EPTNFL Season 2010 - Page 23
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
Interesting point about the 5.5 though. I think the biggest display of Vick would be his third-down stats, but I doubt they were that good (otherwise they would have won more). The big question (at least, personally) was never whether he would become a good passer, but whether he'd be able to be "good enough" to convert 3rd and 5s at a decent clip. | ||
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decafchicken
United States20108 Posts
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Dknight
United States5223 Posts
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ChezGod
United States590 Posts
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eshlow
United States5210 Posts
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SweeTLemonS[TPR]
11739 Posts
On September 14 2010 08:39 lewik wrote: If anyone wants to witness the effect that a GOOD scrambling QB can have on a game... keep an eye on Vince Young over the next couple years. He'll likely nab a NFL MVP or two before he's done. Here we have a Tennessee Titans fan, apparently. | ||
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tonight
United States11130 Posts
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tonight
United States11130 Posts
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SweeTLemonS[TPR]
11739 Posts
On September 14 2010 11:08 Southlight wrote: Brad Johnson, early Tom Brady, and first few seasons Big Ben were all not very impressive, I think? They were all generally caretaker QBs that made a few big plays to keep the chains moving and mostly handed the ball off or rode the coattails of splendid defensive systems. It's been comparatively recent that it's become an absolute necessity to have a stud QB to win. You could even say that Eli Manning wasn't that great when he won the SB. Now, were they utterly trash? No. But I feel like they were medium-tier, and I felt like Vick with his impact on games was a bit above that, if nothing else because he forced gameplan changes. He, too, was able to make big plays. Interesting point about the 5.5 though. I think the biggest display of Vick would be his third-down stats, but I doubt they were that good (otherwise they would have won more). The big question (at least, personally) was never whether he would become a good passer, but whether he'd be able to be "good enough" to convert 3rd and 5s at a decent clip. Firstly, thanks to Aquafresh for bringing that up. I probably would have forgotten. Tom Brady was Captain Comeback even in his first year. His stats weren't outlandish in his first year, but his fourth quarter comebacks were already getting a lot of attention. He drove the team for a game winning drive in the Super Bowl to beat the might Rams... granted, it rested on the leg of the kicker to put the nail in the coffin, but he still had to make the plays. It was clear from the start that the guy had ice in his veins. As for Ben, there is still a group of people (of which I am a part of), that think Ben is a huge pile of shit. Not only as a person (that's become obvious recently, imo), but also as a QB. He struggles with presnap reads, he struggles in reads in general, he struggles getting past his first read in less than seven seconds, all which cause him to hold on to the ball way too damn long. Ben is more a product of his unusual size for a QB than he is of pure skill. On September 14 2010 11:43 tonight wrote: and now it appears the Chiefs are going to be using Thomas Jones, fuck. Time to hit the wire. Yo, I hear you on that. People at work were all like "you took SJax with Greene still on the board?" And I was all like "LT's gonna steal mad carries from him this year," more recently I said, "LT will be the starting HB by midseason at the latest." Looks like, so far, I'm right. Greene can't catch either; and if the first game is any indication of things to come, they're going to need a HB that can catch and make plays, because, apparently, they aren't going to ever throw down field. And wtf was that last play about? How do you not stretch the ball past the sticks? I seriously laughed for a good thirty seconds or so. | ||
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
On September 14 2010 11:43 tonight wrote: and now it appears the Chiefs are going to be using Thomas Jones, fuck. Time to hit the wire. I wouldn't worry about it too much... probably just trying to wear down the defense so Charles can go nuts. At least I hope they're not that dumb. I need 36 points between Phillip Rivers and Jamaal Charles, including the points they've scored already. I think they can do it... if they give the ball to Charles. >.> | ||
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AmishNukes
United States98 Posts
On September 14 2010 11:36 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote: Here we have a Tennessee Titans fan, apparently. Probably a Titans fan, but also probably a bit true. Vince Young has looked like an absolute stud in quite a few games. His passing is only improving. I imagine he'll at least be on the short list for MVP during a season or two before he retires. Edit: I assume his original comment was related to the Michael Vick performance week one, which was quite spectacular. | ||
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Augury
United States758 Posts
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
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SweeTLemonS[TPR]
11739 Posts
On September 14 2010 11:51 jimmydic wrote: Probably a Titans fan, but also probably a bit true. Vince Young has looked like an absolute stud in quite a few games. His passing is only improving. I imagine he'll at least be on the short list for MVP during a season or two before he retires. Edit: I assume his original comment was related to the Michael Vick performance week one, which was quite spectacular. He may end up there, and yeah it was. VY is finally improving, it's terrible to watch. : [ I don't like the Titans. | ||
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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
I have Arian Foster (Houston HB) on my Fantasy team and I had him on the bench for the Indy game!!!! DAMN IT, he raked in 41 points -_-. Wish I would have put him up instead of Frank Gore, he got me 6 points lol. I try to justify it in my head by telling myself that I did the right thing and I just wanted to get a feel for how he does. If this is his only big game or he gets injured I will kill someone. | ||
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Aquafresh
United States824 Posts
On September 14 2010 11:08 Southlight wrote: Brad Johnson, early Tom Brady, and first few seasons Big Ben were all not very impressive, I think? They were all generally caretaker QBs that made a few big plays to keep the chains moving and mostly handed the ball off or rode the coattails of splendid defensive systems. It's been comparatively recent that it's become an absolute necessity to have a stud QB to win. You could even say that Eli Manning wasn't that great when he won the SB. Now, were they utterly trash? No. But I feel like they were medium-tier, and I felt like Vick with his impact on games was a bit above that, if nothing else because he forced gameplan changes. He, too, was able to make big plays. Interesting point about the 5.5 though. I think the biggest display of Vick would be his third-down stats, but I doubt they were that good (otherwise they would have won more). The big question (at least, personally) was never whether he would become a good passer, but whether he'd be able to be "good enough" to convert 3rd and 5s at a decent clip. Well Brady and Big Ben both had better years than Vick ever had in those first few seasons. Brady did very well considering he had Antwain Smith as his running back, and Givens, Patton and Brown as his top receivers, and the (at the time) lowest ranked defense to win a superbowl. Interestingly Peyton Manning broke that record when the 2006 Colts won with an even lower ranked defense. He was not as great as he would eventually become, but he was very good. Big Ben didn't throw much, but when he did he was very effective. Insane yards per attempt, (QB stat most correlated with winning BY FAR) and had an unreal 3rd down conversion rate. Simply put, these teams probably would not have won with lesser passers. Brad Johnson fucking sucked though, but Tampa had one of the most dominant defenses of all time that year, so he's another outlier. As for stud QBs? here is a list of the superbowl winning QBs since 1980, the last year the passing rules were significantly changed. + Show Spoiler + Plunkett(2)-Horribly underrated Montanna(4) Theissman-Top passer before the LT incident McMahon-Briefly considered a top passer before injuries Simms-Was competent, and had an insane playoff run Williams-Played for Gibbs behind one of the best running games and OL ever Hostetler-Defensive upset + wins against the Bills only count for half Rypien-Gibbs again Aikman(3) Young Favre Elway(2) Warner Dilfer-Dominant defense Brady(3) Johnson-Also dominant defense Roethlisberger(2) P.Manning E.Manning-While kinda bad, played out his mind up until the superbowl, which was probably the greatest upset in NFL history Brees You have always needed a competent passer to compete. Mobile QBs that can extend plays like Elway and Big Ben will do too, but they need to be consistent and effective. These days most teams opt for pure pocket passers, as that style has become more and more effective in the modern NFL, but you always needed either a strong passer or an unbeatable defense (or both) to win a championship. Even the Gibbs teams which didn't have an historic defense or particularly effective passers, were just plain good all around and were brilliantly coached. As for Vick? He certainly was extremely talented, but he was never more than a faster Kordell Stewart as far as his effectiveness was concerned. Perhaps he could have developed into a force on a team that built a truly unique playstyle around him, but I doubt it. I don't care how good your running game is, you can't rely on it for consistent 8 or 9 yard gains on 3rd down situations to keep your offense moving. Even the highest ypc runners of all time pale in comparison to the average yardage you will get from the crappiest of QBs. You need a certain baseline competence as a passer to succeed in the NFL, and his just never clicked. | ||
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Musoeun
United States4324 Posts
Raiders - still incompetent. Broncos - still starting Orton at QB (actually I like Orton), lost to Jacksonville (okay, Jax is decent). Chargers - currently losing to KC. I'm thoroughly confused. And if that was Moss/Wayne/whoever, that KC defender totally would have been called for a late hit - and he should have been. | ||
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SweeTLemonS[TPR]
11739 Posts
The only thing I disagree on is that the Steelers wouldn't have won that first Super Bowl with a different QB... they won in spite of Ben the first time around, not because of him. Plus the refs gifted them that game. | ||
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tonight
United States11130 Posts
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