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Cerumo
Profile Joined December 2009
United States40 Posts
February 28 2010 00:23 GMT
#1441
So I just started playing this game a day or two ago, having a blast atm with my roommate (both level 7). I've been looking for a good hero, I bought trist and she dosent rely seem to fit my style. I've played around with nunu and I like him but I hate not being ranged. Any suggestions for a good ranged hero that is good at setting up/finishing off ganks?
Iwinulose
Maero
Profile Joined December 2007
349 Posts
February 28 2010 00:29 GMT
#1442
You really can't go wrong with Annie right now, she's very versatile, and can initiate with her stuns.

Ashe is cheap and also a pretty decent bet, I've seen her arrow start team fights/ganks more times than I can count.
oob
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Sweden630 Posts
February 28 2010 00:58 GMT
#1443
Annie is pretty darn awesome to gank with once you get Tibbers and have your stun :O
Happiest man on earth
ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
February 28 2010 01:21 GMT
#1444
Annie is also very, very fragile and will die to 90% of the characters who you stand near. I suggest trying out a fat, tanky, person like Blitzcrank.
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
The-Dom
Profile Joined February 2010
United States165 Posts
February 28 2010 01:26 GMT
#1445
Played dota for 5 years, played the beta for this, just started up the regular game after reinstalling. I'm lvl 13 atm
Summoner name: Colossus
Mazer
Profile Joined April 2008
Canada1086 Posts
February 28 2010 01:27 GMT
#1446
I'd suggest Nasus for beginners too. Very versatile and easy to learn.
StorkHwaiting
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States3465 Posts
February 28 2010 02:18 GMT
#1447
On February 28 2010 10:21 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Annie is also very, very fragile and will die to 90% of the characters who you stand near. I suggest trying out a fat, tanky, person like Blitzcrank.


Really? o_0. My annie is usually hard to kill compared to the other nuker heroes. A lot of stun/nuke, a scary pet, an armor/resist shield, and a lot of hp when you get rod/rylais usually means an Annie that hardly ever dies.
ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
February 28 2010 02:53 GMT
#1448
On February 28 2010 11:18 StorkHwaiting wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 28 2010 10:21 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Annie is also very, very fragile and will die to 90% of the characters who you stand near. I suggest trying out a fat, tanky, person like Blitzcrank.


Really? o_0. My annie is usually hard to kill compared to the other nuker heroes. A lot of stun/nuke, a scary pet, an armor/resist shield, and a lot of hp when you get rod/rylais usually means an Annie that hardly ever dies.

Not you Xiao, I was talking about the level 5 :D.
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
StorkHwaiting
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States3465 Posts
February 28 2010 05:50 GMT
#1449
On February 28 2010 11:53 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 28 2010 11:18 StorkHwaiting wrote:
On February 28 2010 10:21 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Annie is also very, very fragile and will die to 90% of the characters who you stand near. I suggest trying out a fat, tanky, person like Blitzcrank.


Really? o_0. My annie is usually hard to kill compared to the other nuker heroes. A lot of stun/nuke, a scary pet, an armor/resist shield, and a lot of hp when you get rod/rylais usually means an Annie that hardly ever dies.

Not you Xiao, I was talking about the level 5 :D.


Haha oh ok XD. We need to get another game together sometime! :D Not enough feast rape going on in my games...
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-28 05:58:57
February 28 2010 05:58 GMT
#1450
On February 28 2010 11:18 StorkHwaiting wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 28 2010 10:21 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Annie is also very, very fragile and will die to 90% of the characters who you stand near. I suggest trying out a fat, tanky, person like Blitzcrank.


Really? o_0. My annie is usually hard to kill compared to the other nuker heroes. A lot of stun/nuke, a scary pet, an armor/resist shield, and a lot of hp when you get rod/rylais usually means an Annie that hardly ever dies.

How do you build Annie?

I've seen either Annies that never die, or die when they get sneezed on*. I'm curious as to what balance of survivability and nuking power you use.

*of course lots of the time, this comes from them sucking in the early game
Moderator
Southlight
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States11768 Posts
February 28 2010 06:19 GMT
#1451
Annie just has trouble dying because she can feasibly stun multiple times in a protracted fight (ie. every 10 seconds), but in a teamfight obviously if you're in an open position and the enemy slams you as hard as possible, then you'll die relatively quickly, no matter what. That's inescapable though. I was playing a game with Nasus tonight and had 200/200 Armor/MR with 3k hp and I still died in about 2-4 seconds, right through my ult.

Annies that die often are either mis-using (or worse, missing altogether) their stuns, or aren't positioning themselves right. Is the way I'd look at it.

In other words...

If you suck, Annie's squishy.
If you don't, Annie doesn't die very easily.
oraoraoraoraoraoraoraora
StorkHwaiting
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States3465 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-28 06:41:44
February 28 2010 06:34 GMT
#1452
On February 28 2010 14:58 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 28 2010 11:18 StorkHwaiting wrote:
On February 28 2010 10:21 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Annie is also very, very fragile and will die to 90% of the characters who you stand near. I suggest trying out a fat, tanky, person like Blitzcrank.


Really? o_0. My annie is usually hard to kill compared to the other nuker heroes. A lot of stun/nuke, a scary pet, an armor/resist shield, and a lot of hp when you get rod/rylais usually means an Annie that hardly ever dies.

How do you build Annie?

I've seen either Annies that never die, or die when they get sneezed on*. I'm curious as to what balance of survivability and nuking power you use.

*of course lots of the time, this comes from them sucking in the early game


I usually go blue crystal -> boots -> catalyst. After that, it's a tossup between rod of ages or mejai. If I'm ganking well then I go straight into Mejai. If I'm not ganking well then I go into rod of ages.

Basically it's:

Catalyst -> boots -> (mejai or rod) -> merc treads -> (mejai or rod, whichever one you didn't get) -> void staff -> rylai's (or Zhonya if playing really well) -> Zhonya if you got rylai first.

I'm really not a fan of archangel staff. It takes too much away from the real AP/magic pen items and Annie needs to keep her dmg high enough to devastate the other team at all times. Archangel just slows both the HP and dmg too much to be worth the mana regen. Get golem if Annie's running out of mana. With rod of ages to take care of early game mana, and Zhonya's to take care of late game mana, Annie really shouldn't have major problems with regen. Get the utility mastery mana regen stuff if you're finding it a major problem. Mana regen runes and magic pen runes for rune page.

Health-wise, her molten shield is an awesome armor buff so I'm not a big fan of guardian angel or anything nutty like that on Annie. She really can't afford to give up an item slot other than merc treads to pay for tankiness. Rod of ages HP should keep her alive in the early and mid game. And then Rylai's should take care of her in the late game.

In general though, Annie should be getting a ton of AP from her Mejai's, rushing void staff right after for the magic pen to really close out a game, and if it somehow goes to late game, rylai and zhonya are going to make Annie very annoying to deal with.

Edit: A further adaptive build if you're super raping is to go catalyst -> boots -> mejai -> sorc boots -> guise -> Zhonya. But that's a little too squishy in the mid game and depends on being so ridiculously fed that you can almost one shot any hero you encounter, hence never taking any damage. The guise is there to give you a quicker, cheaper spell pen and some health/mana regen so you don't have to go back to base. This build is usually to keep people down when you're far ahead, because once an Annie is fed, people start running for the negatron cloaks. A fast guise/sorc boots counters that completely, and allows Annie to rape them just as hard while their farm has been dumped into an item that gives them zero additional offense.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-28 07:51:49
February 28 2010 07:46 GMT
#1453
On February 28 2010 15:34 StorkHwaiting wrote:
Catalyst -> boots -> (mejai or rod) -> merc treads -> (mejai or rod, whichever one you didn't get) -> void staff -> rylai's (or Zhonya if playing really well) -> Zhonya if you got rylai first.

Ok, that looks reasonably close to what I've been playing. I end up skipping Mejai's sometimes because I'm bad and play premades with people that are way better than me lol.

Couple questions:
1) I like to try and fit in Deathfire Grasp against tankier comps, but I'm not sure when I should get it. Is this a good idea at all, and if so, where would you advise putting it?

2) Where would you fit Veil in against teams you might need it against? Occasionally I use Abyssal instead of Void against teams I'd need MR against. Is this a better or worse option?

3) What's your opinion on Frozen Heart? A friend told me to give it a try, but I'm not sure what to feel about it.
Moderator
Jawa~
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
United States291 Posts
February 28 2010 07:56 GMT
#1454
On February 28 2010 16:46 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 28 2010 15:34 StorkHwaiting wrote:
Catalyst -> boots -> (mejai or rod) -> merc treads -> (mejai or rod, whichever one you didn't get) -> void staff -> rylai's (or Zhonya if playing really well) -> Zhonya if you got rylai first.

Ok, that looks reasonably close to what I've been playing. I end up skipping Mejai's sometimes because I'm bad and play premades with people that are way better than me lol.

Couple questions:
1) I like to try and fit in Deathfire Grasp against tankier comps, but I'm not sure when I should get it. Is this a good idea at all, and if so, where would you advise putting it?

2) Where would you fit Veil in against teams you might need it against?

3) What's your opinion on Frozen Heart? A friend told me to give it a try, but I'm not sure what to feel about it.


I build a lot like Stork - I have most games with annie and a good (close to 2:1) ratio...

I build mana gem > catalyst > boots > mejai > RoA > rylai/zhonya -- now that void staff doesn't have mana involved I may start using it, esp. since everyone and their mom seems to be getting merc treads every game.

I'll try to answer a few of your questions on her

1) Deathfire is not worth the money on Annie - she can do plenty damage without it, and tanks are not who you're going to be targeting anyway.

2) Veil would usually be after rylai's if it's an AP heavy opposing team. Pretty late, but you can survive with the HP well enough until you get it. If you're really getting fucked up or starved for kills, you could go for it after RoA, or even skip RoA and go for void staff, then turn your catalyst into veil

3) Frozen Heart is a horrible Annie item. It's not good on many characters, but it's just horrible on Annie. No AP, Mana (which you don't need), Armor (don't need), and while the debuff is good, you're not exactly going to be in the middle of the fray debuffing everyone. Don't get it

The secret to Annie is farming very well early game. If you're solo mid you should be aiming for around 4 creeps per wave. At level 6 you can almost always get a kill with flash/tibber stun/nuke/ignite, and then you'll usually have ~1300 (I get Mejais at this point if I'm low on HP and need to go back)

Have fun! She's my favorite caster (and probably the best right now)
Dr.Kill-Joy
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States627 Posts
February 28 2010 08:09 GMT
#1455
When in the Hell will Ladder be released...
About To Ass Rape That Face Wit Some Words
StorkHwaiting
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States3465 Posts
February 28 2010 08:26 GMT
#1456
Yeah I agree pretty much with what Jawa said.

Deathfire isn't worth it on Annie. It costs a lot of money and Annie's spells all have very low cooldowns. Just not worth it in my opinion. The bulk of your early game AP should come from Mejais. Gold needs to be poured into magic pen and hp for efficiency/survivability.

On veil... I would not get it. Molten shield gives armor/resist and that should be plenty with a good HP pool. Annie's a caster herself, so she shouldn't really be getting hit by nukes. The tanks are up front stunning people and soaking damage. Annie should be coming in behind them with bear/wave/fireball then running away again. She doesn't do any real autoattack damage and her spells all cast quickly so there just shouldn't be a reason for her to get hit by nukes unless the tankers aren't doing their job.

And then if you put THAT much money into an item that gives only some HP and resist, your offense is going to be hurting badly. With a nuker, it's better to do more damage rather than try to be an off-tank.

Although, if you're having a very bad game, I think the best solution is to stack double rods and then get abyssal. You'll still do a very respectable damage, have good hp and mana, and you can farm the pieces in small 850g increments. In the early-mid game, your molten shield should be giving enough armor/resist that a bigger hp pool is going to keep you alive more than a negatron cloak is.

And yeah, frozen heart is so bad on annie lol. Would almost guarantee she's useless other than tibbers stun.


TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
February 28 2010 08:41 GMT
#1457
Thanks!

And yeah, I have no idea why Frozen Heart was suggested to me, now that I think about it lol.
Moderator
Southlight
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States11768 Posts
February 28 2010 09:22 GMT
#1458
Probably someone trying to abuse your strong farming power to suit their own needs... How nefarious. Off with his head!
oraoraoraoraoraoraoraora
StorkHwaiting
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States3465 Posts
February 28 2010 10:30 GMT
#1459
Zerg_Rus, I just won a game with that AP sivir on my team...
Sentenal
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States12398 Posts
February 28 2010 10:37 GMT
#1460
Did you guys know that they took out Chogath's "NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM" joke? I was so pissed off when I wasn't able to do that joke. Shadow nerfing Feast on top of removing the best joke in the game almost makes me not want to play Cho anymore.
"Apparently, Sentenal is a paragon of friendship and tolerance. " - Ech0ne
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