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shawster
Canada2485 Posts
On July 07 2010 10:44 Aurra wrote: I'm downloading this game to try out for the first time. Any suggestions on good Gank oriented characters to start out with? Heroes like Tiny and NA have always been my favorite and I love the play style of a wandering ganker. shacooo | ||
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Raelcun
United States3747 Posts
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APurpleCow
United States1372 Posts
Went Shield --> 2 HoGs+boots1 --> merc treads --> banshees --> 4 sunfires. Had over 300 creep kills by the end of the game and was able to take pretty much their entire team on at the same time. I think I like this hero. What's a normal item build for him? | ||
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petered
United States1817 Posts
Singed really isn't that hard. There are a number of items that work well on him. I will just throw out some random observations. - always always always take cleanse. Cannot think of a reason you wouldn't take cleanse. The biggest threat to singed is disable/slow. Between your ult, poison trail, glue stick, and cleanse, you become one of the hardest champs to chase down. Also makes singed one of the best baiters in the game. Lots of my kills come from when I am low health and the other team tries to focus me down. I take ghost as my second ability but I can see others in certain situations. I will say never take flash on singed. he has no ability that does burst damage, so it won't give you ganks, and then poison trail and glue stick is what keeps you alive, not flash. - I like to max out glue stick before fling. Your ult and poison trail should be maxed first always, but I think the glue stick makes you much more valuable to your team than a little bit of extra damage. the positioning is what makes fling great, not the damage. - singed is a great tower pusher with his ult, if the other team is distracted, you actually become a decent melee dps for the time your ult is on. Also with his previously mentioned escape ability, you have less worry about ganks Good items: rylai's scepter - great ap and the slow works(15% i think) on poison trail. great great survivability item. get this even if going for heavy tanking build banshee's veil - you will lead the team into fights a lot so spell shield is great. mana lets you leave poison trail on for a long time and adds to your health(passive) Haunting guise - I just recently started using this one but I really like it. Poison trail doesn't scale with AP amazingly well (.3 i think) so mpen is a great option. sorc boots/merc treads - don't deviate from this. I enjoy getting boots3 if my team is way ahead, but not good for winning. Now I can't say for sure because i haven't tried it much, but singed rarely dies and gets a ton of assists, so the soulstealer ap stack item is probably a really good item on him, but i haven't tried that one much yet. Items I don't like: health regen items - it isn't that they are worthless, just that your money is so much more useful spent on other things. You are already so hard to kill if you get a rylais and banshee, don't see the need for FoN, warmogs, spirit visage, or anything like that. They just make you less dangerous in a team fight. stacking rod of ages is silly, don't do it. Situational items: If your team really needs a tank, taking sorc boots, haunting guise, banshees veil, and as many sunfires as you can get is actually pretty effective. The mpen improves the sunfire damage i believe. If not then ignore that advice. I obviously don't tank much, I like getting kills(still not that many, singed isn't going to be getting that many kills no matter what). Frozen Heart if the other team is heavy dps. And to finish off this overly long post, i have a question. What do most people think about the hextech revolver? Theoretically the spell vamp would be great with trail, but it doesn't build to anything useful(for singed) and the vamp percentage is pretty darn small. I might play with this but I thought I would ask. | ||
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BlueBird.
United States3890 Posts
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RoieTRS
United States2569 Posts
Tier 1: Ezreal, Ashe, Warwick, Kayle, Shaco, Sivir, Annie Tier 2: Janna, Taric, Pantheon, Heimdinger, Soraka, Zilean, Katarina, Gragas, Morgana, Jax, Shen Tier 3: Fiddlesticks,Twisted fate, Nasus,Amumu,Udyr, Blitzcrank,Tristana,Nidalee, Corki,Malphite Tier 4: Master yi, Olaf, Singed, Rammus, Chogath, Kennen, Karthus, Gangplank lank,Poppy, Twitch, Anivia, Nunu, Malzahar, Alistar, Sion, Mordekesier, KogMaw Tier 5: Garen, Kassadin, Akali, Mundo,Veigar, Ryze, Teemo, Tryndamare, Evelynn | ||
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Athos
United States2484 Posts
On July 07 2010 11:04 dyren wrote: Anyone have Shaco tips? I've read as many guides as I can find and watches a thousand videos on YouTube. I can't decide between AP Shaco and Attack Shaco. I tend to rape either way as long as my team is winning the overall game and not losing any key fights (or losing kills to 3vs2 or 2vs1 situations.) Also any Shaco players out there prefer jungle Shaco? If so what's your item build, skill-up order, and general plan of action? I tend to start the game with Elixir of Fortitude/Health Potx2/Mana Potx2 and with Jack in the Box first I go straight for the Golem Mana buff - then directly to the lane where I last hit some and mostly I just spam boxes and shiv and annoy my opponents. I can usually score a First Blood - and the Golem Buff really allows Shaco to spam his abilities a ton early on and stay in the lane for a long time. I think everyone knows what Shaco does mid and late game - kill shit... turrets, champions, minions.. whatever. Anyway I'd like to hear from the other Shaco players out there. Cheers I don't play at high elo yet, but I do have a 2-1 winrate with shaco over like 70 games with him. I've played so much shaco that it's gotten to the point where I literally can't win with anybody else... I use a pretty standard build that I almost never deviate from. I typically open boots 3 potions. I don't typically buy sight wards unless I have to lane against a twitch, or they have a warwick; in which case you can open cloth armor and get 1 sight ward and 1 potion. At the start ofthe game you want to go get the blue buff with the jack and the boxes which you already do. I then lane untill I get 1000 gold in which case I tele back, buy madrid's razor and start jungling. I then get a vamp scepter with my next 450 gold, and then get either boots of mobility, greeves, or merk treads depending on how the game is going. I then continue to jungle, control all the buffs, and help gank for my team. Eventually, I get enough for Madrid's bloodrazor, which is a phenomenal weapon because the 4% of max hp damage also transfers to the clone, allowing you to tear through almost anything. I then upgrade the scepter to starks and after that I go for guardian angel. The stark's used to be glitched so it gave out a double aura on allowing shaco to do crazy amounts of damage and solo baron way too early. Even though that's been fixed, I still get it because the life steak is ever so useful while jungling anyhow and it's just an all around great item. By the time you get guardian angel, you should have probably won the game already. By now you should be able to solo baron by yourself (although it can be close now) and the guardian angel will drive your opponents mad. The 5th item is really up to you. Some games I go aegis, and some games I go sunfire. At that point it really doesn't matter too much because if you have that much money you can do whatever you want. This is really the standard way to play shaco which I learned in this thread a couple 50-60 pages back. It's ridiculous how many games you can win with him at mid-low elo because people are just bad against stealth. It's also ridiculous how many people play shaco wrong. Most people go right for the inf edge, which although really shiney, doesn't really work as well as a bloodrazor. the bloodrazor gives you more than enough dps to tear through anybody, some shaco's really go for overkill. The other build I see a lot of Shaco's go for is Sunfire shaco, which seems to work pretty well actually. I would still get a bloodrazor before trying it though as it just works so well. The best advice I could give you as shaco is to carry Cleanse Ghost as summoner spells. You can literally get out of any situation with them. Also you are the best chaser in the game, be sneaky, be dangerous, but don't be stupid. You should always be able to deceive out of trouble. Anyways, I still have a lot to learn with Shaco, and I've never really tried going AP with him as I've been so successful going AD that I don't wanna deviate too much. On an unrelated note I just spent all my IP on pantheon and can't wait to try him out (knowing my luck he's gonna be nerfed like tomorrow now that I bought him). | ||
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HazMat
United States17077 Posts
On July 07 2010 15:19 RoieTRS wrote: This is a friend of mine's tier list. He is very skilled. I would change aboslutely nothing about it. Please discuss. Tier 1: Ezreal, Ashe, Warwick, Kayle, Shaco, Sivir, Annie Tier 2: Janna, Taric, Pantheon, Heimdinger, Soraka, Zilean, Katarina, Gragas, Morgana, Jax, Shen Tier 3: Fiddlesticks,Twisted fate, Nasus,Amumu,Udyr, Blitzcrank,Tristana,Nidalee, Corki,Malphite Tier 4: Master yi, Olaf, Singed, Rammus, Chogath, Kennen, Karthus, Gangplank lank,Poppy, Twitch, Anivia, Nunu, Malzahar, Alistar, Sion, Mordekesier, KogMaw Tier 5: Garen, Kassadin, Akali, Mundo,Veigar, Ryze, Teemo, Tryndamare, Evelynn Not sure if you're trolling but that list is so off. Like WW in t1, wtf? I'm not a huge fan of tier lists though so I won't go any further. | ||
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BlueBird.
United States3890 Posts
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FlameSworD
United States414 Posts
but not warwick or sivir or kayle also tanks need some love , like rammus amnunu blitz are probaly the best ones heimer guide own mid get 19 min zhonya push gg no for real but ITEMS Open with meki 2 hp pots , build soccer shoes / merctreads next , upgrade to chalice if u want, pick up zhonya asap and maybe soul stealer if your vs baddies. other choices include mana crystal catalyst into roa or archangel staff stacks doran ring is nice when you need the hp of it. for defensive gear. the normal stuff like bashee veil vs strong casters and guardian angel. but i rarly get any defence items cause heimer is easy mode SKILLS max turret always except for ult . then nades lv ,2 ,4 and rockets lv 13. alternatively going rocket, nade and skipping turrets is good. if you cant keep turrets up. Summoner spells you either can run clarity teleport for laning domination or flash ghost for running. havnt tryed much else Jungle well i really only jungle for a little bit. getting wraiths with grenades is nice. try to pick up golem dragon at lv 10ish then go for strong push mid with zhonya ring, teampushing _ setup turrets grenade tower it does a good 150ish. if your able get in close and put turret next to tower to speed up the push. grenade heros if you can but dont save grenade for heros. grenade rocket combo is nice since they have similar cooldowns and should do some decent damage.In coclusion destroying the other team nexus all that matters. Which heimer excels at. btw you should go solo mid everygame heimer just isnt great at sidelaning at all. | ||
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
On July 07 2010 15:19 RoieTRS wrote: This is a friend of mine's tier list. He is very skilled. I would change aboslutely nothing about it. Please discuss. Tier 1: Ezreal, Ashe, Warwick, Kayle, Shaco, Sivir, Annie Tier 2: Janna, Taric, Pantheon, Heimdinger, Soraka, Zilean, Katarina, Gragas, Morgana, Jax, Shen Tier 3: Fiddlesticks,Twisted fate, Nasus,Amumu,Udyr, Blitzcrank,Tristana,Nidalee, Corki,Malphite Tier 4: Master yi, Olaf, Singed, Rammus, Chogath, Kennen, Karthus, Gangplank,Poppy, Twitch, Anivia, Nunu, Malzahar, Alistar, Sion, Mordekesier, KogMaw Tier 5: Garen, Kassadin, Akali, Mundo,Veigar, Ryze, Teemo, Tryndamare, Evelynn ![[image loading]](http://mrrev.us/forum/Smileys/NN/ugh2.gif) all the ones i bolded are DEFINITELY in the wrong tier, no debate needed edit: upon another look there were so many more that needed bolding | ||
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RoieTRS
United States2569 Posts
On July 07 2010 15:27 HazMat wrote: Not sure if you're trolling but that list is so off. Like WW in t1, wtf? I'm not a huge fan of tier lists though so I won't go any further. Jungling is so important that I would say if you don't have your jungles under control and the other team does it is gg. Warwick is good at that, and he can solo dragon at level 3 (maybe even 2) By "under control" i dont mean taking blue or red buff every once in a while or when they spawn. I mean all of them. On July 07 2010 15:51 gtrsrs wrote:] no debate needed That is a stupid thing to say. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
too high: WW, Kayle, Shaco, Sivir, Pantheon, Zilean, Gragas, Jax, Blitzcrank too low: Soraka, heimer, nasus, amumu, rammus, anivia, alistar, KASSADIN (fucking christ, he's so much lower than he should be) The metagame is currently defined by Ezreal, Ashe, Soraka, and Heimer, and frankly, I think they're the only characters who should be in the top tier. WW just hasn't been impressing me recently. He seems more susceptible to counter-jungling than most and I dunno, he just doesn't strike me as #3 material by any stretch of the imagination. Kayle Shaco and Sivir are just a tad too high. Sivir's on the tail end of Tier 2 in my mind, but I don't see much of her anymore. Kayle and Shaco are solo push kings and fit nicely in the meta, but I think they're overstated sitting where they are on your list. Annie is near the top end of tier 2 IMO, but w/e, that's largely about where you define your cutoffs. She's boring and great, nothing new to see here. Pantheon should be below Kat. They largely fill the same role, but Pantheon is quicker about blowing up teams and is stronger early game, and Kat pokes better and retains more usefulness end game. With the poking and healing meta, I think Kat is all around stronger than Pantheon, but it's close. I think they're right next to each other in terms of viability and I think it's pretty much on the tail end of tier 2, both behind Shen IMO. No idea why Gragas and Zilean are so high... Niether packs the snowballing punch of Pantheon, yet they both suffer from the same crippling lack of usefulness end game. They're somewhere between middle of tier 3 and middle of tier 4, no way they're tier 2 material. Jax sucks, he's just a glorified master yi at this point, only slightly better cause he does have a disable and I suppose requires less farm. Top of tier 4 with Yi IMO. Blitz is too high... he's a one-trick pony with some decent utility, but I dunno, he just seems so outclassed by real initiators... same set of problems as Grag, but his stalemate breaker is less versatile than Grags. I think their relative positions are correct, but I think they both need to move down basically a whole tier. In general, it seems you have no love for tanks... no real tanks in the top 2 tiers, closest being Taric/Shen/Grag, but where's Nasus? Amumu? You know? The guys who singlehandedly win you games with well placed ults. They're both tier 2, and certainly at least in the middle of that tier, if not on the higher end. Rammus is lower tier 2 or higher tier 3. Not the best tank in terms of forcing fights, but a strong early-mid game ganker with nice damage output. Alistar is solidly tier 3, still the best traditional tank, but still feels outdated. anivia and kass hate on the list is boggling to me... Anivia is such a strong nuker in capable hands... She takes games over in ways that other casters can only dream of. No fucking clue why she's on the tail end of tier 4. And Kassadin, the perfect counter to roaming spammers that run rampant in the team's 5th slot in this meta is in bottom tier? GTFO, dude's insane, high tier 3 at least IMO. | ||
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BluzMan
Russian Federation4235 Posts
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Kaniol
Poland5551 Posts
FINALLY!!!! 3 days after i get my internet back cause my 3 month ban ends, hooorayy :D | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On July 07 2010 15:54 BluzMan wrote: The last time I looked Soraka and Janna had the most win% while WW and Sivir did not. Annie is not tier 1 as well for sure. Dunno about Shaco and Ashe, there are too many newbs playing those heroes. WW has really high win % on lolbase, but I mostly attribute that to the fact that on newer players, WW will lead to a lot of easy wins because: a) no one takes the jungle without him and a WW with free reign over jungle is insane b) no one runs cleanse. | ||
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
On July 07 2010 15:52 RoieTRS wrote: Jungling is so important that I would say if you don't have your jungles under control and the other team does it is gg. Warwick is good at that, and he can solo dragon at level 3 (maybe even 2) By "under control" i dont mean taking blue or red buff every once in a while or when they spawn. I mean all of them. That is a stupid thing to say. just being good at jungling does not a top tier hero make and just because you're blatantly wrong on at least 10-15 of these heroes does not mean i'm stupid for pointing it out | ||
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BluzMan
Russian Federation4235 Posts
Annie is near the top end of tier 2 IMO, but w/e, that's largely about where you define your cutoffs. She's boring and great, nothing new to see here. I would hardly call Annie boring. She can be played as a boring nuker (think Lina from DotA) but if you aim at using her innate and actually not getting the kills you don't need, she's far from that. She's a crazy ass initiator with a 450 damage AoE nuke/stun, probably one of the best ones, the only problem here is the casting range. | ||
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RoieTRS
United States2569 Posts
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On July 07 2010 16:02 BluzMan wrote: I would hardly call Annie boring. She can be played as a boring nuker (think Lina from DotA) but if you aim at using her innate and actually not getting the kills you don't need, she's far from that. She's a crazy ass initiator with a 450 damage AoE nuke/stun, probably one of the best ones, the only problem here is the casting range. she is boring... very cut and dry nuker, but also very efficient at what she does as with AoE stuns to boot. I'm not dissin', just saying that there's not a whole lot of nuance to her character. On July 07 2010 16:07 RoieTRS wrote: Tanks are worthless because you should never be attacking them in the first place. Shen and taric are the only good ones. errrr, agree to disagree I guess? being able to pick a fight is a very useful ability to have. | ||
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