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On September 02 2010 03:57 Tooplark wrote:
Tanks are so good in part because there aren't any really good sustained damage casters.
Except Amumu who's a tank.
Vlad's really the closest: a caster who has low burst damage but gradual damage over time, natural bulkiness, an escape tool... but he still loses to tanks.
Vlad is just generally atrocious late game it seems.
Kassadin is the only good sustained damage caster IMO because he can live long enough to keep cycling through all his CDs.
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On September 02 2010 03:57 Tooplark wrote:
Tanks are so good in part because there aren't any really good sustained damage casters.
Except Amumu who's a tank.
Vlad's really the closest: a caster who has low burst damage but gradual damage over time, natural bulkiness, an escape tool... but he still loses to tanks.
AP kogmaw.
Woot lol im a tank
God I am so gonna miss being a goliath...
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I have to ask how you guys deal with auto attacking opponents. I'm not all that good at the game (read mid high elo, lol) so I have only one time in over 200 games laned against someone who last hit.
Inevitably they push the creep wave to the tower, and while I've gotten pretty practiced on stealing last hits from the tower they get in a few hits on the tower every time. This leads to the tower slowly dying inches at a time until either I win the lane by killing them and counter pushing hard or I have to b or I die and the tower goes down because the creeps are already on top of it.
I find I have to use some pushing skill like volley or dark matter to try to keep the lane even. Is there some pro strat to punishing them for pushing the lane so hard? Sometime it nets me a kill because they are so far from their tower, but they aren't always that dumb (despite auto attacking minions constantly)
I am talking about mid of course, in a dual lane your buddy invariably whacks on creeps to his hearts content.
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Void staff is almost useless vs anything but tanks because of how the penetration is calculated.
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Either way late-game when you're fighting MR the 40% tends to trump stuff like Zhonya/Archangel that only give you 100; taking off 40% (remember that's essentially 40AP against someone with 100MR) is a pretty big deal. That means you only need like 200MR for VS's MPen to count as much as a NLR, which gives as much AP as the majority of top-end AP items.
Er...How is 40% Mpen against 100mr essentially 40AP?
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On September 02 2010 04:01 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2010 03:57 Tooplark wrote:
Tanks are so good in part because there aren't any really good sustained damage casters.
Except Amumu who's a tank.
Vlad's really the closest: a caster who has low burst damage but gradual damage over time, natural bulkiness, an escape tool... but he still loses to tanks. Vlad is just generally atrocious late game it seems. Kassadin is the only good sustained damage caster IMO because he can live long enough to keep cycling through all his CDs. AP pantheon? mogwai's new main inc.
On September 01 2010 23:40 myopia wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2010 15:45 redtooth wrote:
laning a utility kat vs Elementz kennen without masteries is no fun (because she's not utility kat...).
Last time I took Kennen up against a Kat, I lost mid. All she had to do was hang back and BB and I felt like I couldn't do anything. How did Elementz run Kennen mid? well i play a semi-gimmicky katarina where i rely on over-the-top movespeed at level 1 to dominate mid. that also leaves me with 400 hp so basically any hero can zone me. i make up for it by just shifting to their side of the lane and taking advantage of the double bushes since they can't reasonably catch up to me.
the problem was, i didn't have that extra movespeed or EXP boost since my masteries didn't load. thus i was essentially a 400 hp katarina with nothing really going for her.
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On September 02 2010 04:06 APurpleCow wrote:Show nested quote +Either way late-game when you're fighting MR the 40% tends to trump stuff like Zhonya/Archangel that only give you 100; taking off 40% (remember that's essentially 40AP against someone with 100MR) is a pretty big deal. That means you only need like 200MR for VS's MPen to count as much as a NLR, which gives as much AP as the majority of top-end AP items. Er...How is 40% Mpen against 100mr essentially 40AP?
I edited in that it assumes you also have 100 AP :p
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8748 Posts
On September 02 2010 04:10 Southlight wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2010 04:06 APurpleCow wrote:Either way late-game when you're fighting MR the 40% tends to trump stuff like Zhonya/Archangel that only give you 100; taking off 40% (remember that's essentially 40AP against someone with 100MR) is a pretty big deal. That means you only need like 200MR for VS's MPen to count as much as a NLR, which gives as much AP as the majority of top-end AP items. Er...How is 40% Mpen against 100mr essentially 40AP? I edited in that it assumes you also have 100 AP :p
That still doesn't seem correct at all... You could probably say something like "it's always at least as effective as 40ap against someone with 100+ MR" but there isn't really any direct calculation to make since the base damage and AP ratios of abilities make it screwy
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On September 02 2010 04:10 Southlight wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2010 04:06 APurpleCow wrote:Either way late-game when you're fighting MR the 40% tends to trump stuff like Zhonya/Archangel that only give you 100; taking off 40% (remember that's essentially 40AP against someone with 100MR) is a pretty big deal. That means you only need like 200MR for VS's MPen to count as much as a NLR, which gives as much AP as the majority of top-end AP items. Er...How is 40% Mpen against 100mr essentially 40AP? I edited in that it assumes you also have 100 AP :p
60MR is 37.5% reduction, 100MR is 50%. With an ability dealing 300 damage and with a 1.0 AP ratio, 40 AP gives 170 damage, 40% mpen is 187. Take into account sorc shoes and 40 AP is 188.9 damage, 40% Mpen is 229.
40% mpen is even better.
On September 02 2010 04:01 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2010 03:57 Tooplark wrote:
Tanks are so good in part because there aren't any really good sustained damage casters.
Except Amumu who's a tank.
Vlad's really the closest: a caster who has low burst damage but gradual damage over time, natural bulkiness, an escape tool... but he still loses to tanks. Vlad is just generally atrocious late game it seems. Kassadin is the only good sustained damage caster IMO because he can live long enough to keep cycling through all his CDs.
WHAT? Vlad's great late game. R+Q+E --> W --> Q+E deals some pretty crazy damage, and the slow of W+Rylai's can completely ruin enemy positioning. Since you have like 4k health and since you are invulnerable for the first 2.5 seconds of a fight (4.5 with Zhonya's), you're not a viable target at all even if you build almost entirely AP.
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Does spell pen work on any ability that doesn't proc armor pen? Including or excluding spells that deal physical damage?
Referencing Panth mostly.
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Pantheon's Q and E use Armor Penetration
Pantheon's W and R use Magic Penetration
Last Whisper is just a special case because... well, more or less because 40% armor pen vs. towers was imba and they fixed it in a lazy way.
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On September 02 2010 04:15 APurpleCow wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2010 04:10 Southlight wrote:On September 02 2010 04:06 APurpleCow wrote:Either way late-game when you're fighting MR the 40% tends to trump stuff like Zhonya/Archangel that only give you 100; taking off 40% (remember that's essentially 40AP against someone with 100MR) is a pretty big deal. That means you only need like 200MR for VS's MPen to count as much as a NLR, which gives as much AP as the majority of top-end AP items. Er...How is 40% Mpen against 100mr essentially 40AP? I edited in that it assumes you also have 100 AP :p 60MR is 37.5% reduction, 100MR is 50%. With an ability dealing 300 damage and with a 1.0 AP ratio, 40 AP gives 170 damage, 40% mpen is 187. Take into account sorc shoes and 40 AP is 188.9 damage, 40% Mpen is 229. 40% mpen is even better.
mmkay my 3 second math/guesstimation was inaccurate, oh well.
So there you have it, 40% mpen is even better than my "optimistic" guesstimation.
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Malzahar is also a sustained damage caster, since his damage is almost exclusively from DoTs. I would also say Karthus is, as he can spam Lay Waste and Defile until he OOMs.
Malz isn't awful if you build him something like RoA + Rylai's as he gets a decent health pool that way.
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he still goes down in nothing flat. The reason Kassadin is good is because both his nukes disable and he has built in flash on a 5 second CD.
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yeah i dont even play annie anymore lolol.
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So, Janna feels kinda fun to play, as expected. Should I troll with random items every game or are there a few items I really should build towards? What item should I start with? And god, I feel OOM all the time. Guess I'll replace the CDR glyphs with MP5L, additionally to the MP5L seals.
I suck with flash. I totally want it to show me a cast range circle and wait for my click to cast it. But I figured flash would be a good idea on Janna to position properly for her ult.
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On September 02 2010 04:53 spinesheath wrote:
So, Janna feels kinda fun to play, as expected. Should I troll with random items every game or are there a few items I really should build towards? What item should I start with? And god, I feel OOM all the time. Guess I'll replace the CDR glyphs with MP5L, additionally to the MP5L seals. boots, dorans dorans dorans dorans dorans
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On September 02 2010 04:56 redtooth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2010 04:53 spinesheath wrote:
So, Janna feels kinda fun to play, as expected. Should I troll with random items every game or are there a few items I really should build towards? What item should I start with? And god, I feel OOM all the time. Guess I'll replace the CDR glyphs with MP5L, additionally to the MP5L seals. boots, dorans dorans dorans dorans dorans
Sounds simple enough. I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume it's not the Shield or Blade you are referring to.
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On September 02 2010 04:57 Shikyo wrote:
Veigar > Kassadin though
according to elementz tier list, yep.
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EPT
