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On July 03 2010 03:23 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2010 03:16 Shiladie wrote:
I just picked this game up, and have been doing decently with Twitch, as he's currently in the free-champ rotation. I'm thinking of swapping to Nasus though, and have gone through Hyfe's guide for him on leaguecraft. What I'm worried about is that he's a strong teamwork centric hero, and that in my low level/elo he may not be as viable as a straight dps carry like twitch or similar heroes.
I'm also holding off buying runes until I can use tier 3 runes, as it doesn't look like the rune-combining system has a very good chance of coming up with the type of rune I'd want. the only thing you need with Nasus is for your team to not hang you out to dry when you turn your ult on... which REALLY isn't asking a lot, so I'd suggest going with him, he's really a great character. not sure what the leaguecraft guide looks like, but with Nasus you want to be literally 100% tank, only possibly deviating for sheen, but eventually I got tired of that too and switched to something like: fast HoG Merc Treads 1 or 2 Tanking items (sunfires, GA, veil, thornmail) upgrade to omen more tanking items your abilities make you hit like a truck (especially the ult), so you really don't need to invest in damage so much as you need to invest in making sure you live long enough to dish it out.
what I've seen is going for Aegis of the legion into merc treads + trinity force, and then working on situational items (thornmail vs heavy phys dps team, banshee's vs magic dps team etc)
I'm thinking I may need to pick up a chalice too though, because I don't have any regen from runes or masteries yet.
edit: remembering this is from my 1 day of playing the game and a bit of online research, so please please correct me if I'm headed in the wrong direction.
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On July 03 2010 03:30 Southlight wrote:
There's no #, otherwise I'm not really sure, as I've never had a problem.
Edit:
Haven't I seen you in it before, though? I think I played with you on my smurf at least once.
I'm well aware of that, I've just gotten in the habit of using the hash mark to designate that it is, in fact, a channel that I'm referring to.
And I'm in there almost every day 
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aegis is fine, but not necessary anymore. triforce is too expensive, and only really worth considering if you invested in an early sheen anyway, but even then, you shouldn't consider it until you aready have 3 tanking items IMO. I hate chalice, but it's hard for me to talk about life before tier 3 Mp5pL runes, lol. my smurf bought full tier 1 Mp5pL glyphs and seals just so I wouldn't get thrown off of my typical investments in mana regen that much before it reaches level 20.
don't underestimate sunfires btw. you'd be surprised how frequently sunfires turn out to be straight up better investments than Veil/Thornmail even against the teams that seem to strongly suggest you should get more specialized tanking gear.
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On July 03 2010 03:52 Mogwai wrote:
wtf, no GP for raise moral on that rammus? or hell, even just a janna for the passive? that's amateur.
Yeh. what noobs. Zilean timewarp+ kayle heal+ GP+ janna. gg
Have zilean sit near the end of the path , too so e can timewarp whe nhes going the fastest gg
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Bearded Elder29905 Posts
Because chat is broken, that's why all the channels doesn't work T_T
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does the timing of the buffs actually matter? cuz I'm fairly certain it doesn't...
and for what it's worth
Zilean
Sivir
Kayle
Nunu
GP
Janna
is the order from biggest to smallest movement buffs. and it's better to have a ghostblade to turn on instead of one of the phantom dancers.
so yea, the best setup would be boots of mobility, 4 PDs, 1 Ghostblade, 0/9/21 setup, Movespeed quints on Rammus, powerball, nimbleness trigger, sivir ult, timewarp, divine blessing, bloodboil, and ghostblade active.
make it happen guiz.
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On July 03 2010 04:03 Mogwai wrote:
aegis is fine, but not necessary anymore. triforce is too expensive, and only really worth considering if you invested in an early sheen anyway, but even then, you shouldn't consider it until you aready have 3 tanking items IMO. I hate chalice, but it's hard for me to talk about life before tier 3 Mp5pL runes, lol. my smurf bought full tier 1 Mp5pL glyphs and seals just so I wouldn't get thrown off of my typical investments in mana regen that much before it reaches level 20.
don't underestimate sunfires btw. you'd be surprised how frequently sunfires turn out to be straight up better investments than Veil/Thornmail even against the teams that seem to strongly suggest you should get more specialized tanking gear.
Of the standard tanking gear what would you suggest to gun for first then? HoG early for the gold, then it seems gunning straight for omen would be a waste, since it synergises with high armour/resistance, and removes the free gold from HoG. so getting merc treads then into either sunfire or thorn/banshee
or even going for a frozen heart could work...
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I would say first get tier 1 Mp5pL seals and glyphs so that you ease your mana restrictions a bit. It'll set you back a couple hundred IP, but that's a pretty cheap investment and it'll encourage a better build from the get go and make the transition when you hit 20 a lot easier. Try this as your build:
cloth armor + 3 health pots or boots + 3 health pots
finish HoG + boots on first B
Aegis + Merc Treads
Sunfire Cape
Finish Omen
Guardian Angel
That's a pretty generic and flexible build, and none of the items will ever really be wasted. And if you eventually find yourself wanting to expand your horizons and go for an early sheen or diversify your tanking gear, you'll at least have a solid foundation to work with.
Frozen's too big an investment in Mana and CDR for Nasus. If you're feeling mana starved, I'd say just grab golem in most cases, as his CDs are already low enough, and Frozen's a really big investment.
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Omen isn't a very good standalone item anyways, as I mentioned before Warden's Mail is kind of a waste of money, and an upgraded Warden isn't really worth like 1500 gold. On Malphite and Amumu I tended to go HoG -> Sunfire, but I've noticed with Rammus Sunfire isn't so useful, and so I'd much rather use the 2410 for Sunfire on two more HoGs - you get almost the same HP and armor, at less cost with decent gold returns. With Nasus it'll depend on whether you think that 40 burning damage is worth it. I've not played him nearly enough to be able to tell you.
Aside from that tanking items depends on the game. Last night I played against a team with 5 attack damage players. You'd obviously NOT make Banshee in such a game, in fact pretty much my whole team immediately made Thornmail. Almost every tanking item serves a specific use, IMO, and isn't always going to be a fit. The most brainless (and relatively effect) thing to do is to stack Sunfires.
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the thing that makes omen really good on Nasus is that they kinda need to focus you anyway or you're going to tear them up all by yourself, so like, they have to put themselves in position to all eat your omen or just hang the guy your withered out to dry. and the warden's mail effect triggers a lot too because of all the attacks you eat.
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I swear, I will know the end of days is here whenever I get into a solo queue and win without having to carry my team myself.
LoL solo queue is the most frustrating thing I've ever seen, and it's purely masochistic to try to enjoy yourself using it. (in my experience)
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it blows at early ELO brackets, but it's not so bad when you get better. Just sucks when you get Henma and HwangJK and ManyReason and Trinital and... yea, nm, solo queue blows, lol
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the fact that people still talk about buying HoG's just baffles me
in my opinion it's the worst item in the game and stacking them is just roflpuke
the total cost (forgive me, i don't have my client open and the LoL website actually doesn't even have total costs -_-) is something like 475 + 300 + 200, or 975 gold. it offers a measly 200 health and 27 armor and gives you 5 gold per 10s, or 30 gold per minute. that's equal to 1 of the small golems. in terms of just getting back your money on the investment, you'll need 975/30 or 32:30 just to get the gold back for buying the HoG, and the only thing that it builds into is Randuin's, which is a marginal/situational item at best.
so in essence, you need to hold on to a *strictly* early-early-game item for 32 minutes before you can earn back the money you spent on it. that's severely gimping your ability to help your team (with say, an aegis, which will give your whole team the edge in an early teamfight).
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the straight armor and health efficiency on HoG is pretty high though. I dunno, I wouldn't stack them personally, but you can actually get pretty good mileage out of the fuckers.
and the idea is that tanks don't earn gold fast enough to really be strapped for item slots most of the time anyway, so it's not like stacking 2 extra HoGs over a Sunfire is gonna hurt you in terms of item slots until much later anyway, so if you don't care about the passive damage, they're a more efficient investment by a lot. And your math for fully paying them off is not counting the fact that you'll sell them back when they've outlived their usefullness, so in reality, it only takes like 10-12 minutes to earn back the difference I think.
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On July 03 2010 04 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 03 2010 04 end_of_the_skype_highlighting begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 03 2010 04 end_of_the_skype_highlighting begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 03 2010 04 end_of_the_skype_highlighting:53 gtrsrs wrote:
the fact that people still talk about buying HoG's just baffles me
in my opinion it's the worst item in the game and stacking them is just roflpuke
the total cost (forgive me, i don't have my client open and the LoL website actually doesn't even have total costs -_-) is something like 475 + 300 + 200, or 975 gold. it offers a measly 200 health and 27 armor and gives you 5 gold per 10s, or 30 gold per minute. that's equal to 1 of the small golems. in terms of just getting back your money on the investment, you'll need 975/30 or 32:30 just to get the gold back for buying the HoG, and the only thing that it builds into is Randuin's, which is a marginal/situational item at best.
so in essence, you need to hold on to a *strictly* early-early-game item for 32 minutes before you can earn back the money you spent on it. that's severely gimping your ability to help your team (with say, an aegis, which will give your whole team the edge in an early teamfight).
Remember that 200 hp is about 528 gold, and 27 armor about 450 gold. If those 2 stats are what you're looking for, Hearts of Gold are a really cost-efficient way of getting them. If you're planning on turning one into a Randuin's Omen later on, it's pretty much a non-brainer to get them.
They're really good for money per stats value, the gold per 5 is just a bonus. And it's a pretty large bonus if you ask me.
And you only need to hold onto it for 16 minutes, and since it'd be silly to sell a HoG before you don't have the slots to support it anymore, it'll easily last that long. About 3 is definitely the max though, but getting 2 is a good idea on almost any champion that could use the armor and the health.
EDIT: Oh I didn't notice it was the same clueless person who always has been wrong. Wouldn't have bothered replying if I had noticed.
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On July 03 2010 04:53 gtrsrs wrote:
the fact that people still talk about buying HoG's just baffles me
in my opinion it's the worst item in the game and stacking them is just roflpuke
On July 03 2010 04:31 Southlight wrote:
On Malphite and Amumu I tended to go HoG -> Sunfire, but I've noticed with Rammus Sunfire isn't so useful, and so I'd much rather use the 2410 for Sunfire on two more HoGs - you get almost the same HP and armor, at less cost with decent gold returns
And believe me when you only farm till level 4, and spend the rest of the game ganking and dying, the HoG bonus cost helps a ton. Considering that over 3 minutes you get enough money from one HoG to pay for one of the wards you bought...
Edit:
By the way the reason why jungling tanks often rush HoG is because you start off with Cloth Armor or Ruby anyways, and Aegis kinda sucks when it comes to items that use either Cloth and Ruby (as you really need the extra HP at the start). It's much more cost effective to get a HoG in the first 5 minutes (which usually happens), and considering you usually get around to bothering to complete Randuin like 30 minutes into a game you get a lot of mileage of that extra gold bonus. It really is cherry on top, though, because it's one of the most efficient items health and armor for cost. See my comparison of Sunfire vs HoG.
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that's a really good way to look at it... 45 armor, 450 health and 40 damage AoE aura or 54 armor, 400 health, ~500 gold less, and 2 wards/3 minutes. you better be getting a lot of mileage out of that 40 damage aura or need that extra item slot really badly for the first option to be better.
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On July 03 2010 05:08 Mogwai wrote:
that's a really good way to look at it... 45 armor, 450 health and 40 damage AoE aura or 54 armor, 400 health, ~500 gold less, and 2 wards/3 minutes. you better be getting a lot of mileage out of that 40 damage aura or need that extra item slot really badly for the first option to be better.
Yup.
With Malphite you end up needing the Sunfire to actually keep farming as the game goes on, and with Amumu it works well with Despair. On other tanks I'm not quite so sold as to the cost efficacy of Sunfire vs just making HoGs, as odd as that may seem.
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sooo anyone for a game on LoL US? I'm Shayuki, add please ~
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On July 03 2010 05:11 Southlight wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2010 05:08 Mogwai wrote:
that's a really good way to look at it... 45 armor, 450 health and 40 damage AoE aura or 54 armor, 400 health, ~500 gold less, and 2 wards/3 minutes. you better be getting a lot of mileage out of that 40 damage aura or need that extra item slot really badly for the first option to be better. Yup. With Malphite you end up needing the Sunfire to actually keep farming as the game goes on, and with Amumu it works well with Despair. On other tanks I'm not quite so sold as to the cost efficacy of Sunfire vs just making HoGs, as odd as that may seem.
it synergizes well with Nasus's ult too, and he farms fast enough to appreciate the extra item slot. sunfire on nasus is good.
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EPT
