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Good tryhard mains would be Kayle, Shaco, Twitch to some extent, Heimerdinger, Udyr... basically champions that dominate from early on until the later stages as well and who can take a game over early on. I'd count Nidalee there as well if HotShotGG played as her but I've never seen anything even close to it(like, you could watch his nidalee for 30 seconds without knowing who it is and you'd know if it's him or not). Maybe won't work for others..
On July 19 2010 11:10 Kultcher wrote:
This is something I've been thinking about a bit.
How indicative do you guys think K/D rations really are? I find that I end a lot of games just breaking even or with less kills than deaths, but my assists are often through the roof. In fact I often feel like I do a lot of the work for kills but other people end up getting the killing blow just out of sheer luck or because I have to back off and let someone else finish the fight.
If you contribute reasonably well to pretty much every teamfight, can you still be considered a feeder just because you end up with a lot of deaths over kills? Or along the same lines, what would you consider a better score: 14/9/12 or 3/6/21?
I was reading a Nasus guide and came accross this quote:
In the same game at the same point in time on two opposing teams we have the following:
Nasus 1 with SS bonus dmg of 150 with a K/D/A of 8/4/5.
Nasus 2 with SS bonus dmg of 80 with a K/D/D of 3/4/9.
Which Nasus is doing better?
a) Nasus 1
b) Nasus 2
c) Not enough information
If you picked a: Thanks for being honest. You went with your first impression (which was the same as 80% of readers). Unfortunately you are wrong.
If you picked b: Um... you are either stupid or just thinking way too hard.
If you picked c: You are correct, though it's probably because you have some common sense and realized that's where I was going with this, or it was just the most tempting option (much like an all/none of the above option).
So we see that Nasus 1 has more SS last hits and more kills. Nasus 2 has less SS bonus damage and less kills. However, Nasus 2's team is winning very handily. What are some reason that might be the case?
Nasus 2 (let's call him Bob) had a difficult 1v2 lane while fiddle jungled. He had to level SF and struggled to defend his tower. He didn't get as many SS last hits because the enemy was harassing persistently. However, he was successful in keeping his tower up and eventually the enemies got bored of the stalemate and wandered off for ganks. The enemy team paid little attention to Bob as he grabbed golem buff and proceeded to push down his lanes tower. At 15 minutes Bob was lvl 12 with boots and Aegis and his team went for an early Baron and then immediately pushed in 2 more towers in the middle lane. Bob focused on lvling wither rather than SS and in team clashes he completely shut down the enemy carry. He didn't have massive SS bonus dmg so he didn't get many kills, but he got lots of assists from wither and spirit fire and his ultimate. Nasus 1 (lets call him dumbass nub) was busy sitting in his lane trying to get the highest possible SS bonus damage. He got some early kills with his lane-mate, Janna, got some dmg items, and was able to gank for some more kills throughout the game. Unfortunately dumbass nub was so busy farming his lane and maxing his SS that he didn't notice/didn't care that the enemy team was pushing middle lane and so his team was demolished by Bob's team 5v4. Bob was not worried about getting kills and instead last hits were gotten by his teams ashe/jax/fiddle/annie/whoever who now have 2 BF swords or a stacked mejais and are completely roflestomping the enemy team. Bob pushes down 2 more towers and an inhibitor on the way to victory. Dumbass nub proclaims in all chat "LOL I have 200 SS bonus dmg LOL".
So, I'll ask again: which Nasus is doing better?
Sure it's a character specific situation but something to think about =)
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The other misleading thing about K/D(only applies to some champs) is that some people will see a situation that isn't a surefire thing, and refuse to commit to it. The problem is that in close games, teamfights are rarely sure things, but when somoene fails to commit to it completely you end up losing, 4 people end up 'feeding' and 1 person survives. You see a lot of general forum complaints with people like 'i went 2/0/1 rest of my team went 2/10/4, fuckin feeders' and chances are that person had a chance to at least make the game more competitive. Instead they looked at a situation as 'probably losing' and cared more about their image as a player than attempting to turn the game around by commiting to fights that just maybe they could win.
As Southlight(I think it was him?) touched on in an earlier post, getting 1 kill mid, and like 1 gank kill, doesn't mean you've put the game so far in favor of your team that any failure after is completely off your shoulders because 'you did your part.'
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On July 19 2010 12:03 red_ wrote:
The other misleading thing about K/D(only applies to some champs) is that some people will see a situation that isn't a surefire thing, and refuse to commit to it. The problem is that in close games, teamfights are rarely sure things, but when somoene fails to commit to it completely you end up losing, 4 people end up 'feeding' and 1 person survives. You see a lot of general forum complaints with people like 'i went 2/0/1 rest of my team went 2/10/4, fuckin feeders' and chances are that person had a chance to at least make the game more competitive. Instead they looked at a situation as 'probably losing' and cared more about their image as a player than attempting to turn the game around by commiting to fights that just maybe they could win.
As Southlight(I think it was him?) touched on in an earlier post, getting 1 kill mid, and like 1 gank kill, doesn't mean you've put the game so far in favor of your team that any failure after is completely off your shoulders because 'you did your part.'
We had a chogath like that. We did well early on but then in every teamfight the chogath with full tank items just ran away at the start of the fights and we all died. Then he called everyone a feeder with his nice 4-0-2 record that he got by feast-KSing. such a good player
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On July 19 2010 10:40 Kultcher wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2010 10:24 redtooth wrote:
the more i play kat, the more i see her huuuuge limitations. if i were to start over again and choose a hero to main then kat would not even be near the top of the list. for your sake, i suggest you look elsewhere for your tryhard main. Yeah, I really agree with this. Kat was my first real main but since I've been doing ranked games and people don't just overextend against my early aggression, I find that I have a hard time getting rolling with Kat. I kind of feel like she needs the early gold boost from a couple of early kills/assists to really have much impact on the late game. She's still fun to play but definitely much harder to use against competent players who don't overextend early and either CC/focus you out of Death Lotus during teamfights. the main problem with kat is her need to rely on voracity. that means she excels in huge teamfights where lots of people die and HP drops really fast. she's useless in games where people are slowly kiting each other down or where 1 or 2 heroes may die early but the rest are thick enough to last a while. her role helps winning teams keep dominating team fights but can't really single-handedly turn the tides of a losing game.
On July 19 2010 11:10 Kultcher wrote:
This is something I've been thinking about a bit.
How indicative do you guys think K/D rations really are? I find that I end a lot of games just breaking even or with less kills than deaths, but my assists are often through the roof. In fact I often feel like I do a lot of the work for kills but other people end up getting the killing blow just out of sheer luck or because I have to back off and let someone else finish the fight.
If you contribute reasonably well to pretty much every teamfight, can you still be considered a feeder just because you end up with a lot of deaths over kills? Or along the same lines, what would you consider a better score: 14/9/12 or 3/6/21? kdr really means absolutely nothing. unless you have a truly absurd kdr in one game (i'm talking >20:1) or have a solid kdr over many many games (>3:1) then you can't use kdr as an indication of skill. for example, support heroes have very low kdr yet they always contribute heavily to the team.
one of the most annoying things i read in this thread is "i got _____ kdr and my team lost". what the fuck does that tell me? does it say you're good? does it say you got bad teammates? does it say you should have won? it's like saying "i got _____ score in a BW game and i lost". good for you, now stop QQing and move on.
On July 19 2010 11:22 oberon wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2010 10:24 redtooth wrote:On July 19 2010 02:30 APurpleCow wrote:
My rating is 1110 in solo queue, never played with a partner.
...
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I'm definitely in the top 10% of players. I hate MM. lol. another mid-high Elo player bites the dust. On July 19 2010 03:57 oberon wrote:On July 19 2010 03:29 Slaughter wrote:
I kinda have that problem in that I play Karthus who really isn't a char that can wtf pwn 1v5 and carry a bad team vs competent players, Though I do love skill shoting people with LW and killing them. Seriously who stands there and lets you LW them 20x even though they are standing behind creeps and next to the turret? I'm considering learning Kat solely because she can solo mid and carry. the more i play kat, the more i see her huuuuge limitations. if i were to start over again and choose a hero to main then kat would not even be near the top of the list. for your sake, i suggest you look elsewhere for your tryhard main. OK, so who would be? Show nested quote +On July 19 2010 05:42 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
imo when you duo queue, have one person play a jungler and the other person play a 1v2. if your mid is decent and your other lane doesnt completely feed, you should dominate the game (assuming you're truly that much better than your opponents) i couldn't agree more. inept and i usually ran this except i went solo mid and he got jungle. we were able to dominate two huge aspects of the laning stage and this lead allowed us to carry baddies through the game. polevaulted us to #1 and #7 (for a period of a few hours lool). On July 19 2010 07:00 Shikyo wrote:
HotShotGG just played a game that makes me now save 3150 IP for Nidalee :/ haha don't expect to pull off whatever he does though. people don't like him because he's such an egoist but IMO he's by far the best nidalee in the game. don't mean to sound like a fanboy bitch but it's hard to think of another character who has such a skill gap between the best and second best (whoever it is). i thought i was pretty competent at mid til i ran into HS's nidalee and got shit on. he had around double my cs and forced me out of lane before 5. I assume you were playing Kat? How did he force you out before he had his cat-burst to threaten you? It seems like Kat would burst a lot harder than Nid pre-6. hmm. if i were to choose someone to go back in time to main it would be corki. ezreal/kayle or any of the ranged carries are always solid picks. after watching inept play i feel that mastering a jungling character (or jungling in general) is another very viable option.
eh part of it had to do with my playstyle of kat. if you've played me you'll know that i play utility/squishy kat. normally i am able to pull ahead because people aren't used to the ridiculously fast-paced and harrass oriented gameplay and also concentrate on cs at the same time. he was able to keep up. hard to describe in words sorta.
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Anyone on TL want to run a Jax team? I can provide Zilean support, but obviously we'll need a Jax. Kayle and/or Morgana would be good. Taric, too. One or two tanks and someone random.
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Woot, had my first really good game as Kassadin, went 10-3-13. Should've been 10-2 but I got greedy as I often do.  I feel like I'm finally becoming the unkillable assassin that Kass is supposed to be. At least I could tell the other team really hated me because they were literally chasing me from their Inhib tower to our side of the river just to finish me.
I'm still finding myself relying on Tear/Archangel's just so I can actually stay active in the field after getting a kill. I went something like Doran's Ring -> Mejai's -> Tear -> GA -> Archangel's.
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Despite what some people say, I think you should get RoA as first item for Kass. He really needs both the mana and the health since he's melee. I think it's a lot better than archangel for Kassadin at least.
Kobe gets it for his Kass first and I think he's like top 5 or something.
EDIT: first solo queue game with jungling shaco, pretty much just ganked alot :/ ended 8-3-11 with our katarina going like 17-3 after the laning phase and megacarrying us. Still, I feel like the jungling experiment was nice, even though their Yi kept stealing my buffs.
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On July 19 2010 12:45 Tooplark wrote:
Anyone on TL want to run a Jax team? I can provide Zilean support, but obviously we'll need a Jax. Kayle and/or Morgana would be good. Taric, too. One or two tanks and someone random.
Uh i can play Jax for you guys, just because that would be funny to 1v5 everyone
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
cant believe its only been a week and I just played a game that had 10 high elo players in it.
araragi/xcessiv/chiat/me/nexabc vs misterimpossible/furor/oscica/brrk/some taric
funny that when I try in ranked i actually have to carry teams like this...
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On July 19 2010 04:08 GogoKodo wrote:
I've yet to watch a LoL stream that doesn't have completely lagged video during any fights. Can hear the audio but the video stream just stops until most of the fighting dies down. It's not just me either, lots of other people always complaining in the chat.
I wonder if I put the game on all four CPU's and highest priority if that would fix it. Hmmm. I'll have to give it a shot. People complain about that too on my stream.
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On July 19 2010 08:52 Mogwai wrote:this game is barely even fun any more  ...
Poor Mog, play Eve or another noobstomp character. I've been having fun hatespiking people to death (last game, I outran a Nidalee with my Ult, and spammed hatespike taking her from half life to death hahaha)
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On July 19 2010 14:14 pokeyAA wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2010 08:52 Mogwai wrote:this game is barely even fun any more ... Poor Mog, play Eve or another noobstomp character. I've been having fun hatespiking people to death (last game, I outran a Nidalee with my Ult, and spammed hatespike taking her from half life to death hahaha)
i just play gay push characters that were always better than Pantheon to try to make others miserable and wish that I were instagibbing them with heartseeker instead. that's my theory at least, but it seems that I just get complements on my good heimer/sivir/taric/soraka whereas when I was winning with panth I was a fotm faggot with no skill abusing a glitch/op char to win.
siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh
i sorta like playing xin zhao too but I'm still slummin' it in lower elos where people seem to be of the impression that he's horrifically OP and ban him every game, so yea, still only really had a couple chances to play him.
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On July 19 2010 12:45 Tooplark wrote:
Anyone on TL want to run a Jax team? I can provide Zilean support, but obviously we'll need a Jax. Kayle and/or Morgana would be good. Taric, too. One or two tanks and someone random.
I'll play Janna or Morg :3
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They need to give Pantheon the ability to cast summoner spells as soon as the circle pops up again. That was fun. Flash right on their face and ignite them haha.
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Russian Federation4235 Posts
On July 19 2010 13:04 Shikyo wrote:
Despite what some people say, I think you should get RoA as first item for Kass. He really needs both the mana and the health since he's melee. I think it's a lot better than archangel for Kassadin at least.
Kobe gets it for his Kass first and I think he's like top 5 or something.
EDIT: first solo queue game with jungling shaco, pretty much just ganked alot :/ ended 8-3-11 with our katarina going like 17-3 after the laning phase and megacarrying us. Still, I feel like the jungling experiment was nice, even though their Yi kept stealing my buffs.
Catalyst and Tear are interchangeable after the new Kassadin buff. Tear is still a great item since it's very cheap and perfect at what it does, but Catalyst gives HP which Tear doesn't. RoA is a fun item really but it's hell of expensive. Before the redesign of his skills, I was playing Mana Crystal -> Tear -> Boots -> Mejai -> Health Crystal -> Sorc Boots -> Guise -> Archangel -> Zhonya. Now I'm leaning towards RoA more and more since you don't really need any manaregen later in the game and getting the golem buff is so much easier even with an AP build.
Oh and K/D/A rates are meaningless. Less so than in DotA/HoN (because many more heroes do damage/can carry in LoL), but I'm rarely having games where I go below 1:1, usually 2:1? Does that mean I'm a badass player? No, it's just that I main Kassadin. Had I been playing Taric, for instance, it would be entirely different.
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Some TLers sure are cry babies/poor sports about this game. I expected better sportsmanship
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Rofl i was practicing some jax earlier. Flash on jax is pretty funny because u have a decent 500 dmg nuke, followed up by a leapstrike for a bit more damage.
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So, what are your thoughts on counter-picking ? I don't see many people do it at my current elo, although there is some discussion every now and then.
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On July 19 2010 08:41 Chairman Ray wrote:
This is how I've been using locked skins:
I selected Kat as my hero. Then I switch to Cho Gath, and the flip to the nightmare skin. After which I switch back to Kat. When the game starts, I'll be using the Mercenary skin.
I don't have enough unlocked skins to fiddle around with any more, but with this information, maybe some of you can use more skins.
Oh wow cool thanks for that trick, i'll definitely try that out on heroes I don't have the skins for
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Well just last game I had a person on my team Janna counter pick their fiddles, that was nice.
I think that's like the most obvious counter pick in the game imo.
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EPT
