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On July 29 2010 20:45 Pakje wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2010 19:23 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
I gotta update it, there's been a HUGE change to magic-heavy teams and sometimes you just HAVE to open negatron cloak + merc treads. Yeah your guide has been a great help to me but I'm curious if you still start with regen pendant?
I usually do, but if they have a jungler lately I've been going rejuv bead + ward + 3 hp pots, warding their golem (with my team) and teleporting to it when their jungler is taking it to hit a sick rupture for a steal or a kill. The rejuv bead becomes spirit visage and I build another tank item or a NLR after that depending on how the game goes.
Really it's all just about knowing how to adapt.
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On July 30 2010 01:56 r33k wrote:I think I just saw a transfusion from a 18 tank Vlad take out 60% of a lv 14 WW's hp... Warmog's is devastating on that guy 
I actually think warmog's is a waste, Rylai's is better and more cost-effective and I'd rather have a Zhonya's than a warmog's  .
The thing about Vlad is that his EHP isn't very good, he just has a lot of HP. People think he's a tank but usually a Rammus/Amumu/Cho with half his HP can take WAY more hits than him.
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why don't vlads go like boots + HoG, merc, rylai's, GA, Z-Ring, Omen?
it seems like since you're accidentally ending up with a fuckton of HP anyway, you have a lot to gain from tanking out =\.
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8751 Posts
Yeah I've tried a few builds on Vlad and I don't think Warmog's is the best. It's certainly not terrible on him. Once you feed it up a bit and get Spirit Visage, his health regen is through the roof. But how useful is that really? It's nice but probably not gonna win you team fights.
I wish all his bonus damage came from HP and not from AP and his passive was changed to get like 20% extra health from bonus health, and his damage was decreased a bit, so he could actually tank. Yeah I guess he'd just be another Cho then but he'd be doing more damage, and increasing his team's damage, and wouldn't have the disables. So they'd still play way differently.
I think GA would be really great on Vlad. It ups EHP so much. If you've got a decent soulstealer, then GA is huge. Something like SS, Rylai, GA, Zhonya. I dunno!
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On July 30 2010 00:37 briann wrote:
Here is what we have so far:
1. Me: the only level 30 in the group can play most champions ( most experienced ) prefer fiddel gragas jax morgana nasus TF
2.my sister: plays cautiously pretty much only uses annie and usually ends up with a 2+:1 kd
3.friend A: second most experienced plays shen Kayle and Cho primarily.
4.friend b: not too experienced but still pretty good ( lvl 13ish) plays Shaco primarily but cant seem to bd properiy .. he will learn
5.least experienced level 10 only got even kd once. doesnt really have hero preference usually goes ashe or trist to stay ranged.
The most ideal role you could fill for your team is a tank of some sort. If Friend A focuses on Kayle and your sister does her job you can probably 3v5 the other team at low elos. Giving your other friends space to learn their roles.
For players 4 and 5.
Player 4 seems to be learning.
Some other poster mentioned a whole laundry list of what shaco needs to be able to do. All of those were true, but first and foremost he needs to gank and be stealing buffs/be annoying like that. Shaco is one of those heroes that being ONLY DECENT is still a major help to your team and being AMAZING can turn a game.
Player number 5 is in trouble.
Before I explain I'll say i'm at summoner level 26 and I main Ashe. I'm not super pro, but Ashe is a squishy and mana hungry hero. I admit she is simple and easy to "learn." But being a mediocre Ashe is almost as bad because mediocre Ashe's have a usefulness Cooldown linked to Their Ulti (R Skill) and E. Similar story with trist.
There are really more 'fun' and helpful heroes to learn. Playing another hero might help his KDR because Ashe and Trist have low HP and are rather unforgiving in terms of escaping and 1v1. (Ashe more so than Trist)
If he really has fun playing both of these champs then by all means let him continue. However, make sure he isn't just cornered by what is recommended or what he's familiar with. XIN ZHAO is free this week tell him to give it a spin. Xin Zhao is probably more simple than Ashe in terms of mechanics required.
Quick rant on Ashe: I believe without runes you are really squishy and mana deprived early game. You say buy mana regen and survivability? What happened to your main purpose which is DAMAGE? You spent early game farming for let's say Chalice and Banshee or you Opened Doran's Blade/Shield and got 1 more survivability item. That is already a huge portion of your gold budget sunk in items which don't help you fulfill your purpose. I run T3 HP Quints and mp5/lvl seals and I can still run dry pretty quickly if I don't budget my mana and I'm still comparatively squishy. However with the cushion runes give me I achieve the purpose of my champion much earlier than someone who has to buy items to do the same things my runes do.
Ashe sadly (T.T) isn't a hard carry. She is support damage and she needs a team. I've lost games 14/4/20 BUT I've also won games 2/7/28. Feeding early on gimps YOU AND YOUR TEAM.
TL;DR
Play a tank.
Friend A play Kayle
Friend B BD isn't Shaco's only purpose don't get too hung up.
Friend C Don't play Ashe or Trist unless you REALLY like them. Try Xin Zhao.
To really excel with Ashe you really need Runes to help make up for your deficits so you get damage items faster and be useful.
Mediocre Ashe and Below are wastes of time and gimping your team. (Harsh, but true)
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chat offline?
I've had like 6 friends online all day -_-
And now I have 0
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On July 30 2010 03:21 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
Yeah I've tried a few builds on Vlad and I don't think Warmog's is the best. It's certainly not terrible on him. Once you feed it up a bit and get Spirit Visage, his health regen is through the roof. But how useful is that really? It's nice but probably not gonna win you team fights.
I wish all his bonus damage came from HP and not from AP and his passive was changed to get like 20% extra health from bonus health, and his damage was decreased a bit, so he could actually tank. Yeah I guess he'd just be another Cho then but he'd be doing more damage, and increasing his team's damage, and wouldn't have the disables. So they'd still play way differently.
I think GA would be really great on Vlad. It ups EHP so much. If you've got a decent soulstealer, then GA is huge. Something like SS, Rylai, GA, Zhonya. I dunno!
Agree on everything, what I found interesting about Warmog Vlad is that we were doing split pushes with myself as mapcontrol manbearpig and with teemo also popping out of nowhere Vlad just allowed us to quickly overpower and dive anywhere we wanted, basically our BD players were able to run over whoever they'd send to defend while keeping their mid under pressure.
It's an item suited for attrition wars but I found it to be really good nonetheless.
Also lowbies can't mapcontrol, I'm 9-2 with manbearpig so far since our 1v2 guy always gets fed by minions and the occasional ganks, with the standard jungler being WW he's so easy to be baited since they're always convinced that ult+bloodrazor=kill but leaving them 3v2ing a lane will just leech their xp and give me free creeps...
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hopped on for a quick game and man karthus is ridiculous. those little orange land mines have like a 1 second cooldown so he can keep spamming them, and they explode so fast you barely have time to escape. then his ultimate does damage to everyone... anywhere on the map?? wtf, seems OP
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he lacks utility. he does hit pretty hard for a caster, but meh, gimme annie every day of the week pl0x.
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I agree with Mogwai the way team fights usually setup and how the jungle paths. Tibbers wins.
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Ashe sadly (T.T) isn't a hard carry. She is support damage and she needs a team. I've lost games 14/4/20 BUT I've also won games 2/7/28. Feeding early on gimps YOU AND YOUR TEAM.
Every hero needs a team at the start of the game. Sure there are junglers but the basics of jungling is that your team has to be strong enough to handle 1v2 situations.
Ashe is a hard carry, but ultimately like all hard carries she is very item, summoner, rune dependant.
you dont have to finish banshees veil, catalyst is pretty awesome for staying power and tankability early game, its a matter of building her upwards, to wait with finishing certain items and build her for the future rather than the now.
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Yeah ashe is squishy, but that doesn't matter. She's a carry and meant to be a damage dealer, not a tank. I normally get guardian angel on her though just to help her survive more, but that is my very last item if the game is still going on.
http://img180.imageshack.us/f/asheh.png/
Can't really complain about ashe at all. And that was my old build on her. I like bloodthirster better than Executioner's Calling now. It just does more damage and you don't need the extra critical on her as much by the time you have have the other items as almost every shot she does is a critical anyway.
Don't mind my horrible record. That was on an EU server (my friends play there) and like half of them on there are so stupid and don't even speak english that I'm surprised they know how to breath. So normally only lose b/c the other team gets fed from my 12 year old french teammates. ;p
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On July 30 2010 03:50 Win.win wrote:
hopped on for a quick game and man karthus is ridiculous. those little orange land mines have like a 1 second cooldown so he can keep spamming them, and they explode so fast you barely have time to escape. then his ultimate does damage to everyone... anywhere on the map?? wtf, seems OP
He is hardly OP. I consider him a very balanced hero. There are many ways of avoiding or mitigating his ulti and requires significant teamwork to be used to its fullest potential.
His mines are his main source of damage and anyone with +2 boots can escape damage from them if they are centered on that player and they are paying attention.
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I'd like your definition of a hard carry. I think we might just have 2 different definitions which causes our disagreement.
I agree. Although I'm not level 30 (Level 26 ATM) so I haven't had to preemptively build catalyst without the immediate intention of building banshee's. I think I agree with your point about planning for the future. It is a balance though. I don't think gimping yourself by over thinking what the opponent might do is a viable strat.
My normal build is
Doran's dagger OR Longsword both with 1 healthpot
Brutalizer + Swift boots -> IE -> Zeal or Banshee's (Alternatively Catalyst -> Zeal -> Banshee)
Like you said prioritizing as needed.
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people who call anything in LoL a hard carry never played vs. a farmed Faceless Void in DotA...
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Well you can still talk about "hard carries" in a LoL context, I suppose. It's true that you never get to 1v5 anyone (unless you were old beta Jax), which sort of defeats the concept of hard carry. Idunno, semantics.
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I dont know, I've 1v5'd with Sion on more then one occasion. He can just be so annoying to take down when he uses his ulti it's not even funny.
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well, one of the things that people really seem to be missing is that a fully specced tank that has damage output from abilities, not items, is by far and away the strongest class at the end of the game. Yet when we talk about "carries" in LoL, we're always talking about characters that shine in the mid game with offensive itemization, but I don't care who you are, a fully specced Amumu is going to push your shit in and there's nothing you can do about it.
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but I don't care who you are, a fully specced Amumu is going to push your shit in and there's nothing you can do about it.
Gdamn Mogwai, you made me lol hard.
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sometimes I wish Riot was a real company, with real, stable, servers and not just a bunch of neckbeards in a garage charging 20 dollars for skins.
The game is very fun to play casually and kill time on but they are so unprofessional its embarrassing.
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EPT
