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HeavOnEarth
United States7087 Posts
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shawster
Canada2485 Posts
On August 18 2010 13:56 Kultcher wrote: Hey do any higher ELO players have any more general advice for, I don't know, not sucking? Not so much champ or build or skill order recommendations, but just like, how best to survive and be effective in teamfights or something. The problem is, I feel like I'm theoretically a strong player. I'm good at video games in general. I know most of the basic good practices of LoL: last hitting (and last hitting only in laning when appropriate), minimap awareness, watching/calling MIAs even in other lanes sometimes. I know to avoid tanks and focus squishes in teamfights. I know good builds for most of the champs I play and proper skill orders. I just feel like I have no control in games. Either my team is way better and I get a good score mostly just by virtue of being there or my team gets roflstomped and I feel like I can't do anything. Even when I'm playing a tank I feel like I die so quickly sometimes, whereas most enemy tanks are just fucking unkillable. 90% of my deaths come from teamfights or occasional tower dives - I rarely get ganked out of position. But I also rarely if ever get those, "omg I carried 15-2-x and my noob team still lost." I'm just not sure what else I'm missing, but I feel like I'm not really improving at all. Then again maybe I'm just being whiny, everyone has their losing streaks. But I'm like +30 in unranked and -7 or so in ranked and it's getting frustrating. I guess maybe to make this a little easier: what dumb mistakes do you guys see noob players making a lot, particularly in teamfights? Also, I lose every game where there's an Amumu on the other team. Coincidence? I'm starting to feel like he should be a ban if your team isn't planning on playing him. what level are you? you need a little bit of instinct to play this game, some decisions that are really important have to be decided in 0.05 seconds. usually if you play enough you'll know, knowing when to run/dive/which heroes to focus/how to juke/what skills to use/what to do is hard to explain | ||
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
On August 18 2010 15:09 shawster wrote: what level are you? you need a little bit of instinct to play this game, some decisions that are really important have to be decided in 0.05 seconds. usually if you play enough you'll know, knowing when to run/dive/which heroes to focus/how to juke/what skills to use/what to do is hard to explain He's playing ranked, so he would have to be 30, right? I dunno, this game doesn't seem that hard to me so far. Individually, you need to know the items really well, make good decisions, keep on top of your cooldowns and time the creeps... that's pretty much it. | ||
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HeavOnEarth
United States7087 Posts
hmm im gonna teamfight soon, so i should buy the best items for now. I need tankyness. Wat do i do with my 1.3k vs a caster team Oh i know! banshees!. -buys catalyst- BAD hmm im gonna teamfight soon, so i should buy the best items for now. I need tankyness. Wat do i do with my 1.3k vs a caster team -buys red pot+ negatron claok- GOOD oh wow i see all the other 5 people on the other team about to push mid oh wow i see top getting pushed -Heads to top- BAD oh wow i see all the other 5 people on the other team about to push mid oh wow i see top getting pushed -stay mid- OKAY oh wow i see all the other 5 people on the other team about to push mid oh wow i see top getting pushed -tell person with teleport or global ult to farm top- GOOD everyone is mia, but u see dragon is up -GO DO DRAGON- BAD everyone is mia but u see dragon is up -ward it- OKAY everyone is mia but u see dragon is up -ward the blue buff heading into dragon then do it- GOOD lol this is fun can i keep going? | ||
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Kultcher
United States150 Posts
On August 18 2010 15:09 shawster wrote: what level are you? you need a little bit of instinct to play this game, some decisions that are really important have to be decided in 0.05 seconds. usually if you play enough you'll know, knowing when to run/dive/which heroes to focus/how to juke/what skills to use/what to do is hard to explain I'm level 30. Around 450 games played in total. (183-155 unranked, 55-62 ranked). I feel like I usually do know what to do - I just have problems doing it, I guess. Teamfights in particular I feel like I always get focused down first, even if I'm playing a ranged character and standing at the back. Either I die or I spend most of my time trying to get away and can't really contribute much to the fight past the opening volley. On August 18 2010 15:18 HeavOnEarth wrote: lol this is fun can i keep going? By all means.  Actually, you mentioned buying red pot before teamfighting... this is something I've been meaning to ask for awhile: how often do you buy pots? Is there a "wrong time" to do so? There's a lot of time when I think about buying one but I'm like, "Nah it seems to early I should just save up for whatever item". Do you ever just forgo them completely? | ||
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HeavOnEarth
United States7087 Posts
i used to always fail forget to use my pots LOL | ||
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
haha, it's so bad. i mean he can do it, but razors delay your Guinsoo's and your hextech so hard. the nice thing is once you hit 6 with razors, you kill like 4/5 creeps in one hit. but yeah, first 3 levels are pretty rough assuming no golem | ||
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Southlight
United States11767 Posts
On August 18 2010 13:56 Kultcher wrote: Hey do any higher ELO players have any more general advice for, I don't know, not sucking? Not so much champ or build or skill order recommendations, but just like, how best to survive and be effective in teamfights or something. <snip> I just feel like I have no control in games. Either my team is way better and I get a good score mostly just by virtue of being there or my team gets roflstomped and I feel like I can't do anything. Even when I'm playing a tank I feel like I die so quickly sometimes, whereas most enemy tanks are just fucking unkillable. 90% of my deaths come from teamfights or occasional tower dives - I rarely get ganked out of position. But I also rarely if ever get those, "omg I carried 15-2-x and my noob team still lost." <snip> I guess maybe to make this a little easier: what dumb mistakes do you guys see noob players making a lot, particularly in teamfights? Also, I lose every game where there's an Amumu on the other team. Coincidence? I'm starting to feel like he should be a ban if your team isn't planning on playing him. My quote of HOE as as well as my ranting 3 posts that I linked-to at the end of the New Player FAQ in the OP are a decent start. Especially the concept of the red and blue streaks guestimating the various power levels of various heroes at various points in the game. I feel like imagining such a thing is very important to "taking advantage" of advantages and doing everything in your power to nullify disadvantages. How can you hide a 5-minute span where you're weak if you don't even realize you're weak, and how can you take advantage of a weak hero if you don't realize it? A good example from a recent game, personally, is while I was smurfing today, I was running Veigar (no heroes to play, so sue me) with a Blitz lanemate against Xin and Jax. It took two hooks (and one resulting death) for Blitz to realize what I meant by "don't hook them" - they simply had a stronger lane. However the amusing thing is that neither Xin nor Jax actually tried to kill me. Two proper players would have zoned the fuck out of us and taken complete control of the lane. Not these two scrubs. Instead I happily farmed for 15 minutes unimpeded because, well, they didn't do anything. This is particularly comical when considering that I was even proccing Jax' stun "for shits and giggles" to see if he'd try to kill me, and he never did. And of course they certainly weren't checking my mana pool to force me to keep enough mana for a stun. Rather, I went to 0 mana over and over again because I didn't have to care. FAIL. Instead I rushed a very fast DFG, and the next time I wandered back into lane, I baited Jax into attacking me when I was at 50% hp and simply insta-gibbed him with DFG + Q + R. Ding ding ding we have a winrar. As for a more in-depth reply, hmm. That's a difficult question given the complexity of this game (IMO) and how hard it is to be 'perfect.' There's always something better you could have done, or different that could have possibly affected the game and brought it in a different direction, and there's a lot of "little" things that happen that a lot of people don't even realize. The first thing I'll say is what a DotA player told me a long time ago - if you're behind, farm; if you're ahead, kill them. The latter is very important. Particularly at lower-skill games it's very important for you, if you're actually a better player, to be on the offensive, to be aggressive and consistently punish bad players for being bad. This obviously rules out a lot of heroes and forces you to play offensive heroes that can kill crap, run people down, etc. but you really don't have a choice. If you don't, the other team will, and you will lose. This more-or-less goes with my ranting about people QQing about how their team failed, so those appropriate posts will do. Beyond that is just split-second decision-making. It's amazing how many wrong decisions people make on a consistent basis, and that's why it's very important to be on the offense and force people to make bad decisions. That's why AoE heroes like Amumu, incidentally, tend to rock at lower levels - it forces people to either fight or flee, and invariably forces dumbasses to make bad decisions. Decisions include the small teamfight decisions like HOE's post above, or more subtle decisions like a build-order variance (also something he touched upon), or even things like where to fight, when, how you're positioned (like who's initiating), when you blow an ult, when you withdraw (I hate when people overpursue and die), who you target, who you disable, that sort of stuff. When it comes to doing "different" things I mean like, there've been games where I'm solo mid Kassadin vs an Ezreal and I'm pounding the Ezreal down... but one or two lanes are getting their butt kicked. Every time I gank I land kills, but at the same time it gives Ezreal time to catch up (farming > ganking). When the game ends in a loss, I'm always left wondering if I should have done more in the side lane ganks, exerting better map control etc. But a lot of people are stone-headed and simply think, "I lost because of my bad teammates, fuck match making!" If I had ganked more, would we have won? I don't know, it's hard to ever know, but it would have changed the game, possibly for the better, and for as long as you don't know you can't ever say you played the game out as best you can. And if you're really the better player, the onus is and will always be on you to do everything you can. It's a team game but individual skill stands out heavily. You just have to put yourself in the position (unfortunately this includes hero choice and really rules out a lot of heroes) to shine that way. It's not a coincidence that a lot of the top TL players have and still do often main heroes that display early-game prowess and have mobility and map control and the ability to run people down through their towers. | ||
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napp
United States18 Posts
On August 18 2010 16:35 Southlight wrote: My quote of HOE as as well as my ranting 3 posts that I linked-to at the end of the New Player FAQ in the OP are a decent start. Especially the concept of the red and blue streaks guestimating the various power levels of various heroes at various points in the game. I feel like imagining such a thing is very important to "taking advantage" of advantages and doing everything in your power to nullify disadvantages. How can you hide a 5-minute span where you're weak if you don't even realize you're weak, and how can you take advantage of a weak hero if you don't realize it? A good example from a recent game, personally, is while I was smurfing today, I was running Veigar (no heroes to play, so sue me) with a Blitz lanemate against Xin and Jax. It took two hooks (and one resulting death) for Blitz to realize what I meant by "don't hook them" - they simply had a stronger lane. However the amusing thing is that neither Xin nor Jax actually tried to kill me. Two proper players would have zoned the fuck out of us and taken complete control of the lane. Not these two scrubs. Instead I happily farmed for 15 minutes unimpeded because, well, they didn't do anything. This is particularly comical when considering that I was even proccing Jax' stun "for shits and giggles" to see if he'd try to kill me, and he never did. And of course they certainly weren't checking my mana pool to force me to keep enough mana for a stun. Rather, I went to 0 mana over and over again because I didn't have to care. FAIL. Instead I rushed a very fast DFG, and the next time I wandered back into lane, I baited Jax into attacking me when I was at 50% hp and simply insta-gibbed him with DFG + Q + R. Ding ding ding we have a winrar. haha random i check this thread and the last post is about a game i was in. | ||
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HeavOnEarth
United States7087 Posts
On August 18 2010 16:29 gtrsrs wrote: just tried jungle jax haha, it's so bad. i mean he can do it, but razors delay your Guinsoo's and your hextech so hard. the nice thing is once you hit 6 with razors, you kill like 4/5 creeps in one hit. but yeah, first 3 levels are pretty rough assuming no golem start at blue buff with defensive masteries dodge ylws, dodge quints are nice but not needed and counterstrike dont buy razors, its not needed jax is a pretty fast jungler, go straight into ninja tabi with ur cloth armor hes actually fairly decent, :O i think the best way for jax to play is lane until 4-6 then go straight jungle. obviously u need to lane with someone with huge staying power. | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
Also: spinesheath on EU, if you would be so kind as to add me. | ||
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
On August 18 2010 17:06 HeavOnEarth wrote: start at blue buff with defensive masteries dodge ylws, dodge quints are nice but not needed and counterstrike dont buy razors, its not needed jax is a pretty fast jungler, go straight into ninja tabi with ur cloth armor hes actually fairly decent, :O really? i didn't even bother to try but i assumed jax couldn't get blue from level 1 i'll have to try again in another normal game also runes are expensive, not gonna buy dodge runes just for jax lol :\ in other news, not gonna post a screenshot cause i hate when people do that, but i feel the need to brag about soloing mid in a ranked game as Xin, versus Kayle, completely doubling her creep count by end of the laning phase, and finishing the game 2-0-13 in 28 minutes ffffffffuck yeah SUCK IT RANGED MIDS 12 MINUTE SUNFIRE also of note was their highest ranked player, a 1500 vladimir, opened doran's shield, sorc shoes, into sunfire and guinsoo... wtf? i realize it's an efficient item and i suppose his spells are low enough CD to keep the stacks up... what do you guys make of it (besides that the attack speed is completely wasted) | ||
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HeavOnEarth
United States7087 Posts
On August 18 2010 17:18 gtrsrs wrote: really? i didn't even bother to try but i assumed jax couldn't get blue from level 1 i'll have to try again in another normal game also runes are expensive, not gonna buy dodge runes just for jax lol :\ in other news, not gonna post a screenshot cause i hate when people do that, but i feel the need to brag about soloing mid in a ranked game as Xin, versus Kayle, completely doubling her creep count by end of the laning phase, and finishing the game 2-0-13 in 28 minutes ffffffffuck yeah SUCK IT RANGED MIDS 12 MINUTE SUNFIRE also of note was their highest ranked player, a 1500 vladimir, opened doran's shield, sorc shoes, into sunfire and guinsoo... wtf? i realize it's an efficient item and i suppose his spells are low enough CD to keep the stacks up... what do you guys make of it (besides that the attack speed is completely wasted) | ||
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Kultcher
United States150 Posts
The game starts out with a double kill for enemy team on top and they proceed to push down our tower before the 4:00 minute mark. I just hit level 4 when I see that bottom tower just went down as well. I admit it was my bad not to be paying attention to bot but Teemo says, "You know the whole point of jungling is to gank right?" Meanwhile, Veigar and Akali are trading insults for pretty much the entire game. The weird thing is that we go from like 1-7 at the 8 minute mark and actually even it up 24-24 by the mid-game. We down two inhibitors and I seriously think that we're going to pull it off. We seem to have them reeling but then Akali just can't resist the urge to constantly hunt down their feeder Kog'maw and keeps getting picked off. They kill 4 of us and while Pantheon attempts to backdoor their inhibs painfully slowly, they tear through mid and kill our Nexus in like 10 seconds. That was my seventh lost game in a row. And I had almost reclaimed hope that any game could be salvaged, only to have it dashed. Of course I have to admit it was partially my fault, after losing two towers in record time on top of my losing streak I was so demoralized I was just playing like garbage. Anyway, thanks to those who responded to my previous post for tips. Very helpful stuff. | ||
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Khul Sadukar
Australia1735 Posts
On August 18 2010 15:18 HeavOnEarth wrote: everyone is mia, but u see dragon is up -GO DO DRAGON- BADD lol this is fun can i keep going? I'm so guilty of that haha. Its always a few more seconds and I woulda got away with it. I'm trying to change my jungle whoring ways Keep going. I'm sure there's plenty of stupid shit ppl do but we don't know any better. | ||
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HeavOnEarth
United States7087 Posts
but its (annie, ashe) with a stun DIVE THEIR ASSES BAD U see a person(annie, ashe) with a stun with 1/4 hp, blue pilling. Farm a creep wave then blue pill for items so you can still be dominant OKAY Farm a creep wave then gank sidelanes GOOD Farm a creep wave then gank sidelanes, while calling mid mia while you're ganking. Also, instead of last hitting the last creep, start to blue pill as the creep is going to die, and when the fog of war is gone, go gank sidelane instead of blue pilling. Then going back and buying wards for enemy blue buff and dragon EXCELLENT While you're at fountain after easily double killing some noobs give tips to allies and make sure they know the opposing team is physical heavy, or caster heavy, or cc heavy( merc treads) also maybe call your jungler to cover mid if ashe is back pushing. all while solving a differential calculus equation in your head FUCKING ASIAN edited to remove repetition. | ||
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Southlight
United States11767 Posts
You flash with Annie and combo her Except you lagspike Get stunned And die in the tower EZPZLMNSQZ | ||
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idakeh
Canada8 Posts
On August 18 2010 18:06 HeavOnEarth wrote: U see a person with 1/4 hp at the tower, blue pilling. but its (annie, ashe) with a stun DIVE THEIR ASSES BAD U see a person(annie, ashe) with a stun with 1/4 hp, blue pilling. Farm a creep wave then blue pill for items so you can still be dominant OKAY U see a person(annie, ashe) with a stun with 1/4 hp, blue pilling. Farm a creep wave then gank sidelanes Also, instead of last hitting the last creep, start to blue pill as the creep is going to die, and when the fog of war is gone, go gank sidelane instead of blue pilling. GOOD U see a person(annie, ashe) with a stun with 1/4 hp, blue pilling. Farm a creep wave then gank sidelanes, while calling mid mia while you're ganking. Then going back and buying wards for enemy blue buff and dragon EXCELLENT U see a person(annie, ashe) with a stun with 1/4 hp, blue pilling. Farm a creep wave then gank sidelanes, while calling mid mia while you're ganking. Then going back and buying wards for enemy blue buff and dragon While you're at fountain give tips to allies and make sure they know the opposing team is physical heavy, or caster heavy, or cc heavy( merc treads) also maybe call your jungler to cover mid if ashe is back pushing. all while solving a differential calculus equation in your head FUCKING ASIAN koreans are good with anything that involes a unit and right clicking to move that unit | ||
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
On August 18 2010 18:21 Southlight wrote: U see a person (annie, ashe) with a stun with 1/4 hp, blue pilling. You flash with Annie and combo her Except you lagspike Get stunned And die in the tower EZPZLMNSQZ more like flash in, die and make an excuse about lags | ||
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rredtooth
5459 Posts
On August 18 2010 18:35 UniversalSnip wrote: then make 10 consecutive rage posts in the TL thread only to "derp" them later.more like flash in, die and make an excuse about lags | ||
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