?
2) Sure there is. Play to get better, play to enjoy being good, play for cosmetic progression.
3) While this might be a defence for giving advantages to grinders, it doesn't explain what the point is. And it's shallow, 3v3 is even worse if you get into a situation where the other team all have better bonuses which I suppose is common when it comes to guilds playing. The only interesting situation would be a bigger team vs a smaller team which has advantages... but even then, there's not much enjoyment to be had and there's no reason to believe the stronger team will be fewer in numbers.

On March 14 2012 20:32 Tobberoth wrote:

The implementation isn't the issue, the idea that playing for longer gives you an advantage is just boring. When you're in a competitive situation and lose, you want to know that you failed because of your or his play, not because of various bonuses he got because he played longer. Playing battleground is horrible because unless you're the level right under the max, you'll be owned constantly by people who are, which makes it boring. You kill the people below your level and you're killed by the people above, it's not about you killing people because you're better.

Even if skill trumphfs the bonuses, the problem is that the bonuses are there and they have no place in the situation. It's only fun for the people at the top because their chances to win are improved for no reason at all.