EPT... What a classless asshole.
NBA Playoffs 2010 - Page 186
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Butigroove
Seychelles2061 Posts
... What a classless asshole. | ||
NonY
8751 Posts
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UnitarySpace
United States61 Posts
On June 19 2010 01:25 Butigroove wrote: Did Kobe really say that what this championship meant to him was having 1 more than Shaq? ... What a classless asshole. uh.. no | ||
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city42
1656 Posts
On June 19 2010 00:33 Xeris wrote: He's in the top 10 IMO, but possibly he's referring to top 3 guards, in which case I think you could say Kobe is up there. But obviously he's not better than Russell, Kareem, etc. If he means top 3 guards, then I 100% agree. It's definitely MJ, Magic, and Kobe, with West and Oscar rounding out the top 5. This was Kobe's best year ever, he was genuinely hurt and still played fantastic. Even the biggest Kobe anti-fan has to respect his 2009-2010 campaign. On June 19 2010 01:27 Liquid`NonY wrote: have you guys watched film of these old players? wondering how you guys have opinions on them when they played before you were born :o stats are obviously useless for comparison I have a decent amount of games on DVD, probably 1500 or so. It really depends on which "old player" you're talking about. It's very hard to get anything pre-1975, but every MJ playoff game (except his first ever one) is easy to get/watch. | ||
XaI)CyRiC
United States4471 Posts
I think there's a definite chance at a three-peat since it's unlikely BOS will be the same team next year with Doc and/or Ray possibly not returning, and Sheed, Pierce and KG just getting older. ORL is good, but I actually think the Turkoglu version of the team was better because of the mismatch problems he caused, the way he fit perfectly alongside Howard, and because Carter has shown himself to not be someone you can depend on when the going gets tough at this point in his career. Say what you want about Turk, but his playmaking ability and clutch shooting were a large part of what got ORL to the Finals last year. It remains to be seen what Lebron does, but I get the feeling that staying in CLE is very unlikely. We could see an instant contender pop up if some of the big free agents decide to join each other on one team, but they'd still need to find the right support cast and fit each other as well as KG, Pierce and Ray did. For the Celtics' case, I hope Rondo spends all summer improving his perimeter shot and FT shooting. His inability to score despite the Lakers giving him five feet of space hurt his team a lot. If he can develop a decent shot like Parker did, he'll make himself impossible to guard and so much more valuable to his team. It'll be interesting to see what the Lakers do this offseason. The PG spot was a major weakness for most of the season, and arguably throughout the playoffs as well except for Fisher's clutch play, so they may attempt to improve at that spot. Fisher's just going to get older, Farmar has shown himself to be undependable and not be their PG of the future, and Shannon's poor handle and passing make him unsuitable for the PG position. I don't see the Lakers making Farmar a qualifying offer at this point, which means he may walk this summer. AMo is the other restricted FA, and it's a no-brainer that the Lakers let him walk (nice deal for him though, two rings for nothing). I'm guessing Shannon exercises his player option and stays with the Lakers, unless some other team makes him a good offer. No idea about Powell or Mbenga. That leaves Kobe, Pau, Odom, Artest, Bynum, Sasha and Luke as the players definitely coming back (unless traded). I think the Lakers will re-sign Fisher to a minimal salary, and I think Fisher takes it. I feel like that's a pretty good roster to build around, with the only needs being at the PG spot (backup or PG of the future depending on what's available) and some backup bigs if Powell and Mbenga don't come back. No reason to doubt another championship run with the West likely not looking that different next year. Spurs and Suns will only be older, Jazz still can't beat the Lakers, and the Thunder are scary but still too young. The only real threats I see are the Nuggets (who will hopefully have a healthy Karl all year) and Blazers if everyone can finally stay healthy. The Mavs could be scary with more time for Butler and Haywood to get familiar with the team, but Kidd will be downright ancient by then. I'm kind of excited to see what HOU can do with Yao back and maybe another FA acquisition. | ||
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Fake)Plants
United States373 Posts
On June 18 2010 19:18 Smigi wrote: 16 Rebounds? 4 of Them Offensive. Thats sick imo.) What really impressed me with Kobe was this stat. The boards were a huge factor in who would win each game leading up to game 7. While he didn't look like a Jordan or whatever offensively, his impact was still gigantic defensively, which is huge considering the defensive intensity during game 7. Kobe definitely deserved that MVP at the end there. Great series. | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On June 19 2010 01:33 city42 wrote: I have a decent amount of games on DVD, probably 1500 or so. It really depends on which "old player" you're talking about. It's very hard to get anything pre-1975, but every MJ playoff game (except his first ever one) is easy to get/watch. woah you must be a sick bball fan | ||
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Smigi
United States328 Posts
On June 19 2010 01:25 Butigroove wrote: Did Kobe really say that what this championship meant to him was having 1 more than Shaq? ... What a classless asshole. When Shaq won a championship with Miami, he was asked how he was feeling, and he said "one more then kobe bryant". Thats why Kobe said it. and thats why he said "I Don't Forget" after he said it. | ||
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Kiarip
United States1835 Posts
On June 18 2010 14:27 city42 wrote: Trashed by the Pistons? Have you ever seen the 4 CHI-DET series? 1989 and 1990 were some of the closest and fiercely competitive series ever. Magic Johnson wasn't a hyper-dominant player in 1991 (first team all-NBA, best playoff effort since 1987)? '96 Sonics were a "weaker" defensive team?! They were by FAR the best defensive team he faced in the finals. My head nearly exploded reading all the garbage in here. The Kobe-Jordan comparisons are nonsense to begin with, so you need to bring some actual facts into the mix to form an argument on the issue. Didn't say it wasn't close, but the Pistons beat them consistently in the playoffs. Magic Johnson was definitely on his way out, and the Bulls had great match ups on the Lakers. Learn to read before you reply. I said that the Sonics were a very good defensive team (and MJ didn't shoot amazingly well against them at all, although he played fine overall. The Jazz teams that he won his other 2 championships of the second three-peat were weak defensive teams. Stop putting words in my mouth, thanks. | ||
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Smigi
United States328 Posts
On June 18 2010 15:39 hasuprotoss wrote: Russell won ELEVEN championships. Kareem was a 19-time NBA all-star, leads the leauge in points all-time, he also had 6 MVPs. Oscar Robertson averaged a triple double over a SEASON. Kobe's first 3 championships came on the back of Shaq (sure he was a great player, but Shaq was easily the best player on those teams). I hate when people say "Kobe was on the back of Shaq with the three championships". Dude, Kobe averaged this on all 3 seasons of the championships: 99-00 : 22.5 00-01 : 28.5 01-02 : 25.2 I'm not saying Kobe was more important, Shaq was obviously the most dominant player in the game then and the biggest key player by far of those championships, but god damn man, Kobe was young and he was doing phenomenal work and played a rather large part in those championships. Shaq didn't knock on Kobes door every year and hand him a ring, Kobe worked/played his ass off between the ages of 21-23 to win them. People make it seem like Shaq average 60 points a night and Kobe sat on the bench sipping a pina colada. | ||
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city42
1656 Posts
On June 19 2010 05:01 Kiarip wrote: Didn't say it wasn't close, but the Pistons beat them consistently in the playoffs. Magic Johnson was definitely on his way out, and the Bulls had great match ups on the Lakers. Learn to read before you reply. I said that the Sonics were a very good defensive team (and MJ didn't shoot amazingly well against them at all, although he played fine overall. The Jazz teams that he won his other 2 championships of the second three-peat were weak defensive teams. Stop putting words in my mouth, thanks. You said he was "trashed" by the Pistons. I think you should hop over to dictionary.com before using a word you don't understand, if you truly understand that the series were close. Magic was on his way out? Are you just going to say that without any evidence to back it up? His numbers hadn't taken a drop at all. Second in the MVP voting, first team all-NBA, led the Lakers past the Blazers who had the best record in the NBA. The Lakers were ravaged by injury in the '91 finals, otherwise it would have been a 6-7 game series without question. Magic was absolutely not slipping at all. Also, if we're being super-technical here, Hakeem wasn't even relevant during Jordan's prime ('88-'92), so it's hard to qualify him as hyper-dominant. He was stuck on horrible teams and had huge attitude issues, very nearly getting traded. I just re-read the entire post I replied to, and there isn't even a mention of the Sonics directly...there was only the "considerably weaker defensive teams" line. Also, the Jazz were a good defensive team. Those years were skewed because Pat Riley ruined the league and every team decided to play brutal, physical games which resulted in very low scoring. Utah wasn't in Seattle's class on the defensive end, but they weren't exactly the '90 Nuggets. | ||
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NonY
8751 Posts
On June 19 2010 01:33 city42 wrote: If he means top 3 guards, then I 100% agree. It's definitely MJ, Magic, and Kobe, with West and Oscar rounding out the top 5. This was Kobe's best year ever, he was genuinely hurt and still played fantastic. Even the biggest Kobe anti-fan has to respect his 2009-2010 campaign. I have a decent amount of games on DVD, probably 1500 or so. It really depends on which "old player" you're talking about. It's very hard to get anything pre-1975, but every MJ playoff game (except his first ever one) is easy to get/watch. that's awesome. i need to watch some jordan. i remember watching a few games live but i was pretty young. can you recommend some series? | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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OneOther
United States10774 Posts
On June 18 2010 21:48 city42 wrote: Did you take a national poll or something? I don't know anyone who would even put Kobe in the top 5, let alone the top 3. I find it extremely hard to believe that most people put him that high, unless by "people" you mean "blind Laker fans." Eh, by people I meant the 57,000 people who voted on ESPN's all-time great ranking. I don't know how many of them are "blind Laker fans." I agree at this point Kobe may not be top three all-time great list (he's getting damn close and may even be top five already in my eyes), but I am certain he will undoubtedly be top three by the end of his career. Majority of people put Magic ahead of Kobe as the greatest Laker ever, but it's becoming a more and more legitimate contention now. Kobe needs another campaign similar to this year's to take over Magic though. Some analysts and apparently a lot of people think Kobe is already the greatest Laker but it's too premature. I will go ahead and dare to say that he is the second greatest Laker right now though. Here are the polls I am talking about: http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/rank?versionId=4&listId=293#topOfList http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/polls Some Kobe vs Magic articles: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2010/columns/story?columnist=broussard_chris&page=kobe-100618 http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/oregonian/john_canzano/index.ssf/2010/06/canzano_kobe_bryants_performan.html | ||
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OneOther
United States10774 Posts
On June 19 2010 06:31 Ace wrote: Jordan vs New York Knicks. I think that was the epitome of bloodthirsty will to win. Yeah, seconded. Great series and a great performance by an outrageously fierce competitor. | ||
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city42
1656 Posts
On June 19 2010 06:22 Liquid`NonY wrote: that's awesome. i need to watch some jordan. i remember watching a few games live but i was pretty young. can you recommend some series? Sure thing. The very early series are basically just him going 1on5 at much better teams, so I wouldn't recommend them. In the 1988 series against the Cavs, he went for 50 back to back in games 1 and 2, so that's the most watchable out of the group. The first great game is 1989 game 5 vs. Cleveland. It's best known for "The Shot" at the very end, but the whole second half is great. Jordan only had 6 at halftime, but put up 38 or 40 in the second. The series against Detroit in 1989 and 1990 were excellent. Like Ace said, the best of Jordan can be seen in the series against the Knicks. The best one of all was the 1992 east semifinals. I don't really know how to describe it in words. Pat Riley took a mediocre NY team and turned them into a pack of hungry pitbulls, far worse than the Bad Boys. Pippen was at his peak and Jordan was looking to repeat, so Chicago didn't back down at all. The 1993 series was pretty good too, until Charles Smith screwed it up. As far as finals go, the best one was 1993. Phoenix was loaded, and actually had home court in the series. Game 3 is one hell of a fight as well, it was sort of like game 7 last night. The worst is 1992. It gets old watching the super-talented Blazers shoot themselves in the foot over and over. I'm not a fan of the later series ('96-'98) because the game had become TOO physical. With that being said, the 1998 east final against Indiana was a classic. | ||
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city42
1656 Posts
On June 19 2010 06:52 OneOther wrote: Eh, by people I meant the 57,000 people who voted on ESPN's all-time great ranking. I don't know how many of them are "blind Laker fans." I agree at this point Kobe may not be top three all-time great list (he's getting damn close and may even be top five already in my eyes), but I am certain he will undoubtedly be top three by the end of his career. Majority of people put Magic ahead of Kobe as the greatest Laker ever, but it's becoming a more and more legitimate contention now. Kobe needs another campaign similar to this year's to take over Magic though. Some analysts and apparently a lot of people think Kobe is already the greatest Laker but it's too premature. I will go ahead and dare to say that he is the second greatest Laker right now though. Here are the polls I am talking about: http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/rank?versionId=4&listId=293#topOfList http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/polls Some Kobe vs Magic articles: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2010/columns/story?columnist=broussard_chris&page=kobe-100618 http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/oregonian/john_canzano/index.ssf/2010/06/canzano_kobe_bryants_performan.html That's one crazy poll. Dr. J over Shaq, Duncan, Hakeem, and Moses? It's nearly impossible to rank Magic and Kobe in the all-time Laker list, but I think they're comfortably at #1 and #2 now in some order. The problem with putting Kobe in the top 3 all time is that you're bumping someone with more rings to make room for him. He's in the top 10 I'd say, and I don't even want to think about the top 5 argument. It was hard enough to rank the top 10 before Kobe. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
As an aside I think people HAVE to give Kobe a nod soon and admit he is going to be top 5 eventually. To lose to the 2008 Celtics, win in 2009 and then avenge the loss in 2010 speaks volumes. Also considering the level of defense that both of these Celtics teams put out (elite levels in all playoff rankings) and you've got one hell of an accomplishment. Kobe is the only one who can say he survived them in a playoffs where they took out 3 of the other top 5 players in the league (Wade, Lebron and Dwight). | ||
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Servolisk
United States5241 Posts
On June 19 2010 02:25 XaI)CyRiC wrote: I'm just hoping Kobe finally gets the surgery he needs to fix that finger. His handle was affected all season long, and he's only getting older. I think there's a definite chance at a three-peat since it's unlikely BOS will be the same team next year with Doc and/or Ray possibly not returning, I doubt it. This year it could have gone either way, and if some other east team like cleveland and possibly orlando made it they could have won too. Then there are the free agents who are going to create 2 new contenders. Maybe LAL won't be the best LA team if Lebron goes to the clippers and Blake Griffin is healthy and they sign someone else ^_^ I am sure Wade is going to get Bosh or Stoudemire and other free agents. It would be sweet if they had Wade+Stoudemire+Ray Allen... perfect combo :O BTW for the Lebron/Kobe/Wade comparisons, you could compare how they all did vs. Boston and come up with this ranking: 1. Wade 2. Kobe 3. Lebron Miami is definitely going to build a contender around Wade this year, and there will be a lot of new up and coming teams with cap space like chicago and OKC which lower the odds for the older teams to continue success. Picking Wade as finals MVP now  Maybe absurdly premature, but no more than predicting a 3 peat :p | ||
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Servolisk
United States5241 Posts
On June 19 2010 07:53 Ace wrote: Kobe is the only one who can say he survived them in a playoffs where they took out 3 of the other top 5 players in the league (Wade, Lebron and Dwight). Yeah, but Wade personally played 10x better than Kobe did playing the same role. No point in crediting Kobe for taking them out and saying Wade can't when Kobe's teammates are ridiculously better than Wade's :p | ||
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