• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 08:49
CEST 14:49
KST 21:49
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play1Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview8
Community News
[TLMC] Summer 2026 Ladder Map Rotation05.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start)75ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo31Weekly Cups (June 8-14): Clem and Solar double, PTR tested0RSL: S6 Finals played at BlizzCon 202611
StarCraft 2
General
Daily SC2 Player Grid - feedback wanted Is the larve respawn broken? 5.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start) The Death of Cheese: From a Professional Cheeser Mizenhauer's Douyu Cup Preview
Tourneys
Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28) Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event INu's Battles#17 <BO.9> Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 531 Experimental Artillery Mutation # 530 One For All Mutation # 529 Opportunities Unleashed
Brood War
General
ASL 22 Proposed Map Pool Quality of life changes in BW that you will like ? Farewell Beloved Starcraft (Youtube Videos) BW General Discussion vespene.gg — BW replays in browser
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Grand Finals The Casual Games of the Week Thread [BSL22] GosuLeague Casts - Tue & Thu 22:00 CEST
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies Why doesn't anyone use restoration?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Canadian Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club! The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Listen To The Coaches!
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8726 users

League of Legends [New forum, check OP!] - Page 788

Forum Index > General Games
Post a Reply
Prev 1 786 787 788 789 790 1431 Next
STS17
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1817 Posts
September 01 2010 17:10 GMT
#15741
On September 02 2010 01:55 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2010 01:48 STS17 wrote:
Dumbest thing I've ever seen:

Twitch stealths near your mid (who is too dumb to buy an oracles, despite laning against twitch. Shen ults to Twitch, which has no display animation on Twitch since he's stealthed. Next thing you know shen appears standing on our mid and mid is taunted. Twitch hits R and we lose mid and a tower.

lol come on that's pretty cute :D


I thought so too, I was initially like "hey that's pretty clever" but then it happened 6 times to the same guy...
Platinum Level Terran - Take my advice from that perspective
spinesheath
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany8679 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-01 17:18:27
September 01 2010 17:17 GMT
#15742
On September 02 2010 01:48 STS17 wrote:
Dumbest thing I've ever seen:

Twitch stealths near your mid (who is too dumb to buy an oracles, despite laning against twitch. Shen ults to Twitch, which has no display animation on Twitch since he's stealthed. Next thing you know shen appears standing on our mid and mid is taunted. Twitch hits R and we lose mid and a tower.

Heimerdinger should not be the one who has to buy oracles for a team with three tanks on it...

So it seems like you, Heimer, were not mid. So even if you bought Oracles, mid would not have seen this coming (unless you have a secret oracle range hax). Dunno who was mid, but I guess that it was a rather squishy champ, maybe a carry, so buying oracles is not favorable ("focus me pls"). I would maybe drop a vision ward every now and then instead.

Cool combo regardless
If you have a good reason to disagree with the above, please tell me. Thank you.
Phrost
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States4008 Posts
September 01 2010 17:28 GMT
#15743
On September 02 2010 01:57 H wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2010 01:56 Phrost wrote:
On September 02 2010 01:55 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
On September 02 2010 01:48 STS17 wrote:
Dumbest thing I've ever seen:

Twitch stealths near your mid (who is too dumb to buy an oracles, despite laning against twitch. Shen ults to Twitch, which has no display animation on Twitch since he's stealthed. Next thing you know shen appears standing on our mid and mid is taunted. Twitch hits R and we lose mid and a tower.

lol come on that's pretty cute :D



Mandrop with Pantheon + Shen is more fun


Oh shit, thanks for the idea.


If you last stand right as pantheon goes into the air then shen lands before pantheon and can taunt people into pantheons ult lolololol
iamphrost.tumblr.com // http://howtobebettermagicplayer.tumblr.com // twitter @phrost_
STS17
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1817 Posts
September 01 2010 17:32 GMT
#15744
On September 02 2010 02:17 spinesheath wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2010 01:48 STS17 wrote:
Dumbest thing I've ever seen:

Twitch stealths near your mid (who is too dumb to buy an oracles, despite laning against twitch. Shen ults to Twitch, which has no display animation on Twitch since he's stealthed. Next thing you know shen appears standing on our mid and mid is taunted. Twitch hits R and we lose mid and a tower.

Heimerdinger should not be the one who has to buy oracles for a team with three tanks on it...

So it seems like you, Heimer, were not mid. So even if you bought Oracles, mid would not have seen this coming (unless you have a secret oracle range hax). Dunno who was mid, but I guess that it was a rather squishy champ, maybe a carry, so buying oracles is not favorable ("focus me pls"). I would maybe drop a vision ward every now and then instead.

Cool combo regardless


That's correct, our Morde was mid by his request. I laned with my friend who was playing malz and we had garen/taric bottom.

And yes I have secret oracle range hax, they make it so the towers on my team reveal enemy stealth characters. Mwahahahahahaha!
Platinum Level Terran - Take my advice from that perspective
BlackHat
Profile Joined April 2010
United States264 Posts
September 01 2010 17:49 GMT
#15745
On September 01 2010 16:45 barbsq wrote:
shaco stuff.


Thanks for elaborating for him. I told him what you said, I don't think he was attempting ganks when he should have. A little practice and I'm sure he'll get it down.
Borsalino for life.
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
September 01 2010 17:50 GMT
#15746
One time my team killed 3 opponents without losing anyone. We went for Baron. Shen ults onto Shaco right before he decieves into the Baron cave. Shaco clones and we're 5 vs. Shaco with GA and clone and Shen with GA. We got fucking raped in the ass... Aced, immediate surrender followed, lol, it was the most demoralizing 10 seconds of LoL I ever experienced, lol. I should note this was back before any Shaco nerfs and when Shen's W read "invulnerable to all damage for 1.5 seconds."
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
STS17
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1817 Posts
September 01 2010 17:55 GMT
#15747
On September 02 2010 02:50 Mogwai wrote:
One time my team killed 3 opponents without losing anyone. We went for Baron. Shen ults onto Shaco right before he decieves into the Baron cave. Shaco clones and we're 5 vs. Shaco with GA and clone and Shen with GA. We got fucking raped in the ass... Aced, immediate surrender followed, lol, it was the most demoralizing 10 seconds of LoL I ever experienced, lol. I should note this was back before any Shaco nerfs and when Shen's W read "invulnerable to all damage for 1.5 seconds."


That's depressing. Quick! Make a post about it and get shaco and shen nerfed for their obvious OPness!
Platinum Level Terran - Take my advice from that perspective
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
September 01 2010 18:15 GMT
#15748
question. how big of a deal do you guys think it would be if Void Staff were removed from the game?

different but somewhat related question. how big of a deal do you think it would be if Last Whisper's penetration affected abilities like Ashe's Volley and Pantheon's Spear Shot?
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
Chrispy
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada5878 Posts
September 01 2010 18:17 GMT
#15749
^^ Or Gangplanks Parrrley. Oh my god that would revolutionary. Insta top tier. Hahah.
Retvrn to Forvms
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-01 18:20:47
September 01 2010 18:18 GMT
#15750
to the best of my knowledge, it does work on Gangplank's Parley because it triggers the same way an on-hit effect would trigger which do work with Parley -_-

EDIT: and for whatever it's worth, I don't think % penetration effects on burst abilities is very important anymore since the penetration changes and that's the point I'm trying to make, but I'm happy to hear some dissent.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
Southlight
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States11768 Posts
September 01 2010 18:21 GMT
#15751
On September 02 2010 03:15 Mogwai wrote:
question. how big of a deal do you guys think it would be if Void Staff were removed from the game?

different but somewhat related question. how big of a deal do you think it would be if Last Whisper's penetration affected abilities like Ashe's Volley and Pantheon's Spear Shot?


Considering Void Staff (late-game) is the most cost-effective AP damage item in the game, it'd be pretty brutal to every nuker.
oraoraoraoraoraoraoraora
Chrispy
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada5878 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-01 18:23:50
September 01 2010 18:21 GMT
#15752
Wat. Pmgs he's top tier then, just waiting to be discovered.

Ok maybe not but I will have to check this out someday because that seems really good.

EDIT: What exactly were the changes to armour penetration? I remember hearing a lot about it before...
Retvrn to Forvms
mrgerry
Profile Joined September 2008
United States1508 Posts
September 01 2010 18:22 GMT
#15753
Last Whisper works on Parrley
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
September 01 2010 18:28 GMT
#15754
On September 02 2010 03:21 Chrispy wrote:
Wat. Pmgs he's top tier then, just waiting to be discovered.

Ok maybe not but I will have to check this out someday because that seems really good.

EDIT: What exactly were the changes to armour penetration? I remember hearing a lot about it before...

% penetration used to apply before flat penetration.

USED TO BE:
1st: armor reduction
2nd: % penetration
3rd: flat penetration

NOW:
1st: armor reduction
2nd: flat penetration
3rd: % penetration
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
HeavOnEarth
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States7087 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-01 18:43:57
September 01 2010 18:42 GMT
#15755
On September 02 2010 03:17 Chrispy wrote:
^^ Or Gangplanks Parrrley. Oh my god that would revolutionary. Insta top tier. Hahah.

works on parley, ezreals q, etc. physical abilties = physical proc attacks
so lifesteal , madreds, lizard etc all proc
parley can also crit AND proc madreds
so u can end up doin 2k+ dmg to a creep lulz.
same with ezreal.
"come korea next time... FXO house... 10 korean, 10 korean"
jtbem
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada1404 Posts
September 01 2010 18:44 GMT
#15756
every time i play LoL i want to choke someone...1400-1100 in 2 weeks...fuck solo q fuck!
aka Sowelulol
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
September 01 2010 18:44 GMT
#15757
On September 02 2010 03:21 Southlight wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2010 03:15 Mogwai wrote:
question. how big of a deal do you guys think it would be if Void Staff were removed from the game?

different but somewhat related question. how big of a deal do you think it would be if Last Whisper's penetration affected abilities like Ashe's Volley and Pantheon's Spear Shot?


Considering Void Staff (late-game) is the most cost-effective AP damage item in the game, it'd be pretty brutal to every nuker.

how much of this is due to it also providing 70 AP? like, let's say that it were more analogous to Last Whisper and instead of being 70 AP and 40% penetration, it was 20 AP, 15% CDR, and 40% penetration at a slightly lower price tag (say, 1900ish) would it still be a giant deal?

I guess I'm getting into pretty stupid hypotheticals, but I just have been arguing with some guy who thinks that Pantheon's main issue is the lack of a % based armor penetration to counter armor stacking, which I just don't see as a particularly big issue. But I pretty much just don't play mages so it's hard for me to understand the importance of the stats on Void Staff and as a Tank I pretty much don't even notice Void Staffs cutting into my 200-240 MR because it's still just a burst that I can usually waltz out of without being too sad (especially since it means they didn't point said burst at a squishier hero on my team).
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
Southlight
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States11768 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-01 19:04:56
September 01 2010 18:53 GMT
#15758
On September 02 2010 03:44 Mogwai wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 02 2010 03:21 Southlight wrote:
On September 02 2010 03:15 Mogwai wrote:
question. how big of a deal do you guys think it would be if Void Staff were removed from the game?

different but somewhat related question. how big of a deal do you think it would be if Last Whisper's penetration affected abilities like Ashe's Volley and Pantheon's Spear Shot?


Considering Void Staff (late-game) is the most cost-effective AP damage item in the game, it'd be pretty brutal to every nuker.

how much of this is due to it also providing 70 AP? like, let's say that it were more analogous to Last Whisper and instead of being 70 AP and 40% penetration, it was 20 AP, 15% CDR, and 40% penetration at a slightly lower price tag (say, 1900ish) would it still be a giant deal?

I guess I'm getting into pretty stupid hypotheticals, but I just have been arguing with some guy who thinks that Pantheon's main issue is the lack of a % based armor penetration to counter armor stacking, which I just don't see as a particularly big issue. But I pretty much just don't play mages so it's hard for me to understand the importance of the stats on Void Staff and as a Tank I pretty much don't even notice Void Staffs cutting into my 200-240 MR because it's still just a burst that I can usually waltz out of without being too sad (especially since it means they didn't point said burst at a squishier hero on my team).


The AP gain via VS itself depends on the stage of the game and how much AP the guy already has compared to how much MR he's chopping off. A guy starting with 500 AP against someone with 300 MR will make VS the most cost-efficient AP item late-game regardless of how much AP the item actually gives. On the other hand a 150 AP character chopping off 40% from someone with 150 MR will benefit more from the 70>20AP the VS itself gives.

Either way late-game when you're fighting MR the 40% tends to trump stuff like Zhonya/Archangel that only give you 100; taking off 40% (remember that's essentially 40AP against someone with 100MR) is a pretty big deal. That means you only need like 200MR for VS's MPen to count as much as a NLR, which gives as much AP as the majority of top-end AP items (that's assuming you have 100 AP not counting VS).

(edited for maths)

Edit:
To add, considering that the majority of AP items give in the neighborhood of 80 AP (thus that being the magical number for an item's efficiency), void Staff costs just over 2k and gives a whopping 70 AP. That means if the target has 100 MR (easy threshold to reach) and you have a total of 100 including VS you get like 110 AP from VS. But most people will get VS late... so we're talking if you have like 200-300 AP and someone has 100 MR you're getting a pretty ridiculous amount of extra damage. Very underappreciated item ;p
oraoraoraoraoraoraoraora
STS17
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1817 Posts
September 01 2010 18:53 GMT
#15759
On September 02 2010 03:15 Mogwai wrote:
question. how big of a deal do you guys think it would be if Void Staff were removed from the game?

different but somewhat related question. how big of a deal do you think it would be if Last Whisper's penetration affected abilities like Ashe's Volley and Pantheon's Spear Shot?


I think it would be pretty meh. I don't get either that often because I've found the flat penetration items to be sufficient and generally offer greater utility.

Thing is, I feel it really depends on the champion you are dealing with, for example anyone useing last whisper must either be an Auto attack based champion or have a physical damage dealing ability which applies on-hit effects (I believe there are only three which currently do this).

Super-ultra-mega late game however, the items are invaluable on champions that can benefit from them.

If you ask me, the items should be redesigned, to increase your ArPen/MPen by 40% instead of reducing their armor/mr by 40%. While this would technically be a nerf to their effectiveness, if they did this + allowed penetration to enter the negatives, it would amplify the need for characters to build survivability while still allowing tanks to be tanks and dps to be dps.
Platinum Level Terran - Take my advice from that perspective
Tooplark
Profile Joined October 2008
United States3977 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-01 18:58:54
September 01 2010 18:57 GMT
#15760
Tanks are so good in part because there aren't any really good sustained damage casters.

Except Amumu who's a tank.
Vlad's really the closest: a caster who has low burst damage but gradual damage over time, natural bulkiness, an escape tool... but he still loses to tanks.
WHAT POW'R ART THOU WHO FROM BELOW HAST MADE ME RISE UNWILLINGLY AND SLOW
Prev 1 786 787 788 789 790 1431 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Maestros of the Game
12:30
Offline Playoffs
herO vs Classic
Maru vs Serral
WardiTV1046
RotterdaM995
ComeBackTV 885
Ryung 829
IntoTheiNu 377
TaKeTV 308
SteadfastSC209
IndyStarCraft 90
EnkiAlexander 52
SHIN 39
BRAT_OK 36
CosmosSc2 14
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 995
Ryung 829
SteadfastSC 209
Rex 117
IndyStarCraft 90
SHIN 39
BRAT_OK 36
CosmosSc2 14
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 45331
Horang2 1579
Jaedong 1104
EffOrt 1092
Leta 701
BeSt 676
ggaemo 285
Sharp 93
Mong 86
Aegong 61
[ Show more ]
Mind 58
Movie 57
Hyun 55
sSak 35
sorry 35
Hm[arnc] 28
JYJ 17
Sacsri 16
GoRush 13
Icarus 6
Dota 2
XcaliburYe240
syndereN194
LuMiX0
Counter-Strike
kennyS1656
pashabiceps1073
kRYSTAL_90
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor259
Other Games
singsing2156
B2W.Neo1473
Lowko578
XaKoH 404
crisheroes328
Pyrionflax299
byalli296
Hui .207
DeMusliM205
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream8898
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 14
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Michael_bg 4
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos3485
Upcoming Events
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
1h 11m
Bonyth vs TerrOr
eOnzErG vs Dewalt
XuanXuan vs TBD
Douyu Cup 2020
16h 11m
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
1d 1h
Mihu vs TBD
Online Event
1d 2h
RSL Revival
1d 13h
WardiTV Weekly
1d 22h
RSL Revival
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Bombastic Starleague
3 days
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
[ Show More ]
OSC
4 days
CrankTV Team League
4 days
Bombastic Starleague
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
5 days
HomeStory Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
HomeStory Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 21: Qualifier 1
WardiTV Spring 2026
Heroes Pulsing #2

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
YSL S3
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSL Season 21: Qualifier 2
SCTL 2026 Spring
Douyu Cup 2026
Maestros of the Game 2
Murky Cup 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026

Upcoming

CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
BCC 2026
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E1
Heroes Pulsing #3
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.