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On October 15 2010 04:48 Southlight wrote:
How much HP is needed to make Atma's cost efficient?
ummm, depends how efficient you consider efficient enough :p
you gain no extra armor or crit chance for the recipe cost and they're the most efficient base items in those stats, so you can just straight compare the recipe cost to the damage. 825 = ~22 damage to be on the scale of BF Sword, which is only like 1100 HP. But of course you have to weigh just how important crit and armor are to you, but in most reasonable games, crit and armor are very nice end game and you get a very very healthy dose of AD off of impaler (typically some where around +1000 gold efficiency, even on carries pumping red elixir).
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On October 15 2010 04:48 Southlight wrote:
How much HP is needed to make Atma's cost efficient?
Basically none at all. If you value both the crit and armor you should have it cost efficient by level 10 or so. At lvl 18 you will usually have at least 2500 HP = 50 AD for 800 gold?
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Well the question is when armor/crit is secondary. With Twitch for instance (sitting pretty on like 2k on double blade) you're weighing a BF sword vs Atma's. At that point while the extra crit and armor is nice I also need to know if the pure AD from Atma's is going to be still there. For instance if I run Banshee I'll be sitting on like 2400 hp, but I desperately need an extra attack item. Atma's is nice but... would it be worth it? If 2500HP is 50AD, I'm not sure, although I guess it's comparable to a BF sword then.
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atma's is not an item to get quickly and that's all there really is to it. it's a dead end item that is at optimal efficiency when your character is highly leveled and pumping red elixirs and/or has +HP items. If you're considering it post 2 dblade, you're thinking about the item wrong because at that point, it's much better to set up for your infinity edge.
EDIT: ignoring this issue I have with your question, I think it's fair to say that we can at least consider the gold spent on Agi Cloak worthwhile. Meaning we need to be able to justify 1525 gold on the scale of a BF Sword, which is ~41 AD = ~2050 HP.
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GG folks, ^.^;
Galio/Morde = unpushable tower hehe
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Atmas is getting changed next patch according to the test realm notes that were leaked.
They are replacing the crit component with HP, so I wouldn't bother theorycrafting over its current iteration.
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new version looked pretty underwhelming IMO. I mean, it's certainly more geared to what they want it to be (a way for a tank to get substantial AD), but it ruins my default veil + omen + atma's build on everyone 
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Imo its not that bad, wont affect ur panth 
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There has been so many patches lately with no release notes. What have they been doing?
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On October 15 2010 05:33 Iplaythings wrote:Imo its not that bad, wont affect ur panth
actually I remembered it wrong because I missed the cost change. I thought they kept the cost kinda high, but it's actually down at < 2K, which makes it really good. carry on.
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On October 15 2010 05:44 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 05:33 Iplaythings wrote:Imo its not that bad, wont affect ur panth actually I remembered it wrong because I missed the cost change. I thought they kept the cost kinda high, but it's actually down at < 2K, which makes it really good. carry on.
If you only care about the AD you're only gonna need 2488 HP before buying Atma's to break even, but if you care about the armor (and really you should if you want to buy Atma's), that goes down to 1542 pre-atmas!
I think every hero has that base?
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the health doesn't just count towards your AD either, so there's some extra value you're ignoring there.
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On October 15 2010 05:51 Mogwai wrote:
the health doesn't just count towards your AD either, so there's some extra value you're ignoring there.
Honestly when you get down to it if you have 4 digit HP atma's is still going to be a combined efficient item.
atma's before bf sword imo!
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but atmas doesnt build into anything... on some ppl it would be ok be4 bf items tho
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bf items are overrated on things that aren't ranged carries.
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Side topic: aside from ranged carries, who isn't Spirit Visage awesome for?
on Atma's: If you want a Chain Mail at any point in the game, I think Atma's is probably better than a BF sword item past the first, and might even be better than the first BF against some comps.
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is awesome32282 Posts
Runes for kennen?
I don't feel i run out of energy. Except maybe a couple of instances where i need to get out after ulting, but i usually Zonyas there to wait for energy/confuse the other team.
MPen Quints/reds, AP blues, ??? yellows
?
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On October 15 2010 05:59 Mogwai wrote:
bf items are overrated on things that aren't ranged carries.
Agreed.
Atmas before BF sword will work quite nicely on quite a few people since its newer version will give more survivability while still being comparable to the BF sword's damage output.
Might be more useful on malphite since he gains additional benefits from both health and armor and he could use a decent damage increase late game, might become less of an R-bot at that point.
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On October 15 2010 06:10 IntoTheWow wrote:
Runes for kennen?
I don't feel i run out of energy. Except maybe a couple of instances where i need to get out after ulting, but i usually Zonyas there to wait for energy/confuse the other team.
MPen Quints/reds, AP blues, ??? yellows
?
I run MS quints MPen reds flat armor yellows and MRes/lvl blues - He likes to get close to people and needs some decent survivability, the MS quints make sure you're fast enough to keep the important people inside your ult and help with positioning and escaping
On October 15 2010 06:07 Niton wrote:
Side topic: aside from ranged carries, who isn't Spirit Visage awesome for?
on Atma's: If you want a Chain Mail at any point in the game, I think Atma's is probably better than a BF sword item past the first, and might even be better than the first BF against some comps.
Everyone.
Moreover, I've been trying to convince my friend to rush zhonya's then SV on Swain and get mejais then straight tank items and initiate -> cleanse -> Z-Ring -> at full health again in teamfights, I played around with that during all champs free weekend and it was amazingly effective because you eat so much of everything when running in there that healing back to full then coming out with everything off cooldown is crazy.
And if they don't try to CC you immediately, then you root their carry and obliterate it.
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EPT
