EPTNew Bioshock: Infinite - Page 8
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Aerisky
United States12129 Posts
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Dibella
Germany79 Posts
On March 20 2013 07:44 nortorius wrote: All the pre-order bonuses are unlocked for Bioshock: Infinite if anyone's interested! The most notable bonus being a free copy of the new X-COM You also get XCOM when you Pre-Order the Game on GMG and its cheaper. BUT DON'T! Only retards Pre-Order games! Especially ones that are likely to suck! | ||
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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
On March 19 2013 21:58 Yacobs wrote: So, the console versions have leaked already and, thanks to that, there are some people that have been streaming the game (at least until they get shut down). After watching for a while, I can say that the game looks worse than I could ever have imagined. This Elizabeth character is basically equivalent to mandatory God Mode. During gunfights, whenever you need anything, she just throws it to you from an infinite supply (is that why this game is called Infinite?). She'll give you infinite amounts of health, mana, and ammunition. To make matters worse, if you're so bad at the game that you still manage to die with infinite resources, Elizabeth instantly revives you right then and there. Even if you jump off a ledge into the abyss, she will just revive you at the edge of the platform like nothing happened. You quite literally CANNOT DIE in this game. Now I know why there's this "1999 Mode" in the game -- because apparently Ken Levine believes that 1999 was the last era when video gamers could possibly stand the thought of not winning a game with no effort. Also, this 1999 Mode requires you to beat the entire game once before you're even allowed to access it. This shows you how dumb Levine believes his consumer-base to be -- he's so afraid someone will accidentally activate it, it's tucked away as deep into the game as you can imagine. Further evidence the game believes you are clinically retarded. There are several scenes where things like this happen. You come upon a ledge and Elizabeth says "THIS IS A GOOD SNIPING AREA!" and she just tosses you a sniper rifle, conjuring it out of thin air, and it replaces whatever weapon you were holding at the time. What a huge disappointment. Lol, sounds like the same problem as in BioShock 1, did they learn nothing? A game can't be hard or challenging if you remove the aspect of punishment. Same problem with Prince Of Persia 360, meaningless game. No matter how hard you make the game, if you get revived instantly, it's not hard, it's just boring and a waste of time. Thank god for old games where you had infinite continues but at least had to replay big parts until you learned them, which was the whole part. Going from being a n00b to replaying it until you knew it well. | ||
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Silvanel
Poland4736 Posts
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Mikilatov
United States3897 Posts
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Rookstarz
Canada136 Posts
On March 19 2013 21:58 Yacobs wrote: So, the console versions have leaked already and, thanks to that, there are some people that have been streaming the game (at least until they get shut down). After watching for a while, I can say that the game looks worse than I could ever have imagined. This Elizabeth character is basically equivalent to mandatory God Mode. During gunfights, whenever you need anything, she just throws it to you from an infinite supply (is that why this game is called Infinite?). She'll give you infinite amounts of health, mana, and ammunition. To make matters worse, if you're so bad at the game that you still manage to die with infinite resources, Elizabeth instantly revives you right then and there. Even if you jump off a ledge into the abyss, she will just revive you at the edge of the platform like nothing happened. You quite literally CANNOT DIE in this game. Now I know why there's this "1999 Mode" in the game -- because apparently Ken Levine believes that 1999 was the last era when video gamers could possibly stand the thought of not winning a game with no effort. Also, this 1999 Mode requires you to beat the entire game once before you're even allowed to access it. This shows you how dumb Levine believes his consumer-base to be -- he's so afraid someone will accidentally activate it, it's tucked away as deep into the game as you can imagine. Further evidence the game believes you are clinically retarded. There are several scenes where things like this happen. You come upon a ledge and Elizabeth says "THIS IS A GOOD SNIPING AREA!" and she just tosses you a sniper rifle, conjuring it out of thin air, and it replaces whatever weapon you were holding at the time. What a huge disappointment. Man you have no idea how much I pray that this is all wrong info T.T I have such high hopes for this game. Was able to even convince two friends to buy into this considering how much I loved Bioshock 1/2 to get this game. | ||
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Yacobs
United States846 Posts
On March 21 2013 04:58 Mikilatov wrote: The game is pretty damn fun... But I can't say for sure how it shaped up near the end of development. I worked on this game for a bit at 2K, but haven't personally been a part of the development for the past 6 months. There had been some issues with feature/content creep/alterations far past when they should have been done, so hopefully it wrapped up nicely. Any comments on Elizabeth ultra-babysitting the player? | ||
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Infernal_dream
United States2359 Posts
On March 21 2013 03:50 Tobberoth wrote: Lol, sounds like the same problem as in BioShock 1, did they learn nothing? A game can't be hard or challenging if you remove the aspect of punishment. Same problem with Prince Of Persia 360, meaningless game. No matter how hard you make the game, if you get revived instantly, it's not hard, it's just boring and a waste of time. Thank god for old games where you had infinite continues but at least had to replay big parts until you learned them, which was the whole part. Going from being a n00b to replaying it until you knew it well. There was plenty of punishment in bioshock 1 for dying. Maybe if you didn't play the hardest mode it didn't matter but ammo/energy was an issue if you died a lot. There's plenty of games that have had a revive esque type system where you dont have to redo the whole level and have been successful. As for Elizabeth being godmode well....every series is seeing a horrible death lately so this wouldn't surprise me in the least. | ||
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Xiron
Germany1233 Posts
just wanted to let you know that you can get Bioshock Infinite + Bioshock 1 + Xcom Enemy Unknown + ("Bioshock 2" or "Mafia 2" or "Spec Ops The Line" or "Darkness 2" or "Civilization 5") for 37€/$ on greenmangaming.com/bundles/ Still considering if I should go for it.. | ||
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Mikilatov
United States3897 Posts
On March 21 2013 05:05 Yacobs wrote: Any comments on Elizabeth ultra-babysitting the player? Can't really comment too much on it, as her specific tuning wasn't really completed when I was working on it. I will say that the focus was very much on Elizabeth not being a hinderance/annoyance to the player (See Resident Evil 4), so this is likely the cause of her 'babysitting' behavior you're referring to. If lack of difficulty is the issue, difficulties/1999 mode is always there. That being said, I don't know what the final tuning of that was like, either. | ||
Firebolt145
Lalalaland34498 Posts
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Narg
Finland99 Posts
On March 21 2013 05:56 Firebolt145 wrote: Well, just bought the game. Am downloading Bioshock 1 as well, never played any of the series before this, though the videos I've seen of the games have always intrigued me. The atmosphere always attracted me more than anything. I especially love the sky thing they've got going with Infinite, it looks beautiful. When playing 1, you should play on hardest and instead of reviving in vitachambers when you die, just load the game. Enjoyed the game 10 times more after those self-restrictions. | ||
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wUndertUnge
United States1125 Posts
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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
On March 21 2013 06:35 wUndertUnge wrote: I actually found the Vita Chambers to be more of a hindrance in BioShock 1. If I died, I was already on the point of no return. Low eve, low ammo, low med kits, etc. So? Enemies do not respawn, nor regen. Kill them with melee, vita chamber revives are unlimited. | ||
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
Games not focused on looking for ammo, health, etc, is because the focus lies somewhere else in the gameplay, where such things could be considered distractions, or too frustrating for the experience the creator had in mind. If the focus is elsewhere, then there is good reason to think that you need all the help you can get. | ||
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Yacobs
United States846 Posts
On March 21 2013 07:18 Dracolich70 wrote: In most games you respawn when you die. In most games you have sort of endless amount of ammo. Mana is also usually infinite, as it replenishes itself, oft times hurried with potions. Most games are God Mode. Games not focused on looking for ammo, health, etc, is because the focus lies somewhere else in the gameplay, where such things could be considered distractions, or too frustrating for the experience the creator had in mind. If the focus is elsewhere, then there is good reason to think that you need all the help you can get. It's not about "looking for ammo, health, etc." It's about getting those resources instantly and for free in the middle of a battle with no effort expended by the player. In other words, the game appears to have cheat mode on by default. | ||
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
On March 21 2013 07:31 Yacobs wrote: Yes, but then it is about looking for ammo, health, since you feel it is cheating not to. As I tried to clarify, when the focus lies elsewhere than in locating resources, but rather being granted unlimited, then it is because the focus of the gameplay is elsewhere, and would most likely be a distractor or even impossible. When a player needs to reserve/economize with resources, it is because this is what it is part of the difficulty within the gameplay. When it does not, the difficulties lies elsewhereIt's not about "looking for ammo, health, etc." It's about getting those resources instantly and for free in the middle of a battle with no effort expended by the player. In other words, the game appears to have cheat mode on by default. I see this option as a kind of streamlined option also, rather than a dumbed down. However, I think the main reason lies in what difficulties you face otherwise. The whole finding medi-kits, ammo lying around everywhere is a rather tired solution in my book, to get the sense of you are against the wall, and ultimately not one that actually requires skill or much effort, just tedious, although meaningful tasks. I think you see where I am going with this. If ammo, medi-kits etc wasn't lying scattered around, or something similar, like very limited ammo, health, then your other trials cannot be too harsh. If you do not have to concern yourself with these things, then the obstacles are something else. Of course if the game fails to deliver difficulty, then it fails. It can still be entertaining and immersive - even when granted powers of a God. There are trials for Gods as well. Edit: PS, in short there is a difference in a game designed to have this "cheat", and gaining a cheat in a game where it wasn't within game design(Read: trainers), where of course the game themselves would be incredibly dull with such god modes. PPS Your complaints about being respawned by Elizabeth when jumping off a cliff to your death, seems a bit odd in gaming sense, since it is incredibly common to respawn after you fail. Or reload from a saved option - again when you failed. If the game does not have these, then the difficulties lies therein and cannot provide you with tasks that are of mammoth proportions, else the game fails as well, as it gets too frustrating. Saving/respawning/medikits/ are somewhat God Mode in some sense, yes? | ||
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Yacobs
United States846 Posts
On March 21 2013 08:54 Dracolich70 wrote: PPS Your complaints about being respawned by Elizabeth when jumping off a cliff to your death, seems a bit odd in gaming sense, since it is incredibly common to respawn after you fail. Or reload from a saved option - again when you failed. If the game does not have these, then the difficulties lies therein and cannot provide you with tasks that are of mammoth proportions, else the game fails as well, as it gets too frustrating. Saving/respawning/medikits/ are somewhat God Mode in some sense, yes? Dying in games should cost time and/or resources. I guarantee dying in Infinite will not cost meaningful resources (since they never bother to balance money in these games to be meaningfully scarce), so that means the only resource you can lose by dying is time. If the game respawns you right where you died, dying doesn't cost any time either. Which means there is no consequence whatsoever of dying. Since you seem to be a fan of streamlining, why didn't they just remove dying entirely from the game? | ||
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spacemonkeyy
Australia477 Posts
I also dislike how incredibly soft dieing is punished. Old games were probably slightly easier than hard mode games of today but dieing had more consequence. Am I the only person that feels this wah about choosing difficulties? | ||
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
On March 21 2013 09:46 Yacobs wrote: Do you value DT as something of worthwhile investments to a game? DT is the meaningless part of a punishment. Sometimes it can even become frustrating, if a game has few checkpoints, no save options etc. I see those as detractors from most games, and only in few fit right in with the agenda of the game, rather than poor design judgments.Dying in games should cost time and/or resources. I guarantee dying in Infinite will not cost meaningful resources (since they never bother to balance money in these games to be meaningfully scarce), so that means the only resource you can lose by dying is time. If the game respawns you right where you died, dying doesn't cost any time either. Which means there is no consequence whatsoever of dying. Since you seem to be a fan of streamlining, why didn't they just remove dying entirely from the game? Menial tasks are also detractors from a good gaming experience - well, unless it really caters to this aspect of the gaming experience. However, FPS is not really such a category. FPS is about action. You having non-stop action while in battle means you are constantly held to adrenaline and the action, while punishment with DT of varied length, removes you from this action, and in actuality the main aspect of the game. This could turn out to be a good choice by the creators. A loss in resources can be good, if the game is built around resources, or if it is part of game choice. If it is not, then of course this is not part of a punishment. I do not think the punishments should be the main focus of game design. Resource gathering is not really the forte of FPS, at least not most. And is definitively not a be all, end all formula of game design for the genre. I do not think I have experienced a FPS where you lost something valuable in resources by dying, so in essence, all you lose is time of varied lengths - away from where you want to be. Being short on ammo, when you face a boss fight, can be an irritating factor, but of course can be part of the charm. A game is about presenting an experience, where a gamer is entertained and tested, this can be done is a number of ways. You're trying to fit it into a certain criteria, to which the FPS gaming world has done the most, when they were planted there in the first place to give more survivability to the gamer so they could add this in to the obstacles of the difficulty, while everything is pretty Godlike as compared to the real world. Nonetheless, you do respawn in all FPS games. I am pretty old-school gamer, that has gamed for 30 years, so I am conservative in some aspects, but have also learned that some streamlining is actually pretty good, while dumbing down, is hurtful to those who like depth in gameplay. I used to draw maps by hand as there were no map when pressing "M", love games with multitude of stats presented in numbers, rather than graphic interpretations. I have seen the world of gaming evolve, devolve, transform, adapt, and what not. You may not realize that many of the things you value today, in itself are streamlined things, trying to cut DT from the actual game experience, where DT rarely fit well in games, or in reality trying to cater to a wider audience. I have played on machines 30 years ago, where there was no DT at all, only indication of loss of life indicator, and where a game over meant you needed to put in more coins into the slot. Tasks like finding medikits, ammo, dying to be respawned somewhere further back, save options have been done so many times, that new focus or some elimination of these things can be progress, while others think they like the old system better. I have played Eve-online where death can be pretty tough, and that is part of the charm. It is part of game design. I have played WoW, where death means just DT. Some DT is worse than others, some are downright so detrimental to the gaming experience that the gameplay suffers too greatly from it. For Eve-online it was part of the charm. I assume that removing this part of resource gathering, means more focus and challenges somewhere else. Maybe in time you will too, if the game succeeds in doing well with these game design decisions. Maybe it will be part of the charm of Bio-Shock, and something that will be copied, since medikits/ammo looting/DT is really not all that great ideas. You think? I am not sure if not dying at all, would be a good streamlining. There needs to be some indicator of failure, when you do. However, I do not think DT is a good measure of consequence for not winning a battle. Not winning is the main punishment. | ||
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